Carlos Santana: Beyonce's Not a Singer

[The Lonious Monk]

Stevie Wonder beat out Bette Midler and Paul Simon in '74

Stevie Wonder beat out John Denver, Paul McCartney, Elton John, and Joni Mitchell in '75

Stevie Wonder beat out Chicago, Peter Frampton, and Boz Skaggs in '77.

Michael Jackson beat out David Bowie, Billy Joel, and The Police in '84

Lionel Ritchie beat out Cyndi Lauper and Bruce Springsteen in '85

Quincy Jones beat out Phil Collins and Wilson Phillips in '91

Natalie Cole beat out Amy Grant, Bonnie Raitt, R.E.M., and Paul Simon in '92

Lauryn Hill beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Garbage, and Shania Twain in '99

c'mon now y'all...

I didn't say that black people never beat out white people. I said an unabashedly black album, meaning TPAB was meant specifically for black people. Some whites and others liked it, but there was no question that the album was for us. That kinda album wasn't going to beat out one of the media princesses.

So you really think Stevie Wonder's three Grammy winning albums, Innervisions, Fulfillingness' First Finale, and Songs in the Key of Life, were NOT meant specifically for Black people??? The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill??? forreals??

No, not in the same way TPAB was. Maybe I'm not saying the right words because I think most black artists make albums for people like them. However, TPAB seemed to be written specifically to take on black issues and was a message to black people. I don't think those albums you named were written with the same purpose or gave the same impression. Especially Stevie, his music can is easily applicable to everyone even if he's writing it for blacks. We can agree to disagree though.

 

[desertrain10]

Also, something y'all forget: These awards are voted on by other artists and industry types. The criteria for becoming a voting member of the academy isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially now that they accept artists that are digitally released instead of demanding a physical release. Shit, if I sat down and put in the work, by the end of the year I could be a voting member.

What other artists view as a good album vs what the people view as a good album are going to be different. You're being judged by your peers when you get that Grammy nod. A cat that sold 50K copies of an album that was incredibly good has just as good a chance as getting a nomination, if not a win as someone that sold 4 million. This has happened numerous times, with the most memorable (to me anyways) being The Foreign Exchange being nominated for Best Urban/Alternative Performance for their song "Daykeeper" against not only Beyonce herself, but also Solange that year.

the voters are predominantly old and/or white

also i'd like to think their (e.g. artists, musicians, song writers, etc) taste/ear for music would be a bit more sophisticated

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year so I dunno

Typically it is more sophisticated; that's why she lost. Adele's album was more appreciated by those with an ear for it. While y'all might not like it, from an artist's perspective it was simply better.

lol

but then again taylor swift's "1985" won album over the year over kdot's TPAB last year

and i will never concede or understand 1985 being the better album

everything is subjective I guess....

but it also seems as if there is some cultural bias that exist

The bold goes without saying. This is still a majority white country. Did you really believe an album that is unabashedly black would be out a beloved Becky?

Stevie Wonder beat out Bette Midler and Paul Simon in '74

Stevie Wonder beat out John Denver, Paul McCartney, Elton John, and Joni Mitchell in '75

Stevie Wonder beat out Chicago, Peter Frampton, and Boz Skaggs in '77.

Michael Jackson beat out David Bowie, Billy Joel, and The Police in '84

Lionel Ritchie beat out Cyndi Lauper and Bruce Springsteen in '85

Quincy Jones beat out Phil Collins and Wilson Phillips in '91

Natalie Cole beat out Amy Grant, Bonnie Raitt, R.E.M., and Paul Simon in '92

Lauryn Hill beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Garbage, and Shania Twain in '99

c'mon now y'all...

only 10 blk artist have ever been nominated for the award

and only 13 out of 59 times have a blk artist been nominated for the award

that wasn't what I was addressing. The quote was:

Did you really believe an album that is unabashedly black would be out a beloved Becky?

granted, I addressed more than just a "beloved Becky" losing to a Black album but you get the idea.

I mean... Lauryn Hill's unabashedly Black "The Miseducation..." beat out Madonna, Sheryl Crow, AND Shania Twain... Stevie put it to Bette Midler and Joni Mitchel.

It's happened and will continue to happen.

ok

but the fact that only 10 blk artist have ever been nominated for the award since 1959 doesn't disturb you?

that said, a lot goes into making "the album of the year".... sure they factor in vocals, mixing, lyrics, etc

it would be naïve to suggest there is no cultural biases and maybe even generational biases that exist...same as sales, popularity factor into a lot of these decision low key

 

[The Lonious Monk]

ok

but the fact that only 10 blk artist have ever been nominated for the award since 1959 doesn't disturb you?

that said, a lot goes into making "the album of the year".... sure they factor in vocals, mixing, lyrics, etc

it would be naïve to suggest there is no cultural biases and maybe even generational biases that exist...same as sales, popularity factor into a lot of these decision low key

I don't really disagree with you, but I always wonder why black people get disturbed by stuff like this. In that time period, black people have been less than 20% of the US population. Whites have been more than 60%. Why does it surprise you that popular awards go more based on their sentiment than ours. That's a given. Granted, I think blacks have disproportionately influenced American music, so I do believe it stands to reason that blacks should disproportionately be represented in the awards associated with music. However, I don't see why it would disturb you that white people are more lauded in a country where there are more white people.

 

[desertrain10]

ok

but the fact that only 10 blk artist have ever been nominated for the award since 1959 doesn't disturb you?

that said, a lot goes into making "the album of the year".... sure they factor in vocals, mixing, lyrics, etc

it would be naïve to suggest there is no cultural biases and maybe even generational biases that exist...same as sales, popularity factor into a lot of these decision low key

I don't really disagree with you, but I always wonder why black people get disturbed by stuff like this. In that time period, black people have been less than 20% of the US population. Whites have been more than 60%. Why does it surprise you that popular awards go more based on their sentiment than ours. That's a given. Granted, I think blacks have disproportionately influenced American music, so I do believe it stands to reason that blacks should disproportionately be represented in the awards associated with music. However, I don't see why it would disturb you that white people are more lauded in a country where there are more white people.

it doesn't disturb me in the sense that I'm surprised or anything like that

I was asking @konceptjones because he seems to believe race has played no factor in the voting process

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

Beyonce is in that Aaliyah class of singer/entertainer with a heavy emphasis on entertainer. The same as Michael Jackson.

A SINGER though? Different category. Jill Scott, Marsha Ambrosius and the like are SINGERS. They sell song, not song, dance and costume changes.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just think its a difference.

oh please! what would you know!

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

 

[king hassan]

I never thought men bought Beyoncé albums, I'm shocked knowing what she sings about, well damn

 

[aneed123]

She make songs bout getting nutt on her blouse and head in the car... not Grammy caliber in my opinion. the substance in her music and the show kinda out shine her talent. Also she is the most popular and a lot of her shit is overrated cuz its Beyonce doing it.

 

[konceptjones]

it doesn't disturb me in the sense that I'm surprised or anything like that

I was asking @konceptjones because he seems to believe race has played no factor in the voting process

I know it plays a factor. My contention was that there have been decidedly Black albums that won album of the year over not only the "favorite Becky", but other very prominent, beloved white male artists and it's happened several times and even two years in a row by the same artist (Stevie Wonder in 74 and 75).

We have to look at it differently when it comes to a Grammy as opposed to a Billboard Music Award, which is largely determined by popularity, sales, etc.

That's what I'm saying here.

Most of the responses in here come from the stance that Beyonce should have won because they like her music and are fans and nothing more. You got a poster talking about how she fell down some steps and kept singing... but that shit has nothing to do with whether or not she deserved a Grammy. The voting body doesn't care about a given artist's "grind", or how many fans he or she has, or any of that shit. What matters is whether it's a good album or not.

 

[desertrain10]

it doesn't disturb me in the sense that I'm surprised or anything like that

I was asking @konceptjones because he seems to believe race has played no factor in the voting process

I know it plays a factor. My contention was that there have been decidedly Black albums that won album of the year over not only the "favorite Becky", but other very prominent, beloved white male artists and it's happened several times and even two years in a row by the same artist (Stevie Wonder in 74 and 75).

We have to look at it differently when it comes to a Grammy as opposed to a Billboard Music Award, which is largely determined by popularity, sales, etc.

That's what I'm saying here.

Most of the responses in here come from the stance that Beyonce should have won because they like her music and are fans and nothing more. You got a poster talking about how she fell down some steps and kept singing... but that shit has nothing to do with whether or not she deserved a Grammy. The voting body doesn't care about a given artist's "grind", or how many fans he or she has, or any of that shit. What matters is whether it's a good album or not.

let's forget about beyonce for a minute... a seat at the table >>>>25/lemonade

though there has been some exceptions, race, cultural biases, sales, popularity, etc plays a bigger role with grammy voters than you would like to believe.... the greatest evidence being the absence of blk album of the yr nominees 45 of the 58 years the show has been running

that said, tpab opposed to 1989 was far more critically acclaimed and on top of most music's critic's AOTY list... also d'angelo's black messiah failing to even get nominated in the category the same year was almost as big a travesty and speaks to the how poorly the industry receives and rewards blk music

 

[Aztec_Kang]

I do not have the ability to judge a singing voice. Santana got the Beyoncé supporters feeling some type of way. If what he said was ridiculous though people would just laugh instead of trying to explain how she can sing. I will say this though. Santana's history as a musician can never be erased.

 

[MECCA1000]

ive never seen Beyonce restart a live performance

#Facts

Fell down some stairs ..... kept singing

Hair caught in a fan .... kept singing

Crazy fan tried to snatch her off stage ...... kept singing

She gives you every bit of what you paid for them tickets, that's for sure

none of that has anything to to with "Album of the Year".

I know ...... I was replying to another post ........

 

The user and all related content has been deleted.

 

[konceptjones]

All yall lost your man cards for caring about this.

Personally, I don't give a shit about bee-yon-kee; I care about music (I am, after all, an artist, producer, and DJ).

 

[Idiopathic Joker]

Lol ya'll got your daily outrage on again I see

 

[Juttythe3rd]

A nigga gets in the feelings when he hears Halo. Carlos can chill b

 

[The Lonious Monk]

All yall lost your man cards for caring about this.

You lost your man card for caring about what other niggas care about.

 

[blackgod813]

She make songs bout getting nutt on her blouse and head in the car... not Grammy caliber in my opinion. the substance in her music and the show kinda out shine her talent. Also she is the most popular and a lot of her shit is overrated cuz its Beyonce doing it.

What song iz dat..wtf

 

[blackgod813]

So carlos apolgised wow

 

[rip.dilla]

She make songs bout getting nutt on her blouse and head in the car... not Grammy caliber in my opinion. the substance in her music and the show kinda out shine her talent. Also she is the most popular and a lot of her shit is overrated cuz its Beyonce doing it.

What song iz dat..wtf

Partition