Official ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC THREAD

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The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the American Puritan father and son Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on the earth and then the millennium.[12][13] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus' Second Coming. The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture was articulated by Baptist Morgan Edwards in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia.[14]

John Nelson Darby, considered the father of dispensationalism, first proposed the pre-tribulation rapture in 1827.[15]. This view was accepted among many other Plymouth Brethren in England. Darby and other prominent Brethren were part of the Brethren Movement which impacted American Christianity, primarily through their writings. Influences included the Bible Conference Movement, starting in 1878 with the Niagara Bible Conference. These conferences, which were initially inclusive of historicist and futurist premillennialism, led to an increasing acceptance of futurist premillennial views and the pre-tribulation rapture especially among Presbyterian, Baptist and Congregational members [16]. Popular books also contributed to acceptance of the pre-tribulation rapture, including William Eugene Blackstone's book Jesus is Coming published in 1878 and which sold more than 1.3 million copies, and the Scofield Reference Bible, published in 1909 and 1919 and revised in 1967.

The Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox churches, the Anglican Communion, as well as most Protestant Calvinist denominations have no tradition of a preliminary return of Christ and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers and find its biblical foundation weak, and because of their rejection of 19th-century concept of dispensationalism.[17]. Some also reject it because they interpret prophetic scriptures in either an amillennial or postmillennial fashion.


All the centuries Christianity is around and wasn't nobody talkin about no rapture until the 1700s.....WTF?

Also, think about this: What's the POINT of this "Rapture"? To spare the believers from mortal suffering? Where in the Bible are believers spared from mortal suffering? Moses suffered. ALL the prophets suffered. Jesus suffered. The disciples suffered. So the "Rapture" sounds to me like feel good, easy-way-out, Fast Food Christian doctrine. You gon have to sit through the Tribulation like evvvvvvvvverybody else, negro. No "Get out of Armageddon free" cards.
 
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Swiffness!;45379 said:
The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the American Puritan father and son Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on the earth and then the millennium.[12][13] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus' Second Coming. The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture was articulated by Baptist Morgan Edwards in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia.[14]

John Nelson Darby, considered the father of dispensationalism, first proposed the pre-tribulation rapture in 1827.[15]. This view was accepted among many other Plymouth Brethren in England. Darby and other prominent Brethren were part of the Brethren Movement which impacted American Christianity, primarily through their writings. Influences included the Bible Conference Movement, starting in 1878 with the Niagara Bible Conference. These conferences, which were initially inclusive of historicist and futurist premillennialism, led to an increasing acceptance of futurist premillennial views and the pre-tribulation rapture especially among Presbyterian, Baptist and Congregational members [16]. Popular books also contributed to acceptance of the pre-tribulation rapture, including William Eugene Blackstone's book Jesus is Coming published in 1878 and which sold more than 1.3 million copies, and the Scofield Reference Bible, published in 1909 and 1919 and revised in 1967.

The Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox churches, the Anglican Communion, as well as most Protestant Calvinist denominations have no tradition of a preliminary return of Christ and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers and find its biblical foundation weak, and because of their rejection of 19th-century concept of dispensationalism.[17]. Some also reject it because they interpret prophetic scriptures in either an amillennial or postmillennial fashion.


All the centuries Christianity is around and wasn't nobody talkin about no rapture until the 1700s.....WTF?

Also, think about this: What's the POINT of this "Rapture"? To spare the believers from mortal suffering? Where in the Bible are believers spared from mortal suffering? Moses suffered. ALL the prophets suffered. Jesus suffered. The disciples suffered. So the "Rapture" sounds to me like feel good, easy-way-out, Fast Food Christian doctrine. You gon have to sit through the Tribulation like evvvvvvvvverybody else, negro. No "Get out of Armageddon free" cards.

The rapture has been in the forefront of believers minds since the 1st century A.D. 1 Thessalonians was written to comfort those who were eagerly awaiting the return of the Lord.

Also the rapture is spoken of through out the OT and the NT. If you had the Holy Spirit, He would teach you these things, but because you don't it sounds foolish to you; which is expected.
 
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;45221 said:
Humans commit murder, destruction, trickery, and cause painful diseases.

God laid down laws and said if you do this, this will happen.

If you tell your child not to touch the stove because you will get burned, will it be your fault when your child touches the stove and burns their hand? Of course not.

yes, it would, you are the parent and should bear the responsibility of looking after your child. Also try telling that to Child Protection Services and see how well that would work out.
 
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Threadstarter, don't you find it the least bit presumptuous and condesending to assume that you're going to go to Heaven while other people go to Hell and/or suffer?
 
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Hyde Parke;46486 said:
yes, it would, you are the parent and should bear the responsibility of looking after your child. Also try telling that to Child Protection Services and see how well that would work out.

Wow, so I guess your mom still changes your diaper too?
 
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SoulRattler of Venom;46562 said:
Threadstarter, don't you find it the least bit presumptuous and condesending to assume that you're going to go to Heaven while other people go to Hell and/or suffer?

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18

Well when you know Jesus Christ, you would know that your salvation is secure. If you don't know Him, well.....................................
 
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;45413 said:
The rapture has been in the forefront of believers minds since the 1st century A.D. 1 Thessalonians was written to comfort those who were eagerly awaiting the return of the Lord.

Also the rapture is spoken of through out the OT and the NT. If you had the Holy Spirit, He would teach you these things, but because you don't it sounds foolish to you; which is expected.

Stop wit dat. I believe what 1.4 billion Christians believe on this subject. Catholic + Orthodox + Anglican = 1.4 Billion. U mad?
 
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Swiffness!;47886 said:
Stop wit dat. I believe what 1.4 billion Christians believe on this subject. Catholic + Orthodox + Anglican = 1.4 Billion. U mad?

All believers believe in the rapture. They just differ on pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib. Nice try.
 
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***yawn***

believe what you want...these 'discussions' are pretty pointless...

i dont believe this nonsense and quoting me scripture as proof of the existance of God is very weak evidence indeed
 
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blakfyahking;26018 said:
Edit: Atheists

How many of ya'll believe love really exists but find it hard to believe GOD or any other higher spiritual being could exist?

Throwing the outlandish stories in the Bible out of context, who's to say GOD couldn't be real if you have the ability to feel real love? How is it possible to not feel the same way about faith?

i dont follow your logic here...

feel what about faith?
 
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;47892 said:
All believers believe in the rapture. They just differ on pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib. Nice try.

Actually those 1.4 billion believers disagree with your dogma quite a bit on this specific subject. American Protestant Evangelicals always, always, talk about it as a Pre-Trib event. Other denominations don't even use the word "Rapture".

These differing beliefs about the exact chronology of prophesied future events, of course, show how wicked, lost and godless those other denominations are. Right? How dare they believe in a Post-Trib Rapture! Heathens!

Man, why are you born-agains always so touchy on this? Everytime I start this debate with one of you, ya'll freak out and resort to calling me unchristian and all this. Its like ya'll hate modern society so much, you can't wait to see The Beast destroy it...but you're scared of having to live through all that carnage and persecution. So you cling to this doctrine that says that God will spare you the kind of suffering that all the prophets and His Son underwent. All gain, no pain.

Guess I can't blame you there. Nobody wants to suffer. Jesus sure didn't want to in Gethsemane. But things are the way they are. Most Christian Saints get MURKED in pretty ugly ways.
 
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;45221 said:
Humans commit murder, destruction, trickery, and cause painful diseases.

God laid down laws and said if you do this, this will happen.

If you tell your child not to touch the stove because you will get burned, will it be your fault when your child touches the stove and burns their hand? Of course not.

Riiiiight. That evil new born baby really deserved to be born with all those painful deformities. Some loving god you have.
 
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Swiffness!;47979 said:
Actually those 1.4 billion believers disagree with your dogma quite a bit on this specific subject. American Protestant Evangelicals always, always, talk about it as a Pre-Trib event. Other denominations don't even use the word "Rapture".

These differing beliefs about the exact chronology of prophesied future events, of course, show how wicked, lost and godless those other denominations are. Right? How dare they believe in a Post-Trib Rapture! Heathens!

Man, why are you born-agains always so touchy on this? Everytime I start this debate with one of you, ya'll freak out and resort to calling me unchristian and all this. Its like ya'll hate modern society so much, you can't wait to see The Beast destroy it...but you're scared of having to live through all that carnage and persecution. So you cling to this doctrine that says that God will spare you the kind of suffering that all the prophets and His Son underwent. All gain, no pain.

Guess I can't blame you there. Nobody wants to suffer. Jesus sure didn't want to in Gethsemane. But things are the way they are. Most Christian Saints get MURKED in pretty ugly ways.

When did I resort to calling you unchristian? Nice cop it.

But anyways, the rapture (pre-trib) is clearly seen through-out the scriptures. Now if you would truly like to attempt to understand it, please ask and I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide us both into all truth.
 
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Eternal Bachelor;47893 said:
***yawn***

believe what you want...these 'discussions' are pretty pointless...

i dont believe this nonsense
and quoting me scripture as proof of the existance of God is very weak evidence indeed

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

You said it from your own mouth and God as He always does confirms it. God is so great.
 
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oliverlang;48442 said:
Riiiiight. That evil new born baby really deserved to be born with all those painful deformities. Some loving god you have.

This is what happens when you disobey God. Sin is the root cause of all the problems in the world. Now if you would listen to God and turn your heart to Him, you would begin to understand these things Mr. Oliver Lang.
 
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DoUwant2go2Heaven?;48660 said:
This is what happens when you disobey God. Sin is the root cause of all the problems in the world. Now if you would listen to God and turn your heart to Him, you would begin to understand these things Mr. Oliver Lang.

I understand it completely...i just don't believe it. That baby did not even have the oppurtunity, or as you would say freedom of choice, to commit a sin. Original sin is irrational and would only be the product of a hateful and sadistic god....definitely not a loving, forgiving, and caring god.
 
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Carlos Bruise-Her;26436 said:
If you have a discussion about God, the bottom line is the Bible is what you go by. It is his word. It his the manual for instruction that he gave us. How you personally feel about it is irrelevant to the fact of what it is.

Proof? The Koran says the same thing.....as does the Torah? Or do you just enjoy making up shit as it comes along?
 
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blakfyahking;29977 said:
what specifically is flawed logic?

cause I see this thread has skewed into multiple tangents away from the original question LOL

That Love=God. If thats what your implying
 
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LOL PEACE THATS

COMPLETELY FICTICIONAL THE EARTH WILL NEVER BE DESTROYED THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE RAPTURE

ecclesiastes 1:4

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

WHEN CHRISTS RETURNS THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL WILL RETURN TO POWER THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS IS WRITTEN IN ALLEGHORY ITS NOT LITERAL

AMERICA WILL HOWEVER BE DESTROYED IN THERMO NUCULAR WAR AND THE ELECT IN THE WEST WILL BE DELIVERED

heres the true break down on revelations ch 9

 
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