IC court question: Is it feminism or lack of moral guidance

[Westie]

Lol y'all are really blurring the lines. Are you mad women have actual equal rights or that there aren't enough bitches in the kitchen?

 

[7figz]

I'm cool with equal rights but some a lot of y'all be on some next shit -

cool with being equal but also cool with having a man trick on y'all and be obligated to support a grown ass woman.

That's somebody's choice though. I know women who would never take a dime from a man. I don't see how that has anything to do with feminism. That is about personal relationships.

When it's somebody's personal decision to put a woman on a pedestal (or whatever) in a relationship, that's they biz but when laws treat relationships / marriages / families as such, then it's a problem. For instance, some dude might believe in his wife not working and then paying spousal support when they divorce and that shit is bogus to me so if I get divorced, I don't want some bitch ass judge / laws telling me I gotta live by that shit.

When I see a woman claim feminist and then support double-standards that benefit them more then I question their motivation - do they want "equality" or just to get over ?

The thing is, spousal support has nothing to do with feminism. Men receive spousal support when the woman is the primary breadwinner. Feminism has nothing to do with that shit.

I kind of understand what you mean by the bolded but I somehow feel like there's a loose relation between the 2 - maybe they're opposites and the law shouldn't be involved in it ? From a male point of view, I feel like it's not much of a way to come out on without a financial L in a divorce based on laws, short of marrying a chick making a ton more money just to offset the bias of the law.

Shit may be more biased against y'all in other areas - not denying but in that area, y'all got the win.

For instance if men and women were equal (a tenet of feminism), I don't think there would be any law regarding spousal support. The only reason it probably exists is because traditionally men supported women, so it's an attempt to compensate for that tradition. Picture men having said, "I've become accustomed to the lifestyle...." if it never happened for women first ?

It's like men claiming abuse, or rape - nobody ain't takin' that shit seriously. (I probably digressed)

 

[7figz]

Lol y'all are really blurring the lines. Are you mad women have actual equal rights or that there aren't enough bitches in the kitchen?

I'm perfectly cool with equal rights. I'm guessing most dudes are.

 

[Westie]

I'm cool with equal rights but some a lot of y'all be on some next shit -

cool with being equal but also cool with having a man trick on y'all and be obligated to support a grown ass woman.

That's somebody's choice though. I know women who would never take a dime from a man. I don't see how that has anything to do with feminism. That is about personal relationships.

When it's somebody's personal decision to put a woman on a pedestal (or whatever) in a relationship, that's they biz but when laws treat relationships / marriages / families as such, then it's a problem. For instance, some dude might believe in his wife not working and then paying spousal support when they divorce and that shit is bogus to me so if I get divorced, I don't want some bitch ass judge / laws telling me I gotta live by that shit.

When I see a woman claim feminist and then support double-standards that benefit them more then I question their motivation - do they want "equality" or just to get over ?

The thing is, spousal support has nothing to do with feminism. Men receive spousal support when the woman is the primary breadwinner. Feminism has nothing to do with that shit.

I kind of understand what you mean by the bolded but I somehow feel like there's a loose relation between the 2 - maybe they're opposites and the law shouldn't be involved in it ? From a male point of view, I feel like it's not much of a way to come out on without a financial L in a divorce based on laws, short of marrying a chick making a ton more money just to offset the bias of the law.

Shit may be more biased against y'all in other areas - not denying but in that area, y'all got the win.

For instance if men and women were equal (a tenet of feminism), I don't think there would be any law regarding spousal support. The only reason it probably exists is because traditionally men supported women, so it's an attempt to compensate for that tradition. Picture men having said, "I've become accustomed to the lifestyle...." if it never happened for women first ?

It's like men claiming abuse, or rape - nobody ain't takin' that shit seriously. (I probably digressed)

Regarding spousal support, I do see the necessity for it. If people are married for a long time, and one person stays home while the other one is the breadwinner, and that is their agreement, just throwing someone out and leaving them broke and desolate when you agreed to take care of that person for the rest of their life is a little unfair. in a relationship, no one is 100% equal, you try to maintain the balance of give-and-take but usually one contributes more than the other in some way, shape or form . If that's the financial aspect of your relationship, i can see why the courts take that into consideration. But that's my opinion, and again, not really having to do with feminism. These laws have been changed over time, though. Maybe feminism has a little to do with that?

In regards to sexual abuse, I understand what you are saying because there is a double standard when it comes to women and sexual abuse and men and sexual abuse, as in there is a more sympathetic ear to it when it's a woman. However, think of what just happened with Afrika Bambaataa. Do you recall anyone saying those men were lying? When a group of women come out that is the number one thing that a lot of people say. (i'm not going to get into Bill Cosby I don't want to relive that discussion, but you know what I mean). Men are looked at more to suck it up, which fucking sucks and I think it needs to change. But in the same vein, women are looked at more along the lines as they ask for it, they're lying, etc. There are double standards on both ends and both can be harmful. This doesn't really have much to do with feminism more along the lines of societal gender roles.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Imo being a woman is about essence, and the essence of woman comes in many forms. Women being able to vote and get the same pay and pay half for shit etc shouldn't be a bearing on that essence. You can be rigid af but the sexiest woman ever.. cuz her essence is feminine, and she is respected for it. That is what I think is being lost in feminism; the essence of woman, and we really need more of it.

I thought Essence magazine was only for Black women ? Don't do your white sistren like that.

Nah I'm fuckin' wit you. Are you saying that feminism is killing y'all femininity ?

Yes I think it is inadvertently ruining our essence.

 

[7figz]

I'm cool with equal rights but some a lot of y'all be on some next shit -

cool with being equal but also cool with having a man trick on y'all and be obligated to support a grown ass woman.

That's somebody's choice though. I know women who would never take a dime from a man. I don't see how that has anything to do with feminism. That is about personal relationships.

When it's somebody's personal decision to put a woman on a pedestal (or whatever) in a relationship, that's they biz but when laws treat relationships / marriages / families as such, then it's a problem. For instance, some dude might believe in his wife not working and then paying spousal support when they divorce and that shit is bogus to me so if I get divorced, I don't want some bitch ass judge / laws telling me I gotta live by that shit.

When I see a woman claim feminist and then support double-standards that benefit them more then I question their motivation - do they want "equality" or just to get over ?

The thing is, spousal support has nothing to do with feminism. Men receive spousal support when the woman is the primary breadwinner. Feminism has nothing to do with that shit.

I kind of understand what you mean by the bolded but I somehow feel like there's a loose relation between the 2 - maybe they're opposites and the law shouldn't be involved in it ? From a male point of view, I feel like it's not much of a way to come out on without a financial L in a divorce based on laws, short of marrying a chick making a ton more money just to offset the bias of the law.

Shit may be more biased against y'all in other areas - not denying but in that area, y'all got the win.

For instance if men and women were equal (a tenet of feminism), I don't think there would be any law regarding spousal support. The only reason it probably exists is because traditionally men supported women, so it's an attempt to compensate for that tradition. Picture men having said, "I've become accustomed to the lifestyle...." if it never happened for women first ?

It's like men claiming abuse, or rape - nobody ain't takin' that shit seriously. (I probably digressed)

Regarding spousal support, I do see the necessity for it. If people are married for a long time, and one person stays home while the other one is the breadwinner, and that is their agreement, just throwing someone out and leaving them broke and desolate when you agreed to take care of that person for the rest of their life is a little unfair. in a relationship, no one is 100% equal, you try to maintain the balance of give-and-take but usually one contributes more than the other in some way, shape or form . If that's the financial aspect of your relationship, i can see why the courts take that into consideration. But that's my opinion, and again, not really having to do with feminism. These laws have been changed over time, though. Maybe feminism has a little to do with that?

In regards to sexual abuse, I understand what you are saying because there is a double standard when it comes to women and sexual abuse and men and sexual abuse, as in there is a more sympathetic ear to it when it's a woman. However, think of what just happened with Afrika Bambaataa. Do you recall anyone saying those men were lying? When a group of women come out that is the number one thing that a lot of people say. (i'm not going to get into Bill Cosby I don't want to relive that discussion, but you know what I mean). Men are looked at more to suck it up, which fucking sucks and I think it needs to change. But in the same vein, women are looked at more along the lines as they ask for it, they're lying, etc. There are double standards on both ends and both can be harmful. This doesn't really have much to do with feminism more along the lines of societal gender roles.

Ok, I can dig that, though I'm obviously not a proponent of spousal support - I'd still respect someone else's agreement to have a relationship on those terms just wouldn't want it pushed onto my relationship since I don't think like that.

So give me an example of the opponents of feminism ? In what ways do people not want y'all to be treated equally ?

 

[zzombie]

i will start with the lack of moral guidance is to blame.

people allow there morals to go out the window for some entertainment when we have so many other sources to entertain us.

we are slowly moving to an era where the running man will be a every day thing and with a bloodthirst lust for more with take us over.

the purge will be voted for and loved ones lost all for entertainment.

now people have their problems and should fight it out once in a blue but things are getting to the point people want blood just because.

our ladies have no more shame when acting unlady like and we as men are ok with it. why.... its not because of feminism... its because of the lack of morals, lack of fatherly guidance telling his lil girl to act like a lady at all times, or a mother saying "don't let a botch pull you out of character".



now everything is knock a hoe out.

and do we not promote such behavior by ignoring it by saying smash on the ass rather than breaking up the fight.

are we that desensitized to acts of violence from ourselves that we are ok with our women doing it.

we all have sisters, cousins, mother, aunts or nieces that can be hurt. my homie @BOSSExcellence has inventory that can be damaged.

this we can not blame on the feminist nor the feminist movement. they type of behavior starts at home.

*steps away from soapbox*

That is a result of feminism. THE importance of men and manhood has been degraded, feminism teaches that women don't really need men and that females can provide all the guidance that a child needs. Why tell a little girl to act like a lady when the goal is to demolish gender roles??? thus making women equal to men in all respects.

The feminist movement is already in the home it's deeply embedded into the culture and today has very little resistance because people no longer understand it's results some still think it's about ensuring female legal rights.

but is it because of the broken family structure do to some dude leaving the woman behind to raise kids. now while a woman can raise kids.....there still needs to be the overall authority figure in the household. i refuse to beleive may women can provide love, nurturing and be an authoritarian. some where she will be weak and usually its the latter. trying to make up for the no good nigga that wasnt there.

those kids have a high chance to turn out wreckless as their kids have a high chance to turn out wreckless.

so would this be the case with a strong male figure in the household. one strong male has a high chance to breed another and so forth.

just like a strong male with instill morals and its a high chance the child will tkae them thru life and pass them onto their kids.

There has always been broken families but there were not as prevalent in the past... today 70% of black children are born out of wedlock the question is why??? what has changed in society to cause this??? THE family structure is broken the question is what broke it ??? my answer is social and cultural change and at the forefront of changing the relationship dynamics between males and females is feminism. Some people like @desertrain10 would blame racism or poverty but those things have always existed and we did not have this disgustingly highly illegitimacy rate.

to create the ideal individual that can thrive in this society a mother and father is required NOT SINGLE PARENTS OR SAME SEX PARENTS.

i agree with that ...so your say the govt assisting ladies ...helping them hold their head high makes them say fukk a man.

is it the govt thats making them say that or is it the lack of moral and guidance.

The lack of morality in children comes from bad family life, bad family life comes from disrespect of the husband/wife role and mother/ father role. Men don't respect women and women don't respect men therefore the children are lost these children had children and here we are today.

the government just supports bad behavior

 

[zzombie]

So everyone who is saying that feminism is so bad, let's make this clear, y'all want women to have less rights than men? As of what? You don't want us to vote? What rights don't you want us to have?

Women already have all the rights of men. Feminism went beyond a legal rights a long time ago

 

[zzombie]

If you consider women showing their thighs and voting a sign of moral decline, there is a case to be made that feminism has been a bad thing for this country

However if like myself you believe that morality is primarily how we treat each other, we as country, planet are on a steady incline

Violence has been declining. There is less race hatred, less religious turmoil and less genocide

More work to be done.... but just looking at how young ppl have been showing so much compassion and focus on how others are treated with initiatives such as BLM we are headed for better days

On the long timeline of history we are in decline violence has only been going down since the late 90's. Young people are generally naive and foolish . when they get older and see life as it really is they change . unfortunately they fuck the world up in the meantime with their idealistic bullshit.

What do you think happened to those hippies??

 

[7figz]

Imo being a woman is about essence, and the essence of woman comes in many forms. Women being able to vote and get the same pay and pay half for shit etc shouldn't be a bearing on that essence. You can be rigid af but the sexiest woman ever.. cuz her essence is feminine, and she is respected for it. That is what I think is being lost in feminism; the essence of woman, and we really need more of it.

I thought Essence magazine was only for Black women ? Don't do your white sistren like that.

Nah I'm fuckin' wit you. Are you saying that feminism is killing y'all femininity ?

Yes I think it is inadvertently ruining our essence.

Interesting. How so ?

 

[deadeye]

Lol y'all are really blurring the lines. Are you mad women have actual equal rights or that there aren't enough bitches in the kitchen?

@Westie

Either you're trolling or oblivious to what's been discussed.

No one in here has said anything about opposing equal rights, equal pay, voting rights, etc.

You mentioned "actual" feminism earlier, but that's not what's being discussed here.

It's "radical" feminism that's the problem.

For some reason, mainstream feminists don't seem to be willing to acknowledge the fact that the most vocal elements of the feminist movement are radicals.

And most of these radicals are male-bashing lesbians who have a vitriolic hatred for anything having to do with men.

If more mainstream feminists would speak out against this foolishness, then there probably wouldn't be the perception that these radicals speak for the entire movement.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Imo being a woman is about essence, and the essence of woman comes in many forms. Women being able to vote and get the same pay and pay half for shit etc shouldn't be a bearing on that essence. You can be rigid af but the sexiest woman ever.. cuz her essence is feminine, and she is respected for it. That is what I think is being lost in feminism; the essence of woman, and we really need more of it.

I thought Essence magazine was only for Black women ? Don't do your white sistren like that.

Nah I'm fuckin' wit you. Are you saying that feminism is killing y'all femininity ?

Yes I think it is inadvertently ruining our essence.

Interesting. How so ?

Because we are fighting like men to be more like men.

 

[Westie]

Lol y'all are really blurring the lines. Are you mad women have actual equal rights or that there aren't enough bitches in the kitchen?

@Westie

Either you're trolling or oblivious to what's been discussed.

No one in here has said anything about opposing equal rights, equal pay, voting rights, etc.

You mentioned "actual" feminism earlier, but that's not what's being discussed here.

It's "radical" feminism that's the problem.

For some reason, mainstream feminists don't seem to be willing to acknowledge the fact that the most vocal elements of the feminist movement are radicals.

And most of these radicals are male-bashing lesbians who have a vitriolic hatred for anything having to do with men.

If more mainstream feminists would speak out against this foolishness, then there probably wouldn't be the perception that these radicals speak for the entire movement.

I'm not oblivious nor am I trolling. It's crazy how some people have a blind spot when it comes to women. would you expect a Black Liberation movement supporter to speak out against black Israelites? That's the thing, you guys are blaming feminism for problems that have nothing to do with feminism. So are you oblivious to that? Because this was the topic at hand, this was the question.

So many men on the site hate feminism and talk all this shit about feminists, when the core of feminism is only support of equal rights for women. You can't blame feminism for extremists. And not all feminists are crazy misandrists. You're painting with way too broad of a brush.

 

[deadeye]

@Kai

What's your perspective on this?

 

[Westie]

@deadeye what are we saying is unreasonable about these "radical feminists"? What are the ideals that bother you?

 

[7figz]

Imo being a woman is about essence, and the essence of woman comes in many forms. Women being able to vote and get the same pay and pay half for shit etc shouldn't be a bearing on that essence. You can be rigid af but the sexiest woman ever.. cuz her essence is feminine, and she is respected for it. That is what I think is being lost in feminism; the essence of woman, and we really need more of it.

I thought Essence magazine was only for Black women ? Don't do your white sistren like that.

Nah I'm fuckin' wit you. Are you saying that feminism is killing y'all femininity ?

Yes I think it is inadvertently ruining our essence.

Interesting. How so ?

Because we are fighting like men to be more like men.

GOAT'd because that's some poetic shit.

 

[desertrain10]

And I find it very interesting that blk households are continuously compared to non blk households and continue to be found lacking

Especially since the days of slavery we have been systematically oppressed and denied any formal family structure....not allowed to marry...children, siblings, the other "partner" sold away from each other...the poor punished for marrying

Yet, somehow, between 1865 and 1965 there is supposed to have been this great deterioration of the nuclear blk family with feminism being the catalyst??? If that is the case, when was the heyday of this blk family?

From what I've researched our families never looked like that of the Beavers. And since the days of slavery blk women in america have always had to take on the traditional role and responsibilities of men as a matter of survival

The reason why Blk women were drawn to feminism in the first place was because they didn't have the same rights and the same economic opportunities as their male counterparts making them incapable of helping to fulfill these roles adequately...which in many cases meant living in extreme poverty

Violence and crime in America did spike to supposedly historic level within the last 60 yrs or so, however generally speaking that has always been the case following economic recessions. Its been on a steady decline. And are we going to seriously argue it was feminism and not the introduction of illegal yet highly addictive drugs into our neighborhoods are to blame. Not to mention guns, particularly automatic weapons, becoming more accessible naturally made matters worst

That said, the ills we see in places like Chicago and Detroit are the cumulative effect of centuries of structural racism, marginalization and failed government policy that keeps the residents trapped in poverty

 

[desertrain10]

In regards to illegitimacy....

It does not cause poverty or crime. At least not in a big way. Blk illegitimacy has gone through the roof since 1960, yet crime has been up and down, while poverty has dropped in half

Illegitimacy is not a sign of moral decline...the birth rate among unmarried blk women has been dropping since the early 90s... meaning that they are acting more responsibly, not less. The biggest reason the illegitimacy rate goes up is because the birth rate among married blk women has been dropping even faster, something that has been going on since the 50s

Plus illegitimate birth tells you nothing about whether the mother lives with the father or gets married later, just as a legitimate birth tells you nothing about divorce, separation or incarceration

I do believe fatherlessness is a serious issue, but whites racialize the issue and then use it to deny the existence of structural racism

Then prescribing marriage and treating these ills with culture based solutions is like putting a bandaid over a bullet wound

 

[deadeye]

@deadeye what are we saying is unreasonable about these "radical feminists"? What are the ideals that bother you?

@Westie

Truly "radical" feminists rarely mention anything specifically pertaining to equal rights, equal pay, the right to vote, or anything of that nature.

For the most part, they only express anger and hostility towards men.

Granted, this is probably due to them having been sexually abused and/or raped at some point in their lives.

The problem comes in when this past trauma permeates all of their feminist views to the point where it's no longer about equality for them......but about holding all men accountable for the pain they experienced in the past.

That's primarily what I take exception to.

 

[Westie]

@deadeye what are we saying is unreasonable about these "radical feminists"? What are the ideals that bother you?

@Westie

Truly "radical" feminists rarely mention anything specifically pertaining to equal rights, equal pay, the right to vote, or anything of that nature.

For the most part, they only express anger and hostility towards men.

Granted, this is probably due to them having been sexually abused and/or raped at some point in their lives.

The problem comes in when this past trauma permeates all of their feminist views to the point where it's no longer about equality for them......but about holding all men accountable for the pain they experienced in the past.

That's primarily what I take exception to.

I'm trying to understand what their causes are though. Is it just like general call for what they think needs justice in instances of harrassment/abuse/misogyny that you're referring to? Or are you talking about Twitter rants?