Official ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC THREAD

[phanatron]

What that no deity life like?

The burden of proof isn't on atheist, the burden of proof is on religion. Atheist aren't asserting anything as true, atheist are simply saying that your religion isn't true.

Think of it like this: If a person says 'A unicorn came and talked to me and then flew me to the moon'.

Who has burden of proof in this situation? Is it the person who says the unicorn flew them to the moon or is it the person who says eh, I don't really think that is true? The atheist simply looks at the evidence and finds it lacking.

 

[supaman4321]

i am a christian think of becoming a Muslims but here is my reprieve for why there is no god.

one, Jesus gospel or the new testament was written one hundred years after his death and even then they had to collect different scripts from different region and the then known world.

second, Jesus story can be compare to other little known religion before Christianity. you can even compare it to the story of Zeus.

third, if there is a god why is some many bad thing happen to good ppl and the bad people seem to live forever.
and if you say god does things for mysterious reason isn't a good answer. that basically saying you don't know.

forth, religion is a tool for ppl to be relieve when it is there time to die. it is a comfort tool to help us rest easy for death.

fifth, ppl are inherently evil and violent. religion it just a tool to help lay down some laws to help calm the violent.

i probably could think of some more but they my best try.

Alhamdullilhah for your consideration and interest in islam. if you're interested in learning or have questions some websites i would recommend are www.fiks.org/elearning/, www.islam-qa.com/en/, or you could watch videos of the deen show on youtube.

Now to your questions, the first two are problems that i myself had with Christianity i couldn't justify placing the outcome of my soul on a book that nobody even knows who wrote it that doesn't make any sense to me, and the similarities that you can see between Christianity and other pagan religions are the parts that men who followed those very pagan religions inserted about his life that he almost certainly gave no authorization to.

the third question is another good one and very valid, the world is wrought with affliction and bad deeds seem to be all you see no matter where you go but know that this life is all a test to see who is most worthy of receiving paradise and that man shall have his full reward of his deeds when he is judged, Allah states in the Qur'an what could mean:

On that Day people will come forth in separate groups that they might be shown their deeds.

So whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it.

and whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it.

(99: 6 - 8)

On religion being a tool used to alleviate from the stress on the thought of dying I agree and disagree, i agree because in a way that is true if you have an idea of what to expect of course you're going to fear less, but i also disagree because you can take the Christians for example, they are supposed to be GUARANTEED a specially reserved spot in heaven but for the most part many of them fear death and are in love with this life and hate the thought of leaving it. To me this points to a hypocrisy of the heart no matter what you may believe theistic or not deep down you know the truth, so any perceived comfort in my opinion is a facade the heart knows true peace when it receives it and when it does death is no longer anything to fear. On the contrary it is a blessing.

I don't believe people are inherently evil or violent but i do believe that people are weak and prone to give in to their desires when they don't strive to exert a little willpower, but once again the good and the bad alike will be rewarded for their deeds.

If you have any questions on Islam or any further questions such as this i'm sure they've been brought up and explained better on islam-qa but don't hesitate to ask me insha'Allah i'll be able to clear them up for you or help find the answer.

Salaam.

 

[supaman4321]

[video=youtube;wz_bbQh9dJo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_bbQh9dJo[/video]

[video=youtube;PSXLg4P08QI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSXLg4P08QI[/video]

[video=youtube;TVk7K9t-504]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVk7K9t-504[/video]

I'll try to convince the opposite

 

[phanatron]

@ Supaman,

The video you posted is so full of fallacies that the arguments that they are making could only be made to those not formally educated in philosophy and in science. What the video basically boils down is into two points:

A. The big bang, evolution can't possibly be true

B. The grand splendor of the universe points to a creator

Ultimately, this argument is a classic Design 'theory' argument. Essentially it says that the universe fits together so well that it couldn't have possibly happened by chance because otherwise we would simply have chaos upon chaos.

Without delving too deeply into the all of the ways the classic design theory has been roundly thumped, I will simply take on the principal of the 'magnificent' universe. While the people in the videos readily concede there are billions upon billions of planets, what they fail to concede is that in much of the universe, chaos does reign supreme. Supernovas and black holes are not uncommon. Planets falling out of orbit because the mass in which they revolved around no longer has the same gravitational pull. Planets colliding, white dwarf stars, asteroids that collide with planets, not to mention planets whose mass is so violent that nothing could possibly live on them. None of this points to a perfect creator, what it points to is randomness and the possibility of stability.

While we one may doubt whether science fully explains the workings of the universe (a legit doubt), that doesn't mean that religion, in particular Islam, must be true. While we are limited in our ability to analyze and understand the scope and nature of the universe, we are not limited in our ability to analyze and understand the scope and nature of religion. I may not have definite answers about how the universe was formed but I do know how religious text were formed and under what circumstances. An atheist can recognize the mysteries of the world without saying God is the answer to the mystery. Indeed, there is no mystery into the Gods that are proclaimed here.

 

[Punisher__]

You completely missed the point of this one.

LoL.

He's learning. Give him time.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

How can anybody be an atheist to begin with? In order to be truly an atheist, you would have to have TOTAL KNOWLEDGE of the world. Who in here has that?

 

[TX_Made713]

i'll give ya five dollas

ill give em 6

 

[whar67]

How can anybody be an atheist to begin with? In order to be truly an atheist, you would have to have TOTAL KNOWLEDGE of the world. Who in here has that?

I adore theist that define God by our ignorance.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

I adore theist that define God by our ignorance.

Your not a atheist Whar67. You just use that term as a cloak because you "want" to believe that there is no God.

 

[whar67]

Your not a atheist Whar67. You just use that term as a cloak because you "want" to believe that there is no God.

No I am an atheist. I have a desire to not believe in God though. You will define that desire to make my beliefs more comfortable to you while I will know that desire springs from thought, reason, and logic.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Did you know that the resurrection of Jesus Christ guarantees that you will rise from the dead again?

"20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:20-21

 

[ThaChozenWun]

Yes I knew this

 

[theillestrator]

did you know that Frylock floats in the air? i mean really.

 

[Chike]

Did you know that the resurrection of Jesus Christ guarantees that you will rise from the dead again?

"20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:20-21

______________________________________________________________

 

[Israelites]

since we all will be resurrected at that time, does that mean no one is in heaven or hell at this point? other than the GODHEAD & the Holy Angels of course...

 

[ThaChozenWun]

since we all will be resurrected at that time, does that mean no one is in heaven or hell at this point? other than the GODHEAD & the Holy Angels of course...

If we are all resurrected then yes, again another contradiction within the bible. Now some will say well hell is for those who dont believe because they dont get to come back. Then who would heaven be for?

 

[phanatron]

Did you know that the resurrection of Jesus Christ guarantees that you will rise from the dead again?

"20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:20-21

Nope, didn't know this. What should I do now?

 

[Israelites]

If we are all resurrected then yes, again another contradiction within the bible. Now some will say well hell is for those who dont believe because they dont get to come back. Then who would heaven be for?

bro. the ONLY reason people feel the bible is contradicting is because they don't UNDERSTAND the bible themselves & the people who they try to get answers from don't understand the bible....

it's one thing to read the bible but it's another thing to have UNDERSTANDING of it...

those people that say hell is for those that don't believe, they're lying...... hell is two things according to scripture (it's our living conditions & it's the grave under the earth- death is a punishment for sin, once we die we go into the ground, UNTIL the resurrection period) that's why death & hell will be placed in the lake of fire also...

The lake of fire is what everybody should want to avoid (thats the 2nd death), that's where all that don't make it into the kingdom of the Father will be (which it will be on earth & not in heaven)... see bro, you getting a lot of your answers from people that have no clue what the bible is saying, all they see is what they read... but even the Word tells us get UNDERSTANDING, once you do your research & put the scriptures together, everything will make sense.

everybody NOT doing the will of the father will be in the lake of fire, including these hypocrite christians, they speak w/their mouth but their actions are far from the LORD!

Revelation 20:14 (King James Version)

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death

Revelation 21:7-9 (King James Version)

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

since we all will be resurrected at that time, does that mean no one is in heaven or hell at this point? other than the GODHEAD & the Holy Angels of course...

Question: "What happens after death?"

Answer: Within the Christian faith, there is a significant amount of confusion regarding what happens after death. Some hold that after death, everyone “sleeps” until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary” heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. So, what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

Nope, didn't know this. What should I do now?

"repent ye, and believe the gospel." Mark 1:15