Carlos Santana: Beyonce's Not a Singer

[desertrain10]

Also, something y'all forget: These awards are voted on by other artists and industry types. The criteria for becoming a voting member of the academy isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially now that they accept artists that are digitally released instead of demanding a physical release. Shit, if I sat down and put in the work, by the end of the year I could be a voting member.

What other artists view as a good album vs what the people view as a good album are going to be different. You're being judged by your peers when you get that Grammy nod. A cat that sold 50K copies of an album that was incredibly good has just as good a chance as getting a nomination, if not a win as someone that sold 4 million. This has happened numerous times, with the most memorable (to me anyways) being The Foreign Exchange being nominated for Best Urban/Alternative Performance for their song "Daykeeper" against not only Beyonce herself, but also Solange that year.

the voters are predominantly old and/or white

also i'd like to think their (e.g. artists, musicians, song writers, etc) taste/ear for music would be a bit more sophisticated

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year so I dunno

Typically it is more sophisticated; that's why she lost. Adele's album was more appreciated by those with an ear for it. While y'all might not like it, from an artist's perspective it was simply better.

lol

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year

and i will never concede or understand 1985 being the better album

everything is subjective I guess....

but it also seems as if there is some cultural bias that exist

Did you really believe an album that is unabashedly black would be out a beloved Becky?

no... lol

@konceptjones

but seems to be making the argument adele simply had the had the better album from an artist's perspective

and us non musician folk who feel as though the voters may be a bit biased wouldn't understand

 

[Already Home_17]

Also, something y'all forget: These awards are voted on by other artists and industry types. The criteria for becoming a voting member of the academy isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially now that they accept artists that are digitally released instead of demanding a physical release. Shit, if I sat down and put in the work, by the end of the year I could be a voting member.

What other artists view as a good album vs what the people view as a good album are going to be different. You're being judged by your peers when you get that Grammy nod. A cat that sold 50K copies of an album that was incredibly good has just as good a chance as getting a nomination, if not a win as someone that sold 4 million. This has happened numerous times, with the most memorable (to me anyways) being The Foreign Exchange being nominated for Best Urban/Alternative Performance for their song "Daykeeper" against not only Beyonce herself, but also Solange that year.

the voters are predominantly old and/or white

also i'd like to think their (e.g. artists, musicians, song writers, etc) taste/ear for music would be a bit more sophisticated

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year so I dunno

Typically it is more sophisticated; that's why she lost. Adele's album was more appreciated by those with an ear for it. While y'all might not like it, from an artist's perspective it was simply better.

based on this logic, 1985 was better than TPAB from an "artists perspective"

the grammys lost credibility a long time ago. i dont know why people still get all up in arms about this shit

 

[texas409]

niggas really are Beyonce' groupies I see.....

 

[JokerzWyld]

Beyoncé can sing. Singing is the the only contribution she makes. She doesn't write, choreograph, or produce. That limits her as an artist, but not a singer.

She co-writes a lot

She receives co-writer credits for ad-libs.

 

[TheNuttinProffessor]

Beyoncé raw as hell

Beyoncé fans are not

 

[desertrain10]

Also, something y'all forget: These awards are voted on by other artists and industry types. The criteria for becoming a voting member of the academy isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially now that they accept artists that are digitally released instead of demanding a physical release. Shit, if I sat down and put in the work, by the end of the year I could be a voting member.

What other artists view as a good album vs what the people view as a good album are going to be different. You're being judged by your peers when you get that Grammy nod. A cat that sold 50K copies of an album that was incredibly good has just as good a chance as getting a nomination, if not a win as someone that sold 4 million. This has happened numerous times, with the most memorable (to me anyways) being The Foreign Exchange being nominated for Best Urban/Alternative Performance for their song "Daykeeper" against not only Beyonce herself, but also Solange that year.

the voters are predominantly old and/or white

also i'd like to think their (e.g. artists, musicians, song writers, etc) taste/ear for music would be a bit more sophisticated

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year so I dunno

Typically it is more sophisticated; that's why she lost. Adele's album was more appreciated by those with an ear for it. While y'all might not like it, from an artist's perspective it was simply better.

lol

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year

and i will never concede or understand 1985 being the better album

everything is subjective I guess....

but it also seems as if there is some cultural bias that exist

The bold goes without saying. This is still a majority white country. Did you really believe an album that is unabashedly black would be out a beloved Becky?

Stevie Wonder beat out Bette Midler and Paul Simon in '74

Stevie Wonder beat out John Denver, Paul McCartney, Elton John, and Joni Mitchell in '75

Stevie Wonder beat out Chicago, Peter Frampton, and Boz Skaggs in '77.

Michael Jackson beat out David Bowie, Billy Joel, and The Police in '84

Lionel Ritchie beat out Cyndi Lauper and Bruce Springsteen in '85

Quincy Jones beat out Phil Collins and Wilson Phillips in '91

Natalie Cole beat out Amy Grant, Bonnie Raitt, R.E.M., and Paul Simon in '92

Lauryn Hill beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Garbage, and Shania Twain in '99

c'mon now y'all...

only 10 blk artist have ever been nominated for the award

and only 13 out of 59 times have a blk artist been nominated for the award

 

[soul rattler]

I see what he's saying. I think he's wrong in saying that Beyonce can't sing. She can and has made songs where she sang sang. However, I think what he's really getting at is that that's not really the appeal of her music. Her actually singing ability isn't really what sells her album. Her more recent work in particular is evidence of this. Some of the songs, she's even delved into that singy rappy bullshit that's popular nowadays.

Here's the thing, you can't point to her pop songs and ignore her ballads just to be able to say she can't sing or has bad music.

For every "7/11", there's a "Dangerously In Love".

Why are black artists the only ones shamed for being versatile? Let her be great.

 

[blackrain]

Also, something y'all forget: These awards are voted on by other artists and industry types. The criteria for becoming a voting member of the academy isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially now that they accept artists that are digitally released instead of demanding a physical release. Shit, if I sat down and put in the work, by the end of the year I could be a voting member.

What other artists view as a good album vs what the people view as a good album are going to be different. You're being judged by your peers when you get that Grammy nod. A cat that sold 50K copies of an album that was incredibly good has just as good a chance as getting a nomination, if not a win as someone that sold 4 million. This has happened numerous times, with the most memorable (to me anyways) being The Foreign Exchange being nominated for Best Urban/Alternative Performance for their song "Daykeeper" against not only Beyonce herself, but also Solange that year.

the voters are predominantly old and/or white

also i'd like to think their (e.g. artists, musicians, song writers, etc) taste/ear for music would be a bit more sophisticated

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year so I dunno

Typically it is more sophisticated; that's why she lost. Adele's album was more appreciated by those with an ear for it. While y'all might not like it, from an artist's perspective it was simply better.

based on this logic, 1985 was better than TPAB from an "artists perspective"

the grammys lost credibility a long time ago. i dont know why people still get all up in arms about this shit

Because as much as people say these awards don't matter to them clearly they do matter to have this reaction from fans...

 

[soul rattler]

Not the first musician ive heard say this(rumor has it prince said the same)

They must got sensitive dog hearing cause she sounds like she can sing to me

Wtf am i missing

Beyonce is good at yelling into the mic. That's what her "singing" amounts to.

It's like Madonna vs Cyndi Lauper or Britney Spears vs Christina Aguilera. One can sing a bit and is entertaining to watch because of their showmanship, the other can SANG and hold it down without anything else happening.

Beyonce's voice is largely atonal, there's no real range there, just loudness and runs. She could never hold a candle to a Sade, Anita Baker, Roberta Flack or the like. What she does passes for singing these days because she's got a strong promo team behind her and money to keep her records in rotation.

so you posted her singing largely atonally and getting loud to back me up?

In case you missed it, as soon as she tried to get out of her range her voice cracked, this happens several times in the video. So instead of going for range she went for volume, which is her typical fallback.

Beyonce is an ok singer; nothing special really. Truth be told her sister is a far better singer.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

LOL @ Solange being a better singer

 

[fortyacres]

Cant believe nigga outchea caping for some fat white chick from Britain over a more talented Black woman.... Oh wait this is the IC...

 

[soul rattler]

Beyonce is in that Aaliyah class of singer/entertainer with a heavy emphasis on entertainer. The same as Michael Jackson.

A SINGER though? Different category. Jill Scott, Marsha Ambrosius and the like are SINGERS. They sell song, not song, dance and costume changes.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just think its a difference.

This is factually incorrect. You've never heard Aaliyah or even Michael Jackson sing the way Beyonce does.

Any singer without the anti-Beyonce bias will tell you most mainstream R&B vocalists aren't doing anything Beyonce hasn't done vocally.

"But but but she dances and made Bootylicious!"

 

[konceptjones]

Also, something y'all forget: These awards are voted on by other artists and industry types. The criteria for becoming a voting member of the academy isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially now that they accept artists that are digitally released instead of demanding a physical release. Shit, if I sat down and put in the work, by the end of the year I could be a voting member.

What other artists view as a good album vs what the people view as a good album are going to be different. You're being judged by your peers when you get that Grammy nod. A cat that sold 50K copies of an album that was incredibly good has just as good a chance as getting a nomination, if not a win as someone that sold 4 million. This has happened numerous times, with the most memorable (to me anyways) being The Foreign Exchange being nominated for Best Urban/Alternative Performance for their song "Daykeeper" against not only Beyonce herself, but also Solange that year.

the voters are predominantly old and/or white

also i'd like to think their (e.g. artists, musicians, song writers, etc) taste/ear for music would be a bit more sophisticated

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year so I dunno

Typically it is more sophisticated; that's why she lost. Adele's album was more appreciated by those with an ear for it. While y'all might not like it, from an artist's perspective it was simply better.

lol

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year

and i will never concede or understand 1985 being the better album

everything is subjective I guess....

but it also seems as if there is some cultural bias that exist

Did you really believe an album that is unabashedly black would be out a beloved Becky?

no... lol

@konceptjones

but seems to be making the argument adele simply had the had the better album from an artist's perspective

and us non musician folk who feel as though the voters may be a bit biased wouldn't understand

Kinda, yes. "Best album" encompasses all aspects of the recording process; not just the vocals. Songwriting, production, composition, arrangement, and the recording/engineering itself. Most of this is stuff non-musicians aren't really aware of.

Ever know a musician that played in a Jazz band? Ever listen to them when they hear a new piece of music?

"Ok, yeah they're using a Lydian Dominant Scale for each chord in the progression blah, blah, blah musical shit, blah, blah, blah..."

It's kind of like that.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Stevie Wonder beat out Bette Midler and Paul Simon in '74

Stevie Wonder beat out John Denver, Paul McCartney, Elton John, and Joni Mitchell in '75

Stevie Wonder beat out Chicago, Peter Frampton, and Boz Skaggs in '77.

Michael Jackson beat out David Bowie, Billy Joel, and The Police in '84

Lionel Ritchie beat out Cyndi Lauper and Bruce Springsteen in '85

Quincy Jones beat out Phil Collins and Wilson Phillips in '91

Natalie Cole beat out Amy Grant, Bonnie Raitt, R.E.M., and Paul Simon in '92

Lauryn Hill beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Garbage, and Shania Twain in '99

c'mon now y'all...

I didn't say that black people never beat out white people. I said an unabashedly black album, meaning TPAB was meant specifically for black people. Some whites and others liked it, but there was no question that the album was for us. That kinda album wasn't going to beat out one of the media princesses.

I see what he's saying. I think he's wrong in saying that Beyonce can't sing. She can and has made songs where she sang sang. However, I think what he's really getting at is that that's not really the appeal of her music. Her actually singing ability isn't really what sells her album. Her more recent work in particular is evidence of this. Some of the songs, she's even delved into that singy rappy bullshit that's popular nowadays.

Here's the thing, you can't point to her pop songs and ignore her ballads just to be able to say she can't sing or has bad music.

For every "7/11", there's a "Dangerously In Love".

Why are black artists the only ones shamed for being versatile? Let her be great.

I know. I made the same exact point in the post you quoted. Still which ones conclude to her fame and popularity more, the pop songs or the ballads?

Stop with the black pity party. No one is shaming Beyonce for being versatile. Santana was just pointing out that Adele relies more on her singing ability for her fame than Beyonce does. If you value singing ability more than the rest of that shit, it makes perfect sense to see Adele as the better artist. That's not to say that you can't make the argument that Beyonce is a better singer, but clearly Santana doesn't think that and it's just his opinion. I personally prefer Adele's music, but think Beyonce is better than her in pretty much every category. Who is more deserving of what accolade is not as cut and dry and some would imply.

 

[MECCA1000]

ive never seen Beyonce restart a live performance

#Facts

Fell down some stairs ..... kept singing

Hair caught in a fan .... kept singing

Crazy fan tried to snatch her off stage ...... kept singing

She gives you every bit of what you paid for them tickets, that's for sure

 

[konceptjones]

Also, something y'all forget: These awards are voted on by other artists and industry types. The criteria for becoming a voting member of the academy isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially now that they accept artists that are digitally released instead of demanding a physical release. Shit, if I sat down and put in the work, by the end of the year I could be a voting member.

What other artists view as a good album vs what the people view as a good album are going to be different. You're being judged by your peers when you get that Grammy nod. A cat that sold 50K copies of an album that was incredibly good has just as good a chance as getting a nomination, if not a win as someone that sold 4 million. This has happened numerous times, with the most memorable (to me anyways) being The Foreign Exchange being nominated for Best Urban/Alternative Performance for their song "Daykeeper" against not only Beyonce herself, but also Solange that year.

the voters are predominantly old and/or white

also i'd like to think their (e.g. artists, musicians, song writers, etc) taste/ear for music would be a bit more sophisticated

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year so I dunno

Typically it is more sophisticated; that's why she lost. Adele's album was more appreciated by those with an ear for it. While y'all might not like it, from an artist's perspective it was simply better.

lol

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year

and i will never concede or understand 1985 being the better album

everything is subjective I guess....

but it also seems as if there is some cultural bias that exist

The bold goes without saying. This is still a majority white country. Did you really believe an album that is unabashedly black would be out a beloved Becky?

Stevie Wonder beat out Bette Midler and Paul Simon in '74

Stevie Wonder beat out John Denver, Paul McCartney, Elton John, and Joni Mitchell in '75

Stevie Wonder beat out Chicago, Peter Frampton, and Boz Skaggs in '77.

Michael Jackson beat out David Bowie, Billy Joel, and The Police in '84

Lionel Ritchie beat out Cyndi Lauper and Bruce Springsteen in '85

Quincy Jones beat out Phil Collins and Wilson Phillips in '91

Natalie Cole beat out Amy Grant, Bonnie Raitt, R.E.M., and Paul Simon in '92

Lauryn Hill beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Garbage, and Shania Twain in '99

c'mon now y'all...

only 10 blk artist have ever been nominated for the award

and only 13 out of 59 times have a blk artist been nominated for the award

that wasn't what I was addressing. The quote was:

Did you really believe an album that is unabashedly black would be out a beloved Becky?

granted, I addressed more than just a "beloved Becky" losing to a Black album but you get the idea.

I mean... Lauryn Hill's unabashedly Black "The Miseducation..." beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, AND Shania Twain... Stevie put it to Bette Midler and Joni Mitchel.

It's happened and will continue to happen.

 

[konceptjones]

ive never seen Beyonce restart a live performance

#Facts

Fell down some stairs ..... kept singing

Hair caught in a fan .... kept singing

Crazy fan tried to snatch her off stage ...... kept singing

She gives you every bit of what you paid for them tickets, that's for sure

none of that has anything to to with "Album of the Year".

 

[Lefty_]

Lets cut it out bruh.

Niggas need to stop disrespectin Beysus.

 

[konceptjones]

Stevie Wonder beat out Bette Midler and Paul Simon in '74

Stevie Wonder beat out John Denver, Paul McCartney, Elton John, and Joni Mitchell in '75

Stevie Wonder beat out Chicago, Peter Frampton, and Boz Skaggs in '77.

Michael Jackson beat out David Bowie, Billy Joel, and The Police in '84

Lionel Ritchie beat out Cyndi Lauper and Bruce Springsteen in '85

Quincy Jones beat out Phil Collins and Wilson Phillips in '91

Natalie Cole beat out Amy Grant, Bonnie Raitt, R.E.M., and Paul Simon in '92

Lauryn Hill beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Garbage, and Shania Twain in '99

c'mon now y'all...

I didn't say that black people never beat out white people. I said an unabashedly black album, meaning TPAB was meant specifically for black people. Some whites and others liked it, but there was no question that the album was for us. That kinda album wasn't going to beat out one of the media princesses.

So you really think Stevie Wonder's three Grammy winning albums, Innervisions, Fulfillingness' First Finale, and Songs in the Key of Life, were NOT meant specifically for Black people??? The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill??? forreals??

 

[a.mann]

If it was about singing Taylor Swift shouldn't even be nominated so why is it all problem all of a sudden when a black/urban artist is in the run. People keep changing the criteria.

right

and what does "urban contemporary" mean exactly

nigger music

 

[JokerzWyld]

Beyoncé did win an NAACP award the day before she lost the Grammy and nobody gave a fuck. I wish people would ignore the Grammys like they do everything else.