The Official 2pac Versus Biggie Thread...

[musicology1985]

Suge was simply voicing his opinion. Pac nor Suge were the first to get violent, they just spit the most of it on wax while Puff's side was making strategic and long term moves in real life.

 

[thesynthesis]

Wow, Pac was right, he did call it. The Media is largely to blame for it getting out of control. But Pac has to take some responsibility for "Hit Em Up". Biggie never made an all out diss record. Puffy did say some ish on mixtapes near the end but there was no official diss records from the Bad Boy Camp. That record was possbily the biggest mistake of the beef cause of the chain reaction involved. I also blame VIBE magazine, they really instagated the beef:

i think the Big Pac situation could have been solved if BIG had visited Pac in jail and explained the situation

there would have been no hit'em up

 

[Surveyor]

The way I see it Tupac wanted to get revenge on BadBoy Records.

So, what do you do when you want to get revenge on a former friend? Align yourself with their worst enemy.

Also, let's not forget DR. DRE did not want Tupac on DeathRow. Dre said himself (even Snoop Dogg said it too) that he knew Tupac would bring more negative energy.

 

[DatNiggaB1]

*sigh* man all these comments are pathetic.. Do ya'll not no any fucking thing?

Just to give a lil history..

TRUTH IS... the blame cannot be put onto any ONE person. Multiple people, even thousands, hundreds of thousands of people are to blame.( Maybe some of you are 12.) None of ya'll remember the 94' Source Awards in NY?? The infamous statement that came from Suge?? "if you dont want a producer...all in the videos...singing and dancing COME TO DEATH ROW!!" Ya'll dont remember, Snoop getting on stage getting boo'd and him saying, " ya'll dont love us?....Ya'll don't love us?!!? Ya'll dont' love Snoop Dogg and DeathRow!?!? make some muthfucking noise then!!!" This went down while Pac was in jail. Ya''l dont remember Craig Mack straight grittin on all of Death Row when he was doing his set!?!? This is after the shift of power of rap music from the East to the West. The West was definitely on the rise and taking over the airways and East Coast heads simply was not giving them love directly or indirectly. Very little west coast music was being played on the East coast and that had a part to play as well.

The REAL origins of the beef started when PAC blamed Biggie and Lil Cease for the shooting KNOWING he knew who really did it at least he found out. His homeboy "stretch" who was with him in that elevator some months later was killed not longer after. That situation behind that was real muddy. Before his death, Stretch painted a picture of how it went down and how it didn't have to go down like that. The guy was taken off of here not to long after that. Suge BOUGHT Pac's freedom basically OWNING HIM LITERALLY and thats all she wrote. Dre dropped, "California Love" which was the 1st song Pac was on straight out of jail if I'm not mistaken. I can go on without no problem of the whole history, but its long ass hell.

Point blank, Pac was the fire. Suge just added the rocket fuel. Suge knew Pac had mad fans and followers more than any other rapper in history (in my opinion back then). The HipHop community ate it up. Once the "White media" got wind of it, they broadcast'd it with every platform they could use. and THE PEOPLE....(US) we ran with it. We as HipHop/Rap music listerners/consumers fed into the bullshit. Black people started hating black people on both sides of the country as if we were in a civil war. The lunacy of it when I think back is astounding.

In essence we all murdered BIG and PAC.

Powerful post.

Pac was the fire. This is basically what Flex is saying.

 

[RaHaLLdaY]

Yes I think Puff instigated it. He masterfully baited Suge into a trap & created the atmosphere that took Pac and the West Coast out of the Rap Game as a competitive force.

When you really analyze the facts, SUGE AND PAC WERE ALWAYS RESPONDING TO ATTACKS INITIATED AGAINST THEM. It was just the manner in which they did it (live and direct) that made it seem like they started it. They were always late and Puff was always on the offensive in a Machiavellian way. He even created a King of New York to be his Manchurian candidate.

Puffy baited Suge?!?! The fuck are you smoking!!! Look what little known fact is Not only was Suge jealous of Puff, Suge blamed Puffy for a friend of his getting killed in ATL at some club or something.

You have your facts all fucked up. Suge and Pac initiated the attacks homeboy. Puffy really didn't want any parts of it because it was counterproductive of what he wanted to do. That shit had Puffy stressed out B.

Wake up.

 

[musicology1985]

Suge knew that he wasn't dealing with the kind of Comp that would show all of their hands. Puff's team handled what they needed to and kept it moving, but Suge and Pac did most of the trash talk while the other side sent subliminals and low key shots.

I still give Suge the blame for mismanaging the situation. Pac was his best asset and the whole region was depending on HIM.

 

[musicology1985]

Puffy baited Suge?!?! The fuck are you smoking!!! Look what little known fact is Not only was Suge jealous of Puff, Suge blamed Puffy for a friend of his getting killed in ATL at some club or something.
You have your facts all fucked up. Suge and Pac initiated the attacks homeboy. Puffy really didn't want any parts of it because it was counterproductive of what he wanted to do. That shit had Puffy stressed out B.

Wake up.

All Suge and Pac did from 94 until Pac's death was TALK, aside from the one cat that they caught on the West after Suge's soldier Jake Robles was killed. You can say that Puff didn't call the hit, but Suge and others said that he did. The same people tied to Puff were involved in Pac's earlier shooting as well.

However, I will give Puff credit for sending Mustapha Farrakhan to Suge in early 1996 to broker peace, but by then it was too late.

 

[thesynthesis]

Puffy baited Suge?!?! The fuck are you smoking!!! Look what little known fact is Not only was Suge jealous of Puff, Suge blamed Puffy for a friend of his getting killed in ATL at some club or something.

You have your facts all fucked up. Suge and Pac initiated the attacks homeboy. Puffy really didn't want any parts of it because it was counterproductive of what he wanted to do. That shit had Puffy stressed out B.

Wake up.

You forgot the links Puffy has with Jimmy Hench and BMF who were involved when he got shot in 95.....

Puffy did not like Pac and BIGs friendship. Firstly Pac declined to sign with Bad Boy, secondly he refused to work for free for Jimmy Hench artists, thus he was shot for not being a follower.

Having someone like Pac around BIG, helping him understand the game was undermining Puff, he did not want Pac around him in 95...Puff was cool with Pac when BIG was coming up, but once he felt he had used Pac's name to promote BIG, he put an axe between theyre friendship

Why do you think BIG never visted Pac in jail? why do you think BIG warned Pac about Hench, Pac asked him what do you mean he said "i will tell you later" and 2 days later pac got shot. Then BIG did not want to talk no more.

 

[musicology1985]

Puffy was always one step ahead of Suge after 1993. He peeped how Death Row did it and made the moves needed in order to garner more shares for the East and paved the lane for the East's return to dominance in 1997. Many if not most of the Hip Hop community on the East disagreed with the way he went about doing it after 1996, but he still got the job done.

And Pac had many supporters in the East, but he was never able to fully utilize them.

 

[gee757]

Puffy was always one step ahead of Suge after 1993. He peeped how Death Row did it and made the moves needed in order to garner more shares for the East and paved the lane for the East's return to dominance in 1997. Many if not most of the Hip Hop community on the East disagreed with the way he went about doing it after 1996, but he still got the job done.

And Pac had many supporters in the East, but he was never able to fully utilize them.

if that was tru how did pac sell 5 mill n 2monthz just sellin albumz on da WESTCOAST???

 

[_Menace_]

That Nigga Snoop even blames Pac for the beef

SMH...........

IMO it was the east coast niggas who were talking shit about Pac

 

[MR.CJ]

answer this question.

why didn't big visit pac when he was locked up?

 

[DatNiggaB1]

I should of made a poll for this shit.

 

[_Menace_]

answer this question.

why didn't big visit pac when he was locked up?

Cause that nigga BIG thought he was gonna take over hip hop and his album only sold 2 mill

 

[RaHaLLdaY]

All Suge and Pac did from 94 until Pac's death was TALK, aside from the one cat that they caught on the West after Suge's soldier Jake Robles was killed. You can say that Puff didn't call the hit, but Suge and others said that he did. The same people tied to Puff were involved in Pac's earlier shooting as well.

However, I will give Puff credit for sending Mustapha Farrakhan to Suge in early 1996 to broker peace, but by then it was too late.

You killiing me right now Son. Thats all they did was talk!?! I guess you forgot about the death threats Puff and BIG were getting on the daily. Let somebody make a record about banging out your wife for the WORLD to hear true or not and tell me how thats just ...."Talk". Thats not just talk. Thats called esculation of a BAD situation already out of control. Suge blaming Puff for his man getting wack was just added wood onto the barn fire. Suge aint give a fuck about that dude. C'mon. That dude just so happened to get used as a pawn to continue the ignorance and to continue the fued which was lining Suges pockets. LET ME REMIND YOU innocent people who were foolish enough to actually take sides PHYSICALLY were mamed and or killed over 2 people they didn't know and never met. You think that seen out of "Notorious" wasn't real when Pac and Suge & Co ran up on them!?!? That happened my dude! Cease talked about that...BIG talked about that. This is all documented. "TALK" ....*Huh* dialogue .....communication......is the beginning interaction of any situation.

 

[DatNiggaB1]

answer this question.

why didn't big visit pac when he was locked up?

Good question

 

[musicology1985]

if that was tru how did pac sell 5 mill n 2monthz just sellin albumz on da WESTCOAST???

I did not mean it in that manner Sir. As we all know, Pac sold everywhere in 1995-1996, including worldwide but he was still unable to use his East Coast contacts against Bad Boy-Henchman-Black Mafia on the ground or in the offices. He was far too important of a chess piece for Suge to pass at the time that he did.

On the contrary, BIG's passing was actually perfect in the grand scheme of things because Puff by 1997 had all of the pieces in place to continue on. (No disrespect to BIG) So losing BIG in essence didn't hurt him from a strategic point of view. Lil Kim was dropping heat, Lox were ready, Mase was next up and many other spitters like Black Rob were waiting in the wings and the East Coast scene was droppin' bombs almost every other month with their only comp being the non threatening No Limit and Cash Money.

 

[thesynthesis]

You killiing me right now Son. Thats all they did was talk!?! I guess you forgot about the death threats Puff and BIG were getting on the daily. Let somebody make a record about banging out your wife for the WORLD to hear true or not and tell me how thats just ...."Talk". Thats not just talk. Thats called esculation of a BAD situation already out of control. Suge blaming Puff for his man getting wack was just added wood onto the barn fire. Suge aint give a fuck about that dude. C'mon. That dude just so happened to get used as a pawn to continue the ignorance and to continue the fued which was lining Suges pockets. LET ME REMIND YOU innocent people who were foolish enough to actually take sides PHYSICALLY were mamed and or killed over 2 people they didn't know and never met. You think that seen out of "Notorious" wasn't real when Pac and Suge & Co ran up on them!?!? That happened my dude! Cease talked about that...BIG talked about that. This is all documented. "TALK" ....*Huh* dialogue .....communication......is the beginning interaction of any situation.

so Puff never used BIG as a pawn?

if you think Puff is some innocent dude then you been watching to many VH1 documentaries

Bad Boy was funded by BMF. That Nigga Puff hands are dirty as Suges. If you don't think Puff had nothing to do with Pac gettin shot in 95, then you are a moron.

Puff was not scared of Suge Knight, he played the victim role perfectly and even forced BIGGY not to reply back to Hit'em Up....dissing Pac all out would have been possible career suicide for Biggy, given Pac was the biggest rapper on the planet. Instead they got at Pac through subliminal shots, you only have to listen to Long Kiss Goodnight to understand how Puff works.

Puff dissing Pac on them low key mixtapes reveal the REAL PUFF DADDY, he was as ruthless as Suge.

 

[MR.CJ]

so Puff never used BIG as a pawn?

if you think Puff is some innocent dude then you been watching to many VH1 documentaries

Bad Boy was funded by BMF. That Nigga Puff hands are dirty as Suges. If you don't think Puff had nothing to do with Pac gettin shot in 95, then you are a moron.

Puff was not scared of Suge Knight, he played the victim role perfectly and even forced BIGGY not to reply back to Hit'em Up....dissing Pac all out would have been possible career suicide for Biggy, given Pac was the biggest rapper on the planet. Instead they got at Pac through subliminal shots, you only have to listen to Long Kiss Goodnight to understand how Puff works.

Puff dissing Pac on them low key mixtapes reveal the REAL PUFF DADDY, he was as ruthless as Suge.

word. Puff was just as dirty as Suge. Puff played it smart though.

 

[musicology1985]

You killiing me right now Son. Thats all they did was talk!?! I guess you forgot about the death threats Puff and BIG were getting on the daily. Let somebody make a record about banging out your wife for the WORLD to hear true or not and tell me how thats just ...."Talk". Thats not just talk. Thats called esculation of a BAD situation already out of control. Suge blaming Puff for his man getting wack was just added wood onto the barn fire. Suge aint give a fuck about that dude. C'mon. That dude just so happened to get used as a pawn to continue the ignorance and to continue the fued which was lining Suges pockets. LET ME REMIND YOU innocent people who were foolish enough to actually take sides PHYSICALLY were mamed and or killed over 2 people they didn't know and never met. You think that seen out of "Notorious" wasn't real when Pac and Suge & Co ran up on them!?!? That happened my dude! Cease talked about that...BIG talked about that. This is all documented. "TALK" ....*Huh* dialogue .....communication......is the beginning interaction of any situation.

I did not see the BIG movie Sir, but did anybody get hurt in that altercation?

And I repeat, those close to Puff got physically violent first. Suge was talkin' smack on stage & in interviews and Pac was talkin' smack all over the place in 1996, but that was already after the fact. They were on the defensive and did not devise an offensive plan (Death Row East) until right before Pac's death.