So you think the last feminist/women's advocate movement was ridiculous, check this one out. lol

[desertrain10]

I believe the hashtag was obviously a ploy to bring attention to their message ... You asked why....Whether they truly believe in the validity of that message is irrelevant to the point I was making

A lot of social programs are cut, but this push to take away womens reproductive rights is unprecedented imho...the call to cut funding planned parenthood is just an extension of that considering they provide the means for a lot of lower income women to terminate early pregnancies ...not to mention in states like an Alabama there is only 1 or maybe 2 operational abortion clinics...and recently there was a big fight over would employers have to cover female birthcontrol pills that serve other purpose besides preventing pregnancies even though a lot of plans cover viagra

Whether or not the responsible party is punished is besides the point... We should be discussing why so many blk women murdered are not only killed but sexually abused by the men in their lives...unless u feel as though it's an issue not worth discussing

Misogny in mainstream hip hop is rampant .... The fact that this music popular with young woman and men alike should concern us all... And only means they have began to internalize sexism

And never did I ever once place blame at one person or one groups feet...we all share some blame... So miss me with your attempts to make it seem as though I'm just some man basher

We can agree to disagree on the Planned Parenthood stuff. I don't believe women have some kind of fundamental right to kill developing children. So I don't believe that right can be taken away. Is it legal? Yes, but legal rights come and go based on the will of the people. If more people are for abortion than against it, then they should put political pressure on the politicians, and the attack on abortion will cease. I have a feeling though that there are as many people against abortion as for it, and as a result things like this can happen.

I think the topic of why so many women are murdered and sexually abused is a topic worth discussing. I just don't have any input because I don't have a clue of what the answer could be or the solution. I'd guess at least some of those women were after bad boys and found one, but I doubt that is true for the majority of victims.

Ehhh I don't particularly like modern mainstream hip hop, and I'd agree with you that the messages the music send out are dangerous.

I'm not attempting to make you seem like anything. But you and others do seem to throw a lot of the blame for these issues at men's feet and specifically black men. I wouldn't say you're the worst when it comes to that, but you're being disingenuous if you're claiming that you've never done that on here.

When I have taken blk men to task I was just speaking my truth...and just as many times I have pointed the finger at blk men, I've defended them

Same as with you

You havent always had nice things to say about blk women or women in general, but I wouldn't say ur a woman basher...to say so would be dismissive and unfair to you

And i wouldnt get an abortion myself, but it should be a fundamental right for a woman to do as she pleases with her reproductive organs, otherwise we are forcing women to carry out pregnancies against their will... I also believe up to certain pt in time a man should be able to sign away his parental rights and responsibilities of an unwanted child

As far why so many women die and are abused by the hands of men, wouldn't it be same to assume that our environment has a great deal to do with it...that would be a great starting point...

 

[deadeye]

Let's talk about how the overwhelming majority of blk women murdered were murdered by men many of whom they were intimate with and their deaths unrelated to any other criminal activity

Simple solution.

They could have avoided those situations if they didn't choose to be with abusive men.

So there's no discussion to be had about the mindset these men may share?

Absolutely.

However, we'd also have to discuss the mindset of the women who choose to be with men who abuse them.

Personal responsibility.

And no.....I'm not advocating "blaming the victim."

Just saying that men like that should be held accountable for their abusive actions.......but the women need to be held accountable (not blamed) for choosing to be with these men.

Most women can tell what type of man they're dealing with just based on instinct alone.

They know if they're with a man they can get over on......and they know if they're dealing with a man who they can't get over on.

Therefore, they should also be able to tell if they're with the type of man who would never hit them....or if they're with the type of man who wouldn't hesitate to hit them if they come out of their mouth wrong.

Basically, in most cases, if women made better decisions.....they wouldn't be in abusive situations.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I believe the hashtag was obviously a ploy to bring attention to their message ... You asked why....Whether they truly believe in the validity of that message is irrelevant to the point I was making

A lot of social programs are cut, but this push to take away womens reproductive rights is unprecedented imho...the call to cut funding planned parenthood is just an extension of that considering they provide the means for a lot of lower income women to terminate early pregnancies ...not to mention in states like an Alabama there is only 1 or maybe 2 operational abortion clinics...and recently there was a big fight over would employers have to cover female birthcontrol pills that serve other purpose besides preventing pregnancies even though a lot of plans cover viagra

Whether or not the responsible party is punished is besides the point... We should be discussing why so many blk women murdered are not only killed but sexually abused by the men in their lives...unless u feel as though it's an issue not worth discussing

Misogny in mainstream hip hop is rampant .... The fact that this music popular with young woman and men alike should concern us all... And only means they have began to internalize sexism

And never did I ever once place blame at one person or one groups feet...we all share some blame... So miss me with your attempts to make it seem as though I'm just some man basher

We can agree to disagree on the Planned Parenthood stuff. I don't believe women have some kind of fundamental right to kill developing children. So I don't believe that right can be taken away. Is it legal? Yes, but legal rights come and go based on the will of the people. If more people are for abortion than against it, then they should put political pressure on the politicians, and the attack on abortion will cease. I have a feeling though that there are as many people against abortion as for it, and as a result things like this can happen.

I think the topic of why so many women are murdered and sexually abused is a topic worth discussing. I just don't have any input because I don't have a clue of what the answer could be or the solution. I'd guess at least some of those women were after bad boys and found one, but I doubt that is true for the majority of victims.

Ehhh I don't particularly like modern mainstream hip hop, and I'd agree with you that the messages the music send out are dangerous.

I'm not attempting to make you seem like anything. But you and others do seem to throw a lot of the blame for these issues at men's feet and specifically black men. I wouldn't say you're the worst when it comes to that, but you're being disingenuous if you're claiming that you've never done that on here.

When I have taken blk men to task I was just speaking my truth...and just as many times I have pointed the finger at blk men, I've defended them

Same as with you

You havent always had nice things to say about blk women or women in general, but I wouldn't say ur a woman basher...to say so would be dismissive and unfair to you

And i wouldnt get an abortion myself, but it should be a fundamental right for a woman to do as she pleases with her reproductive organs, otherwise we are forcing women to carry out pregnancies against their will... I also believe up to certain pt in time a man should be able to sign away his parental rights and responsibilities of an unwanted child

As far why so many women die and are abused by the hands of men, wouldn't it be same to assume that our environment has a great deal to do with it...that would be a great starting point...

We're not forcing anyone to do anything. When a woman gets pregnant that's a consequence of her actions. No one should have to force her to deal with that consequences.

As far as environment playing a role in the abuse. That's probably true to some degree, but there are a lot of abusers from good nonviolent homes too. It's a complex problem. I don't think there is an easy or singular answer.

 

[desertrain10]

I believe the hashtag was obviously a ploy to bring attention to their message ... You asked why....Whether they truly believe in the validity of that message is irrelevant to the point I was making

A lot of social programs are cut, but this push to take away womens reproductive rights is unprecedented imho...the call to cut funding planned parenthood is just an extension of that considering they provide the means for a lot of lower income women to terminate early pregnancies ...not to mention in states like an Alabama there is only 1 or maybe 2 operational abortion clinics...and recently there was a big fight over would employers have to cover female birthcontrol pills that serve other purpose besides preventing pregnancies even though a lot of plans cover viagra

Whether or not the responsible party is punished is besides the point... We should be discussing why so many blk women murdered are not only killed but sexually abused by the men in their lives...unless u feel as though it's an issue not worth discussing

Misogny in mainstream hip hop is rampant .... The fact that this music popular with young woman and men alike should concern us all... And only means they have began to internalize sexism

And never did I ever once place blame at one person or one groups feet...we all share some blame... So miss me with your attempts to make it seem as though I'm just some man basher

We can agree to disagree on the Planned Parenthood stuff. I don't believe women have some kind of fundamental right to kill developing children. So I don't believe that right can be taken away. Is it legal? Yes, but legal rights come and go based on the will of the people. If more people are for abortion than against it, then they should put political pressure on the politicians, and the attack on abortion will cease. I have a feeling though that there are as many people against abortion as for it, and as a result things like this can happen.

I think the topic of why so many women are murdered and sexually abused is a topic worth discussing. I just don't have any input because I don't have a clue of what the answer could be or the solution. I'd guess at least some of those women were after bad boys and found one, but I doubt that is true for the majority of victims.

Ehhh I don't particularly like modern mainstream hip hop, and I'd agree with you that the messages the music send out are dangerous.

I'm not attempting to make you seem like anything. But you and others do seem to throw a lot of the blame for these issues at men's feet and specifically black men. I wouldn't say you're the worst when it comes to that, but you're being disingenuous if you're claiming that you've never done that on here.

When I have taken blk men to task I was just speaking my truth...and just as many times I have pointed the finger at blk men, I've defended them

Same as with you

You havent always had nice things to say about blk women or women in general, but I wouldn't say ur a woman basher...to say so would be dismissive and unfair to you

And i wouldnt get an abortion myself, but it should be a fundamental right for a woman to do as she pleases with her reproductive organs, otherwise we are forcing women to carry out pregnancies against their will... I also believe up to certain pt in time a man should be able to sign away his parental rights and responsibilities of an unwanted child

As far why so many women die and are abused by the hands of men, wouldn't it be same to assume that our environment has a great deal to do with it...that would be a great starting point...

We're not forcing anyone to do anything. When a woman gets pregnant that's a consequence of her actions. No one should have to force her to deal with that consequences.

As far as environment playing a role in the abuse. That's probably true to some degree, but there are a lot of abusers from good nonviolent homes too. It's a complex problem. I don't think there is an easy or singular answer.

What?

Considering a woman can opt to have an abortion and there are ppl actively trying to take away that avenue, wouldnt that mean they would than be forcing women to carry children they don't want to term...lets hold ppl accountable for their actions but that's excessive don't you think?

Than what does that mean for children? Our foster care system is already burdened enough... And that is what kills me... The pro life crowd always want to say its not an attack on women and how they are protecting life but they never want to talk about what happens once the child is born... Or they don't want to talk about how when all abortions were illegal women and girls were dying because they resorted to drinking bleach or going to shady back alley doctors

And yes athat of people who do bad things come from good homes...what or who else could be inflluencing them? Could it be the outside world? Let's talk about that...but wait that actually takes honesty and effort, so lets not...right? Lol

 

[desertrain10]

Let's talk about how the overwhelming majority of blk women murdered were murdered by men many of whom they were intimate with and their deaths unrelated to any other criminal activity

Simple solution.

They could have avoided those situations if they didn't choose to be with abusive men.

So there's no discussion to be had about the mindset these men may share?

Absolutely.

However, we'd also have to discuss the mindset of the women who choose to be with men who abuse them.

Personal responsibility.

And no.....I'm not advocating "blaming the victim."

Just saying that men like that should be held accountable for their abusive actions.......but the women need to be held accountable (not blamed) for choosing to be with these men.

Most women can tell what type of man they're dealing with just based on instinct alone.

They know if they're with a man they can get over on......and they know if they're dealing with a man who they can't get over on.

Therefore, they should also be able to tell if they're with the type of man who would never hit them....or if they're with the type of man who wouldn't hesitate to hit them if they come out of their mouth wrong.

Basically, in most cases, if women made better decisions.....they wouldn't be in abusive situations.

Off instinct alone?

What type of pseudo science nonsense you talking about lol

And if these abusers and murderers wouldn't get violent we would have nothing to talk about, no? Lol

But anyways ...lets talk about why individuals seek out and stay in abusive relationships? And why with male, females relationships that end with murder, women are the victims the overwhelming majority of the time? Maybe its a cultural thing?

 

[taeboo]

The whole concept of "emotional labor" just sounds ridiculous.

 

[Ubuntu1]

Thats not an excuse, Arabs, Indians and even Africans in these countries live in the same environments as black caribbean immigrants, yet they continue to procreate and marry people from their race, while black caribbean immigrants typically go towards whiteness. So why are Arabs, Indians and even Africans going in the opposite direction of black immigrants?

Why do you not consider African immigrants to be 'black' immigrants? I can somewhat understand why people in the U.S would use 'black' as ethnic designation to describe the culture and ethnicity of black Americans who descend from Southern slaves for ease of conversion since Nigerian/Jamaican/Ghanaian/Haitian etc.- Americans are 'literally' black Americans but ethnically different than the majority of black America but why would Caribbean immigrants and their children in the U.K or Canada be black but not the Africans in these countries? If it's not a racial term or an ethnic term then what is it? I remember you saying somewhere else that you weren't American but it's usually Americans who don't use 'black' to describe African descended people generally (although I've heard some non-blacks in Canada and maybe a few West Indians say that they don't consider Africans to be 'black'. I've never heard an African claim that they don't consider themselves to be black).

Indians generally marry within their group but is that true for Arabs (Arabs who are raised in Western countries)? I vaguely remember hearing that African men in the U.K were less likely to marry white women than Afro-Caribbean men were but I don't know if that's true for Canada.

The majority of blacks in the U.K are actually African now. West Indians dominate in Canada, though. Blacks only make up around 2% of the Canadian population and I think it's the same figure for the U.K. Compare that to black Americans making up around 12% of the U.S.

AFRICANS and east indians are naturally going to be more ethnocentric when they leave their home nations and live elsewhere because in the first place they don't speak the language as well and often have a different religion these people and are less familiar with the culture in a western country so they have to stick together. For people coming from the west indies moving into an english speaking nation like the uk and canada is much easier thus their is less ethnocentrism so a higher percentage will marry out.

I have never come across an African or Indian who couldn't speak English well. If an African who immigrates to an English speaking Western country can't speak English well it's probably because they come from a country that was colonized by France, Belgium or some country other than the U.K (so they would probably be fluent in French or some other European language). Virtually all Africans who come from former British colonies can speak English. The majority of African immigrants are probably Christians (minus those from places like Senegal, the Gambia, Northern Nigeria, Somalia etc. where Islam is dominant). That's been my experience (having been born in Zambia and raised in Canada), it might be different in different places.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

What?

Considering a woman can opt to have an abortion and there are ppl actively trying to take away that avenue, wouldnt that mean they would than be forcing women to carry children they don't want to term...lets hold ppl accountable for their actions but that's excessive don't you think?

Than what does that mean for children? Our foster care system is already burdened enough... And that is what kills me... The pro life crowd always want to say its not an attack on women and how they are protecting life but they never want to talk about what happens once the child is born... Or they don't want to talk about how when all abortions were illegal women and girls were dying because they resorted to drinking bleach or going to shady back alley doctors

And yes athat of people who do bad things come from good homes...what or who else could be inflluencing them? Could it be the outside world? Let's talk about that...but wait that actually takes honesty and effort, so lets not...right? Lol

1) Why is it so hard for pro-choice people to understand that standing against abortion for most isn't about taking rights away from women. Pro-choicers are generally fundamentally against abortion. They consider fetuses to be a form of human life and therefore reject the idea that women have the right to take that life. I don't think it is excessive to expect that if a woman made the choice to have sex and it resulted in a pregnancy, that she have to accept that responsibility. If a woman chooses to keep the child, the man has to accept the responsibility of paying child support. Actions have consequences. Those consequences shouldn't just be thrown out because they may be unpleasant.

2) You make some good point and they are typically why I'm not totally anti-abortion. Getting an abortion is better than abusing, neglecting, or abandoning the child, so we agree there. But the belief that abortion should be legal to save a child from a potential life of miserable is different than the belief that abortion should be legal because women have the right to kill fetuses they didn't want. I can somewhat agree with the former, but the latter is bullshit.

3) Again, I believe the topic of abuse of women is a conversation that should be had. I just don't think the issue boils down to one or two likely causes as some thing. I think there are probably dozens of reasons. In fact I think abuse of women itself is really just a symptom of a bigger issue. That being that humans are generally vile creatures.

 

[BEAM]

.. Actions have consequences. Those consequences shouldn't just be thrown out because they may be unpleasant ..

Sure, there are some instances in which this line of thinking may actually be as practical as it seems righteous, but we live in the 21st century. Most technological advances ( which include condoms and the ability to safely undergo an abortion ) are at their root, ways to avoid consequences / accept things as they are.

Everything else you said was on point tho.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

.. Actions have consequences. Those consequences shouldn't just be thrown out because they may be unpleasant ..

Sure, there are some instances in which this line of thinking may actually be as practical as it seems righteous, but we live in the 21st century. Most technological advances ( which include condoms and the ability to safely undergo an abortion ) are at their root, ways to avoid consequences / accept things as they are.

Everything else you said was on point tho.

You're saying this as if people can't reject certain types of technological advances for the betterment of society. Just because the modern world has an option doesn't mean people should just accept those options.

 

[desertrain10]

What?

Considering a woman can opt to have an abortion and there are ppl actively trying to take away that avenue, wouldnt that mean they would than be forcing women to carry children they don't want to term...lets hold ppl accountable for their actions but that's excessive don't you think?

Than what does that mean for children? Our foster care system is already burdened enough... And that is what kills me... The pro life crowd always want to say its not an attack on women and how they are protecting life but they never want to talk about what happens once the child is born... Or they don't want to talk about how when all abortions were illegal women and girls were dying because they resorted to drinking bleach or going to shady back alley doctors

And yes athat of people who do bad things come from good homes...what or who else could be inflluencing them? Could it be the outside world? Let's talk about that...but wait that actually takes honesty and effort, so lets not...right? Lol

1) Why is it so hard for pro-choice people to understand that standing against abortion for most isn't about taking rights away from women. Pro-choicers are generally fundamentally against abortion. They consider fetuses to be a form of human life and therefore reject the idea that women have the right to take that life. I don't think it is excessive to expect that if a woman made the choice to have sex and it resulted in a pregnancy, that she have to accept that responsibility. If a woman chooses to keep the child, the man has to accept the responsibility of paying child support. Actions have consequences. Those consequences shouldn't just be thrown out because they may be unpleasant.

2) You make some good point and they are typically why I'm not totally anti-abortion. Getting an abortion is better than abusing, neglecting, or abandoning the child, so we agree there. But the belief that abortion should be legal to save a child from a potential life of miserable is different than the belief that abortion should be legal because women have the right to kill fetuses they didn't want. I can somewhat agree with the former, but the latter is bullshit.

3) Again, I believe the topic of abuse of women is a conversation that should be had. I just don't think the issue boils down to one or two likely causes as some thing. I think there are probably dozens of reasons. In fact I think abuse of women itself is really just a symptom of a bigger issue. That being that humans are generally vile creatures.

An individual who considers themselves pro-life may only want to preserve life...which is their right...but the fact still remains their stance places that person in opposition of a woman having the means to end an unwanted pregnancy within the timeframe permitted... Thats still an attack on women as far as I'm concerned

Especially considering how many living children and women have either died or suffered on account of abortions not being legal or accessible

And it begs the question are the lives of fetuses worth preserving over women and girls?

Yes, a fetus is a living being, but is it really alive? Technically yes, but being alive has a different meaning from having a life

Than take myself for instance, I wouldn't get an abortion... I believe they are immoral...But up to a certain point I don't feel its my place or the governments to tell another person she can't... She has to live with the consequences whatever they may thus it should be her right

Side bar: I also believe men should have the option to sign away all of his parental rights and legal responsibilities for a child early in a pregnancy

And yes humans can be ugly, but that doesn't really explain away my questions...imho with the exception of the mentally impaired, we are born blank slates... The world around us plays a big role in shaping our psyches...so for me that begs the question what are we doing as a society to produce these outcomes over and over again

 

[The Lonious Monk]

What?

Considering a woman can opt to have an abortion and there are ppl actively trying to take away that avenue, wouldnt that mean they would than be forcing women to carry children they don't want to term...lets hold ppl accountable for their actions but that's excessive don't you think?

Than what does that mean for children? Our foster care system is already burdened enough... And that is what kills me... The pro life crowd always want to say its not an attack on women and how they are protecting life but they never want to talk about what happens once the child is born... Or they don't want to talk about how when all abortions were illegal women and girls were dying because they resorted to drinking bleach or going to shady back alley doctors

And yes athat of people who do bad things come from good homes...what or who else could be inflluencing them? Could it be the outside world? Let's talk about that...but wait that actually takes honesty and effort, so lets not...right? Lol

1) Why is it so hard for pro-choice people to understand that standing against abortion for most isn't about taking rights away from women. Pro-choicers are generally fundamentally against abortion. They consider fetuses to be a form of human life and therefore reject the idea that women have the right to take that life. I don't think it is excessive to expect that if a woman made the choice to have sex and it resulted in a pregnancy, that she have to accept that responsibility. If a woman chooses to keep the child, the man has to accept the responsibility of paying child support. Actions have consequences. Those consequences shouldn't just be thrown out because they may be unpleasant.

2) You make some good point and they are typically why I'm not totally anti-abortion. Getting an abortion is better than abusing, neglecting, or abandoning the child, so we agree there. But the belief that abortion should be legal to save a child from a potential life of miserable is different than the belief that abortion should be legal because women have the right to kill fetuses they didn't want. I can somewhat agree with the former, but the latter is bullshit.

3) Again, I believe the topic of abuse of women is a conversation that should be had. I just don't think the issue boils down to one or two likely causes as some thing. I think there are probably dozens of reasons. In fact I think abuse of women itself is really just a symptom of a bigger issue. That being that humans are generally vile creatures.

An individual who considers themselves pro-life may only want to preserve life...which is their right...but the fact still remains their stance places that person in opposition of a woman having the means to end an unwanted pregnancy within the timeframe permitted... Thats still an attack on women as far as I'm concerned

Especially considering how many living children and women have either died or suffered on account of abortions not being legal or accessible

And it begs the question are the lives of fetuses worth preserving over women and girls?

Yes, a fetus is a living being, but is it really alive? Technically yes, but being alive has a different meaning from having a life

Than take myself for instance, I wouldn't get an abortion... I believe they are immoral...But up to a certain point I don't feel its my place or the governments to tell another person she can't... She has to live with the consequences whatever they may thus it should be her right

Side bar: I also believe men should have the option to sign away all of his parental rights and legal responsibilities for a child early in a pregnancy

And yes humans can be ugly, but that doesn't really explain away my questions...imho with the exception of the mentally impaired, we are born blank slates... The world around us plays a big role in shaping our psyches...so for me that begs the question what are we doing as a society to produce these outcomes over and over again

I can respect your stance on abortion even though I don't agree with a lot of it. I do agree that abortion should always be legal in the cases of problem pregnancies. If you're talking about instances where the pregnancy could be a danger to the woman, the life of the woman should be prioritized over the fetus'.

I do agree that the world around us plays a big role in shaping our psyches, but I do believe we're all born with a certain amount of programming due to genetics. I also think we have own little quirks and personality traits that are with us from the start. That's why two people can come from the same place, experience the same external stimuli, and do completely different things. I would actually argue the fact that society has changed quite a bit over the milennia, but most of these problems have always been around. That goes to show it's not just about the nature of society. That said, I'm sure there are things we as a society could do to help the problem, but should those things be done. For example, you talked about misogyny in Hip Hop. I supposed you could censor the music to address that problem, but would anyone really stand for that and should you punish the thousands of people that listen to the music and don't abuse women just to may stop the dozen or so (by comparison) abusers?