Official ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC THREAD

[BEAM]

Okay, so we're getting somehwere. It was in school during the summer. So is this regular summer classes or Vacation Bible School? College, perhaps? And who found it? And why did they share it with you? And why are you so convinced of its authority if you remember nothing important about it?

But more to the point, when you consider the vastness of the universe, the probability of life cropping up on a planet is not actually small. The universe is so large that scientists (and ones I can name, if you like) calculate that there's many worlds with life on them out there.

Check my response, fam.

I'm note denoting the possibility of life, just how scientists say it happened.

Here's the link again just in case ::

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=590

Read the part about amino acids towards the bottom.

 

[BOSS KTULU]

So a writer for a church's website (who has no math or biology credentials) convinced you with an article that has no sources for its numbers.

 

[jay83]

why don't religious people ever talk about the Book of Nephilim

You mean the book of Enoch?

 

[BEAM]

So a writer for a church's website (who has no math or biology credentials) convinced you with an article that has no sources for its numbers.

I was just proving that the info was out there and that it was able to be researched on one's own.

Tis all.

As far as the credibility ::

Why does it matter that it's a writer from a church's website?
---That's the same as an atheist writing on religious matters.

And here's a site with sited info.

http://www.carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/problem-genetic-improbability

And here's on where the writer has credentials ::

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMN...olution_Convince_OpenMinded_Evolutionists.htm

 

[BOSS KTULU]

credibility is important, that's why credentials matter

and you're still linking to Christian websites, which means your arguments are coming from Christian sources, not scientific ones, so the bias is evident

your first link is debunked here: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/feedback/jul05.html

your second is not an argument for anything, it is just correspondence between two religious people

 

[fiat_money]

...

Weak question?

I was questioning exactly what it is that they don't believe in.

I was asking exactly which genre of God they're opposed to. I never took away they're opposition, I just questioned which God they're rejecting. that doesn't suggest that I think they believe in the opposite option...

It's like asking a vegetarian which meat/ which concept converted them.

There are options.

I was asking for specifics.

You're trying to catch me on something that's not there.
If I was wrong, I'd admit it.
Stop yourself.

Bad analogy, since you were asking "which genre of God they're opposed to", not "which genre of God" converted them. The proper analogy would be "It's like asking a vegetarian which meat they're opposed to.", since as vegetarians don't eat any meat, atheists don't believe in any gods. As an atheist, what they don't believe in are deities, this includes all concepts that suggest or state that any form of deity or god exists.

 

[BOSS KTULU]

vegetarians will eat meat products, though

vegans wont

therefore, Lord Cthulhu is our savior.

 

[BEAM]

credibility is important, that's why credentials matter

and you're still linking to Christian websites, which means your arguments are coming from Christian sources, not scientific ones, so the bias is evident

your first link is debunked here: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/feedback/jul05.html

your second is not an argument for anything, it is just correspondence between two religious people

The fact that they're on Christian websites mean nothing.

If that was the case, arguments against a supreme being existing on any sites that are in any way related to science are null and void, moot and irrelevant.

But I bet you won't claim that.

Like I said, stop arguing with me.

You're not proving anything here.

Even if the presentation was false, you're still not proving anything beyond that.

You'd just be doing what the article you posed against me is supposed to have done.

Which is "disprove" a specific disagreement, and not prove why what you think even happened in the first place.

But it doesn't even disprove it! It just proposes other possibilities for what "might" have happened.

But just for your sake, I'll go ahead and say that the presentation i saw was wrong.

Beyond that, what exactly are you right about again?

Now we're where we started.

I believe in God.

You don't.

 

[BOSS KTULU]

The fact that they're on Christian websites mean nothing.

Now you don't even believe that. These sites have a specific agenda to promote: The Gospel.

If that was the case, arguments against a supreme being existing on any sites that are in any way related to science are null and void, moot and irrelevant.

But I bet you won't claim that.

Science is a little different than religion, scrub. Science is about logic and evidence. An argument on a science website is going to be held to a higher standard of logic and evidence than on any other type of site.

Like I said, stop arguing with me.
You're not proving anything here.

Relax.

But just for your sake, I'll go ahead and say that the presentation i saw was wrong.

Well you shouldn't do that if you don't think it's true, but whatever you like.

I believe in God.

Why?

You don't.

Right, because the lack of evidence and the logical holes in the arguments for it lead me to think that there's never been a god.

 

[BEAM]

Bad analogy, since you were asking "which genre of God they're opposed to", not "which genre of God" converted them. The proper analogy would be "It's like asking a vegetarian which meat they're opposed to.", since as vegetarians don't eat any meat, atheists don't believe in any gods. As an atheist, what they don't believe in are deities, this includes all concepts that suggest or state that any form of deity or god exists.

*sigh*

I knew you would try to make that distinction.

It doesn't matter if they're entirely opposed to something.

There's a reason why they are opposed.

That reason is tied in with aspects that associate with specific understandings of "God".

I was asking for those aspects via which genre or understanding of "God" they're opposed to.

 

[BOSS KTULU]

vegetarians often eat fish, too

 

[BEAM]

Now you don't even believe that. These sites have a specific agenda to promote: The Gospel.

Science is a little different than religion, scrub. Science is about logic and evidence. An argument on a science website is going to be held to a higher standard of logic and evidence than on any other type of site.

Relax.

Well you shouldn't do that if you don't think it's true, but whatever you like.

Why?

Right, because the lack of evidence and the logical holes in the arguments for it lead me to think that there's never been a god.

Sure. But who says that religious individuals don't have scientific reasoning for their disbelief in evolution?

Scientific reasoning denoting Evolution as we know it =/= Scientific reasoning supporting God.
That's what I've been trying to say.
A disbelief in the current theory of Evolution =/= Belief in God.
The fact that I believe in God is a convenient co-incidence for your argument approach.

And again, you're arguing the existence of God as religions depict him.
I've already said that I don't necessarily support that.

I believe in a God not only beyond the understanding of Religion, but of Man in general.
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.

Acknowledgment =/= Understanding.

Your pure logic doesn't denote that. I'm sorry.

 

[fiat_money]

*sigh*

I knew you would try to make that distinction.

It doesn't matter if they're entirely opposed to something.

There's a reason why they are opposed.

That reason is tied in with aspects that associate with specific understandings of "God".

I was asking for those aspects via which genre or understanding of "God" they're opposed to.

No, you typed "Is it a disbelief in God, or a disbelief in God as religions depict?", and for an atheist, the answer is definitely the former.

Perhaps you worded your opening post incorrectly?

 

[BEAM]

No, you typed "Is it a disbelief in God, or a disbelief in God as religions depict?", and for an atheist, the answer is definitely the former.

You're missing the point again.

I'm not going to keep explaining this to you.

It was a casual question.

God is synonymous with all that the term encompasses/ suggests.

It's more specific than you're realizing.

I didn't word anything wrong. You're just playing with semantics.

Like I said, others got it. You didn't.

That is your loss, not something I caused.

 

[fiat_money]

You're missing the point again.

I'm not going to keep explaining this to you.

It was a casual question.
God is synonymous with all that the term encompasses/ suggests.

It's more specific than you're realizing.

I didn't word anything wrong. You're just playing with semantics.

Like I said, others got it. You didn't.

That is your loss, not something I caused.

You asked 4 questions in the opening post, the first was a two-part question, the second was a question about numbers you can't provide, the third was an evaluating question, and the fourth was a reiteration of the first.

None of them asked "which genre or understanding of 'God' they're opposed to". Why you claim this question was posed initially, I have no idea.

There's nothing for you to explain, unless you can show otherwise.

 

[Shuffington]

some people have views of god that are so broad and flexible that it is inevitable that they will find god wherever they look. One hears it said that "God is the ultimate" or "God is our better nature" or "God is the universe". Of course, like any other word, the word "God" can be given any meaning we like. If you want to say that "God is energy" than you can find God in a lump of coal.

-Weinberg

..........

 

[BOSS KTULU]

I believe in a God not only beyond the understanding of Religion, but of Man in general.

Okay. Why?

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

The truth...and the bible aint it

The truth? And the Bible isn't it? Wow. Talk about oxymoron.

 

[alissowack]

The problem I have with all of the "explaining God" questions is that it doesn't seem aimed at just coming to a logical conclusion. Both the Atheist and Christian (or other religions) can say they can't see God, but one decides to place their trust in the possibility and one doesn't. Even as nature seemingly looking "designed", we can't point to someone but we could trust, or not trust, in the possibility of a deity being involved.

Religions are suppose to give a transcending answer to what is, but we find it's followers being more exploitative than being trustworthy; seeming more concerned with what can they can take from you than what they can give. Though God may exist, people really have no reason to think that the God they serve can be trusted because God's followers can't be trusted. It's about trust.

 

[demandred]

Deep Point.............On the flipside i didnt Figure as a the type to do that.........Wat brought u back???

I'm not a church boy... nor am I a church attender... I really want to destroy the whole religious mountain and restart it, because its not how God would have it.... in my quest to figure out life... I would have to pick up the instruction book towards having the ultimate success in life... others can reject it.. like how I use to look for all the cheeseholes, but at the end of the day that person has a censorial spirit, and due to their stubborn close-mindedness they do themselves a great disservice... and then they find other people and things to blame on why they can't follow the path they need to follow, and then they get angry and try to find any reason in the world to discredit the Word... how do I know.. because I did it... and its like a ex dope fiend looking at another one walking down the street... but even then how many people actually listen to wisdom.... very few...

People have their eye on man trying to find God... and its not how this system was designed... and you will end up even more lost than before....

God is something that is easy... and hes easy to find... the first step is allowing yourself to be open-minded.. and to receive freely as if you were a child... the second part is to read and to understand the book for YOURself... and I see literally thousands of preachers that read the Word... but they dont understand it for the fullness of what it is... if one realizes that the words are bread and they are food for the spirit.. one would stop trying to look at the Word in their carnality.... even Christ himself knew that he could not explain spirituality to fleshly(carnal,earthly, people that lack knowledge/understanding of the spirit realm), then realize... the word is not a liar... there is a METHOD to this whole thing and it is in steps.... not how YOU want to do it...

I have a relationship with God... he was extremely present in my life at one point in my journey... it was obvious to see... some man would call me extremely lucky(his favor)... then the luck(his favor) stopped (or so I thought)... God took a couple steps back so that I would educate myself to be able to see deeper.. so that I would be able to see him in places where some people would consider him not present... God is still teaching me how this whole thing we call life works

One thing people don't realize is that to see God one must gain knowledge and understanding of God... without it you will stray... we keep looking for God in carnal places... but God is a spirit... and I don't study religion or christianity... I use the Bible as a teacher of spirituality... the same thing Christ did... there are so many things that need to be taught.. but hear me out and give me a chance... I'm a guy that has walked this thing from start in unbelief and God consistently shows his self in my life... according to HIS WILL.. and I've found success in it, and Im still building

take this scripture

2Co 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God(subtract God enter THE SPIRIT) to the pulling down of strong holds

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

2Co 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance?

Again nlt translation

2Co 10:2 Well, I am begging you now so that when I come I won't have to be bold with those who think we act from human motives.

2Co 10:3 We are human, but we don't wage war as humans do.

2Co 10:4 We use God's mighty weapons(spiritual), not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments.

2Co 10:5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ(Christ stands for THE METHOD OF SALVATION).

Another

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God

The thing is according to the scripture... there is a fight in the spiritual realm that allows your to form within your Soul(heart,intellect,willpower) strongholds, imaginations, and thought that prevent you from entering into the knowledge(understanding) of God... these are deceptions or things that blind you away from the complete light that is God...

Coming into the knowledge of something is like a Child coming into the knowledge of school, or a teenager coming into the knowledge of sex.. you can talk about it all day... but its only until you follow a certain method(order) can you allow yourself to experience and gain understanding in it... but even as we are using sex as a metaphor ... some people even when they come into the knowledge of it... still arent very good at it... and one needs to practice, study and learn... in order to get the best out of the experience...until then one may consistently experience rejection and even reject the activity themselves, because they are not good at it, and cannot experience success, because they will not invest the time to "2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved"... or they wanna do stuff their way and are close-minded to understanding that the key to this is not about pleasing themselves, but pleasing the other person, and in return they will get more pleasure... but this is a principal you could use in sex... but its a principal thats in the bible if you have enough understanding to make the link Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

This is a spiritual battle.. the difference between me and the next man is I'm not religious... Im spiritual, and the Bible is my approach towards my education, and advancement of my spirituality... other people have other methods... but I cast religious people in the same boat with the rest of the heathens, because they don't get it neither....

I'll cut this short because its going long... but look at this

Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

If you remember nothing else I typed... remember this ... anytime you are gauging a persons thoughts or reflections towards God... and they do not understand anything about spirituality... there opinion is about as valuable as a man getting off the bus in Vegas with 2 dollars..... God's a spirit... its like someone talking about the inner workings of cars, yet they have no clue how cars are put together or the interaction between all of the different parts....

Find yourself a Car Engineer to talk to....