Trayvon Martin Case.... the plot thickens

[fiat_money]

yeah, make sure you dont take into account any facts or details. good call.

The fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon even though he was told not to. Then chased him down and shot him? The only thing that should be investigated is whether it's manslaughter or not. There should be no discussion of whether the shooting was justified.

The bolded is not illegal, and the underlined is conjecture.

I never said it was illegal to follow somebody, the facts are that Zimmerman followed him when he was told not to. Which could be used against him.

Can't be used against him if there was nothing legally wrong with it.

Besides, he was told "We don’t need you to do that."; so that doesn't even count as being told not to follow Treyvon.

Furthermore, according to the 911 recording, within 15 seconds of being told "We don’t need you to do that.", he was no longer following Treyvon.

Ok then explain why it can't be used against him. The reason he was told to not follow him was because the police would be there to investigate. If he had turned back around and went home this thread wouldn't exist.

If he stopped following him how did Zimmerman manage to shoot Trayvon? When reports said he chased down the kid?

What reports say he "chased down" Treyvon?

By "chased down" are you saying that he chased Treyvon until he caught up to him?

Dead @ that info graph. How the fuck did they know treyvon was hiding on a patio? Also it doesn't explain how supposedly treyvon decked zimmerman from behind. Unless treyvon appeared out of ninja dust behind him.

There's a disclaimer way at the bottom of the post.

 

[Trillaaaaaa]

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

 

[In Your Moms Room]

From the rumor section

Well, lets get the first thing out of the way. We cannot name names at this time, but this is a massive development from what we are hearing. We are getting word that two veteran megastars in Hip-Hop are working on a major song in honor of Trayvon. Now, the real part is that these two are to of the most respected in the game.

The are the perfect ones to make the proper connection to all the other big name rappers (and even some singers) to get a “We Are The World” type of song for Trayvon and the others that have been victim of racism and abuses of “authority.”

Sorry, we cannot offer more details at this time, but things are at an early stage right now. Click here for all of our coverage and opinions on Trayvon and others like him. Stay tuned. Hopefully we’ll have more to offer in a bit.

 

[Chef_Taylor]

From the rumor section

Well, lets get the first thing out of the way. We cannot name names at this time, but this is a massive development from what we are hearing. We are getting word that two veteran megastars in Hip-Hop are working on a major song in honor of Trayvon. Now, the real part is that these two are to of the most respected in the game.

The are the perfect ones to make the proper connection to all the other big name rappers (and even some singers) to get a “We Are The World” type of song for Trayvon and the others that have been victim of racism and abuses of “authority.”

Sorry, we cannot offer more details at this time, but things are at an early stage right now. Click here for all of our coverage and opinions on Trayvon and others like him. Stay tuned. Hopefully we’ll have more to offer in a bit.

Still wont change the fact that zimmerman will get off.

 

[In Your Moms Room]

This is what somebody on rants and raves said

Anyone one else tired of this hood who was portryed in the media as innocent? The picture they presented to the public was a five year old not the 17 year old gangsta he was. Are you kidding? The police investegated the incident and didnt deem it a chargable offense, his Mother is trying to make money off her kid by copy-righting his name, really...is this a reaction from a heart striken Mother....i think not..... Lets not forget all the victims on black against white murders...come on, whites arent the only bigotted people in this country.....And stop thinking this country owes you anything for slavery that neither you, your parents or even grandparents were ever held in chains. Take some responsibility and find a job like the rest of us and stop collected off the government with welfare.

This is how i responded. I feel i dropped some either.

First, he was no gangsta, as you say. He was an athlete and an A and B student.

Second, Zimmerman is half white half hispanic.

Third, worst case scenario and Travon was beating up Zimmerman, which he wasn't, you have to be a complete bitch to shoot somebody because you are losing in a fight.

Fourth, the more zimmermans family talks, the more dumb they sound. His brother is now saying, he wasn't on neighborhood watch. He was going to target, with his gun in a gated community. That makes me laugh. I guess people carry guns when they walk to target now.

Fifth, the story of Travon beating up Zimmerman is false, because the police video shows know signs of it. The coroner said Travon's body show know signs of being in a fight, as far as scrapes or bruises on his knuckles.

Sixth, There are more WHITE people on welfare then BLACK.

 

[fiat_money]

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

Who is "everyone else"?

 

[Trillaaaaaa]

False dichotomy. If

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

Who is "everyone else"?

Let me rephrase that, It SEEMS Zimmerman was the agressor by everyone else's account i.e. Trayvon's girlfriend and the two female witnesses

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

You committed the fallacy of attacking the motive. The fact that Zimmerman has much to gain/lose in this situation is irrelevant to what he has actually said.

The fact of the matter is as you've stated: Trayvon has been established as attempting to escape, and Zimmerman was the one chasing.

Never said anything of the sort. You're conflating other folk's posts with mine. Put down the Heineken and and step ypur grammar game up

Also Zimmerman lying about his actions on that night have nothing to do with motive. We all already know his motive, which was to Play John Wayne and protect the neighborhood from a threatening Black guy.

A person lying about the events that took place the night they committed a crime actually has nothing to do with the motive of said crime

 

[bow to royalty]

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

Not at all what I said. I said if Zimmerman started the fight he should go to jail. I'm saying if Trayvon started the fight, THEN it may be self defense. I'm not really goin by what Zimmerman said, but I'm acknowledging that it may be true. And Zimmerman and Trayvon were the only ones who were there from beginning. So if you're ignoring Zimmerman's account, then ur going by no one's account...and just believing what you want to believe. Only thing I've heard from witnesses is that they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beatin him up.

People need to stop focusing on Zimmerman following Trayvon because that's not relevant really. What's important is how the confrontation turned physical. In fact let me make a list of the irrelevant distractions people are bringing up.

-Zimmerman followed Trayvon when he was told he didn't need to do that. That's not illegal. So asking the legal system to take action because of it is foolish

-Zimmerman called the police all the time Not illegal. In fact promoted by the police.

-Zimmerman was racially profiling Trayvon Not illegal to be suspicious of someone because they're black. Being a racist is ignorant, but not illegal

 

[MR.CJ]

It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

 

[fiat_money]

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

Who is "everyone else"?

Let me rephrase that, It SEEMS Zimmerman was the agressor by everyone else's account i.e. Trayvon's girlfriend and the two female witnesses

Did any of them actually witness the beginning of the altercation?

 

[bow to royalty]

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

Who is "everyone else"?

Let me rephrase that, It SEEMS Zimmerman was the agressor by everyone else's account i.e. Trayvon's girlfriend and the two female witnesses

Did any of them actually witness the beginning of the altercation?

Exactly what I'm sayin. People are believin what they want to believe. They say Zimmerman's lyin, but don't have anyone they can say is tellin the truth

 

[fiat_money]

It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

They can't confirm that the voice was Treyvon's either, so their conclusion holds less weight than the eyewitness who says he saw Zimmerman screaming to him for help.

 

[bow to royalty]

It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Word, this is why I said I wasn't decided yet. Now they need to do a voice test showing it's Trayvon though.

 

[desertrain10]

It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

They can't confirm that the voice was Treyvon's either, so their conclusion holds less weight than the eyewitness who says he saw Zimmerman screaming to him for help.

are you talking about "john"....the witness who came forward weeks after the murder. who wouldn't reveal his identity to the press?

maybe both men were at one point in time crying for help..... not to far fetched....but i dunno....

all we know now at least according to the words of 2 leading experts in the field of voice forensics is that the person crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot is not zimmerman... so it had to have been trayvon....

this along with the 911 tapes, zimmerman's shaky story, trayvons gf's testimony, the police surveillance video, zimmerman's history of violent behavior is more than enough to have him arrested... they can't bs any longer

 

[Trillaaaaaa]

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

Who is "everyone else"?

Let me rephrase that, It SEEMS Zimmerman was the agressor by everyone else's account i.e. Trayvon's girlfriend and the two female witnesses

Did any of them actually witness the beginning of the altercation?

No, and this is where Zimmerman's story all conveniently comes together in favor of him. Trayvon unfortunately doesn't have the luxury to tell his side.

@bow. See I get what you saying but what is suspicious? Okay there were break ins all committed by black men, so I might give u that one. But then Zimmerman went overboard talking about he looks like he is on drugs, like he is up to something and he looks suspicious. Having black skin and walking is suspicious now even though that neighborhood is almost half black? This dude wanted to catch a robber in action and left his common sense behind to do so. To me suspicious is walking in circles or looking through someone's window or starting at a particular house, not just walking. And honestly we all know someone who was stopped by police because they looked like some suspect they are chasing but once you take it to that next level and kill them, there is no excuse and you should be in jail.

Dude was definitely overzealous. And if he started the fight I think he should go to jail. But if he didn't, then I dunno. If Trayvon started the fight, then had Zimmerman on the ground screamin for help, and no one was comin to help. Then he may be justified in shooting him.

So when a dude starts a fight he can't finish and decides to pull out his pistol and shoot him instead, you consider that's self defense?

BTW you keep going by Zimmerman's story when he has the most to gain by claiming he was getting "beat to death".

Zimmerman was the aggressor by everyone else's account. I don't get why you're defending him so vehemently

Not at all what I said. I said if Zimmerman started the fight he should go to jail. I'm saying if Trayvon started the fight, THEN it may be self defense. I'm not really goin by what Zimmerman said, but I'm acknowledging that it may be true. And Zimmerman and Trayvon were the only ones who were there from beginning. So if you're ignoring Zimmerman's account, then ur going by no one's account...and just believing what you want to believe. Only thing I've heard from witnesses is that they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beatin him up.

People need to stop focusing on Zimmerman following Trayvon because that's not relevant really. What's important is how the confrontation turned physical. In fact let me make a list of the irrelevant distractions people are bringing up.

-Zimmerman followed Trayvon when he was told he didn't need to do that. That's not illegal. So asking the legal system to take action because of it is foolish

-Zimmerman called the police all the time Not illegal. In fact promoted by the police.

-Zimmerman was racially profiling Trayvon Not illegal to be suspicious of someone because they're black. Being a racist is ignorant, but not illegal

I'm not ignoring Zimmerman's account at all. I've acknowledged it the entire time. In fact we're discussing that very topic. It just seems implausible to me since Trayvon was the one being pursued and Zimmerman was the one who initiated the altercation considering the FACT he was told by 911 operators to not continue to follow the "suspect". Zimmerman following him is completely relevant because the shooting would've never occurred had he not followed him.

Now say Zimmerman's account is actually true. A strange man stalks an individual and said strange man isn't an officer but happens to be armed, the two proceed to engage in a fight. Common sense dictates that the unarmed individual being stalked is actually the one in position to self defend himself. So even if Zimmerman is being truthful, which I doubt, Trayvon was actually the one standing his ground.

You mentioned a lot of bullshit about how what Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal. Okay, this is true. But neither was Martin. Playing field is leveled at that junction. An armed man who has absolutely no level of authority can't just start a fight (yes, by perusing someone he was advised not to) and claim self defense after he feels he's lost. And to claim self defense doesn't suffice since that would mean the opposing party put the defender in imminent danger; not to mention, danger that Zimmerman placed himself in.

 

[fiat_money]

It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

They can't confirm that the voice was Treyvon's either, so their conclusion holds less weight than the eyewitness who says he saw Zimmerman screaming to him for help.

are you talking about "john"....the witness who came forward weeks after the murder. who wouldn't reveal his identity to the press?

maybe both men were at one point in time crying for help..... not to far fetched....but i dunno....

all we know now at least according to the words of 2 leading experts in the field of voice forensics is that the person crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot is not zimmerman... so it had to have been trayvon....

this along with the 911 tapes, zimmerman's shaky story, trayvons gf's testimony, the police surveillance video, zimmerman's history of violent behavior is more than enough to have him arrested... they can't bs any longer

If by "John", you're referring to the witness who made statements to police the same night of the shooting; then the answer is "yes".

In any form of scientific test, there is always possibility that the method is flawed; unless they can confirm whether or not the voice matches Treyvon's, their conclusion isn't sound. Think about it, the statement "It was not Zimmerman's voice" would still be true if their testing showed it wasn't Treyvon's either. Of course, you're right; they may have both been yelling at various points.

The 911 tapes only confirm that there was shouting, an altercation, and a shooting; neither of these dispute Zimmerman's claims. The girlfriend's account ends before the altercation.

The video shows abrasions of some form to his head:



Even people who have been violent in the past are allowed to use self-defense.

This is why he has not been arrested yet.

 

[obnoxiouslyfresh]

It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

They can't confirm that the voice was Treyvon's either, so their conclusion holds less weight than the eyewitness who says he saw Zimmerman screaming to him for help.

Oh shut up!

 

[fiat_money]

It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

They can't confirm that the voice was Treyvon's either, so their conclusion holds less weight than the eyewitness who says he saw Zimmerman screaming to him for help.

Oh shut up!

Person 1: I don't think that this fruit is an apple.

Person 2: It must be an orange!

 

[Copper]

lol @ running up on someone with a gun and having to kill them in self defense

 

[fiat_money]

lol @ running up on someone with a gun and having to kill them in self defense

Word, Zimmerman is a bitch-ass nigga no doubt.