who better overall Big Pun or Biggie

[moedays]

i think BIG was more influenced by Chubb Rock. Listen to that dude Chubb Rock, another fat dude from Brooklyn with a deep voice and a nice flow.

 

[moedays]

Good ass thread. Nice arguments all around.

 

[Gen. Stasia]

Listen, Just because Pun rapped fast doesn't mean he had a better flow than B.I.G. Big had mad flows.

They aint tryin to hear u tho...

 

[Gen. Stasia]

LMAO, post me a track that sounds like Jay was influenced by Nas & B.I.G.

Jay-Z still GOAT tho..

I said sound like B.I.G. or Nas not sample their music or use their lyrics/paying homage. Jay is influenced by Jaz-O and Kane.

U said influenced but they dont Sound alike... Kane is one of the Obvious influences with Jay-Z

 

[rapmastermind]

@CirocObama

Yea because Fat Joe was doing those club tracks that appealed to the streets and mainstream like Big was? Pun blew with "Still Not a Player Remix" with Joe which was taken right from the RnB/Hip Hop Playbook Big popularized. Pun sampled Biggie on the album and bit lyrics yet you are arguing he didn't influence him? Big had influences I never said he didn't, every rapper does but he did create a lane that Pun followed in and was influenced by. Also It's not Hilarious I gave LAD 5 Mics cause critics, fans and the world agrees that it's a Classic, you are on an island with that. As for people taking my opinion seriously, it is what it is. I give my views on Hip Hop you either agree or you don't, I don't take it personal I just try to back up my opinions with enough research to form them.

 

[YamoleySensei]

Listen, Just because Pun rapped fast doesn't mean he had a better flow than B.I.G. Big had mad flows.

Listen, how about letting me have my own opinion and you stick by yours...simple enough, right?

 

[SheerExcellence]

big pun rapped fast and put a said a lot of words that ended in the syllable "illy"

but i never really liked his actual style all that much

same with busta rhymes

they rap fast and all but i can't play that shit that often, i get headaches

 

[CirocObama]

@CirocObama

Yea because Fat Joe was doing those club tracks that appealed to the streets and mainstream like Big was? Pun blew with "Still Not a Player Remix" with Joe which was taken right from the RnB/Hip Hop Playbook Big popularized. Pun sampled Biggie on the album and bit lyrics yet you are arguing he didn't influence him? Big had influences I never said he didn't, every rapper does but he did create a lane that Pun followed in and was influenced by. Also It's not Hilarious I gave LAD 5 Mics cause critics, fans and the world agrees that it's a Classic, you are on an island with that. As for people taking my opinion seriously, it is what it is. I give my views on Hip Hop you either agree or you don't, I don't take it personal I just try to back up my opinions with enough research to form them.

After reading your first sentence why bother. That is not why i brought up Fat Joe's name at all. But again you take yourself seriously, Biggie had GOAT flow, GOAT lyrics, every Lil Kim album is classic, Puff's albums are classic too, LAD is a 5 mic classic too whatever. Like i said most ppl here dont take your opinion seriously someone even said "in before rapmastermind" in this thread. So there's no reason to go back and forth with you.

 

[ocelot]

Joe was on that Flow Joe when he was with DITC...

 

[rapmastermind]

Like i said most ppl here dont take your opinion seriously someone even said "in before rapmastermind" in this thread. So there's no reason to go back and forth with you.

Acutally only 1 Lil Kim album is Classic and "No Way Out" might be a commercial Classic but it's 4 Mics overall. Big does have one of GOAT Flow, Not the Goat Lyrics but he was a strong lyricist and yes LAD is a Classic Ablum. Again speak for yourself cause you don't speak for every single person on this board. You or some others don't take me seriously, fine that's on you'll but you didn't even bring a good agruement to why I didn't make a point? I gave Pun plenty of props in my comment about him but I also gave my reasons he's not better than Big. If you don't agree, fine but you aren't in the minds of every single poster up here to speak for them. The mentioning of my name is only cause people know I can debate Big's legacy. But I can debate a lot legends Legacy not just Big.

 

[madisonstbully]

pun was a better lyricist but biggie was a better rapper and biggies two albums are much better then puns two albums

 

[CirocObama]

Like i said most ppl here dont take your opinion seriously someone even said "in before rapmastermind" in this thread. So there's no reason to go back and forth with you.

Acutally only 1 Lil Kim album is Classic and "No Way Out" might be a commercial Classic but it's 4 Mics overall. Big does have one of GOAT Flow, Not the Goat Lyrics but he was a strong lyricist and yes LAD is a Classic Ablum. Again speak for yourself cause you don't speak for every single person on this board. You or some others don't take me seriously, fine that's on you'll but you didn't even bring a good agruement to why I didn't make a point? I gave Pun plenty of props in my comment about him but I also gave my reasons he's not better than Big. If you don't agree, fine but you aren't in the minds of every single poster up here to speak for them. The mentioning of my name is only cause people know I can debate Big's legacy. But I can debate a lot legends Legacy not just Big.

Good that you're able to convince yourself that.

 

[Tommy bilfiger]

Bad decisions kept me out the game now Im strictly out for cream/doin shit to fiends I doubt you ever dreamed/My team's the meanest thing you ever seen/Measured by the heaven's King/down to the devil's mezzanine

 

[CirocObama]

pun was a better lyricist but biggie was a better rapper and biggies two albums are much better then puns two albums

Well to be honest you can only count Capital Punishment cuz by the time Yeah Baby came out Big Pun was way passed obese and couldnt even keep his breath control any more so..as far as albums Biggie had the upper class but as a rapper Big Pun > Biggie and i'm a fan of both. It's like arguing with 2pac fans though (whom im also a fan of) alot of these guys will take Biggie based on the fact of what their legacy became after their deaths and what it represented to hip-hop. So to alot of people Biggie and 2pac are like "the beginning" of hip-hop or their idea of "perfect MC's" based on their deaths and what their legacy became after. Talented rappers indeed but some of these niggas are even convinced that Biggie was better than Jay-Z which ain't true, and i like Biggie more than Jay-Z, so of course they gonna say that Biggie is better than Pun AS A RAPPER/MC.

I mean as much as i like the song Biggie did with Bone Thugs how much do niggas still be dickriding what Biggie did on it? This is supposedly "one of the greatest" and all he did was "rap faster" on it like y'all say Pun did but not as good and niggas will swear that Biggie had the best verse on it and like he just dropped a super ill outta this world verse when its common sense that Bizzy had the best verse. Niggas just been influenced by Puff's business dealings too much.

 

[SheerExcellence]

pun was a better lyricist but biggie was a better rapper and biggies two albums are much better then puns two albums

I mean as much as i like the song Biggie did with Bone Thugs how much do niggas still be dickriding what Biggie did on it? This is supposedly "one of the greatest" and all he did was "rap faster" on it like y'all say Pun did but not as good and niggas will swear that Biggie had the best verse on it and like he just dropped a super ill outta this world verse when its common sense that Bizzy had the best verse. Niggas just been influenced by Puff's business dealings too much.

i am not going to hate on you for liking pun better, thats your opinion, but u vastly underestimating what biggie did right there. biggie's LAD was the first (mainstream) rap album with a guy trying to rap with all different kinda flows from different regions, and pull it off. everyone does this now, but in 1995 for you to have a song with bone thugs where u pay homage to their style, then have a song with too short, where u pay homage to his style, then have a song with rza, where u get on ur grimey gutter nyc shit, then to have a song with mase and puff about flossing, then get into a pimped our laid back mode with r.kelly, then rap in a cali flow...

i mean that shit was big right there (no pun intended (no double pun intended))

when u just write it off as no big deal, its like u taking the importance of it outta the equation.

its like when dr. j did the foul line dunk, nowadays high school kids can do it, but that dont mean u discount the first one to do it

anyway ppl say biggie can't do what pun did, but i see no evidence of that

pun himself said his favorite two rappers are kool g rap and biggie, so pun himself is paying props

i didnt know pun, but he was a big fan of big and i dont think he woulda put himself on bigs level

furthermore, u say well pun got obese so we can't count his later work...

that is silly

pun had one great album

biggie had 2 albums (really 3 cause of double cd) and he had countless hits and singles and verses on other ppls shit

jsut in sheer product alone big had way more output than pun, which shows as an emcee he was able to last a long time. that should factor into who is better somehow? shouldn't it?

i mean you can't just say oh well iverson is better than kobe cause iverson had 6 great years, then got fat and lazy so we cant count the rest of his years. meanwhile kobe has 16 years of great play

i mean i guess u can say anything u want

but u can't compare one album of a guy to 80 songs of another guy where all 80 songs bump over a period of 4years

and then just say who is better

just my opinion

 

[YamoleySensei]

Listen, Just because Pun rapped fast doesn't mean he had a better flow than B.I.G. Big had mad flows.

Listen, how about letting me have my own opinion and you stick by yours...simple enough, right?

But it's a stupid opinion. How you feel if I said P had the best cuz he sounds good on every beat?

Everything on here is subjective, so whatever you say no matter how ridiculous it sounds is your opinion...niggas like you act like there's a hip hop manuscript that everyone should follow and what I'm saying is blasphemy...

 

[CirocObama]

pun was a better lyricist but biggie was a better rapper and biggies two albums are much better then puns two albums

I mean as much as i like the song Biggie did with Bone Thugs how much do niggas still be dickriding what Biggie did on it? This is supposedly "one of the greatest" and all he did was "rap faster" on it like y'all say Pun did but not as good and niggas will swear that Biggie had the best verse on it and like he just dropped a super ill outta this world verse when its common sense that Bizzy had the best verse. Niggas just been influenced by Puff's business dealings too much.

i am not going to hate on you for liking pun better, thats your opinion, but u vastly underestimating what biggie did right there. biggie's LAD was the first (mainstream) rap album with a guy trying to rap with all different kinda flows from different regions, and pull it off. everyone does this now, but in 1995 for you to have a song with bone thugs where u pay homage to their style, then have a song with too short, where u pay homage to his style, then have a song with rza, where u get on ur grimey gutter nyc shit, then to have a song with mase and puff about flossing, then get into a pimped our laid back mode with r.kelly, then rap in a cali flow...

i mean that shit was big right there (no pun intended (no double pun intended))

when u just write it off as no big deal, its like u taking the importance of it outta the equation.

its like when dr. j did the foul line dunk, nowadays high school kids can do it, but that dont mean u discount the first one to do it

anyway ppl say biggie can't do what pun did, but i see no evidence of that

pun himself said his favorite two rappers are kool g rap and biggie, so pun himself is paying props

i didnt know pun, but he was a big fan of big and i dont think he woulda put himself on bigs level

furthermore, u say well pun got obese so we can't count his later work...

that is silly

pun had one great album

biggie had 2 albums (really 3 cause of double cd) and he had countless hits and singles and verses on other ppls shit

jsut in sheer product alone big had way more output than pun, which shows as an emcee he was able to last a long time. that should factor into who is better somehow? shouldn't it?

i mean you can't just say oh well iverson is better than kobe cause iverson had 6 great years, then got fat and lazy so we cant count the rest of his years. meanwhile kobe has 16 years of great play

i mean i guess u can say anything u want

but u can't compare one album of a guy to 80 songs of another guy where all 80 songs bump over a period of 4years

and then just say who is better

just my opinion

See thats where you wrong. I actually like Pun alot but i like Biggie better it's just that i can still admit that Pun's better.

Btw i didnt meant "dont count" as in "dont bring it up" that basically meant "yeah that album was pretty bad so you dont even need to compare it to LAD, minus a few joints, but it was due to his health reasons". Hence why he even died 2 months prior to the album dropping the same damn year.

Man alot of you cats dont seem to understand a single thing i'm saying here.

 

[Idiopathic Joker]

Lol @ niggas thinking puns skill was just rappin fast. Ya niggas need to listen to his shit.

Mad wordplay, metaphors, and overall lyricism.

 

[SheerExcellence]

pun was a better lyricist but biggie was a better rapper and biggies two albums are much better then puns two albums

I mean as much as i like the song Biggie did with Bone Thugs how much do niggas still be dickriding what Biggie did on it? This is supposedly "one of the greatest" and all he did was "rap faster" on it like y'all say Pun did but not as good and niggas will swear that Biggie had the best verse on it and like he just dropped a super ill outta this world verse when its common sense that Bizzy had the best verse. Niggas just been influenced by Puff's business dealings too much.

i am not going to hate on you for liking pun better, thats your opinion, but u vastly underestimating what biggie did right there. biggie's LAD was the first (mainstream) rap album with a guy trying to rap with all different kinda flows from different regions, and pull it off. everyone does this now, but in 1995 for you to have a song with bone thugs where u pay homage to their style, then have a song with too short, where u pay homage to his style, then have a song with rza, where u get on ur grimey gutter nyc shit, then to have a song with mase and puff about flossing, then get into a pimped our laid back mode with r.kelly, then rap in a cali flow...

i mean that shit was big right there (no pun intended (no double pun intended))

when u just write it off as no big deal, its like u taking the importance of it outta the equation.

its like when dr. j did the foul line dunk, nowadays high school kids can do it, but that dont mean u discount the first one to do it

anyway ppl say biggie can't do what pun did, but i see no evidence of that

pun himself said his favorite two rappers are kool g rap and biggie, so pun himself is paying props

i didnt know pun, but he was a big fan of big and i dont think he woulda put himself on bigs level

furthermore, u say well pun got obese so we can't count his later work...

that is silly

pun had one great album

biggie had 2 albums (really 3 cause of double cd) and he had countless hits and singles and verses on other ppls shit

jsut in sheer product alone big had way more output than pun, which shows as an emcee he was able to last a long time. that should factor into who is better somehow? shouldn't it?

i mean you can't just say oh well iverson is better than kobe cause iverson had 6 great years, then got fat and lazy so we cant count the rest of his years. meanwhile kobe has 16 years of great play

i mean i guess u can say anything u want

but u can't compare one album of a guy to 80 songs of another guy where all 80 songs bump over a period of 4years

and then just say who is better

just my opinion

See thats where you wrong. I actually like Pun alot but i like Biggie better it's just that i can still admit that Pun's better.

Btw i didnt meant "dont count" as in "dont bring it up" that basically meant "yeah that album was pretty bad so you dont even need to compare it to LAD, minus a few joints, but it was due to his health reasons". Hence why he even died 2 months prior to the album dropping the same damn year.

Man alot of you cats dont seem to understand a single thing i'm saying here.

i understand your point

and im not saying who you should like better, you a grown man and u can like what u want, we just debating for the sake of it

its all fun, it dont mean shit, we just talking about music

im just saying if some dude comes out and makes one great movie and then a horrible movie (because he was sick), how can u compare that to a guy who makes 4 or 5 great movies?

in essence im saying u gotta give some credit for ability to make many songs over a long period of time

i mean lets take it to the extreme

some ppl hear jay electronica exhibit c

that is all they hear

they only heard one song from dude

then they say "oh shit this nigga the best that ever did it!!!"

im not saying this is what you are saying, mind you, im just saying of course anyone can sound like the best ever on one verse

many ppl would be like "man based on exhibit c alone, electronica is better than jay-z"

i actually read ppl saying that on this board

no if u like electronica or not, thats ur opinino

but how can one verse make u better than a dude that has 10 albums?

thats all im saying

ppl dont even know if electronica can make a full album, let alone ten

we dont know what pun could have done, maybe he could have had as many hits as biggie and ended up with another classic

but he didnt

and we all know its hard to keep staying fresh once ppl have expectations that are so high

biggie did that

song after song

from 1993-1996

big pun did not do that

so im just saying fact that he was able to stay on top and drop hit after hit after hit

for 36+ months

has to count for something

its hard to keep ppls attention, so u cant just discount the longevity as if thats not important

many ppl hate on jay-z now, for instance, and thats fine

but name ur favorite rapper, and tell me if he can make 14 albums of him talkingn and u still liking all of them

that is rare

just the fact u can last that long gotta show something

so i guess in essence im just saying it is silly to compare pun who made one real album to biggie who made at least 80=90 songs that still get played today

its not a fair comparison cause pun didnt have a chance to fail

 

[rapmastermind]

Also as much as I love "Capitol Punishment", it is a Classic. Pun basically had the whole industry on that record:

Wyclef

NORE

Black Thought

Joe

Ms. Jones

Funkmaster Flex

Terror Squad (Fat Joe, Cuban Linx, Triple S., Armageddon)

Prospect

Dead Prez

Prodigy

Inspectah Deck

Busta Rhymes

That's a lot of famous guest appearances for a debut. I guess this was like a rap tryout for Pun cause he shinned through the whole record.