Why is Obama challenging the Arizona law when MOST Americans support it......?

[janklow]

Makes no sense that people are talking all of this shit about "illegal immigration." People are so self-righteous and have historical amnesia.

well, the pilgrims not being the first Europeans over here, they wouldn't have been the first illegal immigrants either. but the fact is that it's a morally-satisfying-but-legally-meaningless aside here. no one's position on the Arizona law is affected by whether or not it was legally correct for Europeans to take Indian land; they're not being self-righteous (well, maybe a little), they're debating current immigration laws that are in force.

 

[tdoto88]

Let me ask you something and any of you pro immigrant people can answer this question. When and most importantly WHY did it become the United States responsibility to provide the 3rd world with a better standard of living? If Mexico enter into a fucked up trade agreement who's fault is that, the U.S.? Why didn't Mexican representative negotiate more acceptable terms on behalf of their country? Why should getting into the United States be an easy thing to do. You talk about people coming here to make a better life for themselves, but why are you completely and totally absolving these people's native governments of the responsibility of providing their citizens with a higher standard of living. Your the type of person who demands free medical care, social services, and other entitlements from the government, but why doesn't the government of Mexico have to provides it's citizens with the same thing?

From reading your comments you sound anti-immigration which if you are then you are. you have the right to feel that way

So what your saying is if someone wants to better their lives & go to a different country they shouldnt?? instead they should "tough it out" in their country, even though their native country is in shambles??

Im assuming your ancestors came here bc they saw the US as the land of opportunity and wanted a better future for themselves & their future generations (you, your siblings if you have any)

Im not saying the US is or should take responsibility for any 3rd world countrys economic or political structure (the US can help out if it wants to though...however if you want to be realistic the US has for the most part always provided aid to those 3rd world countries... after decades of doing so countries started depending on the US and other industrialized nations for that).

Who said anything about absolving any government from its fuck ups it has to take care of tht since they have the duty to provide for its citizens but if people want to leave in search of better opportunities its their God given right too....Who are you to say they cant leave or deserve the right to a fair shot at life??? (Im assuming you got one)

Should entry in the US be easy?? No as I believe those who want to come here legally should go through a process (which they do so......).. Id prefer if ppl did it legally bc it would supply our govt with more tax revenue..

 

[redhandedbandit]

I don't know how accurate this is but I found it interesting

JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL
> You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
> Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
> Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
> Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash" under the table".
> Ready? Now pay attention...
> Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
> Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose> Illegal now has $31,200.00.
> Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.
> Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
> Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
> Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
> Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.
> Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.
> Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
> Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.
> Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
> Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.
> Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
> Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
> Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch..
> Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program.
> Joe Legal's children go home.
> Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

> Do you get it, now?
> If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...
> You are part of the problem!
> It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
> What are you waiting for? Pass it on.

this is bullshit because you need a valid social security to get foodstamps or housing in the united states illegal immigrants do not have social security numbers

 

[redhandedbandit]

oh yea also welfare is now called social security hardship benefits and is directly tied to your social security number

 

[redhandedbandit]

oh yeah by the way i receive both sec 8 and foodstamps... and trust me its a rigorous process...it took 3 years for my name to come up on the section 8 list then they had a pre screening where i had to provide proof of citizenship (my passport and social security number) bank statements, work checks showing how much i earn etc. then after the 3 years i had to go through the process again. now that i have it i have to re-certify every year...Foodstamps were easier to get I had to bring my social security number and documents proving how much I earn

 

[astonmartin]

From reading your comments you sound anti-immigration which if you are then you are. you have the right to feel that way

So what your saying is if someone wants to better their lives & go to a different country they shouldnt?? instead they should "tough it out" in their country, even though their native country is in shambles??

Im assuming your ancestors came here bc they saw the US as the land of opportunity and wanted a better future for themselves & their future generations (you, your siblings if you have any)

Im not saying the US is or should take responsibility for any 3rd world countrys economic or political structure (the US can help out if it wants to though...however if you want to be realistic the US has for the most part always provided aid to those 3rd world countries... after decades of doing so countries started depending on the US and other industrialized nations for that).

Who said anything about absolving any government from its fuck ups it has to take care of tht since they have the duty to provide for its citizens but if people want to leave in search of better opportunities its their God given right too....Who are you to say they cant leave or deserve the right to a fair shot at life??? (Im assuming you got one)

Should entry in the US be easy?? No as I believe those who want to come here legally should go through a process (which they do so......).. Id prefer if ppl did it legally bc it would supply our govt with more tax revenue..

What part of ILLEGAL don't people understand? God forbid if a US cictizen wants his/her gvnmnt enforce existing immigartion rules - you're called racists, anti-Obama.That is waht Maximus Rex is saying.

this is bullshit because you need a valid social security to get foodstamps or housing in the united states illegal immigrants do not have social security numbers

Hello anchor babies! Anchor babies have valid SSN and birth ceritificates, most illegals have an average of 6 kids per family, 6 valid SSN to get [illegal] mom and dad housing and food, while dad makes $31250/year [tax free]

oh yea also welfare is now called social security hardship benefits and is directly tied to your social security number

relevancy?

oh yeah by the way i receive both sec 8 and foodstamps... and trust me its a rigorous process...it took 3 years for my name to come up on the section 8 list then they had a pre screening where i had to provide proof of citizenship (my passport and social security number) bank statements, work checks showing how much i earn etc. then after the 3 years i had to go through the process again. now that i have it i have to re-certify every year...Foodstamps were easier to get I had to bring my social security number and documents proving how much I earn

Wow, I wouldn't be proud of receiving assistance, as a man my pride would not let me beg fro asistance from anyone.

BTW, it might be a rigorous process, but remember dad is working under the table and mom is popping out kids, so 3 years is nothing to these people.

Americans are fed up with this shit.

 

[Maximus Rex]

From reading your comments you sound anti-immigration which if you are then you are. you have the right to feel that way

Where did I say or imply that I was "anti-immigration. I fully support legal immigration to the U.S. and I would support codifying the immigration statues to expedite the process as long as these new laws don't compromise national security or public health

So what your saying is if someone wants to better their lives & go to a different country they shouldnt?? instead they should "tough it out" in their country, even though their native country is in shambles??

Yes. These people have a civic and MORAL responsibility to DEMAND that their governments end corruption and feckless, inept leadership. Mexico for example fought and won it's independence from Spain. If these people got in the street and demanded accountability for their leaders like they are to demand shit from us they don't deserve, then you wouldn't have millions of them coming here. Before the Civil Rights Movement, the easy thing for us (black people,) to do would've been to say "Fuck it. These white muthfuckas ain't never gonna let us have shit. We might as well move to Canada. But Dr. King and others like him got in the street and demanded that we be given the rights we were afforded in the Constitution. If I'm correct not even radical blacks like Malcolm and The Panthers support a mass exodus of black people from American. The only person who ever did that was Marcus Gravey. It isn't like these countries are void of natural resources. Mexico has two coastlines, oil, and other natural resources. Mexico and these other countries are more than capable of supporting it's population. If other people can expect and demand accountability from their government than why can't they?

I'm assuming your ancestors came here bc they saw the US as the land of opportunity and wanted a better future for themselves & their future generations (you, your siblings if you have any)

I'm black. My people are from Texas and Louisiana.

Who said anything about absolving any government from its fuck ups it has to take care of tht since they have the duty to provide for its citizens but if people want to leave in search of better opportunities its their God given right too....Who are you to say they cant leave or deserve the right to a fair shot at life??? (Im assuming you got one)

Pro illegal NEVER state that these people's governments have responsibility to them with a decent standard of living. Pro illegal people's solution to the problem is unfettered immigration to the U.S. I'm not saying that they don't have a right to leave. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't break the law to do it and if they do they shouldn't demand services from the government or bitch when the government of said country wants to throw them the fuck out.

Should entry in the US be easy?? No as I believe those who want to come here legally should go through a process (which they do so......).. Id prefer if ppl did it legally bc it would supply our govt with more tax revenue..

I agree. I have a very simple solution to the immigration shit:

1) Land Mines. This is cheap and effective determent to illegal border crossing. If you want come the U.S. so bad. Okay, try to circumnavigate a mine field.

2) Fence or Wall. The land mines would be used on desolate, remote parts of the border. On other parts there should be a wall or a fence.

3) Shoot To Kill Order. The Border Patrol with assistance from the National Guard would have a shoot to kill order for anyone caught illegally crossing the border.

4) The National Guard. It's already be done, put a larger number of National Guardsman should be placed on the border.

5) Make it a felony. Being in the U.S. illegally should be a federal offense punishable by 5 years in a federal pen.

6) Fines and jail time. Employers that hire illegals should be heavily fined and jailed.

7) New Amendment. The Constitution needs to be change to only grant citizenship to those whose parents are here legally.[/B]

 

[tdoto88]

Where did I say or imply that I was "anti-immigration. I fully support legal immigration to the U.S. and I would support codifying the immigration statues to expedite the process as long as these new laws don't compromise national security or public health

Yes. These people have a civic and MORAL responsibility to DEMAND that their governments end corruption and feckless, inept leadership. Mexico for example fought and won it's independence from Spain. If these people got in the street and demanded accountability for their leaders like they are to demand shit from us they don't deserve, then you wouldn't have millions of them coming here. Before the Civil Rights Movement, the easy thing for us (black people,) to do would've been to say "Fuck it. These white muthfuckas ain't never gonna let us have shit. We might as well move to Canada. But Dr. King and others like him got in the street and demanded that we be given the rights we were afforded in the Constitution. If I'm correct not even radical blacks like Malcolm and The Panthers support a mass exodus of black people from American. The only person who ever did that was Marcus Gravey. It isn't like these countries are void of natural resources. Mexico has two coastlines, oil, and other natural resources. Mexico and these other countries are more than capable of supporting it's population. If other people can expect and demand accountability from their government than why can't they?

I'm black. My people are from Texas and Louisiana.

Pro illegal NEVER state that these people's governments have responsibility to them with a decent standard of living. Pro illegal people's solution to the problem is unfettered immigration to the U.S. I'm not saying that they don't have a right to leave. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't break the law to do it and if they do they shouldn't demand services from the government or bitch when the government of said country wants to throw them the fuck out.

I agree. I have a very simple solution to the immigration shit:

1) Land Mines. This is cheap and effective determent to illegal border crossing. If you want come the U.S. so bad. Okay, try to circumnavigate a mine field.

2) Fence or Wall. The land mines would be used on desolate, remote parts of the border. On other parts there should be a wall or a fence.

3) Shoot To Kill Order. The Border Patrol with assistance from the National Guard would have a shoot to kill order for anyone caught illegally crossing the border.

4) The National Guard. It's already be done, put a larger number of National Guardsman should be placed on the border.

5) Make it a felony. Being in the U.S. illegally should be a federal offense punishable by 5 years in a federal pen.

6) Fines and jail time. Employers that hire illegals should be heavily fined and jailed.

7) New Amendment. The Constitution needs to be change to only grant citizenship to those whose parents are here legally.[/B]

okay after gettin all tht out of you I can now fully understand your position, which is very similar to mine..didnt mean to insinuate you were anti-immigration hence why i put "if"..

ok i feel u on the whole "demand more from your gov't" position which I do agree with but for those with children at hand or with other mouths to feed they may seek out greener pastures instead of putting their families through civil war/unrest.

As far as your 7 ways I agree with 2,4,6 (the fine part not the jail part.. the fines should be an excessive amount tho..say 10grand for every illegal) & 7 (but then ur gunna have these Tea Partiers & Republicans goin ape shit..but fuck em lol)

1 isnt bad..i swear they do tht now

3 seems very radical & human rights groups will pounce on it with swiftness (even if the ppl are illegals)..

cant fucks with number 5 though.... why send MORE $$ by puttin them through the federal system & adding to the overcrowded population in prisons (it cost 50,000 annually for each prisoner).. seems backwards to deal with the situation (at least from an economic pt. of view)

 

[earth two superman]

Land mines and shoot to kill orders? Wow.

 

[redhandedbandit]

What part of ILLEGAL don't people understand? God forbid if a US cictizen wants his/her gvnmnt enforce existing immigartion rules - you're called racists, anti-Obama.That is waht Maximus Rex is saying.

Hello anchor babies! Anchor babies have valid SSN and birth ceritificates, most illegals have an average of 6 kids per family, 6 valid SSN to get [illegal] mom and dad housing and food, while dad makes $31250/year [tax free]

relevancy?



Wow, I wouldn't be proud of receiving assistance, as a man my pride would not let me beg fro asistance from anyone.

BTW, it might be a rigorous process, but remember dad is working under the table and mom is popping out kids, so 3 years is nothing to these people.

Americans are fed up with this shit.

nobody said i was proud but you have to survive no you on some disrespectful shit im just telling it like it is...its not begging thats what the system is in place for i work and go to school as well

 

[kingblaze84]

nobody said i was proud but you have to survive no you on some disrespectful shit im just telling it like it is...its not begging thats what the system is in place for i work and go to school as well

Nothing wrong with that, you pay into the system by working, you're simply getting your money back. But if TOO MANY people are here illegally, it will be inevitable that money for helping people such as yourself will run out. Look at Europe and see how they treat most of their illegal immigrants, it isn't pretty!!!!! Many refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan are living in misery all over Europe because Europe can't care for illegals as it used to, due to its exploding illegal immigration problem.

For everyone's sake, a national ID card should be issued and be carried around at all times. If the ID is left at home, the person should be taken to police headquarters and be investigated to prove he or she is a citizen. Arizona's law is very harsh, and may be a bit draconian in certain aspects.....but people have to understand the nation is going B.R.O.K.E. BROKE. Illegals are a drain on our social services.....something must be done. The sooner, the better. I'm going to re-post Aston's great post that he made a couple of days ago.

 

[kingblaze84]

Among the best posts made in this thread, posted by Aston Martin......

---In California , if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to to their home countries, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.

In Colorado, if 500,000 illegal migrants, would move back 'home', mostly to Mexico . That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.

Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.

Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop-out/flunk-out rate because of thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado .

Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

In Florida , 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America , the rule of law, and English.

In Chicago , Illinois , 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.

If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home' --

If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home', the U.S. Economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 Billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state and city coffers.

No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.

We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.

In cities like L.A. , 20,000 members of the ' 18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans!

No more foreign rapists and child molesters!

Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!

America 's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America 's economy - which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.

At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California , Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act.

Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.

Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse gases.

Over one million of Mexico 's poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville , Texas to San Diego , California in what the New York Times called, "colonias" or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation. The New York Times reported them to be America 's new " Third World " inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonias. (I've seen them personally in Texas and Arizona ; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico .

There's no doubt that illegal immigrants put a strain on our services.

 

[the_underground]

well, the pilgrims not being the first Europeans over here, they wouldn't have been the first illegal immigrants either. but the fact is that it's a morally-satisfying-but-legally-meaningless aside here. no one's position on the Arizona law is affected by whether or not it was legally correct for Europeans to take Indian land; they're not being self-righteous (well, maybe a little), they're debating current immigration laws that are in force.

I understand your point, but mine was to comment on the general arrogance and hypocrisy when it comes ot the topic of illegal immigration, not just the Arizona law.

 

[the_underground]

@ Rex:

Yo, fuck writing a long ass reply to this shit.

I'm staying gangsta.

As I said before, it is not Latin America which has the highest number of illegal immigrants. It's Europeans on student visas. But there is no major wave to keep them out. It's mostly targeted towards Latin Americans living in the United States. Putting border walls up along the border of Mexico adds a racial component to the US's fight against illegal immigration. This has the perception of illegal immigration as being spear headed by people who are brown, and thus, this is where the problem is with the Arizona law. It doesn't matter what's said in the constitution, that shit has been used in the past to back up oppression as it can be said to do now with Arizona.

It's not the responsibility of the US to stop shit. I am, however, identifying the problem is the cause of NAFTA trade agreements.

 

[kingblaze84]

@ Rex:

Yo, fuck writing a long ass reply to this shit.

I'm staying gangsta.

As I said before, it is not Latin America which has the highest number of illegal immigrants. It's Europeans on student visas. But there is no major wave to keep them out. It's mostly targeted towards Latin Americans living in the United States. Putting border walls up along the border of Mexico adds a racial component to the US's fight against illegal immigration. This has the perception of illegal immigration as being spear headed by people who are brown, and thus, this is where the problem is with the Arizona law. It doesn't matter what's said in the constitution, that shit has been used in the past to back up oppression as it can be said to do now with Arizona.

It's not the responsibility of the US to stop shit. I am, however, identifying the problem is the cause of NAFTA trade agreements.

Do you have any links to back up your claims that European students make up the biggest percentage or number of illegals?

 

[the_underground]

Do you have any links to back up your claims that European students make up the biggest percentage or number of illegals?

Nope.

I saw Angela Davis giving a speech and she cited that there was a report that said most illegals are Europeans on student visas.

Speech was entitled "The Prison Industrial Complex."

 

[earth two superman]

dont european students have visas though?

 

[the_underground]

They prolly stay past their visa expiration date.

 

[Maximus Rex]

@ Rex:

Yo, fuck writing a long ass reply to this shit.

I'm staying gangsta.

As I said before, it is not Latin America which has the highest number of illegal immigrants. It's Europeans on student visas. But there is no major wave to keep them out. It's mostly targeted towards Latin Americans living in the United States. Putting border walls up along the border of Mexico adds a racial component to the US's fight against illegal immigration. This has the perception of illegal immigration as being spear headed by people who are brown, and thus, this is where the problem is with the Arizona law. It doesn't matter what's said in the constitution, that shit has been used in the past to back up oppression as it can be said to do now with Arizona.

It's not the responsibility of the US to stop shit.

Elaborate.

I am, however, identifying the problem is the cause of NAFTA trade agreements.

What does NAFTA have to do with immigration?

In an earlier post you said this:

FMP, polls are bullshit and biased. No adult I know is ever polled for the shit they show ion TV. Bet you 100 bucks the people who are agreeing with this law are conservative, white, and mostly middle class. I was in Arizona and a lot of people on the border I met didn't care about people coming across.

In other post King Blaze 84 posed this question:

Do you have any links to back up your claims that European students make up the biggest percentage or number of illegals?

You responded with:

Nope.

I saw Angela Davis giving a speech and she cited that there was a report that said most illegals are Europeans on student visas.

Speech was entitled "The Prison Industrial Complex."

Why is that you question the veracity of a poll when it runs counter to your opinion, but you take what Angela Davis has to say as incontrovertibly true. Seriously though, not to sound mean but your statement about the poll shows your ignorance of a the market research industry. Market research companies are able to make money because they're able to provide their clients with accurate data that correctly reflects the publics thoughts on issues and products. If a market research company can't accurately do this, than that company will quickly go out of business. Why do you think politicians are always taking polls, because the polls are right. In this particular poll it was probably a general sample that polled all races, ages, and political party. From there the results were broken down into their respective demographics. You have to understand something and women have a tendency to do this. Just because it isn't happening in your respective peer group, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

 

[the_underground]

lol Eh, fuck me arguing a point over and over.

Polls are biased information because you can basically get a specific population who you know can give the answers that you want. A report is more of a scientific study because it's done on thorough research and observation. The reason that companies and politicians go by polls is so they can carry out their practices, no matter how unethical, simply because they got poll answers from people that they wanted.