Lebron calls Phil Jackson racist for calling his entourage "his posse"

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

Because it is reasonable to believe that the comment would not have been made, absent of race. The most well-meaning and good-intentioned white people make comments to and about black people that have racial overtones. You can ask any black person in college right now about that white professor who doesn't have to dislike black people or be a racist, but will comment on how "well you speak" as a black student, or compliment your strong command of the English language. They would not say that shit to white people and it's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. I choose to correct white people in the company of me about the coded language they frequently use. It would sit on my mind if I opted not to. Me choosing to speak up about that is between me and my conscience and what they choose to do with that is between them and theirs. Lebron didn't inject race into the conversation. He only pointed out that it was obviously already there.

 

[blackrain]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

@obnoxiouslyfresh and I gave you 4 separate examples of terms that are not inherently racist and you ignored both of us. Acknowledge that first.

You gave examples of words that are black slang and inextricably tied to black people. Had he used those words in a condescending manner, you might have a point that he introduced a racial element. As I've already stated more than once, and as others have already proven in this very topic, posse is not a word in that vein. It has no racial connotations at all. I mean for real man, if you can't see the difference between the subtext carried with homeboy and with posse, I don't know what to tell you.

Bruh he also said LeBron posse is there to fetch his cars and women...but that's not condescending?

 

[the dukester]

Let's be honest. LeBron James is a diva.

If he thinks the word posse is a racist term, it speaks volumes about his tone-deaf elitism.

Images of Patrick Ewing sweating profusely at the free-throw line, & being called "monkey-man" by commentators is racist. Allen Iverson being called a "spider monkey" by commentator Billy Packer, is racist.

The word posse doesn't come close.

After following his massas orders staying silent on Tamir Rice, and campaigning for crooked Hillary; We finally see LeBron for what he truly is........

A spoiled NBA brat, who could give 2 fucks about the black community, an only concerned about his "brand."

LeBron doesn't have to "Black" the way you want him to.

Wearing a fucking t-shirt makes him Malcolm X now?

Black folks have a love affair with this kind of symbolic bullshit.

What kind of financial risks did he take? Did he use the t-shirt as an opportunity to address police brutality like Kaepernick?

None & nope.

He doesn't have 1/5 of testicular fortitude as the man from Frisco.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

@obnoxiouslyfresh and I gave you 4 separate examples of terms that are not inherently racist and you ignored both of us. Acknowledge that first.

You gave examples of words that are black slang and inextricably tied to black people. Had he used those words in a condescending manner, you might have a point that he introduced a racial element. As I've already stated more than once, and as others have already proven in this very topic, posse is not a word in that vein. It has no racial connotations at all. I mean for real man, if you can't see the difference between the subtext carried with homeboy and with posse, I don't know what to tell you.

So ape, baby mama, homeboy, and thug are inextricably tied to black people? The fact that you believe that to be true says more about you than it does about LeBron or Phil for that matter.

There's a ton of words that have no inherent racist element until you apply it that way: suspicious, super predator, welfare user, boy, gang, etc. You can say that shit about anyone but when you use it in reference to certain people, invokes a certain idea and you'd be socially deaf to not acknowledge it.

I didn't see ape, but we do know historically that ape is tied to blacks as a racist insult. That's why that woman was forced to resign because she called Michelle Obama an ape. There are racial undertones there. Are you seriously going to deny that as much as people on this board whine about racists referring to blacks as monkeys or apes? Homeboy is most certainly terminology that originated with blacks. The concept of the unmarried mother of a man's child is not tied to blacks, but again the term "baby mama" came from blacks. Lastly, thug is not a black word originally, but it is one that has been embraced by aspects of black culture, most notably hip hop, and has most certainly been used by racists as code for black male. Are you really going deny any of that? Because if you're at the point where you feel the need to ignore reality just to take a petty little shot at my character, we just need to end this discussion because it will serve no purpose.

And yes, non-racist words can be used to promote racism depending on the way those words are used. Please tell me where in Phil's comment was there some obvious clue that he was using the word in a racially disparaging way. Man, ya'll Lebron defenders need to have a meeting and get your story straight. Half of ya'll are arguing that it was the media that injected race into this and not Lebron and his followers and the other half of ya'll are claiming that Phil used a non racially charged word to make a racial attack on Lebron despite the fact that there are no other racial indicators in the statement. Which is it?

 

[Lefty_]

Lebron certified on the black plight front, fuck what ya'll niggas talkin bout.

 

[ghostdog56]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

Because it is reasonable to believe that the comment would not have been made, absent of race. The most well-meaning and good-intentioned white people make comments to and about black people that have racial overtones. You can ask any black person in college right now about that white professor who doesn't have to dislike black people or be a racist, but will comment on how "well you speak" as a black student, or compliment your strong command of the English language. They would not say that shit to white people and it's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. I choose to correct white people in the company of me about the coded language they frequently use. It would sit on my mind if I opted not to. Me choosing to speak up about that is between me and my conscience and what they choose to do with that is between them and theirs. Lebron didn't inject race into the conversation. He only pointed out that it was obviously already there.

Dam @obnoxiouslyfresh reading this post I can tell you have a strong command of the English language

 

[The Lonious Monk]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

@obnoxiouslyfresh and I gave you 4 separate examples of terms that are not inherently racist and you ignored both of us. Acknowledge that first.

You gave examples of words that are black slang and inextricably tied to black people. Had he used those words in a condescending manner, you might have a point that he introduced a racial element. As I've already stated more than once, and as others have already proven in this very topic, posse is not a word in that vein. It has no racial connotations at all. I mean for real man, if you can't see the difference between the subtext carried with homeboy and with posse, I don't know what to tell you.

Bruh he also said LeBron posse is there to fetch his cars and women...but that's not condescending?

It depends. Sometimes that's what niggas in an entourage do. They take care of menial task for the star just so they can get some of that runoff shine. Now in Lebron's case, his entourage consists of people he helped elevate to a professional level that help him with his business. If Phil knew who those guys were and what they did, and he said that, then yeah Phil was being mad condescending. I still wouldn't say it's racial necessarily, but it would have been some bitch shit for real.

However, if Phil thought it was just Lebron, his mom, and some tag-a-longs, then it was still pretty condescending, but not out of bounds considering what happens in the industry.

However, all of that is moot, because as I've pointed out, Phil was paraphrasing Pat Riley's stance on the matter. And at the time, Riley didn't know who was there because he wasn't there, he just wanted his star player on the bus with everyone else.

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

Because it is reasonable to believe that the comment would not have been made, absent of race. The most well-meaning and good-intentioned white people make comments to and about black people that have racial overtones. You can ask any black person in college right now about that white professor who doesn't have to dislike black people or be a racist, but will comment on how "well you speak" as a black student, or compliment your strong command of the English language. They would not say that shit to white people and it's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. I choose to correct white people in the company of me about the coded language they frequently use. It would sit on my mind if I opted not to. Me choosing to speak up about that is between me and my conscience and what they choose to do with that is between them and theirs. Lebron didn't inject race into the conversation. He only pointed out that it was obviously already there.

Dam @obnoxiouslyfresh reading this post I can tell you have a strong command of the English language

:joy: fuck you

 

[The Lonious Monk]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

Because it is reasonable to believe that the comment would not have been made, absent of race. The most well-meaning and good-intentioned white people make comments to and about black people that have racial overtones. You can ask any black person in college right now about that white professor who doesn't have to dislike black people or be a racist, but will comment on how "well you speak" as a black student, or compliment your strong command of the English language. They would not say that shit to white people and it's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. I choose to correct white people in the company of me about the coded language they frequently use. It would sit on my mind if I opted not to. Me choosing to speak up about that is between me and my conscience and what they choose to do with that is between them and theirs. Lebron didn't inject race into the conversation. He only pointed out that it was obviously already there.

Ok, I don't disagree with what you're saying. Sometimes white people do and say racist shit that isn't blatant. But in this situation, what makes anyone believe that this is a case where it was said because of race? Again, people in this topic have already posted examples of the word posse being used by whites in reference to whites, so what is the reasoning behind tying race to this incident?

I'm asking this as a real question. If ya'll have some insight on the word "posse" that I don't, please share, but I've never heard that word used in a way that ties it to race. So why is it fair to automatically assume that Phil used that word only because he was referring to young black males?

 

[Trillfate]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

@obnoxiouslyfresh and I gave you 4 separate examples of terms that are not inherently racist and you ignored both of us. Acknowledge that first.

You gave examples of words that are black slang and inextricably tied to black people. Had he used those words in a condescending manner, you might have a point that he introduced a racial element. As I've already stated more than once, and as others have already proven in this very topic, posse is not a word in that vein. It has no racial connotations at all. I mean for real man, if you can't see the difference between the subtext carried with homeboy and with posse, I don't know what to tell you.

Bruh he also said LeBron posse is there to fetch his cars and women...but that's not condescending?

He said that about a happily married man too

Lebron has every right to check him.

 

[soul rattler]

Let me just post this excerpt from Phil's book.

Now fast forward damn near 11 years later and reread Phil's latest comment. Are you telling me that that man is not prescribing a stereotype on LeBron James?

 

[TheGOAT]

Let me just post this excerpt from Phil's book.

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

@obnoxiouslyfresh and I gave you 4 separate examples of terms that are not inherently racist and you ignored both of us. Acknowledge that first.

You gave examples of words that are black slang and inextricably tied to black people. Had he used those words in a condescending manner, you might have a point that he introduced a racial element. As I've already stated more than once, and as others have already proven in this very topic, posse is not a word in that vein. It has no racial connotations at all. I mean for real man, if you can't see the difference between the subtext carried with homeboy and with posse, I don't know what to tell you.

Bruh he also said LeBron posse is there to fetch his cars and women...but that's not condescending?

So Phil wasnt talking about Lebrons ppl. He was talking about NBA entourages in general.

@blackrain with the reach

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Let me just post this excerpt from Phil's book.

Now fast forward damn near 11 years later and reread Phil's latest comment. Are you telling me that that man is not prescribing a stereotype on LeBron James?

Based on that, you'd have a point if this discussion was centered around LeBron's insistence on staying overnight. In that case, you'd probably be right, that Phil is assuming that Lebron just wants to be with his "posse" and is putting that over his team.

That's not what we're debating though. We're talking about whether this is a racial/racist incident or not. Phil using the word posse in that excerpt and now just shows that he doesn't change his lingo much. It in no way means that there is a racial element to his criticism.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Phil was right or that his remark wasn't carrying some negativity with it. All I'm saying is I don't see where the racism part comes in especially when you account for the fact that Phil and LeBron take shots at each other quite frequently. Again, what makes you think this is some community shit and not just some personal shit between them?

 

[blackrain]

Let's be honest. LeBron James is a diva.

If he thinks the word posse is a racist term, it speaks volumes about his tone-deaf elitism.

Images of Patrick Ewing sweating profusely at the free-throw line, & being called "monkey-man" by commentators is racist. Allen Iverson being called a "spider monkey" by commentator Billy Packer, is racist.

The word posse doesn't come close.

After following his massas orders staying silent on Tamir Rice, and campaigning for crooked Hillary; We finally see LeBron for what he truly is........

A spoiled NBA brat, who could give 2 fucks about the black community, an only concerned about his "brand."

LeBron doesn't have to "Black" the way you want him to.

Wearing a fucking t-shirt makes him Malcolm X now?

Black folks have a love affair with this kind of symbolic bullshit.

What kind of financial risks did he take? Did he use the t-shirt as an opportunity to address police brutality like Kaepernick?

None & nope.

He doesn't have 1/5 of testicular fortitude as the man from Frisco.

So because he's not kneeling but actually actively working to change the lives of the people in the city he grew up he's not really doing anything? Yeah you're more for a gesture than actual action

 

[TheGOAT]

Phils point plain and simple was Lebron feels like he should get special privileges.

Phil has coached MJ, Kobe, Shaq, & Rodman but sees what Lebron is doing as outside the norm.

This happens when u are called King James since junior high

 

[rapmusic]

Thought this was reaching. I'm just laughing that somebody still says posse in 2016

 

[blackrain]

Let me just post this excerpt from Phil's book.

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

@obnoxiouslyfresh and I gave you 4 separate examples of terms that are not inherently racist and you ignored both of us. Acknowledge that first.

You gave examples of words that are black slang and inextricably tied to black people. Had he used those words in a condescending manner, you might have a point that he introduced a racial element. As I've already stated more than once, and as others have already proven in this very topic, posse is not a word in that vein. It has no racial connotations at all. I mean for real man, if you can't see the difference between the subtext carried with homeboy and with posse, I don't know what to tell you.

Bruh he also said LeBron posse is there to fetch his cars and women...but that's not condescending?

So Phil wasnt talking about Lebrons ppl. He was talking about NBA entourages in general.

@blackrain with the reach

No it's not a reach because he used LeBron as a specific example in that excerpt from his book. Was he talking about players in general? Yes, but he also specifically mentioned LeBron...and if nothing else it shows what his definition of a posse is, which is still condescending when you put that label on LeBron and his folks. Especially being that Phil was talking about instance of a team dinner and not just some random stop to go to club...

 

[dwade206]

Cops killing kids in Cleveland with impunity...silence

Phil calls him out for having a posse...responds immediately.

Please ignore his fake outrage.

LeBron is doing what many say they want athletes to do and put his money and time up to help black folks and he put up $40 mill to put essentially a generation of kids into college for the sole purpose of staying in Akron to build up the community. Y'all got to realize different people fight the battle in different ways.

That wasn't my point. I was only speaking of his fake outrage. I'm aware he put up the money which is very admirable.

What makes it fake though? Because he's mad somebody took a personal shot once again, remember this ain't the first time Phil Jackson has said this about LeBron and his friends/business partners, and he called him out on it? Because he stepped up and said the truth which is that young black men who are in the business world are looked at as less than by white folks especially old white guys? What exactly is fake about it?

What are you a Lebron apologist? I explained his "fake" outrage in my first post.

So it's fake because he's not speaking about what you want him to specifically? That makes no sense

Honestly, I don't give a fuck what he does. But let's not ACT like dude didn't dismiss murdered children at the hands of police in his own fuckin city.

 

[blackrain]

For the 10th fucking time, nobody said the word was racist.

So by arguing that it isn't racist, you're just giving a strawman argument, debating something no one disagreed with in the first place.

Again, Lebron specifically said that Phil used that particular word because they were young African Americans, so Lebron is the one that made it about race and Lebron is the one that attached the race to that word. There is no point in invoking a logical fallacy if you're not even going to bother acknowledging the facts.

@obnoxiouslyfresh and I gave you 4 separate examples of terms that are not inherently racist and you ignored both of us. Acknowledge that first.

You gave examples of words that are black slang and inextricably tied to black people. Had he used those words in a condescending manner, you might have a point that he introduced a racial element. As I've already stated more than once, and as others have already proven in this very topic, posse is not a word in that vein. It has no racial connotations at all. I mean for real man, if you can't see the difference between the subtext carried with homeboy and with posse, I don't know what to tell you.

Bruh he also said LeBron posse is there to fetch his cars and women...but that's not condescending?

It depends. Sometimes that's what niggas in an entourage do. They take care of menial task for the star just so they can get some of that runoff shine. Now in Lebron's case, his entourage consists of people he helped elevate to a professional level that help him with his business. If Phil knew who those guys were and what they did, and he said that, then yeah Phil was being mad condescending. I still wouldn't say it's racial necessarily, but it would have been some bitch shit for real.

However, if Phil thought it was just Lebron, his mom, and some tag-a-longs, then it was still pretty condescending, but not out of bounds considering what happens in the industry.

However, all of that is moot, because as I've pointed out, Phil was paraphrasing Pat Riley's stance on the matter. And at the time, Riley didn't know who was there because he wasn't there, he just wanted his star player on the bus with everyone else.

Being that it's very well known who LeBron's people are it's pretty safe to say Phil Jackson knows who they are and that they're his actual business partners and not just some people tagging along for the ride...and it's also safe to say that Pat Riley knew that LeBron asked for them to stay overnight so they could have dinner and not just go out and party...and clearly by the fact that the team did end up staying for the dinner, which that day the put pics all up on social media because I remember them showing the pics on tv during the Cowboys game that year, Riley knew who was there and what the team was staying for...so if Phil Jackson is paraphrasing then he was being purposely misleading with his statement and making it seem like he was alluding to a random stop and not what it was actually for, which another report has already confirmed he knew the instance Riley told him about was a team dinner. There's no real angle to look at this from where Phil Jackson isn't being disrespectful.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Being that it's very well known who LeBron's people are it's pretty safe to say Phil Jackson knows who they are and that they're his actual business partners and not just some people tagging along for the ride...and it's also safe to say that Pat Riley knew that LeBron asked for them to stay overnight so they could have dinner and not just go out and party...and clearly by the fact that the team did end up staying for the dinner, which that day the put pics all up on social media because I remember them showing the pics on tv during the Cowboys game that year, Riley knew who was there and what the team was staying for...so if Phil Jackson is paraphrasing then he was being purposely misleading with his statement and making it seem like he was alluding to a random stop and not what it was actually for, which another report has already confirmed he knew the instance Riley told him about was a team dinner. There's no real angle to look at this from where Phil Jackson isn't being disrespectful.

See we're starting to blend too many different arguments here. I agree that Phil was being disrespectful especially if he knew who the people with LeBron were or that Riley knew who was with LeBron (I'm taking your word for both because I don't know).

The think that's being debated is whether or not it was a racial issue. LeBron tied race to the word posse. My point is that I don't see any reason that race had to be brought in at all especially with regards to a word that doesn't have any racial connotations attached. Why is this a race thing and not just a "Phil disrespecting a player he's been beefing with" thing?