Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #2 - Notorious B.I.G

[Weazel]

Everything is 5

 

[$tayRichROLLIN]

Impact should be 5. Niggas still claiming him as the king of NY. He's been dead 20 years. If that isn't impact.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Impact should be 5. Niggas still claiming him as the king of NY. He's been dead 20 years. If that isn't impact.

Read my justification though. I'm not factoring his death into this. His death has contributed to that legendary status. Also, him being the KoNY is nice and all, but the world ain't just NY. Jay has transcended that. He's pretty much as big outside of NY as he is inside. When Biggie was alive, I don't believe he got to that level. When Biggie was alive, would you really say that he had a bigger presence than people like DMX or 50 Cent at their peaks? On top of that, you have to consider that his time at the top wasn't really that long. It was like 95/96 to 98. That's not his fault of course, but we can't just assume his position would have lasted.

 

[GetoBoy]

Most of these categories are too hard to judge off only 2 albums so I'ma just call this a "incomplete" or N/A

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Most of these categories are too hard to judge off only 2 albums so I'ma just call this a "incomplete" or N/A

Yeah, that is a real problem. But we need to have a score for Biggie. You can't rank Hip Hop artists and pass on him. So we have to do it like sports records. He's getting his number, but it's got an asterisk by it.

 

[Weazel]

Most of these categories are too hard to judge off only 2 albums so I'ma just call this a "incomplete" or N/A

That's why I rated everything with a 5

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Most of these categories are too hard to judge off only 2 albums so I'ma just call this a "incomplete" or N/A

That's why I rated everything with a 5

That's not an objective way to score. Also, a 5 means he's one of the best ever in a certain category. That's certainly not the case for categories like Subject Matter and Creativity. I don't believe he's bad in those areas, but he doesn't come close to being the best ever in those categories.

 

[Mister B.]

This is fair, but honestly, BIG's whole ranking system should be an asterisk. Not because he died, but because he only got the chance to put out two genuine albums. I'm sure if he put out four or even three, we would've gotten a definitive answer to his potential.

This is good thinking though for real ranking and insight on artists. Sucks the IC won't be around long enough to do a real sub-forum list.

 

[5 Grand]

Creativity (3) - BIG has creative shit like Suicidal Thoughts and Gimme the Loot, but the most part, he played it pretty straight with his music.

You're buggin. I Got A Story To Tell, 10 Crack Commandments, Dreams of Fuckin An R&B Bitch, Real Niggas Do Real Things plus all those R&B tracks. Not saying he was the first, but Big incorporated a lot of R&B flavor on Life After Death.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

This is fair, but honestly, BIG's whole ranking system should be an asterisk. Not because he died, but because he only got the chance to put out two genuine albums. I'm sure if he put out four or even three, we would've gotten a definitive answer to his potential.

Ok, I added asterisks to everything but Lyrics, Delivery, and Language. I think even with his limited body of work, he already managed to prove his case for those categories, and I don't think they would necessarily be affected much by growing his catalog.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Creativity (3) - BIG has creative shit like Suicidal Thoughts and Gimme the Loot, but the most part, he played it pretty straight with his music.

You're buggin. I Got A Story To Tell, 10 Crack Commandments, Dreams of Fuckin An R&B Bitch, Real Niggas Do Real Things plus all those R&B tracks. Not saying he was the first, but Big incorporated a lot of R&B flavor on Life After Death.

I Got a Story to Tell isn't a particularly creative story especially when you factor in that it was at least partially based on real events.

I'll give you 10 Crack Commandments as being creative as well as Dreams of Fuckin an R&B Bitch (even though I hate that song). I'm not really sure what's so creative about Real Niggas Do Real Things. It's just another one of his crime stories. It's very good, but not particularly creative.

I can knock it up .5 if people agree with you, but explain what's creative about him flooding his album with R&B flavor. You yourself acknowledge that collaborations between rappers and R&B artists didn't start with LAD, so what is creative about it?

 

[GetoBoy]

Lyrics (5)- one of the best there's no denying that

Delivery (4.5)- one of the best flows you'll hear he would ride beats and switch flows perfectly

Language (5)- great with wordplay again one of the best no denying that

Story Telling (N/A)- while he told great stories it's hard to judge the extent of his story telling becuz he doesn't have many examples I mean the ones he told were great but hard to rank when there aren't as many examples as others especially when we gonna get to other rappers and judge them by the extent of their story telling but the ones he told he was great at it

Catalog (N/A)- I'm sorry I can't rank a catalog off 2 albums both are classics imo but becuz you went 2 for 2 and another rapper went 7 for 10 you get a 5 while he doesn't becuz he had a couple duds??? Naw that's not a fair rating to niggas that ain't die

Subject Matter (N/A)- again only 2 albums just like catalog rating wouldn't be fair to other rappers this wouldn't be fair to Big I'm not gonna rate him low becuz he only had 2 albums I mean how many rappers had great extensive subject matter on just 2 albums?? I believe his subject matter would have grown but again it's only 2 albums

Creativity (3)- I was gonna give this the N/A treatment but just like I heard enough to tell about his lyrics I gotta clear enough view on his creativity and while that might have grown over time he wasn't the most creative rapper

Collaboration (4)- collab with greats and always held his own but the resume isn't as diverse as far as eras, regions, and genres as say a Jay so I'll give him a 4

Impact (5)- I believe his death highly increased his impact but since his passing hurt him everywhere else I'll give him the one area where it helped plus he was seen as somebody who brought a whole coast back can't under sell that

Overall score - Incomplete

While great and one of the goats not enough to give complete ratings I mean when we get to Pac at least he passed at 6 albums 2 just isn't enough

 

[Built 4 cuban linx]

Impact should be 5. Niggas still claiming him as the king of NY. He's been dead 20 years. If that isn't impact.

Read my justification though. I'm not factoring his death into this. His death has contributed to that legendary status. Also, him being the KoNY is nice and all, but the world ain't just NY. Jay has transcended that. He's pretty much as big outside of NY as he is inside. When Biggie was alive, I don't believe he got to that level. When Biggie was alive, would you really say that he had a bigger presence than people like DMX or 50 Cent at their peaks? On top of that, you have to consider that his time at the top wasn't really that long. It was like 95/96 to 98. That's not his fault of course, but we can't just assume his position would have lasted.

When it comes to big, and also Tupac, being bigger after death. I don't think it's just their death but also that they both had a major classic drop posthumously Not to long after. I personally don't think if life after death was weak and didn't have the hits it did, he would be as big. Classic posthumous work will elevate you, just like Heath Ledger with the Dark Knight

 

[THE_R_]

LYRICS (5/5): FIND ME A WACK BIGGIE VERSE. I DARE YOU!

SURE YOU'LL FIND SOME GAY SHIT, BUT NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING WACK (N/H). YOU KNOW WHAT....HIS WACKEST BAR IS "MORE GONE THAN FREEMAN" TBH. TOO MANY LACED BLUNTS IN THAT SESSION MAYBE.

DELIVERY (5/5): BIG'S DELIVERY ENHANCED HIS LYRICS.

LANGUAGE (4/5): THE WORDPLAY IS THERE, BUT THE VOCABULARY, WHILE EFFECTIVE, WAS PRETTY LIMITED.

STORYTELLING (5/5) - THE BLACK ALFRED HITCHCOCK

CATALOG (5/5): 2 OF THE MOST COPIED ALBUMS OF ALL TIME.

SUBJECT MATTER (3/5): THE BIG'S CATALOG PRETTY MUCH REVOLVES AROUND THE RAGS TO RICHES SHIT IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

CREATIVITY (4/5): THIS IS A PRETTY LOOSE TERM, B/C THERE'S CREATIVITY IN THE DELIVERY, LYRICS, AND STORY TELLING. I'LL JUST GIVE IT A 4/5 B/C THE SCOPE OF HIS TOPICS WERE PRETTY LIMITED.

COLLABORATIONS (5/5): HE'S NEVER GOT MURDERED ON HIS OWN SHIT LIKE SOME OTHER CATS, AND HE ALSO RARELY COLLAB'D. SO WHEN HE ACTUALLY COLLAB'D WITH ANOTHER ARTIST IS ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING.

*FOR THE RECORD, I DON'T THINK HE MURDERED JAY ON BK'S FINEST OR METH ON THE WHAT...THEY ALL HELD THEIR OWN.

IMPACT (5/5) - STILL THE KING OF N.Y.

 

[Lefty_]

Why U yellin cuh

 

[5 Grand]

Creativity (3) - BIG has creative shit like Suicidal Thoughts and Gimme the Loot, but the most part, he played it pretty straight with his music.

You're buggin. I Got A Story To Tell, 10 Crack Commandments, Dreams of Fuckin An R&B Bitch, Real Niggas Do Real Things plus all those R&B tracks. Not saying he was the first, but Big incorporated a lot of R&B flavor on Life After Death.

I Got a Story to Tell isn't a particularly creative story especially when you factor in that it was at least partially based on real events.

I'll give you 10 Crack Commandments as being creative as well as Dreams of Fuckin an R&B Bitch (even though I hate that song). I'm not really sure what's so creative about Real Niggas Do Real Things. It's just another one of his crime stories. It's very good, but not particularly creative.

I can knock it up .5 if people agree with you, but explain what's creative about him flooding his album with R&B flavor. You yourself acknowledge that collaborations between rappers and R&B artists didn't start with LAD, so what is creative about it?

Well generally when rappers have R&B singers singing the hook they get accused of selling out. They used to call R&B "Rap and Bullshit". I remember when LL used to make those love songs he used to get a bad rap (no pun intended). But somehow Big was able to keep his hardcore Frank White persona while making R&B tracks that girls liked. And its not only the songs from Ready to Die and Life After Death, he had a handful of collaborations like;

Can't You See by Total

Only You by 112

Buddy X by Neneh Cherry

Real Love Remix by Mary J Blige

Be Happy by R Kelly

How Many Ways by Toni Braxton

This Time Around by Michael Jackson

And of course One More Chance/Stay With Me

Without doing a google search (or putting too much thought into it) BiG may have been the first legitimate rapper with skills to balance being a gangsta rapper that could still rap on an R&B track that girls liked without losing either fan base. How many MCs can you say that about before Biggie did it? I know 2Pac had a song with Jodeci but I don't think he had anywhere near as many R&B collabs with R&B singers, although I could be mistaken.

 

[Moore7s]

I agree with everything except impact. Ill go out on a limb and say puffy&big changed the way rap is heard on the radio. The RnB format ("put a famous b**** on a hook there you go with a platinum CD") that is so popular now mostly came from bigs projects

His style, creativity and presence are all things rappers try to copy to this day.

Impact should be a 5

 

[The Lonious Monk]

LYRICS (5/5): FIND ME A WACK BIGGIE VERSE. I DARE YOU!

SURE YOU'LL FIND SOME GAY SHIT, BUT NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING WACK (N/H). YOU KNOW WHAT....HIS WACKEST BAR IS "MORE GONE THAN FREEMAN" TBH. TOO MANY LACED BLUNTS IN THAT SESSION MAYBE.

DELIVERY (5/5): BIG'S DELIVERY ENHANCED HIS LYRICS.

LANGUAGE (4/5): THE WORDPLAY IS THERE, BUT THE VOCABULARY, WHILE EFFECTIVE, WAS PRETTY LIMITED.

STORYTELLING (5/5) - THE BLACK ALFRED HITCHCOCK

CATALOG (5/5): 2 OF THE MOST COPIED ALBUMS OF ALL TIME.

SUBJECT MATTER (3/5): THE BIG'S CATALOG PRETTY MUCH REVOLVES AROUND THE RAGS TO RICHES SHIT IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

CREATIVITY (4/5): THIS IS A PRETTY LOOSE TERM, B/C THERE'S CREATIVITY IN THE DELIVERY, LYRICS, AND STORY TELLING. I'LL JUST GIVE IT A 4/5 B/C THE SCOPE OF HIS TOPICS WERE PRETTY LIMITED.

COLLABORATIONS (5/5): HE'S NEVER GOT MURDERED ON HIS OWN SHIT LIKE SOME OTHER CATS, AND HE ALSO RARELY COLLAB'D. SO WHEN HE ACTUALLY COLLAB'D WITH ANOTHER ARTIST IS ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING.

*FOR THE RECORD, I DON'T THINK HE MURDERED JAY ON BK'S FINEST OR METH ON THE WHAT...THEY ALL HELD THEIR OWN.

IMPACT (5/5) - STILL THE KING OF N.Y.

So no real fault with your scores, but I wanted to clarify something about the categories based on what you said.

For Creativity, you can consider the other categories, but ultimately it's a measure of how willing the rapper is to step outside of his or her own comfort zone and go beyond the status quo. That said, no one category should carry the score. For example, even if you have the most creative storyteller ever, he wouldn't get a 5 if he played it safe with everything else. The rapper really has to show some ability to step out on a limb in multiple areas or just generally do unexpected things.

For Collaborations, not working with many artists should be considered a knock. There shouldn't be a major detraction, but it's about body of work. A strong score in this category should reflect an artist working with a variety of other strong artists and giving a good performance beside them.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Creativity (3) - BIG has creative shit like Suicidal Thoughts and Gimme the Loot, but the most part, he played it pretty straight with his music.

You're buggin. I Got A Story To Tell, 10 Crack Commandments, Dreams of Fuckin An R&B Bitch, Real Niggas Do Real Things plus all those R&B tracks. Not saying he was the first, but Big incorporated a lot of R&B flavor on Life After Death.

I Got a Story to Tell isn't a particularly creative story especially when you factor in that it was at least partially based on real events.

I'll give you 10 Crack Commandments as being creative as well as Dreams of Fuckin an R&B Bitch (even though I hate that song). I'm not really sure what's so creative about Real Niggas Do Real Things. It's just another one of his crime stories. It's very good, but not particularly creative.

I can knock it up .5 if people agree with you, but explain what's creative about him flooding his album with R&B flavor. You yourself acknowledge that collaborations between rappers and R&B artists didn't start with LAD, so what is creative about it?

Well generally when rappers have R&B singers singing the hook they get accused of selling out. They used to call R&B "Rap and Bullshit". I remember when LL used to make those love songs he used to get a bad rap (no pun intended). But somehow Big was able to keep his hardcore Frank White persona while making R&B tracks that girls liked. And its not only the songs from Ready to Die and Life After Death, he had a handful of collaborations like;

Can't You See by Total

Only You by 112

Buddy X by Neneh Cherry

Real Love Remix by Mary J Blige

Be Happy by R Kelly

How Many Ways by Toni Braxton

This Time Around by Michael Jackson

And of course One More Chance/Stay With Me

Without doing a google search (or putting too much thought into it) BiG may have been the first legitimate rapper with skills to balance being a gangsta rapper that could still rap on an R&B track that girls liked without losing either fan base. How many MCs can you say that about before Biggie did it? I know 2Pac had a song with Jodeci but I don't think he had anywhere near as many R&B collabs with R&B singers, although I could be mistaken.

I agree with everything except impact. Ill go out on a limb and say puffy&big changed the way rap is heard on the radio. The RnB format ("put a famous b**** on a hook there you go with a platinum CD") that is so popular now mostly came from bigs projects

Let me think on this. You both make good points that I really didn't consider. I think the merging of rap and R&B is part of the reason why both genres suck right now, but I have to admit that starting that trend deserves some credit. I just need to think about whether it deserves a +.5 in Impact or a +.5 in both Impact and Creativity. I'm still having hard time seeing how throwing a singer on the hook is creative. Then again, if BIG and company did basically create a new sounds in Hip Hop, I can see how that might be considered creative. The only problem is I don't think they really created that sound. They may have just popularized it, which is still and Impact thing.

 

[270crownst]

Bigs impact is a 5+...son got every body wearing Jesus peices..and one of most sampled niggas,when it comes to rappers saying his rhymes...u have to score big from 93/94 to 97...