Besides him being white, how is Eminem really marketable?

[Disciplined InSight]

im not gonna sit here and post 10 tracks showing every example but any horrorcore rapper has talked about all that sick shit in one song or another. odd future, brotha lynch hung, geto boys, kool keith etc. just cuz its not mainstream doesnt mean it doesnt exist

The only difference between Eminem and the others you mentioned is that they didn't have a powerful industry machine pusher like Interscope behind them.

 

[Stew]

The only difference between Eminem and the others you mentioned is that they didn't have a powerful industry machine pusher like Interscope behind them.

Excuses, excuses. Em is better in almost every category then the others as well.

 

[H-Rap 180]

I agree with Hrap to a certain extent but there has always been a market for the 'horrorcore' (for lack of a better term) aspect of hiphop. Gravediggaz first album, MC Ren's first solo album, Brother Lynch Hung, and in 2011 Tyler, the Creator are all black rappers who have rapped about these same topics that you criticize Eminem for. So it is not like there hasn't been "shock rap" before Eminem came around.

I think, however, that you undervalue Eminem's lyrical skills due to your hatred for some of the things he has done in the past (the 'racist tapes'). Eminem was competing at an elite level in the underground battle scene before the Interscope marketing machine ever got a hold of him and he won over the respect of hiphop giants like Rakim, KRS, Redman, Jay Z, and so on for his skills on the microphone.

Even most people who hate his content admit he can spit as good or better than some of the greatest.

Emenim is highly-skilled from a technical aspect and his mastery of the language should be applauded.

I disagree with your MC Ren reference, his first solo album was heavily influenced by the nation of Islam if I remember correctly.

Brotha Lynch is disgusting and despicable, Tyler is an over-hyped Emenim wannabe.

Emenim could have been one of my favorite emcees were it not for his cartoonish persona, homo-eroticism, and his voice which I find impossible to listen to...along with the racism and violence.

Horror-core and it's off-shoots were never a part of mainstream HipHop until Emenim made it to the mainstream, Gravediggaz failed to go Gold and Geto Boys shed a lot of their horror schtick once they created enough controversy to get some money.

The mother-hatred is taboo within African-American culture as well as homosexuality but Emenim with made those things a part of HipHop culture.

 

[sniperk]

Emenim is highly-skilled from a technical aspect and his mastery of the language should be applauded.

I disagree with your MC Ren reference, his first solo album was heavily influenced by the nation of Islam if I remember correctly.

Brotha Lynch is disgusting and despicable, Tyler is an over-hyped Emenim wannabe.

Emenim could have been one of my favorite emcees were it not for his cartoonish persona, homo-eroticism, and his voice which I find impossible to listen to...along with the racism and violence.

Horror-core and it's off-shoots were never a part of mainstream HipHop until Emenim made it to the mainstream, Gravediggaz failed to go Gold and Geto Boys shed a lot of their horror schtick once they created enough controversy to get some money.

The mother-hatred is taboo within African-American culture as well as homosexuality but Emenim with made those things a part of HipHop culture.

I think we are basically in agreement then when it comes to Eminem.

I just gotta argue with you about MC Ren, though. He went platinum on his first solo album 'Kizz My Black Azz' due to shocking songs like this:

[video=youtube;7Z1IcADWfSw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z1IcADWfSw[/video]

He never got into the Nation of Islam until later after him and DJ Train (R.I.P.) took a lot of heat over the product they were putting out and were convinced to use their fame and music to empower black people from conscious cats like Chuck D. and Paris.

 

[And_So_It_Burns]

He reached to a recently untapped demographic….white suburban kids. They really couldn’t relate to artist like Nas and Jay being that they grew up in the projects of QB and Brooklyn. When Em was in his prime, I remember white emo kids who despised any non-eminem rap. It really isn’t because he is/was significantly better at rapping than everyone else it was because they could relate. Dre behind him helped…as did his skin color. I think if a black rapper who came with the exact same skill template as em and the exact same production team at the exact same year he wouldn’t be half as big…

 

['nino'jacob]

eminem being backed by dre doesn't really mean shit, dre gave eminem a platform to do his thing and em's talent did the rest, especially with the fact that dre acknowledged eminem helping revive his own solo career. aftermath was/is a fucking graveyard, anyone heard from hitman again? Dre put in more work on him then slim.

and i don't see how niccas can listen to sslp-tes eminem & claim he's az status. hes clearly superior and more versatile than those rappers

 

[Skepticxl]

This ended up being a lot longer than expected, so I apologize to those that aren't much into reading. I tried to break it up as much as possible so that it wouldn't be cumbersome.

I see a ton of hate against Eminem here, and I think that a lot of that stems from his being mainstream and not the quality of his music.

Now, you're all right to some degree about his being white contributing to his success. But, do you really think that that's true? Vanilla Ice sold a ton as well, and that WAS because he was white. But, does Vanilla Ice have "Stans"? Do people still listen to him for reasons other than just fucking around to Ice, Ice, Baby?

I'm only here to argue my point about the Eminem that was on the scene from Infinite and The Slim Shady EP all the way through The Eminem Show and the 8 Mile Soundtrack, because after which he had a considerable drop in talent. (with the exception of Relapse, which past the hate has incredible lyricism, flow, and production). He completely switches styles from album to album, all the while having MEANINGFUL lyrics, a nasty flow. The production is amazing throughout, which also makes him more "marketable".

Infinite--->sounds a lot like Nas, the people here that have all of the hate on him probably like this one the most because it is when he was underground, so it has to be good right?

SSEP----->Creates the Slim Shady persona, No One Is Iller Than Me probably makes the case to y'all better than anything else on there about his talent, as it doesn't have the "depressed, stan, ahhhhh suburban depressed white kids listen to this" that If I Had has.

SSLP--->Dr. Dre, uses some of the same songs from the EP over better production, rhymes multisyllabic words; creates lots of stories.

MMLP--->Probably the most artistic, and through that it is the most meaningful; also points out many things wrong with society (I'm not homophobic, you're just heterophobic....the president's getting a blowjob, preachers being corrupt, "Stans").

TES/8 Mile---->Overall the album of the best quality of his, production and MCing, but not the best in my opinion; MMLP has that. These songs lose a lot of the relatability that his previous albums had.

I feel your hate. I really do. I HATE music that teenage girls like. And by doing so, it makes me feel superior about my music choices. "I only liked Eminem before Encore, I don't like that Rihanna bullshit" is something that I've said many times. Y'all think that because Eminem is mainstream, he therefore has less talent. I'm just trying to make you have more of an open mind about it, but music is music; if someone truly doesn't enjoy it then that's their prerogative.

It may not even be that, it may be that you can't relate to his lyrical content, which is a big part in liking Eminem. Maybe his lyrics are something that white people relate to more than black people. Maybe songs like: "Kim", "Marshall Mathers", "Stan", "Rock Bottom","Sing for the Moment", "If I had", are all songs that are for those "stupid white boys". I don't know, because I am a 16 year old suburban white kid, so I have no other life to compare it to. It's almost like how Tupac is considered to be a great rapper not just because of his ability, but how many people can relate.

Or maybe you don't like ME; you can't listen to something that I, or any other stereotypical picture of an Eminem fan is, likes. I'm fine with that, and I've said that in one of my previous paragraphs that I often do the same thing.

I know that I'll be called a "Stan" for writing this, but isn't that what truly makes an artist great? That people like his music so much that there is even a name for them?

I made this account because as I was reading this thread I was astonished at the hate against him, when I think that he is an amazing lyricist, even RAKIM said so. But, it's your opinion, I just hope that it was made with an open mind.

 

[Bigavelli]

[QUOTE='nino'jacob;3834417]eminem being backed by dre doesn't really mean shit, dre gave eminem a platform to do his thing and em's talent did the rest, especially with the fact that dre acknowledged eminem helping revive his own solo career. aftermath was/is a fucking graveyard, anyone heard from hitman again? Dre put in more work on him then slim.

and i don't see how niccas can listen to sslp-tes eminem & claim he's az status. hes clearly superior and more versatile than those rappers[/QUOTE]

Yeah like people say Eminem actually has Meaningful Lyrics and makes Heart Felt Music people connect too the average everyday person can relate to Em cos he Raps about what the average regular person goes through

He knows how to make his Music really catchy and that has been a huge part of his success that's why he has so many Hit's and has delivered consistant Hit's his whole career on his own with no features most the time cos he has the ability to make catchy records

 

[Bigavelli]

This ended up being a lot longer than expected, so I apologize to those that aren't much into reading. I tried to break it up as much as possible so that it wouldn't be cumbersome.

I see a ton of hate against Eminem here, and I think that a lot of that stems from his being mainstream and not the quality of his music.

Now, you're all right to some degree about his being white contributing to his success. But, do you really think that that's true? Vanilla Ice sold a ton as well, and that WAS because he was white. But, does Vanilla Ice have "Stans"? Do people still listen to him for reasons other than just fucking around to Ice, Ice, Baby?

I'm only here to argue my point about the Eminem that was on the scene from Infinite and The Slim Shady EP all the way through The Eminem Show and the 8 Mile Soundtrack, because after which he had a considerable drop in talent. (with the exception of Relapse, which past the hate has incredible lyricism, flow, and production). He completely switches styles from album to album, all the while having MEANINGFUL lyrics, a nasty flow. The production is amazing throughout, which also makes him more "marketable".

Infinite--->sounds a lot like Nas, the people here that have all of the hate on him probably like this one the most because it is when he was underground, so it has to be good right?

SSEP----->Creates the Slim Shady persona, No One Is Iller Than Me probably makes the case to y'all better than anything else on there about his talent, as it doesn't have the "depressed, stan, ahhhhh suburban depressed white kids listen to this" that If I Had has.

SSLP--->Dr. Dre, uses some of the same songs from the EP over better production, rhymes multisyllabic words; creates lots of stories.

MMLP--->Probably the most artistic, and through that it is the most meaningful; also points out many things wrong with society (I'm not homophobic, you're just heterophobic....the president's getting a blowjob, preachers being corrupt, "Stans").

TES/8 Mile---->Overall the album of the best quality of his, production and MCing, but not the best in my opinion; MMLP has that. These songs lose a lot of the relatability that his previous albums had.

I feel your hate. I really do. I HATE music that teenage girls like. And by doing so, it makes me feel superior about my music choices. "I only liked Eminem before Encore, I don't like that Rihanna bullshit" is something that I've said many times. Y'all think that because Eminem is mainstream, he therefore has less talent. I'm just trying to make you have more of an open mind about it, but music is music; if someone truly doesn't enjoy it then that's their prerogative.

It may not even be that, it may be that you can't relate to his lyrical content, which is a big part in liking Eminem. Maybe his lyrics are something that white people relate to more than black people. Maybe songs like: "Kim", "Marshall Mathers", "Stan", "Rock Bottom","Sing for the Moment", "If I had", are all songs that are for those "stupid white boys". I don't know, because I am a 16 year old suburban white kid, so I have no other life to compare it to. It's almost like how Tupac is considered to be a great rapper not just because of his ability, but how many people can relate.

Or maybe you don't like ME; you can't listen to something that I, or any other stereotypical picture of an Eminem fan is, likes. I'm fine with that, and I've said that in one of my previous paragraphs that I often do the same thing.

I know that I'll be called a "Stan" for writing this, but isn't that what truly makes an artist great? That people like his music so much that there is even a name for them?

I made this account because as I was reading this thread I was astonished at the hate against him, when I think that he is an amazing lyricist, even RAKIM said so. But, it's your opinion, I just hope that it was made with an open mind.

If you from the hood no matter what colour you are how can you not relate to records you just named like 'If I Had' 'Rock Bottom' '8 Mile Road' 'Lose Yourself' 'We As Americans' etc

If you hate the goverment and the system how can you not relate to records like 'Mosh', 'White America' 'Square Dance' etc

If you are a parent how can you not relate to records like 'Mockingbird, My Darling' etc

If you ever been in a relationship how can you not relate to records like 'Superman' 'Cinderella Man' etc

And you mentioned Rihanna right? ok we know Rihanna is commercial but if anyone who actually heard the record with Rihanna 'Love The Way You Lie it's not like Eminem made a love song, soft romantic mushy Song so many Rappers do about loving a female in that Song Eminem was actually getting Deep and talking about domestic violance so it was a concept record about real troubles that exist

Did it have a commercial sound? sure it did but did it have real Meaninful Lyrics and talking on real life issues? yes which is the beauty of it

 

[ROFL.GUY]

If you from the hood no matter what colour you are how can you not relate to records you just named like 'If I Had' 'Rock Bottom' '8 Mile Road' 'Lose Yourself' 'We As Americans' etc

If you hate the goverment and the system how can you not relate to records like 'Mosh', 'White America' 'Square Dance' etc

If you are a parent how can you not relate to records like 'Mockingbird, My Darling' etc

If you ever been in a relationship how can you not relate to records like 'Superman' 'Cinderella Man' etc

And you mentioned Rihanna right? ok we know Rihanna is commercial but if anyone who actually heard the record with Rihanna 'Love The Way You Lie it's not like Eminem made a love song, soft romantic mushy Song so many Rappers do about loving a female in that Song Eminem was actually getting Deep and talking about domestic violance so it was a concept record about real troubles that exist

Did it have a commercial sound? sure it did but did it have real Meaninful Lyrics and talking on real life issues? yes which is the beauty of it

you type the same shit EVERY TIME... .. EM dont want you as a fan

 

[Bigavelli]

you type the same shit EVERY TIME... .. EM dont want you as a fan

You disagree with what i said? which is basically what skeptical was saying but i just elobarated on what he was saying

Also in an interview with Em during the time of The Eminem Show he himself said that the reason people so many like his Music is cos it's so easy to relate for the average person this came straight outta his mouth so i am infact actually even sayuing exactly what he said @ ROLF GUY

 

[ROFL.GUY]

i agree with you..

but when you post the same shit seemingly wor for word everytime it gets annoying

im not hatin on you just trying to point sometihng out

 

[Bigavelli]

i agree with you..

but when you post the same shit seemingly wor for word everytime it gets annoying

im not hatin on you just trying to point sometihng out

Yeah but i only post it cos its relevant to the thread

It's what every Em fan saying but people like thread starter don't seem to quite get it

 

[H-Rap 180]

I think we are basically in agreement then when it comes to Eminem.

I just gotta argue with you about MC Ren, though. He went platinum on his first solo album 'Kizz My Black Azz' due to shocking songs like this:

[video=youtube;7Z1IcADWfSw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z1IcADWfSw[/video]

He never got into the Nation of Islam until later after him and DJ Train (R.I.P.) took a lot of heat over the product they were putting out and were convinced to use their fame and music to empower black people from conscious cats like Chuck D. and Paris.

I stand corrected, I forgot about that album, I was referring to "Shock of the hour" I believe.

That Ren song is the most repugnant shit I ever heard but I can't stop laughing.

 

[In Your Moms Room]

Skills. The best marketing tool period. LeBron, Kobe, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning are easy to market because there the best at what they do and have skills. You put eminem in there for the same reason.

 

[32DaysOfInfiniti]

He is very relatable to a large group of people who shit on themselves constantly cause they have low self-esteem. He is the voice of that movement

 

[Skepticxl]

He is very relatable to a large group of people who shit on themselves constantly cause they have low self-esteem. He is the voice of that movement

While a lot of what I said had to do with his relatability, he's also an amazing lyricist. I'm sure many of y'all have seen this, but here is an opinion that I'm sure y'all value much higher than mine or any other person who's opinion you try to negate with the label "Stan".

 

[Bigavelli]

He is very relatable to a large group of people who shit on themselves constantly cause they have low self-esteem. He is the voice of that movement

Just cos people grow up poor in the hood, grow up with out a father, grow up struggling to provide for their kid, grow up on welfare and minimum wage doesn't mean they have low self esteem if anything Em's Music inspires those going through what he did

And theres billions going through all that are you saying they have low self esteem? or can it just be they are a product of their enviroment like Eminem was

 

[ROFL.GUY]

Just cos people grow up poor in the hood, grow up with out a father, grow up struggling to provide for their kid, grow up on welfare and minimum wage doesn't mean they have low self esteem if anything Em's Music inspires those going through what he did

And theres billions going through all that are you saying they have low self esteem? or can it just be they are a product of their enviroment like Eminem was

s,

cs, good post

 

[Skepticxl]

I really don't understand how Eminem can get this much hate, yet the people on these forums that are delivering the hate like inferior rappers. Drake, Kanye? Don't get me wrong I love Kanye, but he doesn't have Em's skill. I don't understand how they can even be compared; Kanye's songs (from his college shit) sound good, but they're not at the same intellect as some of Eminem's rhymes.

And Drake, I'm not a fan of similes.