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Very good read about Rocafella, Dame,Jay,Clark Kent,Foxy,etc and y they broke up
hnic1978;876183 said:I got a question based on everything we know about Dame, do you think Jay would be on the level he is right now if he was with Dame or would he still be street level???
In my own opinion. NO!!! Jayz would still be in Marcy. It's been proven over and over that Dame went to bat for hiim several times when, many felt Jayz wasn't talented enough for the business thus, his prior 10 years of trying to break through.
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Kwan Dai;876216 said:In my own opinion. NO!!! Jayz would still be in Marcy. It's been proven over and over that Dame went to bat for hiim several times when, many felt Jayz wasn't talented enough for the business thus, his prior 10 years of trying to break through.
That is besides the point. The thing is no matter how you cut it, Jay Z WAS the talent. Yes, Dash was in lots of ways responsible for the success but it's not like he did not reap the fruits of his work. Right now Jay Z is making much bigger moves than Dash.
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curtis75black
New member
hnic1978;876183 said:I got a question based on everything we know about Dame, do you think Jay would be on the level he is right now if he was with Dame or would he still be street level???
Do you mean if he wasn't rapping ? If he wasn't the star he became, no - not at all. If was rapping, I feel he would've eventually got there to some degree.
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great l;876242 said:That is besides the point. The thing is no matter how you cut it, Jay Z WAS the talent. Yes, Dash was in lots of ways responsible for the success but it's not like he did not reap the fruits of his work. Right now Jay Z is making much bigger moves than Dash.
What's beside the point? That Dash continually supported a broke artist who couldn't get deal for 10 years? You aren't making any sense. Execs aren't just mouth pieces but the financial backing and in some instances (which I believe is the case here) the very people that advise artists to revise their Music to fit into their marketing and promotional visions.
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Kwan Dai;876269 said:What's beside the point? That Dash continually supported a broke artist who couldn't get deal for 10 years? You aren't making any sense. Execs aren't just mouth pieces but the financial backing and in some instances (which I believe is the case here) the very people that advise artists to revise their Music to fit into their marketing and promotional visions.
Now, you are obviously tripping. First of all Dame didn't support shit, they all pooled their funds together. Hence Rocafella was a co-ownership. You are talking like Dash was making huge moves at that time. No. He believed in Jay's skill and knew that someday they would break through and that's why he kept pushing Jay.
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curtis75black;876258 said:Do you mean if he wasn't rapping ? If he wasn't the star he became, no - not at all. If was rapping, I feel he would've eventually got there to some degree.
I think i worded this wrong. At the point of the breakup if Jay was to have stayed with Dame would he be where he is right now know how much people started to hate doin business with Dame??
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hnic1978;876670 said:I think i worded this wrong. At the point of the breakup if Jay was to have stayed with Dame would he be where he is right now know how much people started to hate doin business with Dame??
No way. The about business is ruthlessness and being brash only gets you so far. Charisma, wit, and knowledge will take you much further.
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great l;876910 said:No way. The about business is ruthlessness and being brash only gets you so far. Charisma, wit, and knowledge will take you much further.
This is why Jay had to make the move he made. Check this out while Dame had a good point look how he comes across[video=youtube;Ip7RGul2o30]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7RGul2o30[/video]
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hnic1978;876183 said:I got a question based on everything we know about Dame, do you think Jay would be on the level he is right now if he was with Dame or would he still be street level???
I definitely talent will always find a way to make it or i should say special talent (Nas,Jay,Big,Snoop), Dame wasn't the one making those hit records. i think Jay and Dame went as far as they could go. It's kind of like the movie Casino with Deniro and Pesci, Pesci was the muscle and useful on the street shit but once Deniro was tryna do bigger things he knew he couldn't take him with him.
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hnic1978;876670 said:I think i worded this wrong. At the point of the breakup if Jay was to have stayed with Dame would he be where he is right now know how much people started to hate doin business with Dame??
No he wouldn't have made to the point he is now had he stayed with Dame. Dame, was branded the Angry NEGRO. The Ass Hole. The same business practices and qualities that Dame had ruin Black Businessmen while White Businessman can continue doing business at a high level.
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hnic1978;876975 said:This is why Jay had to make the move he made. Check this out while Dame had a good point look how he comes across[video=youtube;Ip7RGul2o30]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7RGul2o30[/video]
So, you are upset that this Man doesn't back down and fought for his company to succeed? I don't get this..
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Kwan Dai;877051 said:No he wouldn't have made to the point he is now had he stayed with Dame. Dame, was branded the Angry NEGRO. The Ass Hole. The same business practices and qualities that Dame had ruin Black Businessmen while White Businessman can continue doing business at a high level.
Cuz when Black Businessmen get "rich" they lose their damn mind, burn bridges with everybody, and then when shit goes bad end up being bought out by the "wealthy" white businessmen
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Kwan Dai;877069 said:So, you are upset that this Man doesn't back down and fought for his company to succeed? I don't get this..
U didn't see what a wrote at the top. He had a legitimate argument VERY LEGIT, but he was cussing out and insulting one of the top heads of Def Jam. Instead of them understanding that Dame was right, Kevin Liles probably went back saying THAT BALD HEADED BASTARD!!!!!
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usmarin3;876995 said:I definitely talent will always find a way to make it or i should say special talent (Nas,Jay,Big,Snoop), Dame wasn't the one making those hit records. i think Jay and Dame went as far as they could go. It's kind of like the movie Casino with Deniro and Pesci, Pesci was the muscle and useful on the street shit but once Deniro was tryna do bigger things he knew he couldn't take him with him.
No but it was Clark Kent who was behind the boards and knew what it would take to make a hit record.FOXXY? Yall, give Jay waaay to much credit. Like he did this shit all on his own. He needed co-signs from Clark, Dame, and Biggie to get on when, no one absolutely no one wanted to fuck with him. It's like yall are just ignoring the article.
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hnic1978;877090 said:Cuz when Black Businessmen get "rich" they lose their damn mind, burn bridges with everybody, and then when shit goes bad end up being bought out by the "wealthy" white businessmen
If, Dame wasn't aggressive there would have been no LABEL and he would have ended up broke and doing something he didn't Love to do. I see you aren't getting the gist here. You just want a BlackMan to roll over and be a bitch about his Business. Only White Businessman can be aggressive and ambitions? I got you!!
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usmarin3;877106 said:Why do people think the approach that Dame took is the only approach, there are lots of successful execs who aren't angry. Look at Steve Stoute, LA Reid, etc.
I don't recall either of these two execs. Fighting thier way through the Ranks of HIP HOP. A genre that was a bastard child and not taken seriously. Here again, every Blackman has to play the I am the Negro role to make it and continue making it. Thanks for throwing us all in one box. L.A. had his way, Steve had his way and Dame had his. That's call diversity. White businessman have the pleasure of not having to be clones of each other.
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Kwan Dai;877118 said:No but it was Clark Kent who was behind the boards and knew what it would take to make a hit record.FOXXY? Yall, give Jay waaay to much credit. Like he did this shit all on his own. He needed co-signs from Clark, Dame, and Biggie to get on when, no one absolutely no one wanted to fuck with him. It's like yall are just ignoring the article.
Its not that we give Jay too much credit cuz YES Dame played his part. But Dame is a victim of more of his own ignorance than anything. As much people wanna blame Jay for his downfall, people need to blame Dame himself too!!!
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Kwan Dai;877118 said:No but it was Clark Kent who was behind the boards and knew what it would take to make a hit record.FOXXY? Yall, give Jay waaay to much credit. Like he did this shit all on his own. He needed co-signs from Clark, Dame, and Biggie to get on when, no one absolutely no one wanted to fuck with him. It's like yall are just ignoring the article.
Then how do you account for the rest of his career, Clark hasn't even fucked with Jay on the production tip since Reasonable Doubt. No one is denying that he had help along the way just like how Biggie had Mr. Cee, Nas had MC Search, Snoop had Warren G,etc, no one does it by themselves but at the end of the day IT'S THE TALENT THAT'S THE DRIVING FORCE. Connections can only get you so far !
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