Why DON'T You Listen To Old School Hip Hop?

[Revolver Ocelot]

How can you not like this?

Easy, cuz there are better songs that show love to NYC.

Shit, Dog Pounds diss song bout NYC is better then this.

 

[5 Grand]

here's the thing...

somebody into rock in general will probably appreciate Hendrix, The Stones, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin just like people into hip hop can appreciate Scarface, Nas, Tribe, PE and so on.

But those rock people aren't likely listening to Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Little Richard or Rosetta Tharpe just like hip-hop fans aren't listening to Rapper's delight over and over.

It's partly because things have changed so much that those artists are basically a whole different genre and also because a lot of that stuff was really rough around the edges just like any beta version of a new invention. Then you gotta add on top of all that that a lot of people have heard all that music in the background a zillion times already growing up and it's just not fresh or exciting. Finally, people tend to hold on to the music that resonated with them when they were adolescents and teens and that shit probably wasn't for them at that time.

Not to mention nobody has time to hear a guy rap over a disco beat with made-up words for 8 minutes anymore.

This is 100% what i said in the first page or so and i am glad someone else gets it. B.B., Berry, Buddy (holly and guy), Muddy, all set the groundwork for the legends of the late 60's and 70's to have the golden era of rock and blues. But even me someone who is huge into rock doesn't listen to Little Richard or Buddy Holly like that.

Same thing with R&B i own every Stevie Wonder album on CD,MP3, or FLAC Lossless. But i don't listen to that shit from the 50's before him and honestly i don't even listen to much of his pre teen and teenage albums. I bump his classic era shit from the 70's.

Rap niggas like 5Grandpa don't get this and think the early days of hip hop is some sort of golden age just because they were young back when that era started.

If you don't listen to Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Miles Davis, Billie Holiday, Sarah Vaughn, Ella Fitzgerald and Ray Charles you don't know anything about music.

Seriously. if you've never heard God Bless The Child or A Night In Tunisia you should log off right now and go directly to Youtube.

I can name a handful of albums from the 50s and early 60s that are a must listen;

1. Bird and Diz - Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie (1952)

2. April in Paris - Charlie Parker (1957)

3. Birth of The Cool - Miles Davis (recorded in 1949/1950)

4. Kind Of Blue - Miles Davis (1957)

5. Sketches of Spain - Miles Davis (1957)

6. The Genius Of Ray Charles - Ray Charles (1959)

7. Genius + Soul = Jazz - Ray Charles (1961)

8. Loverman - Billie Holiday (1951)

9. My Favorite Things - John Coltrane (1961)

10. Live at the 5 Spot - Thelonious Monk (1957)

^^^ Every music aficionado should have those albums in their collection. Anybody that says those albums and/or that style of music is inferior to modern music (or 70s music) is a complete idiot. Furthermore, anybody who says those albums don't have the sonic quality of modern music is an idiot.

Nigga miles davis and dizzy are not equal to grandmaster fucking flash lmaooo. Before they changed the game there were forefathers of various types of music that built the foundation for jazz. Not to mention these legends were world class musicians same with Ray Charles who you mentioned. They were part of the golden ages of their type of music.

Look i respect the forefathers of hip hop. I just don't frequently bump that shit for the first years of rap. And i would rather be honest about it than be a poser pretending i listen to all these old ass niggas just to be cool.

So first its, "I l listen to Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder but I don't listen to 50s music".

Then its, "Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie were forefathers that built the foundation for jazz".

So which is it?

 

[MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14]

here's the thing...

somebody into rock in general will probably appreciate Hendrix, The Stones, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin just like people into hip hop can appreciate Scarface, Nas, Tribe, PE and so on.

But those rock people aren't likely listening to Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Little Richard or Rosetta Tharpe just like hip-hop fans aren't listening to Rapper's delight over and over.

It's partly because things have changed so much that those artists are basically a whole different genre and also because a lot of that stuff was really rough around the edges just like any beta version of a new invention. Then you gotta add on top of all that that a lot of people have heard all that music in the background a zillion times already growing up and it's just not fresh or exciting. Finally, people tend to hold on to the music that resonated with them when they were adolescents and teens and that shit probably wasn't for them at that time.

Not to mention nobody has time to hear a guy rap over a disco beat with made-up words for 8 minutes anymore.

This is 100% what i said in the first page or so and i am glad someone else gets it. B.B., Berry, Buddy (holly and guy), Muddy, all set the groundwork for the legends of the late 60's and 70's to have the golden era of rock and blues. But even me someone who is huge into rock doesn't listen to Little Richard or Buddy Holly like that.

Same thing with R&B i own every Stevie Wonder album on CD,MP3, or FLAC Lossless. But i don't listen to that shit from the 50's before him and honestly i don't even listen to much of his pre teen and teenage albums. I bump his classic era shit from the 70's.

Rap niggas like 5Grandpa don't get this and think the early days of hip hop is some sort of golden age just because they were young back when that era started.

If you don't listen to Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Miles Davis, Billie Holiday, Sarah Vaughn, Ella Fitzgerald and Ray Charles you don't know anything about music.

Seriously. if you've never heard God Bless The Child or A Night In Tunisia you should log off right now and go directly to Youtube.

I can name a handful of albums from the 50s and early 60s that are a must listen;

1. Bird and Diz - Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie (1952)

2. April in Paris - Charlie Parker (1957)

3. Birth of The Cool - Miles Davis (recorded in 1949/1950)

4. Kind Of Blue - Miles Davis (1957)

5. Sketches of Spain - Miles Davis (1957)

6. The Genius Of Ray Charles - Ray Charles (1959)

7. Genius + Soul = Jazz - Ray Charles (1961)

8. Loverman - Billie Holiday (1951)

9. My Favorite Things - John Coltrane (1961)

10. Live at the 5 Spot - Thelonious Monk (1957)

^^^ Every music aficionado should have those albums in their collection. Anybody that says those albums and/or that style of music is inferior to modern music (or 70s music) is a complete idiot. Furthermore, anybody who says those albums don't have the sonic quality of modern music is an idiot.

Nigga miles davis and dizzy are not equal to grandmaster fucking flash lmaooo. Before they changed the game there were forefathers of various types of music that built the foundation for jazz. Not to mention these legends were world class musicians same with Ray Charles who you mentioned. They were part of the golden ages of their type of music.

Look i respect the forefathers of hip hop. I just don't frequently bump that shit for the first years of rap. And i would rather be honest about it than be a poser pretending i listen to all these old ass niggas just to be cool.

So first its, "I l listen to Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder but I don't listen to 50s music".

Then its, "Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie were forefathers that built the foundation for jazz".

So which is it?

Can you read? I said that there were forefathers before Miles and Dizzy that built the foundation of jazz. Just like Nas and Tribe who i fuck with had Legends you are force feeding us to like and bump in the whip. And as far as Jazz i don't listen to much. I have been educated on the genre living in a music family but i don't listen to them.

Adults who like jazz listen to Miles and Dizzy they don't listen to the shit in the 1800s and early 19000s that led to it.

 

[Stomp Johnson]

@5 Grand, your mission is respectable but your methods are flawed and counterproductive bruh.

You tryna teach folks about the old school by dissin facets of newer, more evolved rap using lower common denominator stereotypes as ammo.

But to them the 90's and beyond is THEIR golden era.

How about uppin a "Who Sampled?" thread or makin one with your own twist. Alotta the 90s rappers paid homage to your golden era by sampling 70s & 80s hip hop.

Cube sampled "The Message" on "Check Yaself"

The Roots sampled Apache Bongo Band (a dope break beat) on "Thought @ Work".



The list goes on.

What you're trying to do is get folks to embrace music they have little regard for without bridging the gap.

Maybe if you show them how some of their favorite artists embraced and fucked with the architects of this shit, they'd speak of them with a little more reverence.

Or maybe fuckin not. Shit at the end of the day its still The Reason.

 

[5 Grand]

Can you read? I said that there were forefathers before Miles and Dizzy that built the foundation of jazz. Just like Nas and Tribe who i fuck with had Legends you are force feeding us to like and bump in the whip. And as far as Jazz i don't listen to much. I have been educated on the genre living in a music family but i don't listen to them.

Adults who like jazz listen to Miles and Dizzy they don't listen to the shit in the 1800s and early 19000s that led to it.

First of all, I'm an adult.

Second of all, there's two points that you brought up. People who listen to Miles and Dizzy and the fact that they don't listen to the stuff from the 1800s.

Recording technology was very primitive in the early 1900s. One of the first "pop" musicians (for lack of a better word) was Scott Joplin (1868-1917). Back in those days they had player pianos. They used to play the piano and whatever they played would be printed out on sheet music. Then they would sell the sheet music and if you had a player piano you could wind it up and it would play the song exactly as Scott Joplin played it. But that technology only worked for pianos (it didn't work for drums, saxophones, violins, etc.). So if you had a player piano you could buy sheet music for a party and the music would be playing all night. As far as I know, Scott Joplin was one of the earliest, what would be considered, "pop stars" in the music industry. I'm talking late 1800s/early1900s

Maple Leaf Rag (1899) - Scott Joplin


The Entertainer (1902) - Scott Joplin


^^^ So that's two of Scott Joplin's most famous songs. You've probably heard them before.

So yeah, I acknowledge Scott Joplin as the founder of modern music as we know it. Not saying I drive around and bump Scott Joplin but if you don't know his two biggest songs, Maple Leaf Rag (1899) and The Entertainer (1902) then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Likewise, the same can be said for old school Hip Hop. But I'm talking pre-recording era. I'm talking about the tapes that Troy L Smith sells. The tapes from 1977/78, before they started making records. I'm talking about the tape where Kool Moe Dee dissed Busy B at Harlem World back in 1981. Thats the stuff that could be considered "primitive" because it wasn't professionally recorded by our standards.

So just like somebody who listened to Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie from the 50s and 60s might not listen to Scott Joplin (but he should at least know who Scott Joplin is and know Maple Leaf Rag and The Entertainer). Likewise I can understand why a Hip Hop head might not listen to the tapes because they weren't professionally recorded. (I don't even listen to the tapes as much as some people I know. I know cats from Harlem and The Bronx that thats all they listen to).

But the difference is that when they started making rap records, the music was professionally recorded and there were professional session musicians, so the music was composed like R&B. Old School rap has crescendos and decreshendos that modern Hip Hop doesn't have. It was music. Then sometime in the mid 80s (Sucker MCs was the first song) Hip Hop producers threw the rulebook out the window and started making recordings that could no longer be considered "music" in the traditional sense because it didn't follow any of the rules of traditional music.

If you listen to Sucker MCs by Run DMC, there's no melody, there's no harmony, there's no chorus, there's no bridge. Its just an MC spitting lyrics (Run killed it btw).

Anyway, all I'm saying is that you'd be doing yourself a favor to listen to some of the early tapes and then listen to the early studio recordings. They're much more complicated than you're giving them credit.

I'd like to see anybody from the IC juggle a breakbeat on two turntables while another poster freestyles. It might seem easy but when the record skips you have to stay on beat. Nowadays they have Serato and Technics 1200 turntables with Shure M-447 needles, but back in the 70s Technics 1200s didn't exist yet.

Also people put The Roots on a pedestal because they are a band but ALL early rap recordings were backed by a band.

I'm just saying. I've been a member of the IC for about 5 years now and the only time there's a thread regarding old school Hip Hop is when I make one. And the name of the website is "allhiphop.com" which is kind of misleading because most of the posts are about new rap. There's more Drake threads than Grandmaster Flash threads. I'm just saying.

 

[5 Grand]

BTW, here's two more albums I recommend. Theres a Volume 1 and Volume 2. Volume 1 has a generic cover. This is the cover for Volume 2.

 

[blackrain]

You just forgot those leather outfits and tight ass clothes these niggas used to wear in the 80s?

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

@5 Grand, your mission is respectable but your methods are flawed and counterproductive bruh.

You tryna teach folks about the old school by dissin facets of newer, more evolved rap using lower common denominator stereotypes as ammo.

But to them the 90's and beyond is THEIR golden era.

How about uppin a "Who Sampled?" thread or makin one with your own twist. Alotta the 90s rappers paid homage to your golden era by sampling 70s & 80s hip hop.

Cube sampled "The Message" on "Check Yaself"

The Roots sampled Apache Bongo Band (a dope break beat) on "Thought @ Work".



The list goes on.

What you're trying to do is get folks to embrace music they have little regard for without bridging the gap.

Maybe if you show them how some of their favorite artists embraced and fucked with the architects of this shit, they'd speak of them with a little more reverence.

Or maybe fuckin not. Shit at the end of the day its still The Reason.

He don't need to bridge the gap. Plenty of niggas in here said they listen to old school rap (Run-DMC, LL, etc) but apparently they not old enough for him.

 

[MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14]

Can you read? I said that there were forefathers before Miles and Dizzy that built the foundation of jazz. Just like Nas and Tribe who i fuck with had Legends you are force feeding us to like and bump in the whip. And as far as Jazz i don't listen to much. I have been educated on the genre living in a music family but i don't listen to them.

Adults who like jazz listen to Miles and Dizzy they don't listen to the shit in the 1800s and early 19000s that led to it.

First of all, I'm an adult.

Second of all, there's two points that you brought up. People who listen to Miles and Dizzy and the fact that they don't listen to the stuff from the 1800s.

Recording technology was very primitive in the early 1900s. One of the first "pop" musicians (for lack of a better word) was Scott Joplin (1868-1917). Back in those days they had player pianos. They used to play the piano and whatever they played would be printed out on sheet music. Then they would sell the sheet music and if you had a player piano you could wind it up and it would play the song exactly as Scott Joplin played it. But that technology only worked for pianos (it didn't work for drums, saxophones, violins, etc.). So if you had a player piano you could buy sheet music for a party and the music would be playing all night. As far as I know, Scott Joplin was one of the earliest, what would be considered, "pop stars" in the music industry. I'm talking late 1800s/early1900s

Maple Leaf Rag (1899) - Scott Joplin


The Entertainer (1902) - Scott Joplin


^^^ So that's two of Scott Joplin's most famous songs. You've probably heard them before.

So yeah, I acknowledge Scott Joplin as the founder of modern music as we know it. Not saying I drive around and bump Scott Joplin but if you don't know his two biggest songs, Maple Leaf Rag (1899) and The Entertainer (1902) then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Likewise, the same can be said for old school Hip Hop. But I'm talking pre-recording era. I'm talking about the tapes that Troy L Smith sells. The tapes from 1977/78, before they started making records. I'm talking about the tape where Kool Moe Dee dissed Busy B at Harlem World back in 1981. Thats the stuff that could be considered "primitive" because it wasn't professionally recorded by our standards.

So just like somebody who listened to Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie from the 50s and 60s might not listen to Scott Joplin (but he should at least know who Scott Joplin is and know Maple Leaf Rag and The Entertainer). Likewise I can understand why a Hip Hop head might not listen to the tapes because they weren't professionally recorded. (I don't even listen to the tapes as much as some people I know. I know cats from Harlem and The Bronx that thats all they listen to).

But the difference is that when they started making rap records, the music was professionally recorded and there were professional session musicians, so the music was composed like R&B. Old School rap has crescendos and decreshendos that modern Hip Hop doesn't have. It was music. Then sometime in the mid 80s (Sucker MCs was the first song) Hip Hop producers threw the rulebook out the window and started making recordings that could no longer be considered "music" in the traditional sense because it didn't follow any of the rules of traditional music.

If you listen to Sucker MCs by Run DMC, there's no melody, there's no harmony, there's no chorus, there's no bridge. Its just an MC spitting lyrics (Run killed it btw).

Anyway, all I'm saying is that you'd be doing yourself a favor to listen to some of the early tapes and then listen to the early studio recordings. They're much more complicated than you're giving them credit.

I'd like to see anybody from the IC juggle a breakbeat on two turntables while another poster freestyles. It might seem easy but when the record skips you have to stay on beat. Nowadays they have Serato and Technics 1200 turntables with Shure M-447 needles, but back in the 70s Technics 1200s didn't exist yet.

Also people put The Roots on a pedestal because they are a band but ALL early rap recordings were backed by a band.

I'm just saying. I've been a member of the IC for about 5 years now and the only time there's a thread regarding old school Hip Hop is when I make one. And the name of the website is "allhiphop.com" which is kind of misleading because most of the posts are about new rap. There's more Drake threads than Grandmaster Flash threads. I'm just saying.

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

 

[huey]

some music is timeless, some of it is not

 

[D.D.S.]

So much terrible music being posted in here

 

[5 Grand]

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

 

[MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14]

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

I have been raised in music family. Blues/Jazz/and some R&B is much harder to make than Rap weather it was the early days or now. It is hard as fuck. The end product also is more likely to be timeless. Like i have said i don't listen to fucking sugarhill gang or grandmaster flash (i do respect it tho). to me most of that shit did not age well. Stevie wonder is timeles, Tribes Low end and MM are timeless and so is a shit ton of classic rock i listen to.

 

[huey]

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

Recording a break from another record is not sampling?

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

Nigga Rappers Delight was a sample.

 

[THE_R_]

AN 80'S ALBUM I BUMP ON THE REG IS CRITICAL BEATDOWN. ULTRAMAG WERE SO AHEAD OF THEIR TIME.

 

[5 Grand]

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

Recording a break from another record is not sampling?

Sampling requires, well, a sampler. A sampler is a digital "computer" for lack of a better word. It digitally records the music EXACTLY as it was played. Then you can manipulate the sample by speeding it up, slowing it down or filtering out the high end or filtering out the low end.

The first rap song that used a sample was If I Ruled The World by Kurtis Blow (1985). It sampled the drums from Pump It Up by Trouble Funk. Some of the earliest songs with samples were Eric B Is President by Eric B and Rakim, South Bronx by Boogie Down Productions and Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz by Biz Markie.

An interesting note is that Marley Marl was one of the first Hip Hop producers to sample. He was trying to sample the bassline from Impeach The President by The Honeydrippers and accidentally sampled the snare drum. Thats when he realized you could sample a kick and a snare from another record and create your own drumbeat. The Bridge by MC Shan was basically the kick and the snare from Impeach The President replayed.

Anyway, the early rap records from 1979-1982 weren't samples, they had a house band replay the music. Basically they were covers.

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

Nigga Rappers Delight was a sample.

Rappers Delight wasn't a sample. They replayed the break with a band.

A little piece of trivia, The Fairlight CMI was basically the first commercially available samplers. The first commercial pop song (not rap) to use a sample with the Fairlight CMI was Owner of A Lonely Heart by the band Yes.

Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes (1983)

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

Recording a break from another record is not sampling?

Sampling requires, well, a sampler. A sampler is a digital "computer" for lack of a better word. It digitally records the music EXACTLY as it was played. Then you can manipulate the sample by speeding it up, slowing it down or filtering out the high end or filtering out the low end.

The first rap song that used a sample was If I Ruled The World by Kurtis Blow (1985). It sampled the drums from Pump It Up by Trouble Funk. Some of the earliest songs with samples were Eric B Is President by Eric B and Rakim, South Bronx by Boogie Down Productions and Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz by Biz Markie.

An interesting note is that Marley Marl was one of the first Hip Hop producers to sample. He was trying to sample the bassline from Impeach The President by The Honeydrippers and accidentally sampled the snare drum. Thats when he realized you could sample a kick and a snare from another record and create your own drumbeat. The Bridge by MC Shan was basically the kick and the snare from Impeach The President replayed.

Anyway, the early rap records from 1979-1982 weren't samples, they had a house band replay the music. Basically they were covers.

I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.

1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.

2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.

I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime shit. So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.

But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier shit hasn't aged well.

You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.

When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.

Nigga Rappers Delight was a sample.

Rappers Delight wasn't a sample. They replayed the break with a band.



A little piece of trivia, The Fairlight CMI was basically the first commercially available samplers. The first commercial pop song (not rap) to use a sample with the Fairlight CMI was Owner of A Lonely Heart by the band Yes.

Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes (1983)

"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."

Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.

A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.

 

[5 Grand]

"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."

Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.

A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.

You're wrong but I'm not going to argue with you.

Faggots argue.

 

[Idiopathic Joker]

"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."

Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.

A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.

You're wrong but I'm not going to argue with you.

Faggots argue.

Faggots also...

You know what, nevermind