Rapper/MC/Lyricist (For people who say 2 pac a lyricist)

[Ear2DaSt]

lyricism is an art there is no rules to the art it just has to sound good

depth is based upon individual perception and is an opinion

lyricism paints a picture

it doesn't have to have multiple rhyme schemes

but if it does it doesn't take away either

I'll say it again lyricism paints a picture

 

[Listencloser]

http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/39291/what-is-it-that-made-pac-a-lyricist
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/962/stop-that-pac-wasnt-lyrical-sh-t
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/9528323#Comment_9528323
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/9608992#Comment_9608992
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/4293117#Comment_4293117
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/2316281#Comment_2316281
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/2244119#Comment_2244119

Thread.

See you guys again in 5 years

 

[Soloman_The_Wise]

people are under the false impression that Complexity equal Lyricism which is not the case they are just reinventing the wheel so to speak...

 

[power_wisdom]

So I guess Young Thug, Chief Keith and Lil Yatty are lyricist. By your definition. I guess mcs that go out their way to intelligently use word in different creative ways are fools. A good mc can paint a picture without any complex words. That should be the job of any rapper. That has nothing to with lyricist. I understand why Jay-Z dumbed it down. People are so stupid it doesn't matter. This is why the art has become so garbage in that last 10 years. So I guess if we both go to school and you get C and D and I got straight A's we are both Scholars. No. We both are students but my work is on another level. Or if you go to the gym twice a week and I'm a body builder who goes every day . We both are body builders. No we both are members of the gym, but we both on different levels and have different titles. Lyricism isn't the art form. Hip hop is the art form. Rapping is a sub category of the art. Rap is the verbal manifestation of hip hop. Mcing is one who is a master of rapping. Lyricist one who using enhanced lyrics on a consistent basis to mc. 50cent and Jadakiss both use lyrics. 50 can be lyrical at times. But Jada is on another skill set. Thus Jada is a lyricist and 50 is a Mc.

 

[Ear2DaSt]

it's not just complexity of words

it's choice of words

that's why sometimes less complex mc can actually be a better lyricist

it's choice of words and how the mcs put's the words together like pieces to a puzzle

until a picture is formed

some make masterpieces some make a mess

a painting can come to a point of to many objects added

when you have the right amount of detail it's perfection to much and it looks cluttered

when you cook a recipe you have to add just the right amount of herbs and spices not enuff and it's dull

to much and it's to salty but when you get it just right it's perfection

 

[TayGettem]

Joey Badass >>> pac (kill me if u don't like it)

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Do people on the IC know the between a rapper, a mc, and a lyricist? I hear statements like 2pac was a lyricist. Which in my opinion is not so. From my experience anyone who can make words rhyme in a song is a rapper they tend to rap about themselves and not much more . Example they rap about how dope THEY are, the bitches THEY fuck, the drugs THEY sell. A mc is a rapper that can create songs with original content and can be creative and have the ability to tell a story. They can write in a first ,second or third person perspective. A mc is a rapper, but a rapper is not necessarily a mc. A lyricist is a rapper or mc with superior word play. Punchlines, metaphors, double and triple entendre, bars after bars. The difference between a mc and a lyricist is that a mc can be lyrical at times. But a lyricist is super lyrical 95 % of the times. Example Guru was a nice Mc. He could be lyrical at times. Keith Murray is a lyricist. He is super lyrical 95% of the time. 2 pac was a great Mc. Biggie was too, but he was also a lyricist.

You bout to get Pac kids in there feelings.

 

[power_wisdom]

it's not just complexity of words

it's choice of words

that's why sometimes less complex mc can actually be a better lyricist

it's choice of words and how the mcs put's the words together like pieces to a puzzle

until a picture is formed

some make masterpieces some make a mess

a painting can come to a point of to many objects added

when you have the right amount of detail it's perfection to much and it looks cluttered

when you cook a recipe you have to add just the right amount of herbs and spices not enuff and it's dull

to much and it's to salty but when you get it just right it's perfection

Again I'm not talking about being lyrical. I talking about being a lyricist. Pac could be lyrical at times. But rappers like Canibus are lyricist. They are always lyrical. It's a difference between being physically fit and being a bodybuilder. If less complex mc can be better lyricist as you say. And every rapper uses word to write lyrics. Then by your logic every rapper is a lyricist. Because I might find something deep in lil Jon rhymes that you don't because music is subjective. Sorry Bru that doesn't make sense. That's like saying every one who can cook should be able to bake a cake. So if you can bake a cake, you're pastry chef.

 

[Ear2DaSt]

alot of 80's early early 90's shit from New York wasn't always mad lyrical

but kats always diss west coast related artist as being non lyrical if pac was from NYC u would of not made this thread

I know this is a pac thread but I was just debating was a lyricist is

 

[power_wisdom]

alot of 80's early early 90's shit from New York wasn't always mad lyrical

but kats always diss west coast related artist as being non lyrical if pac was from NYC u would of not made this thread

I know this is a pac thread but I was just debating was a lyricist is

You sound like a youngster. Let me school you. Pac was from NY. He went out to Oakland as an adult. He grew up on the East Coast. He also moved back to NY in the early 90s. He had family in Jersey. I made this thread because people don't understand the term. I used Pac because people put labels on him that do not apply instead of learning the artist and seeing the true reason why he was so great.

 

[Ear2DaSt]

Yeah but he gets labeled west coast don't play dumb

 

[5 Grand]

You guys have it all wrong.

I spoke to Grandmaster Caz about this. He says that whenever a new MC comes out he tracks him down and battles him. He claims that nobody can beat him and here's why;

Grandmaster Caz is an MC. That means he can go off the top and keep freestyling all night. So if they start battling at 9pm, he's still there at 6:00 in the morning still rhyming.

He said that what generally happens is that the new rapper (that has a hot new album) starts the battle off by saying written rhymes. But after 10 or 15 minutes the rapper runs out of rhymes and the battles over. Caz said it happens every time. He said Jay-Z gave him a run for his money. To quote Caz, "They said it was a tie".

 

[Ear2DaSt]

You guys have it all wrong.

I spoke to Grandmaster Caz about this. He says that whenever a new MC comes out he tracks him down and battles him. He claims that nobody can beat him and here's why;

Grandmaster Caz is an MC. That means he can go off the top and keep freestyling all night. So if they start battling at 9pm, he's still there at 6:00 in the morning still rhyming.

He said that what generally happens is that the new rapper (that has a hot new album) starts the battle off by saying written rhymes. But after 10 or 15 minutes the rapper runs out of rhymes and the battles over. Caz said it happens every time. He said Jay-Z gave him a run for his money. To quote Caz, "They said it was a tie".

oh wow

 

[bck145]

You guys have it all wrong.

I spoke to Grandmaster Caz about this. He says that whenever a new MC comes out he tracks him down and battles him. He claims that nobody can beat him and here's why;

Grandmaster Caz is an MC. That means he can go off the top and keep freestyling all night. So if they start battling at 9pm, he's still there at 6:00 in the morning still rhyming.

He said that what generally happens is that the new rapper (that has a hot new album) starts the battle off by saying written rhymes. But after 10 or 15 minutes the rapper runs out of rhymes and the battles over. Caz said it happens every time. He said Jay-Z gave him a run for his money. To quote Caz, "They said it was a tie".

Caz is a clown though...while freestyling off the top is a lost art form....quality > quantity

Dr seaus can rhyme...at the end of the day I want good music and substance....someone spitting from the top is cool but I don't want to be listening to that for hours

 

[power_wisdom]

Yeah but he gets labeled west coast don't play dumb

You told me why I made this thread, which was an assumption. I told you where he is from. Fact. Stop assuming shit.

 

[Ear2DaSt]

Who do you consider a better lyricist then 2pac?

 

[5 Grand]

You guys have it all wrong.

I spoke to Grandmaster Caz about this. He says that whenever a new MC comes out he tracks him down and battles him. He claims that nobody can beat him and here's why;

Grandmaster Caz is an MC. That means he can go off the top and keep freestyling all night. So if they start battling at 9pm, he's still there at 6:00 in the morning still rhyming.

He said that what generally happens is that the new rapper (that has a hot new album) starts the battle off by saying written rhymes. But after 10 or 15 minutes the rapper runs out of rhymes and the battles over. Caz said it happens every time. He said Jay-Z gave him a run for his money. To quote Caz, "They said it was a tie".

Caz is a clown though...while freestyling off the top is a lost art form....quality > quantity

Dr seaus can rhyme...at the end of the day I want good music and substance....someone spitting from the top is cool but I don't want to be listening to that for hours

First of all, why is Caz a "clown"?

Second of all, we're not talking about good music and substance, we're talking about the difference between a rapper, an MC and a lyricist. Thats the thread title.

I'm telling you that an MC can rhyme off the top of the head. A rapper can't. A rapper has to write his verses, memorize them and practice them over the beat. He might show up to the battle with 10 or 15 written verses memorized but sooner or later the rapper is going to run out of written rhymes. Thats the difference between an MC and a rapper and if you disagree then you are wrong. This isn't my opinion, this is fact and can be proven by asking the creators of Hip Hop or any well established Hip Hop mogul (Grandmaster Caz, Fab 5 Freddy, KRS One, Russell Simmons, Jay Z, Nas, Master P, etc.). Rappers can't freestyle off the top. If the record skips or he draws a blank the rapper doesn't know what to do.

Now the difference between a lyricist and a rapper or an MC is slightly different. A lyricist uses literary techniques like metaphors, similes, alliteration, hyperbole, double entendres, etc. The lyricist sounds good on the CD when you play it in your car or your living room and might even make you rewind the song to figure out what he just said, but just because he uses a lot of literary techniques it doesn't mean that he makes catchy songs or hit singles. In fact many lyricists struggle with album sales. Again, this is a fact not an opinion.

MC - Can come up with something off the top of the head

Rapper - Recites written rhymes

Lyricist - Uses literary techniques

 

[its....JOHN B]

You guys have it all wrong.

I spoke to Grandmaster Caz about this. He says that whenever a new MC comes out he tracks him down and battles him. He claims that nobody can beat him and here's why;

Grandmaster Caz is an MC. That means he can go off the top and keep freestyling all night. So if they start battling at 9pm, he's still there at 6:00 in the morning still rhyming.

He said that what generally happens is that the new rapper (that has a hot new album) starts the battle off by saying written rhymes. But after 10 or 15 minutes the rapper runs out of rhymes and the battles over. Caz said it happens every time. He said Jay-Z gave him a run for his money. To quote Caz, "They said it was a tie".

Did he battle any other notable mc's?

 

[5 Grand]

You guys have it all wrong.

I spoke to Grandmaster Caz about this. He says that whenever a new MC comes out he tracks him down and battles him. He claims that nobody can beat him and here's why;

Grandmaster Caz is an MC. That means he can go off the top and keep freestyling all night. So if they start battling at 9pm, he's still there at 6:00 in the morning still rhyming.

He said that what generally happens is that the new rapper (that has a hot new album) starts the battle off by saying written rhymes. But after 10 or 15 minutes the rapper runs out of rhymes and the battles over. Caz said it happens every time. He said Jay-Z gave him a run for his money. To quote Caz, "They said it was a tie".

Did he battle any other notable mc's?

He said he's battled everybody.

When I was talking to him I asked him about Biggie, Nas, Rakim, everybody I could think of. His answer was basically, "he can't freestyle" to everybody I named.

Grandmaster Caz is a rare breed. He's one of those guys that can freestyle off the top but he really is one of the forefathers of Hip Hop, so its hard to think of an angle to diss him.

I mean we all know somebody who's good at freestyling off the top, but how many of those people really ghostwrote Rapper's Delight and were featured in Wildstyle and have scores of tapes from the early 80s performing at shows in the Bronx and Harlem?

By the way, he said Kool Moe Dee can't freestyle.

 

[power_wisdom]

You guys have it all wrong.

I spoke to Grandmaster Caz about this. He says that whenever a new MC comes out he tracks him down and battles him. He claims that nobody can beat him and here's why;

Grandmaster Caz is an MC. That means he can go off the top and keep freestyling all night. So if they start battling at 9pm, he's still there at 6:00 in the morning still rhyming.

He said that what generally happens is that the new rapper (that has a hot new album) starts the battle off by saying written rhymes. But after 10 or 15 minutes the rapper runs out of rhymes and the battles over. Caz said it happens every time. He said Jay-Z gave him a run for his money. To quote Caz, "They said it was a tie".

Caz is a clown though...while freestyling off the top is a lost art form....quality > quantity

Dr seaus can rhyme...at the end of the day I want good music and substance....someone spitting from the top is cool but I don't want to be listening to that for hours

First of all, why is Caz a "clown"?

Second of all, we're not talking about good music and substance, we're talking about the difference between a rapper, an MC and a lyricist. Thats the thread title.

I'm telling you that an MC can rhyme off the top of the head. A rapper can't. A rapper has to write his verses, memorize them and practice them over the beat. He might show up to the battle with 10 or 15 written verses memorized but sooner or later the rapper is going to run out of written rhymes. Thats the difference between an MC and a rapper and if you disagree then you are wrong. This isn't my opinion, this is fact and can be proven by asking the creators of Hip Hop or any well established Hip Hop mogul (Grandmaster Caz, Fab 5 Freddy, KRS One, Russell Simmons, Jay Z, Nas, Master P, etc.). Rappers can't freestyle off the top. If the record skips or he draws a blank the rapper doesn't know what to do.

Now the difference between a lyricist and a rapper or an MC is slightly different. A lyricist uses literary techniques like metaphors, similes, alliteration, hyperbole, double entendres, etc. The lyricist sounds good on the CD when you play it in your car or your living room and might even make you rewind the song to figure out what he just said, but just because he uses a lot of literary techniques it doesn't mean that he makes catchy songs or hit singles. In fact many lyricists struggle with album sales. Again, this is a fact not an opinion.

MC - Can come up with something off the top of the head

Rapper - Recites written rhymes

Lyricist - Uses literary techniques

Exactly!!

Who do you consider a better lyricist then 2pac?

Canibus, Joe Buddens, Killah Priest, Nas, Jay-Z, Big, Kurupt, Ras Kas, Sean Price, Big L, Big Pun Mos Def, Cassidy. ......to name a few.