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will Jay-Z drop 1 more classic in 2013 and prove he's the King of NY or.........
Itsallright
New member
Nasstans are the ones who decide whats dope or not.
If you don't think like themyou are not a hip hop head. Like they give you a certificate or something.
They can't even keep the same logic in 2 different threads.
They are all excited when LIG debuted at number 1, next thread they are saying numbers are irrelevant.
If you don't think like themyou are not a hip hop head. Like they give you a certificate or something.
They can't even keep the same logic in 2 different threads.
They are all excited when LIG debuted at number 1, next thread they are saying numbers are irrelevant.
WTT wasn't wack but it wasn't a solo album either. BP3 sold based off Jay-Z's name and "On To The Next One". I think its a decent album, not bad and far from wack but a lot of people seem to hate it.
The last truly undeniable Hov album was American Gangster...that was 5 years ago.
The last truly undeniable Hov album was American Gangster...that was 5 years ago.
MC The Rapper
New member
Why is being the King of NY important and do New Yorkers get a chance to vote? Or is an irrelevant title that doesn't really mean anything?
Kingdom Come wasn't considered whack because no one wanted to hear a mature Jay. It was whack because them beats was whack and his flow was corny. It was a corny album.
As for classics, Nas has one official classic in my book and that's Illmatic. Jay-Z has arguably two and that's Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint. But yet (*SHOCKER*) Nas is still my favorite rapper. Let me tell you why.
Outside of rap message boards full of stans and groupies, no one talks about Jay-Z and Nas having 5-11 classic albums. Shit is just silly. No artist on the planet has that many, especially not rappers Jay-Z and Nas (go ahead and run the gamut of Michael Jackson, James Brown, Miles Davis, and the Beatles and you still won't get there).
Nas has 5 great albums, there's a difference (great album doesn't equal classic). When you read journalists and critics refer to classic albums, they mean albums that are musically perfect, have stood the test of time, and had significant cultural, artistic, and/or social influence. Only three albums really fit the bill in the case of Nas and Jay-Z on this score and that's Illmatic, Reasonable Doubt, and Blueprint. Although Jay has two classics, neither of those albums are quite as great as Illmatic. They're virtually perfect albums, but don't reach the level of greatness of Illmatic (this is consistent with what most critics and journalists think).
It Was Written can't be classic because not every song on that album is perfect ("Nas Is Coming") and it didn't shape a sound so much as borrow one (from Raekwon's classic LP Only Built 4 Cuban Linx). Admittedly, nearly every song is a banger and Nas is a lyrical beast on that album. It went from the initial backlash and mixed reactions when it was released off the the heels of Illmatic for its obviously more commercial sound to years later being acknowledged as a great album and containing some of his best work. That's all a given, but again, not every great album an artist makes should be called a classic.
Stillmatic is not a classic because it has at least one or two weak/subpar/average tracks on it ("Braveheart Party"). It's also not a very influential album, even if it's a very important album for Nas. It's a great comeback album with an artist at the top of his game. The same can be said for both The Black Album and American Gangster. Great albums overall, but not perfect, and certainly not influential (and haven't withstood the test of time).
The Lost Tapes ain't a classic because for one, it's not an official solo album. And two, it's not a very artistically or culturally significant album that has been highly publicized (its quiet release had no real impact on the game). Rather it's a collection of classic cuts unfortunately omitted from two Nas solo LPs. It's simply a wonderful little album of lost gems that's like a gift to the true Hip-Hop head and Nas fan.
As for great albums, Nas has (IMO) five: Illmatic, It Was Written, The Lost Tapes, Stillmatic, and Life Is Good.
Jay has four: Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, The Black Album, and American Gangster.
If we're counting collaboration albums, in my view, Distant Relatives and Watch the Throne are pretty much on par with each other.
It would seem then that Nas has more great albums, but Jay arguably has one more classic album than Nas. I still prefer Nas because (1) he has more great albums than Jay, (2) he's had an overall more consistent and balanced career artistically as he's still making great solo music and he never fell off lyrically or with his flow like Jay (i.e. Kingdom Come era whisper whining), (3) I simply relate to his music more and find him a superior and more influential lyricist and (4) Illmatic is still better than anything Jay-Z has ever made (and most critics agree with me).
Most Nas stans couldn't fathom giving Jay the kind of nods and concessions I have in this post, but I don't consider myself a Nas stan, even though he's my favorite rapper. I consider myself a Hip-Hop fan first and foremost and must give credit where credit is due. I simply feel Jay as a matter of fact has one more classic (though lesser classic) album than Nas given Blueprint's artistic influence on the game, but overall I prefer Nas' career and music. I think the closest you can get to an objective opinion on this matter is to see how well your opinion matches up with or approximates what most professional critics would say. Otherwise, there are no standards, and it's purely subjective, so there's no point in arguing about anything.
As for classics, Nas has one official classic in my book and that's Illmatic. Jay-Z has arguably two and that's Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint. But yet (*SHOCKER*) Nas is still my favorite rapper. Let me tell you why.
Outside of rap message boards full of stans and groupies, no one talks about Jay-Z and Nas having 5-11 classic albums. Shit is just silly. No artist on the planet has that many, especially not rappers Jay-Z and Nas (go ahead and run the gamut of Michael Jackson, James Brown, Miles Davis, and the Beatles and you still won't get there).
Nas has 5 great albums, there's a difference (great album doesn't equal classic). When you read journalists and critics refer to classic albums, they mean albums that are musically perfect, have stood the test of time, and had significant cultural, artistic, and/or social influence. Only three albums really fit the bill in the case of Nas and Jay-Z on this score and that's Illmatic, Reasonable Doubt, and Blueprint. Although Jay has two classics, neither of those albums are quite as great as Illmatic. They're virtually perfect albums, but don't reach the level of greatness of Illmatic (this is consistent with what most critics and journalists think).
It Was Written can't be classic because not every song on that album is perfect ("Nas Is Coming") and it didn't shape a sound so much as borrow one (from Raekwon's classic LP Only Built 4 Cuban Linx). Admittedly, nearly every song is a banger and Nas is a lyrical beast on that album. It went from the initial backlash and mixed reactions when it was released off the the heels of Illmatic for its obviously more commercial sound to years later being acknowledged as a great album and containing some of his best work. That's all a given, but again, not every great album an artist makes should be called a classic.
Stillmatic is not a classic because it has at least one or two weak/subpar/average tracks on it ("Braveheart Party"). It's also not a very influential album, even if it's a very important album for Nas. It's a great comeback album with an artist at the top of his game. The same can be said for both The Black Album and American Gangster. Great albums overall, but not perfect, and certainly not influential (and haven't withstood the test of time).
The Lost Tapes ain't a classic because for one, it's not an official solo album. And two, it's not a very artistically or culturally significant album that has been highly publicized (its quiet release had no real impact on the game). Rather it's a collection of classic cuts unfortunately omitted from two Nas solo LPs. It's simply a wonderful little album of lost gems that's like a gift to the true Hip-Hop head and Nas fan.
As for great albums, Nas has (IMO) five: Illmatic, It Was Written, The Lost Tapes, Stillmatic, and Life Is Good.
Jay has four: Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, The Black Album, and American Gangster.
If we're counting collaboration albums, in my view, Distant Relatives and Watch the Throne are pretty much on par with each other.
It would seem then that Nas has more great albums, but Jay arguably has one more classic album than Nas. I still prefer Nas because (1) he has more great albums than Jay, (2) he's had an overall more consistent and balanced career artistically as he's still making great solo music and he never fell off lyrically or with his flow like Jay (i.e. Kingdom Come era whisper whining), (3) I simply relate to his music more and find him a superior and more influential lyricist and (4) Illmatic is still better than anything Jay-Z has ever made (and most critics agree with me).
Most Nas stans couldn't fathom giving Jay the kind of nods and concessions I have in this post, but I don't consider myself a Nas stan, even though he's my favorite rapper. I consider myself a Hip-Hop fan first and foremost and must give credit where credit is due. I simply feel Jay as a matter of fact has one more classic (though lesser classic) album than Nas given Blueprint's artistic influence on the game, but overall I prefer Nas' career and music. I think the closest you can get to an objective opinion on this matter is to see how well your opinion matches up with or approximates what most professional critics would say. Otherwise, there are no standards, and it's purely subjective, so there's no point in arguing about anything.
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Gen. Stasia
New member
Bp3 is Trash... IMHO Kingdom Come>>>>>>
And Nas is the only rapper that motivates Hov to step his bars up so yes his next Album will be dope.
And Nas is the only rapper that motivates Hov to step his bars up so yes his next Album will be dope.
Melanin_Enriched
New member
The only classic Jay has is AG.
Already Home_17
New member
niggas are really abusing the word classic in here
DMTxCannabis;4705337 said:usmarin3;4705288 said:DMTxCannabis;4705227 said:usmarin3;4704693 said:And_So_It_Burns;4704064 said:Yeah I was wondering the same thing. I would love to hear a American Gangster type Jay less bragging and more introspection but not.like the introspection on WTT. Jay sounded out of place. I would like Jay to drop music on par with untitled, DR or LIG but I don't see it happening. Nas has been wearing the Crown for four years now
You niggas kill me with this KHUFFI MUSIC NONESENSE, Jay-z ain't a bean pie eating rapper, why is that so hard fo you niggas to get. The dude came from the streets, that's like saying why don't G RAP make a introspective album. It's like ya'll hold Jay-z to this double standard and use the backpack/conscious standard for rhetoric. Why can't Nas make entertaining music and club bangers, that's just not Nas lane. Accept Nas for what he brings and Jay for what he brings.
Jay-z been holding NY since Biggie died, say what you want about his albums or whatever, but the man has never had any lulls in his career like Nas. He has consistently burned up the summer when NY was going through it's drought.
@ the bolded: it's funny you mentioned that, being that the first song Jay dropped a verse on was on some Muslim shit. And a lot of those "bean pie eating" brothers are from the streets too, when it comes to NYC. Same goes for 5%ers and Black Hebrew Israelites.
That's actually not the first song Jay dropped a verse on for one thing. The point i am making is, why do you niggas continue to use your pretentious standards to try to compare Jay and Nas. They are two different artist with two different upbringing. I don't here people telling Big Daddy Kane to spit that knowledge of a Rakim, G Rap to stop the street tales and get deeper like a Chuck D.
I honestly believe these Nas fans are salty at Jays success, like ole boy said, you don't see Jay fans talking about Nas should make a Black Album. Wanna know why, because Jays career is on a whole other plateau than Nas.
Well I know I was close. I highly doubt he dropped any cameos prior to him fucking with Jaz in 89-90.
And you right, Jay never had a lull in his career. I even stated that Jay has a better career then Nas in one of buttuh_b's threads I believe.
I don't have a problem with Jay's content, as long as the lyrics are dope.
Edit: Jay should bring heat like he did on Shiny Suit Theory and Murder To Excellence more often.
But he does, people just like to act like he doesn't
So ambitious
New Day
American Dreaming
Pray
etc
People like to paint Nas as this deep intellectual even though this nigga be spitting about bitches, ice, and cars too and paint Jay as the materialistic nigga with no soul.
StoneColdMikey
New member
Yes his next album will be dope.
StillFaggyAF
New member
Usmarine caught feelings....again
SuperstarCole;4705816 said:The only classic Jay has is AG.
Lol
Tommy bilfiger
New member
rong;4705442 said:buttuh_b;4705365 said:Objectively, BP3 and WTT were wack as fuck. American Gangster was about selling heroin for the entirety of the album.
Jay hasn't brought the heat in 9 years and even The Black Album had its fair share of duds. So here we are, 11 years since Jay-Z crafted a great album.
My only questions are if BP3 and WTT are wack how do they do so well? Why do so many people like the album? Why do the critics give it high ratings? Why are the singles chart topping? Is that really a wack album or an album thats not your taste personally?
He speaking as a bitter nasir groupie you cant take anything those geeks say seriously they loathe jigga
Watch the throne is better than any nasir album ever dropped except maybe stillmatic
Itsallright;4705761 said:Nasstans are the ones who decide whats dope or not.
If you don't think like them you are not a hip hop head. Like they give you a certificate or something.
They can't even keep the same logic in 2 different threads.
They are all excited when LIG debuted at number 1, next thread they are saying numbers are irrelevant.
Lmao got em
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texasdaking88
New member
As long as nas says Africa and talks about Kenya plains and deserts, nas stans will say it's a classic.. he makes a song about street life and they say it's a classic.. he makes a song about being a dope dealer, long as he say Timbuktu in it, it's classic.. if nas records himself taking a shit, and says "Oh my amen ra!" while dropping the big one, nas stans say it's a classic..
Tommy bilfiger
New member
texasdaking88;4706142 said:As long as nas says Africa and talks about Kenya plains and deserts, nas stans will say it's a classic.. he makes a song about street life and they say it's a classic.. he makes a song about being a dope dealer, long as he say Timbuktu in it, it's classic.. if nas records himself taking a shit, and says "Oh my amen ra!" while dropping the big one, nas stans say it's a classic..
Lmao Goat post
rong;4705529 said:Mr.LV;4705518 said:Blueprint 3 has some nice songs on it I mean how can you hate this.
Code:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjsXo9l6I8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
According to the IC the album was wack though and only sold cuz Jay know how to market himiself lmao...some logic I can see if you said it had some below average songs on there like Hate, Song with Drake, But to say the whole ablum wack is not true...
Niggas hate success. They find every reason to hate on a successful black man that's doing shit his way. If Nas was more successful, they'd hate on him too...just look at Jay, T.I., Wayne, Ross & any other brother that's getting it. I can't say I like Wayne's music, but he's doing shit the way he wants to do it. I know I won't like his music so I don't bother to listen to it. These dudes listen to rappers they don't like just to find something to hate about. The shit is pathetic.
texasdaking88;4706142 said:As long as nas says Africa and talks about Kenya plains and deserts, nas stans will say it's a classic.. he makes a song about street life and they say it's a classic.. he makes a song about being a dope dealer, long as he say Timbuktu in it, it's classic.. if nas records himself taking a shit, and says "Oh my amen ra!" while dropping the big one, nas stans say it's a classic..
Where did he do this in Life Is Good?
usmarin3;4705844 said:DMTxCannabis;4705337 said:usmarin3;4705288 said:DMTxCannabis;4705227 said:usmarin3;4704693 said:And_So_It_Burns;4704064 said:Yeah I was wondering the same thing. I would love to hear a American Gangster type Jay less bragging and more introspection but not.like the introspection on WTT. Jay sounded out of place. I would like Jay to drop music on par with untitled, DR or LIG but I don't see it happening. Nas has been wearing the Crown for four years now
You niggas kill me with this KHUFFI MUSIC NONESENSE, Jay-z ain't a bean pie eating rapper, why is that so hard fo you niggas to get. The dude came from the streets, that's like saying why don't G RAP make a introspective album. It's like ya'll hold Jay-z to this double standard and use the backpack/conscious standard for rhetoric. Why can't Nas make entertaining music and club bangers, that's just not Nas lane. Accept Nas for what he brings and Jay for what he brings.
Jay-z been holding NY since Biggie died, say what you want about his albums or whatever, but the man has never had any lulls in his career like Nas. He has consistently burned up the summer when NY was going through it's drought.
@ the bolded: it's funny you mentioned that, being that the first song Jay dropped a verse on was on some Muslim shit. And a lot of those "bean pie eating" brothers are from the streets too, when it comes to NYC. Same goes for 5%ers and Black Hebrew Israelites.
That's actually not the first song Jay dropped a verse on for one thing. The point i am making is, why do you niggas continue to use your pretentious standards to try to compare Jay and Nas. They are two different artist with two different upbringing. I don't here people telling Big Daddy Kane to spit that knowledge of a Rakim, G Rap to stop the street tales and get deeper like a Chuck D.
I honestly believe these Nas fans are salty at Jays success, like ole boy said, you don't see Jay fans talking about Nas should make a Black Album. Wanna know why, because Jays career is on a whole other plateau than Nas.
Well I know I was close. I highly doubt he dropped any cameos prior to him fucking with Jaz in 89-90.
And you right, Jay never had a lull in his career. I even stated that Jay has a better career then Nas in one of buttuh_b's threads I believe.
I don't have a problem with Jay's content, as long as the lyrics are dope.
Edit: Jay should bring heat like he did on Shiny Suit Theory and Murder To Excellence more often.
But he does, people just like to act like he doesn't
So ambitious
New Day
American Dreaming
Pray
etc
People like to paint Nas as this deep intellectual even though this nigga be spitting about bitches, ice, and cars too and paint Jay as the materialistic nigga with no soul.
Nas has more substance than Jay it isn't a lie.
coolc31;4706353 said:rong;4705529 said:Mr.LV;4705518 said:Blueprint 3 has some nice songs on it I mean how can you hate this.
Code:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjsXo9l6I8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
According to the IC the album was wack though and only sold cuz Jay know how to market himiself lmao...some logic I can see if you said it had some below average songs on there like Hate, Song with Drake, But to say the whole ablum wack is not true...
Niggas hate success. They find every reason to hate on a successful black man that's doing shit his way. If Nas was more successful, they'd hate on him too...just look at Jay, T.I., Wayne, Ross & any other brother that's getting it. I can't say I like Wayne's music, but he's doing shit the way he wants to do it. I know I won't like his music so I don't bother to listen to it. These dudes listen to rappers they don't like just to find something to hate about. The shit is pathetic.
Yeah because Nas ain't a millionaire as well?
