Fazeem_Blackall
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Fazeem Blackall;2889622 said:Most religious people seem more caught up on what is written then the spirit of what it is saying & thus are bound to the letters missing the points. All that Said I notice here & other places in the real world that Athiest fall into what could easily beinterupted as sects/denominations & vast different trains of thought and applications for what athiesm is. I have even reada few books/magazines on the subject & found that some used similar rhetoric to various religious groups. Thus Bringing me to ask the question is Atheism a religion in its own sense???
And Step;2889726 said:I guess it depends on what vein of atheist you observe and what you mean by religion, Fazeem.
I noticed a few classifications of religion that seem to be on here. Some say it is a code of conduct derived from a belief system. Others say it just belief.
I have met some atheist who are more religious in terms of their routine conduct than most religious people I know. And then I have met some who are slavishly devoted to leading atheist thinkers more than a preachers flock. They suspend all critical thinking and research because_____said so. They just traded one form of sucka for leadership mentality for another.
Fazeem Blackall;2889825 said:This is exactly my point I find & define religion as a uniform set of doctrine/routines dictated by someone who others hold as being some type of authority on the subject. Most religious people are very absolute & closed minded and I find it ironic that athiest seem to show a similar standard & some of the magzines I have found to be similar in structuring to Watchtower magazines. I am not trying to put an absolute as athiests seem to be as divided in schools of as any other religion. So running with these points you and I both agreed on would you define atheism as relgion unto itself???
soul rattler;2889827 said:Can we get a finite definition/description of religion before we go tossing things in that category?
Religion is not theism, so thread premise is valid.
Atheism, just like theistic Satanism and demonology, is usually in response to the biggest religions throughout history. So even if atheists refuse to call atheism a "religion", they are still tied to it by association.
Fazeem Blackall;2889853 said:relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality seems to sum up the atheist ultimate belief in that there is no supernatural or god. A good example of this & even the breakdown of denomination or schools of thought would be Jainism - A religion founded by Nataputta, who was a royal clan of the Nata tribe in ancient India at the time of Shakyamuni. Its basic doctrine is non-materialistic atheism...
Fazeem Blackall;2889881 said:re·li·gion
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
—Idiom 9. get religion, Informal . a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
So running further on this does Atheism adhere to these more accurrate and encompassing definitions of Religion???
Fazeem Blackall;2889912 said:Do you deny that most athiest believe that without a doubt there is no way that a God or Higher supernatural power exists? I ask because they are devoted to a belief & thus you come to a logical paradox either way you answer that one based on your postion on whaat a religion is...
Fazeem Blackall;2889947 said:Here so we can bypass the spins on my words, by defintion and admission though would you not say that Most Atheists definitively believe that there is no God/Higher Power???
FoolTime;2891180 said:Atheists and religious folk hold the same amount of conviction in their belief and non-belief. Both are 100% sure that there is/isn't a God. An agnostic falls inbetween and is willing to accept either possibility.
Fazeem Blackall;2891343 said:points of argument on what actual atheism is which is a belief that people hold to a level of conviction and faithfull self assurity that there is no god/higher spiritual power...
Fazeem Blackall;2891496 said:Many religions are based soley upon common belief and conviction of that belief, now level of devotion and conviction can sometimes be assessed to measure how relgious they are.
Example a catholic that attends Mass Every week and a catholic that does not go to church, are they both not still catholic because they call themselves so based on similar/same belief sets?
The same application can be applied to atheism as there are publications meetings and social gatherings based on that shared belief for the strongly convicted but those that do not participate in those activites are considered just as much athiest because they share the same set of beliefs...
soul rattler;2889892 said:Yes, yes it does. Atheists just have a superiority complex towards theistic religions because they're a more logical bunch.
And Step;2892144 said:Not all of them. Some just mouth the theories of their leading thinkers just because such and such said so. They suspend critical thinking just like religious people if it validates their world view. If you were to corner some of them and ask them to explain what they mean they would be found wanting. Atheist have develped their own little cottage industry and cult following themselves, where the elite minority disseminate what they want to their adherants who gobble it up.
Fazeem Blackall;2892778 said:It has already been established that some religions which are recognised as such incorprate atheism into the belief system used, so much like in christianity or ISlam or even Judism or Hindu it has smaller offshoots incorporating a base premise, atheism appears to have the same level of denominations as other religions...
Fazeem Blackall;2893197 said:Some obviously do consider it a religion or cult, in some established religions it is a prime prinicple, my point in discussing was to spark conversation and debate on the matter which is why I thought we are all here. And agreement on status does not make or negate something from being what it is so the lack of uniformity on even what atheism is or stands for leave tons of room for interpretation.
The classification and religious status holds even more significance when we are discussing it here in this forum because if it is not a type of religion and defintely not a race then why is it even discussed in this forum???
Fazeem Blackall;2898002 said:But I will run on a tangent and say a better comparison would be like saying that Both Chemists and Alchemists use chemicals and Both Astrologers and Astronomers study the stars , Hell even the church of Satan and The Christian Church both believe in the Devil and God. On that Note Atheism and Theism seem to have equally devout and closed minded disciples and equally as many tangents and diverging criteria upon which they base there beliefs showing that there faith in being correct about all...
And Step;2898525 said:Fazeem makes a good point. If Atheism is not a religion then why discuss it on this forum?
Fazeem Blackall;2898669 said:Like every other religion Atheists have and seek converts...
Fazeem Blackall;2899246 said:There are many sports fanatics that treat the respective sport of their obsession as a religion, I do not disagree about the divisiveness of many religions nor the hypocritcal stances many of them take at times.I pointed out simple traits of Uniformity that Atheists share amongst themselves and how the trains of thought, Identification and belief are parallel to most other religions in their own ways. Ultimate point being that it should be acknowledged as a religion and that those posting in its support here validate that status with every post in the religion section of this and other sites...
Fazeem Blackall;2899460 said:Sounds very much like religion to me a set of beliefs shared by a group of individuals to the point of seeking converts as you kindly pointed out.
I just love the hypocritical irony of Atheists railing against Religion when in fact they themselves are one, It is kind of like the irony christians being nothing like Christ.
I Know very spiritual individuals(A few of whom are Budhists) who are technically Atheist because they do not believe in a supreme deity and I know others who just want to be contrary and like all other religions the many variations do not negate the commonality.
I am just pointing out a sad truth and logical flaw in closed minded thought trains on both the theistic and atheistic sides of the argument.
But I understand how devoted people can be to their religious beliefs so I will not brow beat about the denial of a belief systems status...
Fazeem Blackall;2899624 said:Would the term shared belief be more fitting it does not change much from set of beliefs other then the getting to the fact their is a shared belief and various sects/trains of thought on the application and explanation of that belief...
The abridged argument...
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