Was Jesus referring to Yahweh/Jehovah or someone else???

[bignorm73]

The Old Testament says we were created by Yahweh and as you see I showed you that he has a body...

But the Father Jesus is referring to is INVISIBLE and was NEVER seen or heard... Didn't Adam & Eve speak to Yahweh? which means they heard his voice!

Colossians 1:15

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

John 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

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let the scriptures speak!

John 1:18

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

I never said he did not have a body. That is not to be argued.

Dont remember Jesus saying he is invisible. He said only one from god can see him. So he must have an image.

Please understand this. You and folks like you who try to read a writing with dozens of books written over centuries trying to point out contratictions,

understand this: those you lead astray were not there in the first place. What you have a problem with is the definition of faith.

Which is believing in something that you dont have absolute proof of. Christianity by defintion cant be proven.

True christians know this. The "proof" is thru our personal relationship with christ, and the truth he places in our hearts.

Thanks tho.

 

[beenwize]

I never said he did not have a body. That is not to be argued.
Dont remember Jesus saying he is invisible. He said only one from god can see him. So he must have an image.
Please understand this. You and folks like you who try to read a writing with dozens of books written over centuries trying to point out contratictions,
understand this: those you lead astray were not there in the first place. What you have a problem with is the definition of faith.

Which is believing in something that you dont have absolute proof of. Christianity by defintion cant be proven.
True christians know this. The "proof" is thru our personal relationship with christ, and the truth he places in our hearts.

Thanks tho.

Proverbs 14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

PEACE

 

[bignorm73]

Proverbs 14:15

The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

PEACE

lol. It's peace now.

Trust me, i have looked. Have sat in Humanities classes with professors who believe what you believe

and were more brilliant than you. The same thing comes up, do you have faith or not? The same bible, and even

book (Proverbs) which teaches you to have faith, is the same one you try to use to dissuade it.

It doesnt work.

 

[beenwize]

u need to learn how to read...

i was clearly referring to

ex 24:10
ex 19:19
deu 4:33

those were the scrips u posted in yur original post, which have the word god/elohim and NOT YHWH.

ITS LORD WHICH IS TRANSLATED FROM YHWH, which once again is still in reference to the god/elohim that is doing acts on the most high's behalf.

It doesn't matter because in the scriptures I quoted for you with links it says that Yahweh was SEEN and HEARD.... Yeshua stated nobody has every seen or heard his Father.

And no if it referred to angels it would have said so in the scriptures... Don't make up your own interpretation.

 

[beenwize]

lol. It's peace now.

Trust me, i have looked. Have sat in Humanities classes with professors who believe what you believe

and were more brilliant than you. The same thing comes up, do you have faith or not? The same bible, and even

book (Proverbs) which teaches you to have faith, is the same one you try to use to dissuade it.

It doesnt work.

Lol

Galatians 4:16

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

 

[bignorm73]

It doesn't matter because in the scriptures I quoted for you with links it says that Yahweh was SEEN and HEARD.... Yeshua stated nobody has every seen or heard his Father.

He said that no one present had heard him. Point out where he said no one ever had heard him.

Thanks.

 

[bignorm73]

Lol

Galatians 4:16

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Who has deemed what you say the truth. And tho you may like to think

you rile people up, you dont. I see this the same as answering my 4 year old daughters questions.

Not an enemy at all. I just see you like the dozens of people in my Humanities and Latin classes back in the day

who left that semester with no faith left, because an educated man, like yourself, pointed out things that could

be rebuffed, but they did not have the courage or faith to do so. I love it because it reinforces my own Faith.

 

[beenwize]

He said that no one present had heard him. Point out where he said no one ever had heard him.

Thanks.

really?

let the scriptures speak!

John 1:18

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

 

[One Spliff]

It doesn't matter because in the scriptures I quoted for you with links it says that Yahweh was SEEN and HEARD.... Yeshua stated nobody has every seen or heard his Father.

yes and i've explained why this was in the other thread.

the OT was recorded/copied and interpreted by men, not to mention israel had fallen to idolotry at the time the OT was recorded by ezra, i explain this.

also its a style of wiriting...for exmaple...

EXODUS 24:9Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

12And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them


notice in the 10th verse it says god(elohim/angel) but later in the 12th verse it reverts back to lord (yhwh)...

we both know the most high YHWH doesn't have the shape or form of a man and can not be seen, just like jesus stated.

so this is either a personal interpretation from the recorder, or just the style in which it was written.

 

[bignorm73]

really?

let the scriptures speak!

John 1:18

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

All those are about sight. Post one about voice.

 

[bignorm73]

Thread needs theme music.

[video=youtube;T1Y79quJoi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Y79quJoi4&ob=av2e[/video]

 

[beenwize]

yes and i've explained why this was in the other thread.

the OT was recorded/copied and interpreted by men, not to mention israel had fallen to idolotry at the time the OT was recorded by ezra, i explain this.

also its a style of wiriting...for exmaple...

EXODUS 24:9Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

12And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them



notice in the 10th verse it says god(elohim/angel) but later in the 12th verse it reverts back to lord (yhwh)...

we both know the most high YHWH doesn't have the shape or form of a man and can not be seen, just like jesus stated.

so this is either a personal interpretation from the recorder, or just the style in which it was written.

then you are basicly saying your Bible is the Word of Men... I'm just working off the scriptures as it is and not off speculation at the moment.

PEACE

 

[bignorm73]

then you are basicly saying your Bible is the Word of Men... I'm just working off the scriptures as it is and not off speculation at the moment.

PEACE

When Homer put centuries of oral tradition on paper,

who was the author of that work?

Homer, or the people who told him?

If god speaks to/inspires you to write words,

when those words are put on paper, whose words are they?

If i tell you a story, and you write it,

are those not still my words? or are they yours?

If god told the authors to write, they are still gods words man.

NOt the words of man. Man's inperfections can get into the work, because man is not perfect.

 

[One Spliff]

then you are basicly saying your Bible is the Word of Men... I'm just working off the scriptures as it is and not off speculation at the moment.

PEACE

the original scrolls of the prophets and scribes no longer exist, the closet u will get it the dead sea scrolls, not to mention the translation into english.

if you have a time machine and cango back 3500 years to the time of moses, then please do...then u can come back n translate for us, otherwise ur guna need to use common sense....

of course it was written by men, thats why it has so many contradictions and errors...i explained this in the other thread....but with knowledge and common sense u can put together the peices of the puzzle.

 

[beenwize]

All those are about sight. Post one about voice.

I've shown u that scripture already...

 

[beenwize]

the original scrolls of the prophets and scribes no longer exist, the closet u will get it the dead sea scrolls, not to mention the translation into english.

if you have a time machine and cango back 3500 years to the time of moses, then please do...then u can come back n translate for us, otherwise ur guna need to use common sense....

of course it was written by men, thats why it has so many contradictions and errors...i explained this in the other thread....but with knowledge and common sense u can put together the peices of the puzzle.

i agree with most of what u say... it has been through many hands and the Roman empire.

 

[Disciplined InSight]

Thread needs theme music.
[video=youtube;T1Y79quJoi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Y79quJoi4&ob=av2e[/video]

Underrated song and video.

 

[bignorm73]

I've shown u that scripture already...

No you havent. You showed a post where he was talking directly to a group of people.

The other scriptures, in which it was clear he was talking to humanity, are about seeing Gods true form,

not a burning bush, etc.

You also know that when you go into the Hebrew, that that language is much more specific and descriptive than english.

That if he wanted to say it to all of humanity, he could have. But he said a form of "you".

So i ask again, point out a scripture where he tells humanity that we have never heard God's voice.

And since the bible had several verses that often talk about the same point, post a few.

Thanks.

 

[bignorm73]

Underrated song and video.

Love that song. I dont even like to come in here, cuz its just educated trolls. smh.

but that leap dude made, i had to say something.

 

[beenwize]

No you havent. You showed a post where he was talking directly to a group of people.
The other scriptures, in which it was clear he was talking to humanity, are about seeing Gods true form,
not a burning bush, etc.

You also know that when you go into the Hebrew, that that language is much more specific and descriptive than english.
That if he wanted to say it to all of humanity, he could have. But he said a form of "you".

So i ask again, point out a scripture where he tells humanity that he have never heard God's voice.
And since the bible had several verses that often talk about the same point, post a few.

Thanks.

As u say he says nobody ever seen god at any time

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

And here no one has heard the voice of God or seen his shape. He is giving a witness and notice HE SAYS AT ANY TIME

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.