Is hip-hop bad for black America?

[Dr.Chemix]

Then why aren't we filling the gaps bruh?

 

[desertrain10]

as bad as rap can get white people will always be worse for black america

White folks do hold us back and fuck us over a lot but most of us have no further to look than the mirror to see the root of the majority our problems.

Yes and no.

Let's not pretend like white people, who have the most control over society, have not relegated black america to urban wastelands filled with drugs, guns and poverty. How can one expect to flourish in that kind of environment? Of course the individual takes some blame, but to expect a result contrary to what all of the variables are known to produce is just pure lunacy. Gives white people a means to shrug off their end of the blame.

word.....reminds me of an article i was reading the other day
http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/05/the_size_of_the_racial.html

vvvvvv

How Public Policy Built The Racial Wealth Divide

by Seth Freed Wessler, Friday, May 3 2013, 11:55 AM EST

The racial wealth gap never ceases to amaze. Black and Latino families hold pennies of accumulated assets compared to every dollar of the average white family’s investments, retirement savings and home equity. Wealth matters a lot. It’s what families use to buttress against hard times—say a period of joblessness—and it’s what parents pass onto their kids to pay for college and avoid taking out big loans. This means that families without wealth actually pass on a future of debt.

So it’s particularly enraging to observe, once again, that the racial wealth gap is the product of very clear and deliberate public policy. Ta-Nehisi Coates has a post at the Atlantic on a foul 1950’s housing market practice that sprang up because the federal government refused to insure loans for black families. In the space left by this legal exclusion, housing speculators bought cheap properties, jacked up the prices and sold the homes to black families. If the families missed a single payment, the broker could terminate the contract, take all the money the family already invested and kick them out of the home. Coates explains:

Buying on contract meant that you made a down-payment to a speculator. The speculator kept the deed and only turned it over to you after you’d paid the full value of the house — a value determined by the speculator. In the meantime, you were responsible for monthly payments, keeping the house up, and taking care of any problems springing from inspection. If you missed one payment, the speculator could move to evict you and keep all the payments you’d made. Building up equity was impossible, unless — through some Herculean effort — you managed to pay off the entire contract. Very few people did this. The system was set up to keep them from doing it, and allow speculators to get rich through a cycle of evicting and flipping.

Coates posted a chart mocked up by 1960s advocates to show the kinds of markups we’re taking about. The first column reads, “Documented Price Paid By Speculator.” The second: “Documented Price Change To Negro Buyer.” In one case, a home listed on the chart is sold to a black family at nearly three times the purchase price, not including interest.

“In that chart you can literally see black wealth leaving one neighborhood and migrating to another,” Coates writes. “It was not just legal. It was the whole point.”

It’s a prime example, Coates writes, of why “the wealth gap is not a mistake. It is the logical outcome of policy.” And it’s upon this policy history that new forms of predation emerged. The subprime loans of the last decade were targeted to black families who’d been denied affordable and regulated lending services. These losses are part of the reason the wealth gap is now growing. And as I wrote earlier this week, the very same communities appear to be the targets of new schemes, this time in the form of totally unregulated “pension advances” that saddle elderly folks with mammoth interest rates. Some of these borrowers are pushed to advance companies because an earlier foreclosure tanked their credit score and all hope of getting a bank loan.

 

[Ioniz3dSPIRITZ]

Then why aren't we filling the gaps bruh?

Well that is a problem all unto itself. And having a structured household doesn't always mean a child will be less influenced by popular culture. I agree that it all starts at home but the issue being discussed here is if rap/hip hop has been damaging for blacks in America. And the answer is yes. And it's not the genre that is damaging but the actual artist within it.

 

[mryounggun]

The book 'Losing My Cool' addresses this. But no, I don't think hip hop is bad for black America. Not more than anything else.

 

[rip.dilla]

Hip hop is just entertainment . . .

 

[desertrain10]

as bad as rap can get white people will always be worse for black america

White folks do hold us back and fuck us over a lot but most of us have no further to look than the mirror to see the root of the majority our problems.

Yes and no.

Let's not pretend like white people, who have the most control over society, have not relegated black america to urban wastelands filled with drugs, guns and poverty. How can one expect to flourish in that kind of environment? Of course the individual takes some blame, but to expect a result contrary to what all of the variables are known to produce is just pure lunacy. Gives white people a means to shrug off their end of the blame.

True White folks could do more for our communities.

We got to start doing more for ourselves though.

A lot of middle class Blacks making just as much money as middle class White folks nowadays.

True enough there aren't to many if any Blacks that are running Fortune 500 companies but that doesn't mean we can't rebuild our communities.

Fuck waiting on White folks.

We can build our own homes and we can open up our own businesses in our own communities.

I see a damn liquor store run by Middle Easterners on just about every corner around my way I go to the White community across town I don't see that shit.

Those folks ain't doing shit but supplying area demand in my opinion.

Poising our communities with that bullshit while getting fat on the Black dollar but both giving a shit about the Black plight.

I agree old White conservatives make shit a lot harder on folks that look like me and you under cover ass bigots but way to many niggaz use that as an excuse for Black folks not doing better.

A lot of Black folks need to take responsiblility for their actions and quit acting like Whites have more control over them they have over themselves.

Its at least twice as hard for Blacks to get and do certain shit as Whites but it isnt impossible therefore shouldn't be used as an excuse.

I look at old school Blacks from the Civil Rights Movement and such and they did nothing but over come odds while dealing with all type of shit from White folks.

Current generation Black folks come up with every excuse in the book for their circumstances EXCEPT taking responsibility for themselves and their actions shit is pathetic imo and one of the primary reasons we arent where we are supposed to be as a race right now.

cosign

we do need to do more within our own communities ... however a lack of effort isn't our biggest obstacle

for example, lack of funding and massive amounts of red tape makes it much harder for black small business owners to become successful than just about any other group in america

according to recent findings, even when controlling for factors like industry and credit score, african american, hispanic and women business owners were less likely than white male business owners to have their loan applications approved. ( no surprise)

research also found these minority business owners rely more on their own money – and less on outside capital – than companies run by white male business owners. and given these factors, firms run by African Americans, Hispanics and women end up operating on a much tighter budget. this is true both at the startup stage and several years down the line.

Read more:http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.co...ities-get-fewer-business-loans/#ixzz2SWZxtBWh

than theres the barriers we face when trying to keep out the liquor stores, fast food places, and asian owned beauty supply chains that are disproportionately located in predominantly black neighborhoods

remember state and local agencies review and ultimately approve of the placement of these establishments

not to mention the forces that seek to disenfranchise and hinder blacks from organizing against those that seek to harm us such as residential segregation- which deprives communities of color from receiving equal access to quality education, employment, home ownership, and wealth accumulation

smh....government intervention has somewhat failed us so far but than again i don't see how we are to move forward living within these borders without some sort of change of government policy and proper funding

yes, black wall-street was built and thrived however they did not face the same obstacles and barriers (laws, red tape, etc ) we face today

i dunno...its really a conundrum.....

 

[bootcheese3000]

1.) Mainstream rap perpetuates the stereotypes a lot of other races have about us. Even without rap, we'd still be vilified nonetheless.

2.) Rap is dangerous when people take it literal. Which is what I see way too many of my peers doing. In a sense it has become a determining factor in how many individuals live their lives.

Overall, rap hasn't really been beneficial to blacks in America. It has provided an outlet for young black people to rise out of their environment and focus their attention on something less destructive. However how beneficial is this as a whole if they're simply perpetuating negativity among their own people. Rap could be a lot more beneficial if is was widely used as a means to educate and wake people up. And I don't mean the occasional "conscious" song we get from time to time.

Hip/hop or rap started out as a product of the environment but now it's starting to shape environments...and not for the good.

@Ioniz3dSPIRITZ I have to disagree with you brother.....

hip-hop have been beneficial to blacks in America in ways not shown and this is coming from a late/mid 70's baby from my era about hip-hop..... hip-hop brought knowledge of self back to the youth, hip-hop taught the youth and resurrected our past hero's...

we didn't learn shit in school about our history or culture, hip-hop with the likes of gangstarr with words I manifesthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9qwU0FYc8g when he was Malcolm X, hip-hop brought Malcolm x to life again and we was interested in the brother and from that we had X the movie.

Jungle Brothers was giving lessons about our eating habits and taught us about eating healthy and drinking water

88-94 was hip-hop's most revolutionary times, we started our own business, we was preaching education, check the stats we was going to college in big numbers brought back HBCU.

THAT OLD KRS-1 video with BLACK MOSES that shit blew my mind, when I was younger I didn't even know Hebrews were black or this song talking about the color of those in the bible by using the bible

NWA was our voice in the hood tackling racism, police brutality, bad schools ect.....

I remember in the mid 90's around 94 there was something that caught the attention of government, there was a poll taking on the black youth teenagers and young adults and they found out and it was a shocker because I remember it was in the newspaper and on news, that BLACK MAN WITH BLACK WOMEN was an all time high,

and I remember as a teenager reading it that it made me feel that my generation, the hip-hop generation aka Generation X is changing things, and It was because of hip-hop...

I was planning making a thread about 88-94 hip-hop revolutionary time in the social lounge....but hip-hop have been beneficial to blacks, it raised a lot of politicians, teachers, business owners ect.......

Let's not forget that around this era, or towards the end, C. Delores Tucker and other black leaders were blasting Snoop Dogg's debut album along with the whole Tupac shooting in New York which prompted his signing with Death Row and that whole East Coast/West Coast beef during The Source Awards. As soon as Big and Tupac were murdered the shift happened and things REALLY haven't been the same since in the genre. At that moment the culture vultures went FULL RETARD on hip-hop and haven't stopped since.

It's no shock people love to celebrate ignorance these days, just look at the comments in this bytch.

 

[blacktux]

^^you just listed positve parenting traits, what about when a child grows up in a negative enviornment and is being exploited by an artist who claims something that relates to the child, but it is not a genuine claim.

In your most impressionable years you are the most vulnerable and the things you see and hear will sit with you subconsciously for years.

Dont turn a blind eye to influence, open your eyes and see the negative impact rap has on the youth today, then imagine that same youth with positive examples.

 

[blacktux]

^^that post is for ajackson

 

[Ajackson17]

as bad as rap can get white people will always be worse for black america

White folks do hold us back and fuck us over a lot but most of us have no further to look than the mirror to see the root of the majority our problems.

Yes and no.

Let's not pretend like white people, who have the most control over society, have not relegated black america to urban wastelands filled with drugs, guns and poverty. How can one expect to flourish in that kind of environment? Of course the individual takes some blame, but to expect a result contrary to what all of the variables are known to produce is just pure lunacy. Gives white people a means to shrug off their end of the blame.

True White folks could do more for our communities.

We got to start doing more for ourselves though.

A lot of middle class Blacks making just as much money as middle class White folks nowadays.

True enough there aren't to many if any Blacks that are running Fortune 500 companies but that doesn't mean we can't rebuild our communities.

Fuck waiting on White folks.

We can build our own homes and we can open up our own businesses in our own communities.

I see a damn liquor store run by Middle Easterners on just about every corner around my way I go to the White community across town I don't see that shit.

Those folks ain't doing shit but supplying area demand in my opinion.

Poising our communities with that bullshit while getting fat on the Black dollar but both giving a shit about the Black plight.

I agree old White conservatives make shit a lot harder on folks that look like me and you under cover ass bigots but way to many niggaz use that as an excuse for Black folks not doing better.

A lot of Black folks need to take responsiblility for their actions and quit acting like Whites have more control over them they have over themselves.

Its at least twice as hard for Blacks to get and do certain shit as Whites but it isnt impossible therefore shouldn't be used as an excuse.

I look at old school Blacks from the Civil Rights Movement and such and they did nothing but over come odds while dealing with all type of shit from White folks.

Current generation Black folks come up with every excuse in the book for their circumstances EXCEPT taking responsibility for themselves and their actions shit is pathetic imo and one of the primary reasons we arent where we are supposed to be as a race right now.

cosign

we do need to do more within our own communities ... however a lack of effort isn't our biggest obstacle

for example, lack of funding and massive amounts of red tape makes it much harder for black small business owners to become successful than just about any other group in america

according to recent findings, even when controlling for factors like industry and credit score, african american, hispanic and women business owners were less likely than white male business owners to have their loan applications approved. ( no surprise)

research also found these minority business owners rely more on their own money – and less on outside capital – than companies run by white male business owners. and given these factors, firms run by African Americans, Hispanics and women end up operating on a much tighter budget. this is true both at the startup stage and several years down the line.

Read more:http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.co...ities-get-fewer-business-loans/#ixzz2SWZxtBWh

than theres the barriers we face when trying to keep out the liquor stores, fast food places, and asian owned beauty supply chains that are disproportionately located in predominantly black neighborhoods

remember state and local agencies review and ultimately approve of the placement of these establishments

not to mention the forces that seek to disenfranchise and hinder blacks from organizing against those that seek to harm us such as residential segregation- which deprives communities of color from receiving equal access to quality education, employment, home ownership, and wealth accumulation

smh....government intervention has somewhat failed us so far but than again i don't see how we are to move forward living within these borders without some sort of change of government policy and proper funding

yes, black wall-street was built and thrived however they did not face the same obstacles and barriers (laws, red tape, etc ) we face today

i dunno...its really a conundrum.....

In olde town columbus a black business owner put a bar or club and the people lobbied at against him and he was ultimately shut down. Now they have this white business owner who put this gay club up and no one lobbied against him and now there is another bar with a white business owner who makes a killing almost every night and no one lobbied against him either.

It's stuff like this why black businesses are always failing and the white hand is always there controlling and manipulating. If blacks protect their brethens businesses and support it more than we would have better businesses. We need to own the industry where no one can else control it and manipulate it. Than they have to come to us. But they will fight tooth and nail and call us lazy when we fail.

 

[desertrain10]

as bad as rap can get white people will always be worse for black america

White folks do hold us back and fuck us over a lot but most of us have no further to look than the mirror to see the root of the majority our problems.

Yes and no.

Let's not pretend like white people, who have the most control over society, have not relegated black america to urban wastelands filled with drugs, guns and poverty. How can one expect to flourish in that kind of environment? Of course the individual takes some blame, but to expect a result contrary to what all of the variables are known to produce is just pure lunacy. Gives white people a means to shrug off their end of the blame.

True White folks could do more for our communities.

We got to start doing more for ourselves though.

A lot of middle class Blacks making just as much money as middle class White folks nowadays.

True enough there aren't to many if any Blacks that are running Fortune 500 companies but that doesn't mean we can't rebuild our communities.

Fuck waiting on White folks.

We can build our own homes and we can open up our own businesses in our own communities.

I see a damn liquor store run by Middle Easterners on just about every corner around my way I go to the White community across town I don't see that shit.

Those folks ain't doing shit but supplying area demand in my opinion.

Poising our communities with that bullshit while getting fat on the Black dollar but both giving a shit about the Black plight.

I agree old White conservatives make shit a lot harder on folks that look like me and you under cover ass bigots but way to many niggaz use that as an excuse for Black folks not doing better.

A lot of Black folks need to take responsiblility for their actions and quit acting like Whites have more control over them they have over themselves.

Its at least twice as hard for Blacks to get and do certain shit as Whites but it isnt impossible therefore shouldn't be used as an excuse.

I look at old school Blacks from the Civil Rights Movement and such and they did nothing but over come odds while dealing with all type of shit from White folks.

Current generation Black folks come up with every excuse in the book for their circumstances EXCEPT taking responsibility for themselves and their actions shit is pathetic imo and one of the primary reasons we arent where we are supposed to be as a race right now.

cosign

we do need to do more within our own communities ... however a lack of effort isn't our biggest obstacle

for example, lack of funding and massive amounts of red tape makes it much harder for black small business owners to become successful than just about any other group in america

according to recent findings, even when controlling for factors like industry and credit score, african american, hispanic and women business owners were less likely than white male business owners to have their loan applications approved. ( no surprise)

research also found these minority business owners rely more on their own money – and less on outside capital – than companies run by white male business owners. and given these factors, firms run by African Americans, Hispanics and women end up operating on a much tighter budget. this is true both at the startup stage and several years down the line.

Read more:http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.co...ities-get-fewer-business-loans/#ixzz2SWZxtBWh

than theres the barriers we face when trying to keep out the liquor stores, fast food places, and asian owned beauty supply chains that are disproportionately located in predominantly black neighborhoods

remember state and local agencies review and ultimately approve of the placement of these establishments

not to mention the forces that seek to disenfranchise and hinder blacks from organizing against those that seek to harm us such as residential segregation- which deprives communities of color from receiving equal access to quality education, employment, home ownership, and wealth accumulation

smh....government intervention has somewhat failed us so far but than again i don't see how we are to move forward living within these borders without some sort of change of government policy and proper funding

yes, black wall-street was built and thrived however they did not face the same obstacles and barriers (laws, red tape, etc ) we face today

i dunno...its really a conundrum.....

In olde town columbus a black business owner put a bar or club and the people lobbied at against him and he was ultimately shut down. Now they have this white business owner who put this gay club up and no one lobbied against him and now there is another bar with a white business owner who makes a killing almost every night and no one lobbied against him either.

It's stuff like this why black businesses are always failing and the white hand is always there controlling and manipulating. If blacks protect their brethens businesses and support it more than we would have better businesses. We need to own the industry where no one can else control it and manipulate it. Than they have to come to us. But they will fight tooth and nail and call us lazy when we fail.

right, right

we need to support our own

poor planning due to lack of proper education, lack of experience, etc is a big issue for black business owners as well...article below kind of touches on it a bit

vvvvv

Black entrepreneurs start more businesses, but fail at higher rate

Amos Maki

Blacks are starting businesses at greater rates, but they are also failing at greater rates, according to a recent study by the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation.

While black men and women are 50% more likely to attempt a business start-up than their white counterparts, the numbers show many of those new black businesses never get off the ground. And for those that do actually start, they are not growing as quickly or as big as white-owned companies.

Black business owners and analysts say a lack of proper planning, poor capital structure and stigmas are partly to blame.
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2004/05/24/story4.html?page=all

 

[Dr.Chemix]

Then why aren't we filling the gaps bruh?

Well that is a problem all unto itself. And having a structured household doesn't always mean a child will be less influenced by popular culture. I agree that it all starts at home but the issue being discussed here is if rap/hip hop has been damaging for blacks in America. And the answer is yes. And it's not the genre that is damaging but the actual artist within it.

But that's silly to think such a thing and you're not thinking it through. Music has always been a medium of expression. Just like T.I.'s point when discussing why he use bitch in his raps-its out there so he raps about it. Again, how would it help the black community if rap and hip hop was no more? You saying we would snap outta some trance and rebuild our social status? That's absurd.

And when I asked, 'why aren't we filling in the gaps', that old saying that 'it takes a village' was in mind when asking. So what the home is broken? Why aren't we mentoring the youth no matter what?

No rap isn't the problem, WE are the problem. We don't mentor our youth cause we don't want to be the sucker nigga "raising" another man's kids.

And look at your post. When I present this to you, you immediately say in so many words, 'yea but we aren't on that, we talking bout how rap is damaging'. Which is what I'm talking about...responsibility. Oh we can critique all day. Pull up stats and percentages. Talk about socioeconomic structures but we have YET taken some responsibility in this matter.

We need to approach this shit with wisdom. Not with the finger pointing. Not on some 'who can say the most intelligent/observational' shit. We need to hold ourselves accountable. They been saying the same shit in every generation since rap's inception. Nothing has changed.

 

[Wild Self]

It is for the hard headed people that get brainwashed. Especially in the 90s when everyone wanted to be from the streets. You had a lot of people faking the funk and denying that they were from theburbs. Now you got a whole generation of dumb ass people in the stereotypical nonsense in the ratchet society.

 

[fuc_i_look_like]

That was a very poorly written article. But I do agree with idea that (mainstream) rap is horrible for black people. Yeah I listen to the shit, but lately I've found myself listening to a lot less of it because the majority of the lyrics are poison and just plain trash. Mainstream rap is filled with things that Black Americans are already suffering from on a large scale: materialism, ignorance, misogyny, senseless violence, promiscuity, drug dealing, glorification of white/lightskin women.

People claim "it's just music", but it's not. Music is a lot more powerful than people give it credit for, music seeps into your subconscious and affects your thinking and behavior. And even if YOU can separate entertainment from reality, fact is that many people can not. And considering Black people have the highest rate of single parent households, these kids are being raised by rappers, these lil niggas emulate these rappers and their ideals. Recognizing that rap is damaging doesn't have anything to do with "white people trying to villainise something that's Black". Fuck white people. This is about us. And anybody can see that this mind numbing mainstream rap music of today has done way more harm than good. Anyone that says otherwise is in serious denial.

 

[Rahlow]

Hip Hop isn't, the Jew behind it all is

 

[fuc_i_look_like]

Bump..

 

[Undefeatable]

I see Ioniz3dSPIRITZ dropping some sense of 'em as usual. This brother is one of the best posters on here.

Most of these arguments defending hip hop always come up when there are discussions of the subject. Most of them are downright silly.

 

[Undefeatable]

Everything hip-hop talks about existed before hip-hop did. The audacity of niggas blaming music for reflecting society.

Do you even think about what you are saying? I mean think deeply. You seem like a well-read and thoughtful brother.

Problem A might precede B, but that doesn't mean that B can't be a contributing cause to A. Drunk driving existed before they invented Smirnoff Ice, but that doesn't mean that Smirnoff Ice doesn't cause drunk driving. People had lung cancer before cigarettes were invented, but does that mean that smoking cigarettes doesn't sometimes contribute to a person getting lung cancer?

Hip hop can both reflect social problems and help sustain them.

 

[keez.]

I agree that it's the messages that frigging idiots like Lil' Wank and Nikki Retard put inside the music. This generation needs the voice of reason that Public Enemy once bought to the table and still do, but people prefer a catchy beat and a microwave hit instead of substance :-<

 

[Ioniz3dSPIRITZ]

Then why aren't we filling the gaps bruh?

Well that is a problem all unto itself. And having a structured household doesn't always mean a child will be less influenced by popular culture. I agree that it all starts at home but the issue being discussed here is if rap/hip hop has been damaging for blacks in America. And the answer is yes. And it's not the genre that is damaging but the actual artist within it.

But that's silly to think such a thing and you're not thinking it through. Music has always been a medium of expression. Just like T.I.'s point when discussing why he use bitch in his raps-its out there so he raps about it. Again, how would it help the black community if rap and hip hop was no more? You saying we would snap outta some trance and rebuild our social status? That's absurd.

And when I asked, 'why aren't we filling in the gaps', that old saying that 'it takes a village' was in mind when asking. So what the home is broken? Why aren't we mentoring the youth no matter what?

No rap isn't the problem, WE are the problem. We don't mentor our youth cause we don't want to be the sucker nigga "raising" another man's kids.

And look at your post. When I present this to you, you immediately say in so many words, 'yea but we aren't on that, we talking bout how rap is damaging'. Which is what I'm talking about...responsibility. Oh we can critique all day. Pull up stats and percentages. Talk about socioeconomic structures but we have YET taken some responsibility in this matter.

We need to approach this shit with wisdom. Not with the finger pointing. Not on some 'who can say the most intelligent/observational' shit. We need to hold ourselves accountable. They been saying the same shit in every generation since rap's inception. Nothing has changed.

I agree with you brother in that we should focus on our youth no matter what the circumstances. In fact that is one of the many problems that a lot of black Americans have. We don't value our youth enough to take the time and see to it that they succeed. This may be due to the fact that the adults of our generation didn't really take the time to mentor us. And I don't think rap would be much of an issue if our children didn't come from broken families where there's little structure. So in the end all roads do lead to what is taking place in the households.