so these burger flippers really think they deserve $15 an hour???

[perspective@100]

If they start getting 15 an hour I might as well stop busting my ass at the post office where I make $17 an hour and start running the drive thru. I'd give them $10-10.50 max

Nigga you sort letters and walk up and down the street looking at beware of dog signs. Shut the fuck up, lol

 

[SneakDZA]

If they start getting 15 an hour I might as well stop busting my ass at the post office where I make $17 an hour and start running the drive thru. I'd give them $10-10.50 max

see that's that crab logic. if 17 is good for you today why would it be not good tomorrow just because somebody else is making 15 or even 150?

 

[konceptjones]

A bunch of mofuckas who don't work at McDonald's tryna say what people at McDonald's deserve...That's not a fun job, that's not a job a person aspires to have, and it's not an easy job depending on certain factors...Fast food workers, hotel attendants, janitors, grocery store clerks, farmers, landscapers, etc...These are all people who work jobs most people don't want to work...Are these the type of jobs adults should settle for?...No, kids shouldn't een settle for shitty jobs but the fact is some people have to...And if they're there doing that shitty work to service you there's no reason they shouldn't be able to at least have benefits if not a substantially higher pay, and if you've really worked in these positions you know that...I usta count my blessings erday when I left that bullshit and got a warehouse job, and that was still shitty in itself...Now I'm back in school cause I want more but erbody doesn't have my opportunities, or my assistance, or my drive, or my information and the wisdom/courage to apply it...There's no reason a good employee of one of the biggest companies in the world, not just America, should be livin 1-300 dollar check to 1-300 dollar check...It's not gonna break the economy to pay these people proportionately...What would fuck the economy up would be the hospitality/service industry crumbling because no one wants to work in it...A lot of the top paying positions in this country are not really responsible for helpin this bitch move on a daily basis...And then they barley een help to stimulate the movement...

Maybe you missed the part where I said that I HAVE worked fast food (Hardees, McDonalds, Arbys, and Taco Bell to be exact). I also worked bussing tables at an Original Pancake House just north of Detroit.

I say the shit ain't hard from experience, and it's only gotten easier over the years. When I worked at Hardees in the late 80's, we made salads by hand, we had to cut lettuce, tomatoes and everything else by hand and assemble it into the finished product. Now the shit comes prepackaged or pre-cut in giant bags. McDonalds niggas don't even have to cut onions, that shit comes in bags as well with the onions for Big Macs coming freeze dried so all you gotta do is soak 'em in water and you're done.

The shit is braindead simple. It's an easy, yet tedious job. I can say what they deserve 'cause I've walked the walk.

 

[perspective@100]

this argument basically boils down to victim/dependent mentality vs. entrepreneurial mentality

Nah, that's just how you see it... You say people need to take responsibility and start their own businesses. You really think people wouldn't if they had the opportunity? Your reality of things is distorted. Most fast food restaurants reside in low income neighborhoods where they undoubtedly exploit the community and give nothing back but heart disease and diabetes. The education in these places is usually public and poor. Odds are they are either dropping out of school or just barely graduating. Yea sure you have a gifted few who excel through all the garbage and nonsense, but when will society as a whole take responsibility for letting these kind of conditions thrive in the first place? Holding a corporation such as a fast food chain responsible and accountable for making sure its employees are able to live comfortably is only a small step in making progress in these under privileged communities.

so if you can unionize, you can organize.......and organizing is all it takes to run your own shit

that is why I support unions, but I don't support a mandatory MW

@The bold, I think we can all agree it takes a little bit more than organization to run a business.

As for the underlined. I'm sure you know the history of business so I dont know why you say things like this. If not let me remind you. Back in the day businesses would pay the workers super low wages until the workers got fed up and tried to do something about it. The business would do one of two things.

1.) Fire all the workers and bring in new people willing to take bullshit pay, or

2.) Hire people to intimidate the organized workers or unions often beating the shit out of them and sometimes killing a few of them.

Without the support of Govt on a mandatory minimum Corps would fully exploit the workers for profit point blank period. A corporation is an entity in itself, therefore no one individual will feel compassion to pay a fellow human being fairly, ever.

Also, without the minimum wage, every illegal immigrant would have a job working for peanuts under the table while the true citizens or should I say "so called legal" citizens would have to fend for themselves doing god knows what.

You cannot support one without the other. It makes no sense at all...

the problem is that everyone naively believes it's someone else's responsibility to provide for their livelihood

it's no one's choice but yours if you decide to work at McD's when you have the ability to unionize or work somewhere else IMO

I will have to disagree with this bold statement. We live in the United States of America. Which has these few words written somewhere in Washington....

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Its not that people want their livelihood provided for, they just believe working should at least make their livelihood sustainable at the bare minimum, which I and you should agree. If someone cannot live properly at the bare minimum how on Earth will they ever pursue happiness which they as All Americans are entitled to?

At the underlined, the unemployment rate is ridiculous. The ability for most of them to work anywhere else is not really an option.

at the bolded, 99% of you cats in this thread arguing off of emotions (that workers should get a raise cause it's hard work) are hypocrites

majority of cats in here arguing against me got an Android or Apple phone, or they are reading my post using a flat screen monitor, or got a pair of $200 Nikes.............all those items are made by workers under way worse conditions making way less pay yet customers could care less

Your wrong here, most of us care about workers in other countries. We all know about sweat shops. Problem is they are not here for us to stamp out and the corporations who own these various places have power over major media outlets and before any resentment and negative publicity can be established to bring awareness the corporate entity waves its magic wand of money and good press and voila everyone forgets.

Demanding rights for what is right in front of us and being passive about what is out of touch does not make us hypocrites at all. Just because our ideology is one way but we are unable to exemplify it fully and totally throughout our daily lives does not change our core beliefs. Basically a christian is still a christian even if he lies cheats and steals. Maybe not in others eyes but still in his own if he feels justification for what he/she does. Can a gay person not be a Christian because they are gay?

Not everything is so clear cut and simple. Its a lot more complex than your above analogy.

 

[Swiffness!]

lol somebody jinxed theyself in this thread

fuck around get fired and catch a bunch of medical bills, yo ass will be fuccin homeless nigga

 

[blakfyahking]

Okay...Cool...So, a bunch of people who are in debt with bad credit, prolly little education, and/or criminal records...Should come together and start a McDonald's...A franchise it takes at least 3 million dollars to own...Maybe if all the workers in NYC start saving their little 1 or 200 dollar checks right now to put towards opening their own store...?

Be real witcha self cuh, that's not gon happen....It's one thing for those who take these typa jobs as what they are commonly seen to be, a stepping stone into something better...But the reality is right now this is where a lot of people are and will be...Laborers...So, why should they do this labor that benefits others and still not be able to pay their bills and keep gas in their car?...And no, I'm not okay with sweat shop workers overseas gettin paid pennies to make the luxuries I enjoy...I think that's ridiculous, een though it might be good for the export profits of those countries, but let's keep this in America...I'd say that being on the low end of the totem pole in America's service industry is one of the most non-gratifying, stressful, depressing jobs one can have...Een butlers and maids(professionals, not freelance housekeepers) make enough to live well, and if not their living/driving/eating is taken care of by the people they work for...

We can talk about side hustles, second jobs and alternatives all day...Hell, lotta folk on govmt assistance are hustlin that...But instead of havin to do all this typa extra shit...Would it not be logical to make it so that good workers at profitable companies could actually live somewhat comfortably off their one job?...It doesn't have to be seen as promoting laziness, cause if pay/benefits go up, their standards should as well...The quality of your service/food/facilitating goods would only get better...And these workers would have a different sense of pride and responsibility in doing their jobs well...Cause they now have more incentive...

Who said start another McD's?

I said start their own store........it could be a regular mom and pop shop

think for a second champ, somebody had to get them organized to even be unionized

it don't take much for cats to come together with the resources to start a business

hell all these niggaz who claim they so supportive could even put they money up.......get on Kickstarter since you down for the cause haha

truthfully the real reason that shit will never happen is cause them niggaz really ain't got a legitimate complaint........

yeah it would be nice if workers could only work one job at a profitable company........but the reality is even highly educated/skilled people can't find jobs with stability like that as much these days

so what you expect to happen for someone who can only do the bare minimum to add value to a business?

 

[blakfyahking]

Nah, that's just how you see it... You say people need to take responsibility and start their own businesses. You really think people wouldn't if they had the opportunity? Your reality of things is distorted. Most fast food restaurants reside in low income neighborhoods where they undoubtedly exploit the community and give nothing back but heart disease and diabetes. The education in these places is usually public and poor. Odds are they are either dropping out of school or just barely graduating. Yea sure you have a gifted few who excel through all the garbage and nonsense, but when will society as a whole take responsibility for letting these kind of conditions thrive in the first place? Holding a corporation such as a fast food chain responsible and accountable for making sure its employees are able to live comfortably is only a small step in making progress in these under privileged communities.

@the bolded.........why do you think that is? it's cause niggaz endorse that bullshit

instead of encouraging dependency on McD's providing better wages, why ain't we attempting to present an alternative so poor folks wouldn't be so vulnerable? you saying it's society's responsibility, when the reality is that an individual is responsible for their own shit

and society is composed of individuals.......yet we got a society now composed of individuals complaining and waiting for others to save them from themselves

how can you hold a corporation accountable when they can just shut shit down and go to another state/jurisdiction?

@The bold, I think we can all agree it takes a little bit more than organization to run a business.

As for the underlined. I'm sure you know the history of business so I dont know why you say things like this. If not let me remind you. Back in the day businesses would pay the workers super low wages until the workers got fed up and tried to do something about it. The business would do one of two things.

1.) Fire all the workers and bring in new people willing to take bullshit pay, or

2.) Hire people to intimidate the organized workers or unions often beating the shit out of them and sometimes killing a few of them.

Without the support of Govt on a mandatory minimum Corps would fully exploit the workers for profit point blank period. A corporation is an entity in itself, therefore no one individual will feel compassion to pay a fellow human being fairly, ever.

Also, without the minimum wage, every illegal immigrant would have a job working for peanuts under the table while the true citizens or should I say "so called legal" citizens would have to fend for themselves doing god knows what.

You cannot support one without the other. It makes no sense at all...

agreed at the bolded................but let's not act like it takes much more

the main issue needed is entrepreneurial spirit..........many people are raised with the mentality that they should spend their entire lives working for someone else

everything at the underlined only happened because there were no unions

what is the purpose of a MW other than encouraging wage collusion between employers if unions are doing their job? illegal immigrants are still getting paid under the table now so I don't see your argument there anyways

I will have to disagree with this bold statement. We live in the United States of America. Which has these few words written somewhere in Washington....

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Its not that people want their livelihood provided for, they just believe working should at least make their livelihood sustainable at the bare minimum, which I and you should agree. If someone cannot live properly at the bare minimum how on Earth will they ever pursue happiness which they as All Americans are entitled to?

At the underlined, the unemployment rate is ridiculous. The ability for most of them to work anywhere else is not really an option.

this is an emotional argument that I'm not even going to waste time trying to refute

Your wrong here, most of us care about workers in other countries. We all know about sweat shops. Problem is they are not here for us to stamp out and the corporations who own these various places have power over major media outlets and before any resentment and negative publicity can be established to bring awareness the corporate entity waves its magic wand of money and good press and voila everyone forgets.

Demanding rights for what is right in front of us and being passive about what is out of touch does not make us hypocrites at all. Just because our ideology is one way but we are unable to exemplify it fully and totally throughout our daily lives does not change our core beliefs. Basically a christian is still a christian even if he lies cheats and steals. Maybe not in others eyes but still in his own if he feels justification for what he/she does. Can a gay person not be a Christian because they are gay?

Not everything is so clear cut and simple. Its a lot more complex than your above analogy.

LMAO @ the bolded

what is the definition of a hypocrite bruh? cause the Bible might disagree with your logic

and bullshit about caring about workers in other countries when niggaz keep buying all that unnecessary shit at the expense of some poor worker across the world living under even worse circumstances...........if you cared you would do something about it..........no one is holding a gun to your head and making you buy shit from a company that exploits workers

what you think customers have no choice in who they give their money to?

people are already aware, they just don't give a fuck......cut the shit fam

unless you trying to say media does your hard thinking for you SMH

 

[perspective@100]

@the bolded.........why do you think that is? it's cause niggaz endorse that bullshit

instead of encouraging dependency on McD's providing better wages, why ain't we attempting to present an alternative so poor folks wouldn't be so vulnerable? you saying it's society's responsibility, when the reality is that an individual is responsible for their own shit

and society is composed of individuals.......yet we got a society now composed of individuals complaining and waiting for others to save them from themselves

how can you hold a corporation accountable when they can just shut shit down and go to another state/jurisdiction?

@The -bold Nope, niggaz dont decide if a new Mcdonalds goes up on the block...

@The underlined- Poor folks are not always poor because of mistakes in life and not making good decisions. Why would the wealthy who clearly have an advantage in a class battle present a way for people in poverty to not be as vulnerable? This whole movement is the poor peoples alternative. Just seems wealthy people dont like it.

You go from "why arent (we)" to "its up to the individual."

With this mentality all slaves could have freed themselves eventually.

Corporations make money in your neighborhood they can be made to uphold certain rules of operation in your neighborhood if your community has influence and structure. If they dont like it they can choose to not operate there, yes.

everything at the underlined only happened because there were no unions

Wrong, the hired goons were called Union Busters. There were unions, businesses just dont give a fuck.

what is the purpose of a MW other than encouraging wage collusion between employers if unions are doing their job? illegal immigrants are still getting paid under the table now so I don't see your argument there anyways

Minimum wage keeps a standard pay so that companies dont pay whatever the fuck they feel like to put it simple. Lets say an illegal immigrant is willing to take $1.50/hour for any job. Without minimum wage every company will start their wages at $1.50/hour. Even with a Union that $1.50/hour could hardly be negotiated to $2.00/Hour without the onslaught of new workers or scabs looking for work. Business ethics fail every time when businesses are not regulated by an outside entity.

this is an emotional argument that I'm not even going to waste time trying to refute

Emotional because its written in Washington, or because I used the words "pursue happiness" even though its written in Washington?

LMAO @ the bolded

what is the definition of a hypocrite bruh? cause the Bible might disagree with your logic

and bullshit about caring about workers in other countries when niggaz keep buying all that unnecessary shit at the expense of some poor worker across the world living under even worse circumstances...........if you cared you would do something about it..........no one is holding a gun to your head and making you buy shit from a company that exploits workers

what you think customers have no choice in who they give their money to?

people are already aware, they just don't give a fuck......cut the shit fam

unless you trying to say media does your hard thinking for you SMH

So you clearly are anti gay rights when it comes to religion and marriage. The Bible also says Jesus could walk on water and turn water to wine. Moses could part a whole sea. And Noah could build a boat to hold two of every animal on the planet.

Yea I know its all bullshit but do we hurt the workers across seas more from buying the product or not buying the product?

If you dont believe in the influence of media I encourage you to go research how Hitler used Propaganda to manipulate his citizens.

 

[UPTOWN]

Spoiler

You made my point all by yourself and also contradicted yourself within two sentences.

Everyone and their momma can work fast food, thus the pay is extremely low. You watch a 15minute training video in the back room and you're behind the grill.

Jobs pay well for several reasons. Two reasons are in the bolded part. Jobs pay well because of the skill required to perform a task and because of the supply of people that are trained to perform that task. There was a point in time only a few years ago where entry level IT was near McDonalds status. In 2000, I got my first professional IT job on a helpdesk

5 years later, EVERYONE jumped into IT and the glut of people that could do the work drove entry level rates down to $10/hr in some cities with desktop techs suddenly needing A+, Network+, and vendor certifications just to make $13/hr.

Too many people capable of performing a task drives the rate of pay down.

Around that same time, the viability of offering your services as a PC tech to individuals via craigslist tanked. There was once a time when I could charge a decent, fair amount of money to build and repair pc's. When the heldesk/desktop tech market was overloaded, those people flooded Craigslist and started driving the rates down there.

GOT dayum at you missing the whole point but then titangrapghing about too. i actually never contradicted myself... BUT YOU JUST DID!! LOL

"Everyone and their momma can work fast food, thus the pay is extremely low. You watch a 15minute training video in the back room and you're behind the grill."

"5 years later, EVERYONE jumped into IT and the glut of people that could do the work drove entry level rates down to $10/hr in some cities with desktop techs suddenly needing A+, Network+, and vendor certifications just to make $13/hr.

Too many people capable of performing a task drives the rate of pay down."

LOL now when this convo started off, the arguement was that fast food work was too easy to ask for high wages. now youre saying that too many ppl capable of performing a task drives the rate of pay down. i clearly stated that it does not matter how many ppl can do a job... and here's why. if it takes 40 ppl to run 3 shifts at a mcdonalds, it does not matter how hard it is to dunk fries in grease. the value in doing the job is that NOT MANY PPL ARE WILLING TO DO IT. so its a non factor that "ANYONE" could possibly do the job. by technicality, anybody can learn computer programming. computer programmers arent in as high demand as fast food workers when you go by numbers. if everybody and their mom knew java, ppl who need developers would still have to pay the going rate, the only thing that would change is that they would have more choices as to who to actually pay to develop their software. everybody and their mom has a car lot and everybody and their mom can sell a car but that does not drive the price of a bmw down.... there is still a standard going rate. in fact, you'd raise an eyebrow if the shit was too far underpriced.

its the type of job and the importance to the company that determines a salary, not how many ppl can do it or how easy it is. because there are other factors that come into play such as the conditions that the employee has to work under etc..

the real reason why IT rates went down is a number of factors. not just because a whole bunch of ppl can do help desk. the biggest factor was that companies found out that if you had a larger number of employees doing IT, the more efficient your business will be, and the less down time you have. so essentially its the same budget with more heads sharing from that same pot, so instead of one person going crazy working 60 hours to keep computers running for 100k a year, you have 4 ppl who all contribute for 25k, this makes the job easier on each person so you see that money was sacrificed for "better working conditions"... this does not apply to jobs like fast food or assembly lines. in fast food, you dont need 4 ppl dunking fries, you just need someone to man the station, but that person cant be studying for their bachelors while the fries are burning the hell up LOL. fries come with every meal so someone has to man the station...... period. the more efficient your mcdonalds location is, the more customers you can serve in a day and the more likely they are to comeback which means even more money in profit. in IT, say you work for dell, more ppl arent going to buy dell computers just because they can always access a service that you advertised as coming with the product LOL

you on some CNN propaganda type shit with your view point. its this way of thinking that allowed mcdonalds to serve more and more customers every year and get away with paying employees less and less at the same time.

you think if everyone picked up and stop working at mcdonalds right now that mcdonalds wouldnt have to offer higher pay to attract new workers?? okay then .... your point sounds good, but holds no weight. there's a reason why mcdonalds is winning, and its not that shit you talking.

youre the type of cat that thinks a supervisor at a company will make a certain amount of money doing their job, but if they go to school at night and actually get a degree, the next day after receiving it they can place the degree on their bosses desk and get a raise just because they have a degree, even tho they will still be performing the exact same job and have the exact same responsibilities LOL. that aint shit but an attitude of entitlement.

Spoiler

so it works both ways ... if its an easy ass job but you have millions of customers coming thru on a daily basis (high demand), somebody has to man those jobs, and if they dont you will lose money. because surely trying to do that easy ass job yourself means you'd have to sacrifice your speedy service and a ton of other shit that makes your business successful. so in turn your employees are important and if the job is secure, meaning an employee knows that it will be there tomorrow because business is consistent, then why wouldnt they try and make a living off of it??

@bolded because no one strives to be "entry level" all their lives.

A job that requires maybe 15-30 minutes of training (including hands-on time) to be proficient is an expendable job. Your employees are important, but because the job requires very little training invested in each employee, high turnover in those positions is acceptable AND just as there's a high demand from customers, there's also a never-ending line of people willing to work those jobs even if it means traveling to the burbs to do so.

^^^ this is just not true my friend LOL ... funny thing is, IT WOULD BE TRUE IF MCD'S ACTUALLY PAID MONEY. there's way too many options like welfare and unemployment for this to be true. yes it is easy in theory to replace a fast food employee, but eventually you will have to resort to teenagers, retards, and weirdos once you start to really use that "never ending line of ppl"

Spoiler

now ... if the general consensus is that no one would work for mcdonalds for less than $15/ hour, same way no nba league veteran will play for less than 1 million a season (even tho they arent as "important" as the stars on the team), then what will mcdonalds do?? lose a bunch of customers to chick fil a and burger king or pay them the money and take home a little less profit??

For every person that says they won't work at McDonalds for less than $15/hr, there's a few immigrants that will do it for minimum.[/quote]

yeah ... you try opening a mcdonalds with all mexicans or indians working in that bitch ... we'll see how long you last LOL. america is racist as fuck LOL just hearing that accent over the drive thru intercom will have you out of business in a year LOL

 

[blakfyahking]

youre the type of cat that thinks a supervisor at a company will make a certain amount of money doing their job, but if they go to school at night and actually get a degree, the next day after receiving it they can place the degree on their bosses desk and get a raise just because they have a degree, even tho they will still be performing the exact same job and have the exact same responsibilities LOL. that aint shit but an attitude of entitlement.

out of all that text, only the bolded is a meaningful statement

I agree with it, but I have to wonder how you see someone with a degree as entitled

but you don't see these other workers possessing the same entitlement mentality

at least the manager with the degree can negotiate by saying he has added knowledge/skill from attaining his degree

 

[blakfyahking]

@The -bold Nope, niggaz dont decide if a new Mcdonalds goes up on the block...

@The underlined- Poor folks are not always poor because of mistakes in life and not making good decisions. Why would the wealthy who clearly have an advantage in a class battle present a way for people in poverty to not be as vulnerable? This whole movement is the poor peoples alternative. Just seems wealthy people dont like it.

You go from "why arent (we)" to "its up to the individual."

With this mentality all slaves could have freed themselves eventually.

Corporations make money in your neighborhood they can be made to uphold certain rules of operation in your neighborhood if your community has influence and structure. If they dont like it they can choose to not operate there, yes.

so demand doesn't dictate what businesses survive and thrive in certain areas?

if niggaz stop eating that bullshit, guess what? that McD's in the hood will be gone

nah poor folks are not always poor cause of bad decisions.........but you are still being emotional

one other poster argued in this same thread that it's in a wealthy owner's best interest to help the poor not be so vulnerable so they can buy shit in this consumer economy haha

you mofos asking to raise wages don't understand that all you are asking for is inflation

and yeah even Harriet Tubman is rumored to have stated that she could have freed more slaves, if only they realized that they were slaves SMH...............but just like back in the day, self-determination is not something majority of you niggaz really want............you want someone to do shit for you

and "we" vs. "the individual" is not necessarily exclusive when I already mentioned that society is composed of individuals............in this case, you are one of the individuals are expecting others to do the stepping up..........well what happens when nobody wants to step up?

LOL @ you acting like you have the ability to influence corporations in your last sentence, but then you can't influence them in any other scenario when it comes to pay without govt intervention

Wrong, the hired goons were called Union Busters. There were unions, businesses just dont give a fuck.

you need to read up on history cause I guess you forgot how there were unions run by the Mob and all kinds of shit.......there were goons on both sides

plus you should read up on recent history how much unions such as the UAW affected the auto industry............unions are more effective than what you give them credit for

Minimum wage keeps a standard pay so that companies dont pay whatever the fuck they feel like to put it simple. Lets say an illegal immigrant is willing to take $1.50/hour for any job. Without minimum wage every company will start their wages at $1.50/hour. Even with a Union that $1.50/hour could hardly be negotiated to $2.00/Hour without the onslaught of new workers or scabs looking for work. Business ethics fail every time when businesses are not regulated by an outside entity.

so illegal immigrants aren't still working for these kind of wages today? well how effective is minimum wage really then?

Emotional because its written in Washington, or because I used the words "pursue happiness" even though its written in Washington?

like I said emotional........a lot of shit is written in Washington, so what is your point?

So you clearly are anti gay rights when it comes to religion and marriage. The Bible also says Jesus could walk on water and turn water to wine. Moses could part a whole sea. And Noah could build a boat to hold two of every animal on the planet.

Yea I know its all bullshit but do we hurt the workers across seas more from buying the product or not buying the product?

If you dont believe in the influence of media I encourage you to go research how Hitler used Propaganda to manipulate his citizens.

how did you figure the bolded when the Bible is pretty clear on what is written in its text?

just cause you want to change the definition of a hypocrite doesn't mean that the Bible somehow can be twisted to support your notion of a gay Christian.......remember you brought up that faulty example haha

and of course you hurt the workers more by buying the product...more demand obviously creates a further need to exploit more workers in the same manner to create more supply

instead of requiring companies to be ethical in their practices, you just blindly give them your money not realizing that you are just cosigning what these corporations are doing.........these corporations only exist because you give them you money bruh

and SMH @ any grown adult in 2013 allowing their most important decisions to be influenced by media........it's like you are proud of being a sheep haha

 

[blakfyahking]

I'll go ahead and leave this little bit of ether right here haha

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323392204579071011658749986.html

D.C. Mayor Vetoes 'Living Wage' Bill

Gray Calls Measure—Seen as Targeting Wal-Mart Stores—a 'Job-Killer'

WASHINGTON—Mayor Vincent Gray vetoed a City Council bill that would require large retailers in the city to pay higher wages, a measure that had drawn national attention.

Wal-Mart has tried unsuccessfully to establish stores in New York City, provoking protests from community groups, elected officials, and union workers. The retailer also sparked protests in Los Angeles when it began building a store in the Chinatown neighborhood in 2012. And in 2006, a bill similar to D.C.'s was passed by the Chicago City Council and subsequently rejected by then-Mayor Richard Daley. Wal-Mart now has multiple stores in the city.

Spoiler

In an interview, Mr. Gray called the bill a "job-killer," saying it would result in the loss of thousands of jobs in Washington. The bill would benefit a select few, he said, and would have a "chilling impact" on prospective economic development in the city.

David Neumark, a University of California, Irvine, professor and specialist in the field said some job loss is bound to occur when a "living wage" is imposed.

Wal-Mart said it would now go ahead with the stores as planned. Steven Restivo, senior director of communications at Wal-Mart, praised the mayor for "choosing jobs, economic development and common sense over special interests."

 

[Drgoo0285]

instead of requiring companies to be ethical in their practices, you just blindly give them your money not realizing that you are just cosigning what these corporations are doing.........these corporations only exist because you give them you money bruh

not entirely true... I as an individual might be able to not support something and I will boycott them, but if they are big enough and have the support of a lot of people you have really done nothing.

for 2 years of my life I refused to shop at walmart. Any and everything I bought at other places.. Then a walmart opened near my house, and everything near my house started to close. It got to the point I would look for things I needed and the only place that had them was walmart. Do I continue to boycott walmart and not be able to perches what I need, or do I bend over and just buy things I need.

Either way walmart is still going to be operating...

At that point is when I truly understood America's fucked up, and it's not going to get any better until a real depression hits.

 

[perspective@100]

so demand doesn't dictate what businesses survive and thrive in certain areas?

if niggaz stop eating that bullshit, guess what? that McD's in the hood will be gone

I hear you but, what about the education of the people within the community? You act like teachers and school boards dont try and demand money and communities dont try and filter certain businesses. Fact is, a corporation such as Mcdonalds has pull and endless money and will pop up practically wherever it wants. Most people in these areas are not educated enough to know that food is bullshit in the first place.

nah poor folks are not always poor cause of bad decisions.........but you are still being emotional

one other poster argued in this same thread that it's in a wealthy owner's best interest to help the poor not be so vulnerable so they can buy shit in this consumer economy haha

you mofos asking to raise wages don't understand that all you are asking for is inflation

@the Bold- Not my words

You being so worried about inflation is laughable. Inflation has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen, look at gas prices. The housing market and banks using predatory lending techniques whilst creating imaginary money out of thin air is more of a concern then giving Mcdonalds workers in high cost of living areas a raise and is not a real inflation factor or major concern.

I'm not emotional more like realistic...

and yeah even Harriet Tubman is rumored to have stated that she could have freed more slaves, if only they realized that they were slaves SMH......but just like back in the day, self-determination is not something majority of you niggaz really want.....you want someone to do shit for you

and "we" vs. "the individual" is not necessarily exclusive when I already mentioned that society is composed of individuals............in this case, you are one of the individuals are expecting others to do the stepping up..........well what happens when nobody wants to step up?

LOL @ you acting like you have the ability to influence corporations in your last sentence, but then you can't influence them in any other scenario when it comes to pay without govt intervention

Rumors LOL nigga please... Nigga Kunta kente realized he was a slave and got his foot cut off...

The hell are you talking about? A group of individuals are demanding higher wages but all you are doing is saying they should go fuck themselves and make their own company, lol your argument is weak... And somehow you are upset when Govt gets involved? Just in case you did not know the citizens of this country and yes those people who work shitty jobs at Mcdonalds put those officials in office by voting so if they step in and show favor to the common man then its only right as a corporation is a soul-less entity.

you need to read up on history cause I guess you forgot how there were unions run by the Mob and all kinds of shit..there were goons on both sides

Lol I know my history. The unions that the mob decided to take over were in the interest of making prices for certain products unfairly high to consumers who did not have an alternative: for example the Kosher chicken industry being under siege by Tommy Lucchese. To be a meat handler for Kosher food was usually a job handed down through generations in a family and Lucchese exploited that fact. In the end it made everyone more money.

Regardless, thats not what the subject was. The General Labor force did not have mob backing. The General Labor force was at the mercy of the employer. The General Labor force was attacked by thugs gathered by corporations in attempts to keep them divided.

plus you should read up on recent history how much unions such as the UAW affected the auto industry.....unions are more effective than what you give them credit for

Never said I was against unions.

so illegal immigrants aren't still working for these kind of wages today? well how effective is minimum wage really then?

They could be, but lets not act like minimum wage should be what an illegal immigrant should take. C'mon now I know you have more sense than that... Illegals are off Govt radar thats why they are called illegal. Corporations using them in business is just another example of why businesses should be regulated because they are unethical to human kind, period.

like I said emotional........a lot of shit is written in Washington, so what is your point?

My point is I'm not even using my own words but somehow you are saying I'm "emotional". Its not the case I'm just stating whats in our textbooks in school.

how did you figure the bolded when the Bible is pretty clear on what is written in its text?

The bible and being clear is an oxymoron.

just cause you want to change the definition of a hypocrite doesn't mean that the Bible somehow can be twisted to support your notion of a gay Christian.......remember you brought up that faulty example haha

Change the definition? No, having idealistic principles is immaterial. So in a sense a person may believe one thing wholeheartedly and talk the talk but their physical actions may not represent their true beliefs. Its a philosophical term so being hypocritical does not apply, but I do get where your coming from. Your literal interpretations of the physical world are too clear cut for modern society. For example. You say no minimum wage. So all jobs start their pay at $1.00 per hour. Then the workers cant pay bills or even put their children in school to get education. Then you say people need to start their own businesses but no one can ever save enough money to do so let alone no one would purchase products because they are too poor and the business would undoubtedly fail.

and of course you hurt the workers more by buying the product...more demand obviously creates a further need to exploit more workers in the same manner to create more supply

I dont know if you really thought this response out.

instead of requiring companies to be ethical in their practices, you just blindly give them your money not realizing that you are just cosigning what these corporations are doing.........these corporations only exist because you give them you money bruh

Not true, these corporations have found ways to tap into many different markets around the world. They have manipulated govt officials at the highest levels and corrupted many political figures. Tommy Hilfiger is not going out of business because black people stopped wearing his products. Paula Dean wont be out of business cause she out here calling niggaz nigger. Its deeper than that. There needs to be rules and regulations in place for all businesses and all corporations. Without that then they will just run rampant and Govt should assist and follow through because they are hired by the people and should be for the people.

and SMH @ any grown adult in 2013 allowing their most important decisions to be influenced by media........it's like you are proud of being a sheep haha

Like I said its all about education at the core of it all. The average person does not understand marketing techniques of logos/branding and how they use colors and sounds to manipulate your thoughts. Its not called being "sheep" its called memes. Understanding memetics would be useful if taught at an early age.

 

[Sicky Mouse]

i was going to jump in but holy shit these comments are long. fuck it.

 

[Swiffness!]

who's caping? but what you silly mofos don't realize is every negative comment/consequence you give to CEOs of fortune 500 companies also applies to small business owners as well

Oh word? So small business owners defrauded and crashed the world economy and got a check for it instead of prison time? lmao come on, I've been hearing this lie from The Right for years where ppl act like Goldman Sachs is a fuckin "small business" that needs tax cuts and less regulation.

*raekwon voice* "NIGGAZ IS GREEDY"

TL;DR version, that's why you need a MANDATORY minimum wage. Yeah sure, it'd be nice if we could do away with it and let unions take care of fair wages. It'd also be nice if we could do away with police by simply not robbing or killing each other. lol Fuck a honor system. If the people running companies like Wal-Mart had their way, they would pay their employees Bangladesh Sweatshop wages.

The minimum wage had its highest purchasing value ever in 1968, when it was $1.60 per hour ($10.64 in 2012 dollars[64]). From January 1981 to April 1990, the minimum wage was frozen at $3.35 per hour, then a record-setting wage freeze. From September 1, 1997 through July 23, 2007, the federal minimum wage remained constant at $5.15 per hour, breaking the old record.

And if the Democrats don't win the House in 2006, that bitch would STILL be at $5.15 and we'd still be hearing the same-ass arguments in this thread like "oh no you can't raise the minimum wage to $7! McDonalds will go bankrupt!"

 

[konceptjones]

Spoiler

now ... if the general consensus is that no one would work for mcdonalds for less than $15/ hour, same way no nba league veteran will play for less than 1 million a season (even tho they arent as "important" as the stars on the team), then what will mcdonalds do?? lose a bunch of customers to chick fil a and burger king or pay them the money and take home a little less profit??

For every person that says they won't work at McDonalds for less than $15/hr, there's a few immigrants that will do it for minimum.

yeah ... you try opening a mcdonalds with all mexicans or indians working in that bitch ... we'll see how long you last LOL. america is racist as fuck LOL just hearing that accent over the drive thru intercom will have you out of business in a year LOL

Pretty much every McDonalds in lily white, upper middle class to filthy rich Scottsdale, AZ is staffed with nothing but Mexicans, heavy accents and all. I worked in Scotts for nearly 7 years and the staff at the McD's across the street from the office was always Mexicans with the occasional white kid during the summer.

Try again.

 

[konceptjones]

Spoiler

You made my point all by yourself and also contradicted yourself within two sentences.

Everyone and their momma can work fast food, thus the pay is extremely low. You watch a 15minute training video in the back room and you're behind the grill.

Jobs pay well for several reasons. Two reasons are in the bolded part. Jobs pay well because of the skill required to perform a task and because of the supply of people that are trained to perform that task. There was a point in time only a few years ago where entry level IT was near McDonalds status. In 2000, I got my first professional IT job on a helpdesk

5 years later, EVERYONE jumped into IT and the glut of people that could do the work drove entry level rates down to $10/hr in some cities with desktop techs suddenly needing A+, Network+, and vendor certifications just to make $13/hr.

Too many people capable of performing a task drives the rate of pay down.

Around that same time, the viability of offering your services as a PC tech to individuals via craigslist tanked. There was once a time when I could charge a decent, fair amount of money to build and repair pc's. When the heldesk/desktop tech market was overloaded, those people flooded Craigslist and started driving the rates down there.

GOT dayum at you missing the whole point but then titangrapghing about too. i actually never contradicted myself... BUT YOU JUST DID!! LOL

"Everyone and their momma can work fast food, thus the pay is extremely low. You watch a 15minute training video in the back room and you're behind the grill."

"5 years later, EVERYONE jumped into IT and the glut of people that could do the work drove entry level rates down to $10/hr in some cities with desktop techs suddenly needing A+, Network+, and vendor certifications just to make $13/hr.

Too many people capable of performing a task drives the rate of pay down."

LOL now when this convo started off, the arguement was that fast food work was too easy to ask for high wages. now youre saying that too many ppl capable of performing a task drives the rate of pay down. i clearly stated that it does not matter how many ppl can do a job... and here's why. if it takes 40 ppl to run 3 shifts at a mcdonalds, it does not matter how hard it is to dunk fries in grease. the value in doing the job is that NOT MANY PPL ARE WILLING TO DO IT. so its a non factor that "ANYONE" could possibly do the job. by technicality, anybody can learn computer programming. computer programmers arent in as high demand as fast food workers when you go by numbers. if everybody and their mom knew java, ppl who need developers would still have to pay the going rate, the only thing that would change is that they would have more choices as to who to actually pay to develop their software. everybody and their mom has a car lot and everybody and their mom can sell a car but that does not drive the price of a bmw down.... there is still a standard going rate. in fact, you'd raise an eyebrow if the shit was too far underpriced.

its the type of job and the importance to the company that determines a salary, not how many ppl can do it or how easy it is. because there are other factors that come into play such as the conditions that the employee has to work under etc..

the real reason why IT rates went down is a number of factors. not just because a whole bunch of ppl can do help desk. the biggest factor was that companies found out that if you had a larger number of employees doing IT, the more efficient your business will be, and the less down time you have. so essentially its the same budget with more heads sharing from that same pot, so instead of one person going crazy working 60 hours to keep computers running for 100k a year, you have 4 ppl who all contribute for 25k, this makes the job easier on each person so you see that money was sacrificed for "better working conditions"... this does not apply to jobs like fast food or assembly lines. in fast food, you dont need 4 ppl dunking fries, you just need someone to man the station, but that person cant be studying for their bachelors while the fries are burning the hell up LOL. fries come with every meal so someone has to man the station...... period. the more efficient your mcdonalds location is, the more customers you can serve in a day and the more likely they are to comeback which means even more money in profit. in IT, say you work for dell, more ppl arent going to buy dell computers just because they can always access a service that you advertised as coming with the product LOL

you on some CNN propaganda type shit with your view point. its this way of thinking that allowed mcdonalds to serve more and more customers every year and get away with paying employees less and less at the same time.

you think if everyone picked up and stop working at mcdonalds right now that mcdonalds wouldnt have to offer higher pay to attract new workers?? okay then .... your point sounds good, but holds no weight. there's a reason why mcdonalds is winning, and its not that shit you talking.

youre the type of cat that thinks a supervisor at a company will make a certain amount of money doing their job, but if they go to school at night and actually get a degree, the next day after receiving it they can place the degree on their bosses desk and get a raise just because they have a degree, even tho they will still be performing the exact same job and have the exact same responsibilities LOL. that aint shit but an attitude of entitlement.

Bruh, are you even in IT??? I worked in IT in several roles for nearly two decades. I saw it first hand. IT departments haven't been growing, they've been SHRINKING with many tasks that used to be handled by a team being handled by one person now.

You got this shit all fucked up. I've seen the shit first hand. The shit you wrote doesn't happen. The only time an IT department adds staff is when they've pushed their current staff past the breaking point and shit starts falling apart.

And no, no one expects that a company will suddenly give you a raise just 'cause you got a degree. It DOES happen, like my engineering job in Scottsdale where I would actually have gotten a raise and grade bump for finishing my degree, but companies like that are very rare.

 

[konceptjones]

who's caping? but what you silly mofos don't realize is every negative comment/consequence you give to CEOs of fortune 500 companies also applies to small business owners as well

Oh word? So small business owners defrauded and crashed the world economy and got a check for it instead of prison time? lmao come on, I've been hearing this lie from The Right for years where ppl act like Goldman Sachs is a fuckin "small business" that needs tax cuts and less regulation.

*raekwon voice* "NIGGAZ IS GREEDY"

TL;DR version, that's why you need a MANDATORY minimum wage. Yeah sure, it'd be nice if we could do away with it and let unions take care of fair wages. It'd also be nice if we could do away with police by simply not robbing or killing each other. lol Fuck a honor system. If the people running companies like Wal-Mart had their way, they would pay their employees Bangladesh Sweatshop wages.

The minimum wage had its highest purchasing value ever in 1968, when it was $1.60 per hour ($10.64 in 2012 dollars[64]). From January 1981 to April 1990, the minimum wage was frozen at $3.35 per hour, then a record-setting wage freeze. From September 1, 1997 through July 23, 2007, the federal minimum wage remained constant at $5.15 per hour, breaking the old record.

And if the Democrats don't win the House in 2006, that bitch would STILL be at $5.15 and we'd still be hearing the same-ass arguments in this thread like "oh no you can't raise the minimum wage to $7! McDonalds will go bankrupt!"

I've said it before over and over in this thread. The mandatory minimum wage needs to be $9.50/hr. At that rate, it would equal or exceed the purchasing value of 1968.

 

[blakfyahking]

not entirely true... I as an individual might be able to not support something and I will boycott them, but if they are big enough and have the support of a lot of people you have really done nothing.

for 2 years of my life I refused to shop at walmart. Any and everything I bought at other places.. Then a walmart opened near my house, and everything near my house started to close. It got to the point I would look for things I needed and the only place that had them was walmart. Do I continue to boycott walmart and not be able to perches what I need, or do I bend over and just buy things I need.

Either way walmart is still going to be operating...

At that point is when I truly understood America's fucked up, and it's not going to get any better until a real depression hits.

I can respect anyone who attempts to live what they believe in

boycotting as an individual is obviously not enough......that is why more people have to be vocal and share with others the long term negative effects of supporting fucked up organizations

cats somehow managed to live without Walmart before..........why is it so difficult to do so now?