Is it fair to say that the gods or our higher power is lazy? Or just incapable?

[kingblaze84]

For god to stop all the evil in the world he would have to strip us of free will and that would be counter productive to what he wanted. I believe god wants freewill creatures that will freely choose to do good and to freely choose him Now if god came down and prevented man from doing evil when evil is want we want to do then that would be counter productive to his desires.

That once again proves that the universe allows evil to flourish, when the Tasmanians, who mostly kept to themselves, were attacked by the British colonialists and lost, it proved that the number one rule in the universe is might makes right. Evil has had a very long winning streak for a long time now, there is no real justice in history.

The British fucked over the Aboriginals in Australia too, and how does the universe reward the Aboriginals? By living in horrible conditions compared to the British who took over their most prized land and resources LOL.....if your god is real, then it's kind of funny how it lets the bad guys win almost ALL the time.

 

[kingblaze84]

The argument that nature is evil or bad makes no sense because a hurricane has no will of it's own and parasites are devoid of intelligence. Good and evil is a matter of will and judgement on human actions.

Nature is indifferent like the bible says it rains on both the righteous and wicked.

I agree nature is indifferent most of the time, though it shows some favor to some (some are naturally stronger then others).

I didn't say nature is evil though, I said if the Bible god is real, then that kind of god is evil or at least half evil, since Christians claim the Christian god is AWARE of conditions on Earth, yet it still creates hurricanes and BILLIONS of parasites knowing they cause extreme pain and agony out there.

If I created a super virus and threw it over a crowd in Times Square or a major city, knowing that virus would cause extreme pain and death to millions, how would society look at me? Would I be looked at as a good person......?

 

[sunlord]

For god to stop all the evil in the world he would have to strip us of free will and that would be counter productive to what he wanted. I believe god wants freewill creatures that will freely choose to do good and to freely choose him Now if god came down and prevented man from doing evil when evil is want we want to do then that would be counter productive to his desires.

That once again proves that the universe allows evil to flourish, when the Tasmanians, who mostly kept to themselves, were attacked by the British colonialists and lost, it proved that the number one rule in the universe is might makes right. Evil has had a very long winning streak for a long time now, there is no real justice in history.

The British fucked over the Aboriginals in Australia too, and how does the universe reward the Aboriginals? By living in horrible conditions compared to the British who took over their most prized land and resources LOL.....if your god is real, then it's kind of funny how it lets the bad guys win almost ALL the time.

You see it that way because you are very carnal minded but when innocents die their killers don't get anything of value to god. In addition you don't know what happened in the hearts and minds of those killers after they committed those atrocities, you don't know how miserable their personal lives could have been. God knows what happens in the dark heart of man and how he sometimes brings about the hidden punishment of the wicked.

 

[kingblaze84]

For god to stop all the evil in the world he would have to strip us of free will and that would be counter productive to what he wanted. I believe god wants freewill creatures that will freely choose to do good and to freely choose him Now if god came down and prevented man from doing evil when evil is want we want to do then that would be counter productive to his desires.

That once again proves that the universe allows evil to flourish, when the Tasmanians, who mostly kept to themselves, were attacked by the British colonialists and lost, it proved that the number one rule in the universe is might makes right. Evil has had a very long winning streak for a long time now, there is no real justice in history.

The British fucked over the Aboriginals in Australia too, and how does the universe reward the Aboriginals? By living in horrible conditions compared to the British who took over their most prized land and resources LOL.....if your god is real, then it's kind of funny how it lets the bad guys win almost ALL the time.

You see it that way because you are very carnal minded but when innocents die their killers don't get anything of value to god. In addition you don't know what happened in the hearts and minds of those killers after they committed those atrocities, you don't know how miserable their personal lives could have been. God knows what happens in the dark heart of man and how he sometimes brings about the hidden punishment of the wicked.

You called me carnal minded twice now, what's that supposed to mean? I think only on Earthly terms? Well here's a newsflash, ALL of us think carnal minded. Being religious doesn't mean you stop being a person who eats, sleeps and does everything else people do.

Anyway, you're making a lot of assumptions about your god, what hidden punishments of the wicked? Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand got rich after the Native Americans got slaughtered and robbed, King Leopold killed about 9 million people from the Congo and he lived a long, wealthy, and healthy life till age 71, well ahead of his time age wise. There are several serial killers who never got caught and many of them feel pleasure killing, they don't really suffer from nightmares or whatever from what they've done.

You probably should do some reading on sociopaths and psychopaths, they often get pleasure after killing their victims, Columbus was likely a sociopath and so were many of the conquistadors. Columbus had no problem sex trafficking 9 and 10 year old Native American girls. Many of the conquistador followers lived long lives with lots of riches, slaves, and women. Not sure what you are talking about.

 

[sunlord]

For god to stop all the evil in the world he would have to strip us of free will and that would be counter productive to what he wanted. I believe god wants freewill creatures that will freely choose to do good and to freely choose him Now if god came down and prevented man from doing evil when evil is want we want to do then that would be counter productive to his desires.

That once again proves that the universe allows evil to flourish, when the Tasmanians, who mostly kept to themselves, were attacked by the British colonialists and lost, it proved that the number one rule in the universe is might makes right. Evil has had a very long winning streak for a long time now, there is no real justice in history.

The British fucked over the Aboriginals in Australia too, and how does the universe reward the Aboriginals? By living in horrible conditions compared to the British who took over their most prized land and resources LOL.....if your god is real, then it's kind of funny how it lets the bad guys win almost ALL the time.

You see it that way because you are very carnal minded but when innocents die their killers don't get anything of value to god. In addition you don't know what happened in the hearts and minds of those killers after they committed those atrocities, you don't know how miserable their personal lives could have been. God knows what happens in the dark heart of man and how he sometimes brings about the hidden punishment of the wicked.

You called me carnal minded twice now, what's that supposed to mean? I think only on Earthly terms? Well here's a newsflash, ALL of us think carnal minded. Being religious doesn't mean you stop being a person who eats, sleeps and does everything else people do.

Anyway, you're making a lot of assumptions about your god, what hidden punishments of the wicked? Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand got rich after the Native Americans got slaughtered and robbed, King Leopold killed about 9 million people from the Congo and he lived a long, wealthy, and healthy life till age 71, well ahead of his time age wise. There are several serial killers who never got caught and many of them feel pleasure killing, they don't really suffer from nightmares or whatever from what they've done.

You probably should do some reading on sociopaths and psychopaths, they often get pleasure after killing their victims, Columbus was likely a sociopath and so were many of the conquistadors. Columbus had no problem sex trafficking 9 and 10 year old Native American girls. Many of the conquistador followers lived long lives with lots of riches, slaves, and women. Not sure what you are talking about.

PEOPLE who honestly believe in god are capable of thinking in ways that go beyond the physical beastly human desires, that does not mean they don't have those human urges but it does mean they have something you seem to lack. A spiritual perspective makes someone TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM YOU because they are literally experiencing life/reality differently. The spiritual/religious person is only similar to you on a shallow level on the deeper level they are very different.

I am not making assumptions the word of god clearly says they will be punished and not always just after death.... as for evil psychopaths they actually aren't happy with their lives, in fact they don't really feel anything in the way normal people can that in of it self is a curse. IRONICALLY studies suggest that many psychopaths suffer from depression and just about every serial killer has a horrible life/childhood which is why some of them ended up that way in the first place.

there is a big difference between happiness and pleasure you can get pleasure doing meth but there aren't too many happy meth heads.

 

[kingblaze84]

For god to stop all the evil in the world he would have to strip us of free will and that would be counter productive to what he wanted. I believe god wants freewill creatures that will freely choose to do good and to freely choose him Now if god came down and prevented man from doing evil when evil is want we want to do then that would be counter productive to his desires.

That once again proves that the universe allows evil to flourish, when the Tasmanians, who mostly kept to themselves, were attacked by the British colonialists and lost, it proved that the number one rule in the universe is might makes right. Evil has had a very long winning streak for a long time now, there is no real justice in history.

The British fucked over the Aboriginals in Australia too, and how does the universe reward the Aboriginals? By living in horrible conditions compared to the British who took over their most prized land and resources LOL.....if your god is real, then it's kind of funny how it lets the bad guys win almost ALL the time.

You see it that way because you are very carnal minded but when innocents die their killers don't get anything of value to god. In addition you don't know what happened in the hearts and minds of those killers after they committed those atrocities, you don't know how miserable their personal lives could have been. God knows what happens in the dark heart of man and how he sometimes brings about the hidden punishment of the wicked.

You called me carnal minded twice now, what's that supposed to mean? I think only on Earthly terms? Well here's a newsflash, ALL of us think carnal minded. Being religious doesn't mean you stop being a person who eats, sleeps and does everything else people do.

Anyway, you're making a lot of assumptions about your god, what hidden punishments of the wicked? Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand got rich after the Native Americans got slaughtered and robbed, King Leopold killed about 9 million people from the Congo and he lived a long, wealthy, and healthy life till age 71, well ahead of his time age wise. There are several serial killers who never got caught and many of them feel pleasure killing, they don't really suffer from nightmares or whatever from what they've done.

You probably should do some reading on sociopaths and psychopaths, they often get pleasure after killing their victims, Columbus was likely a sociopath and so were many of the conquistadors. Columbus had no problem sex trafficking 9 and 10 year old Native American girls. Many of the conquistador followers lived long lives with lots of riches, slaves, and women. Not sure what you are talking about.

PEOPLE who honestly believe in god are capable of thinking in ways that go beyond the physical beastly human desires, that does not mean they don't have those human urges but it does mean they have something you seem to lack. A spiritual perspective makes someone TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM YOU because they are literally experiencing life/reality differently. The spiritual/religious person is only similar to you on a shallow level on the deeper level they are very different.

I am not making assumptions the word of god clearly says they will be punished and not always just after death.... as for evil psychopaths they actually aren't happy with their lives, in fact they don't really feel anything in the way normal people can that in of it self is a curse. IRONICALLY studies suggest that many psychopaths suffer from depression and just about every serial killer has a horrible life/childhood which is why some of them ended up that way in the first place.

there is a big difference between happiness and pleasure you can get pleasure doing meth but there aren't too many happy meth heads.

I know some religious people, they might pray more but they have and act on their human beastly desires like anyone else, Christopher Columbus was a very religious man and yet had several sex slaves and murder was easy to him. I know an older religious Catholic guy who loves going to Asia to bang out Asian hookers lol. I can go on and on, TRUST ME. I guess you never heard of the pastors out there who sleep with their parishioners?

I'm not fooled by "religious" people who claim to be holier then thou, yes there are some very good religious people who are chaste and everything, but I've known enough religious people to know that on average they think and act just as carnal as EVERYONE else. Go look up the divorce rate in the Bible belt haha.....

Anyway, yes I'm sure some serial killers and psychopaths are miserable and take their anger out on everyone else, but some sociopaths live otherwise happy lives, just as many "normal" and good people can suffer from depression or whatever random mental health issue. You say things at times without facts.

There are many examples in history of evil people who went on to live long and powerful lives, Andrew Jackson beat his slaves silly and went on to become president of the United States and went on to do way worse. I'm sure he led a better life then the Native Americans he put in cold reservations without shoes, as he killed thousands more of them.

 

[kingblaze84]

Religious people tend to have the most kids, having a kid is probably the most carnal thing there is to do, knowing how people treat the environment.

 

[sunlord]

For god to stop all the evil in the world he would have to strip us of free will and that would be counter productive to what he wanted. I believe god wants freewill creatures that will freely choose to do good and to freely choose him Now if god came down and prevented man from doing evil when evil is want we want to do then that would be counter productive to his desires.

That once again proves that the universe allows evil to flourish, when the Tasmanians, who mostly kept to themselves, were attacked by the British colonialists and lost, it proved that the number one rule in the universe is might makes right. Evil has had a very long winning streak for a long time now, there is no real justice in history.

The British fucked over the Aboriginals in Australia too, and how does the universe reward the Aboriginals? By living in horrible conditions compared to the British who took over their most prized land and resources LOL.....if your god is real, then it's kind of funny how it lets the bad guys win almost ALL the time.

You see it that way because you are very carnal minded but when innocents die their killers don't get anything of value to god. In addition you don't know what happened in the hearts and minds of those killers after they committed those atrocities, you don't know how miserable their personal lives could have been. God knows what happens in the dark heart of man and how he sometimes brings about the hidden punishment of the wicked.

You called me carnal minded twice now, what's that supposed to mean? I think only on Earthly terms? Well here's a newsflash, ALL of us think carnal minded. Being religious doesn't mean you stop being a person who eats, sleeps and does everything else people do.

Anyway, you're making a lot of assumptions about your god, what hidden punishments of the wicked? Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand got rich after the Native Americans got slaughtered and robbed, King Leopold killed about 9 million people from the Congo and he lived a long, wealthy, and healthy life till age 71, well ahead of his time age wise. There are several serial killers who never got caught and many of them feel pleasure killing, they don't really suffer from nightmares or whatever from what they've done.

You probably should do some reading on sociopaths and psychopaths, they often get pleasure after killing their victims, Columbus was likely a sociopath and so were many of the conquistadors. Columbus had no problem sex trafficking 9 and 10 year old Native American girls. Many of the conquistador followers lived long lives with lots of riches, slaves, and women. Not sure what you are talking about.

PEOPLE who honestly believe in god are capable of thinking in ways that go beyond the physical beastly human desires, that does not mean they don't have those human urges but it does mean they have something you seem to lack. A spiritual perspective makes someone TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM YOU because they are literally experiencing life/reality differently. The spiritual/religious person is only similar to you on a shallow level on the deeper level they are very different.

I am not making assumptions the word of god clearly says they will be punished and not always just after death.... as for evil psychopaths they actually aren't happy with their lives, in fact they don't really feel anything in the way normal people can that in of it self is a curse. IRONICALLY studies suggest that many psychopaths suffer from depression and just about every serial killer has a horrible life/childhood which is why some of them ended up that way in the first place.

there is a big difference between happiness and pleasure you can get pleasure doing meth but there aren't too many happy meth heads.

I know some religious people, they might pray more but they have and act on their human beastly desires like anyone else, Christopher Columbus was a very religious man and yet had several sex slaves and murder was easy to him. I know an older religious Catholic guy who loves going to Asia to bang out Asian hookers lol. I can go on and on, TRUST ME. I guess you never heard of the pastors out there who sleep with their parishioners?

I'm not fooled by "religious" people who claim to be holier then thou, yes there are some very good religious people who are chaste and everything, but I've known enough religious people to know that on average they think and act just as carnal as EVERYONE else. Go look up the divorce rate in the Bible belt haha.....

Anyway, yes I'm sure some serial killers and psychopaths are miserable and take their anger out on everyone else, but some sociopaths live otherwise happy lives, just as many "normal" and good people can suffer from depression or whatever random mental health issue. You say things at times without facts.

There are many examples in history of evil people who went on to live long and powerful lives, Andrew Jackson beat his slaves silly and went on to become president of the United States and went on to do way worse. I'm sure he led a better life then the Native Americans he put in cold reservations without shoes, as he killed thousands more of them.

You still don't grasp what I have been telling you I never denied religious people sin or that we can think or act carnally; I addressed this In the last post. religious people can think and act carnally but you however CAN ONLY Think CARNALLY...... but the fact remains GOD punishes all sin and the wicked get their punishment the belief that you have that evil people are out here rampantly getting away with all kinds of shit is unfounded because the vast majority of humanity actually does have a conscience and most people who break the law are punished.

because you only have a carnal mind you judge everything by an outside appearances, so you see wealth and you see money and you think "oh this evil person is happy" but that is a foolish carnal assumption because you are judging these people only on their material possessions or power. Many of those people are fucking miserable you think el chapo is happy right now??? he probably hasn't been truly happy in decades.

and as for what you saying about there being happy serial killers that's absolute nonsense to begin with there are distinction between sociopaths, sadistic psychopaths and regular psychopaths. A PAINFUL and dysfunctional childhood THAT CANNOT BE forgotten is usually what turns a sociopath or psychopath into a sadistic psychopath so this means these people are intrinsically not happy. Just because someone doesn't feel empathy that doesn't mean they feel joy either.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Religious people tend to have the most kids, having a kid is probably the most carnal thing there is to do, knowing how people treat the environment.

Poor people have the most kids. Something about poverty makes people horny idk.

 

[kingblaze84]

@sunlord

What do you mean I can only think carnally? As compared to religious people? I guess you didn't pay attention to the examples I gave you, just because someone prays more and reads a 2,000 plus year old book doesn't mean they think or live better then me. I'm not a serial killer (of humans) and haven't done anything THAT bad, so I'd say I'm living a pretty decent life. You give the example of El Chapo being unhappy, but there are plenty of good people out there unhappy too lol so umm what's your point? I bet El Chapo was happier a few years ago then the homeless guy I saw on the train tonight with no shoes begging people for money and cursing people out for not giving him anything.

I agree most people are good deep down, but that doesn't really change anything I've said, and your theory of the Bible god "punishing evil" is hilarious at best, have you read a history book? Nature tends to REWARD evil, how many examples do I have to give you? Oh yeah, he will punish evil "in the afterlife". That's convenient as hell, hopefully that's true, but based on what I see on Earth, I find it funny at best that your Bible god has ANY INTEREST in punishing evil. Genghis Khan slaughtered whole families and cities just because some of his subjects refused to pay taxes or looked at his family wrong, yet his empire had a long reign that lasted many years. Your god seems to have ZERO interest in punishing evil, unless I'm reading my history books wrong.

Not sure how some can even think the Bible god is a god of justice, where was that sense of justice during the centuries long Trans Atlantic slave trade and when King Leopold was chopping off the arms of Africans who didn't want to produce rubber for him? People got away with things like that for many years, and got filthy rich off it. Seems likely your god is sleeping, dead, incapable, or maybe just not real.

 

[kingblaze84]

Religious people tend to have the most kids, having a kid is probably the most carnal thing there is to do, knowing how people treat the environment.

Poor people have the most kids. Something about poverty makes people horny idk.

Seems both religious and poor people have the most kids, though poorer people tend to be more religious for some reason. I'm sure there's a few reasons for that.

 

[Melqart]

If someone thinks my expectations of a god are too high, then why do so many religious people say "god doesn't make mistakes"? Did our "god" purposely make babies have so many birth defects out there? Seems kind of strange to me. I'm not here to diss "god", I'm just here to understand.

While not having read the thread, I'd posit the following rhetorical questions to guide your perspective.

Is it necessarily that you expect too much of God? Or too little? Do you think that a creator on the scale of galactic direction in the perpetual expansion of trillion planet universe, would concern itself with the attributes of a species born on a planet that has absolutely no significance on a solar system, star system, and by extension a galactic level?

Also, what truly is perfection? Do you think that humanity in its current form is the perfect expression of that which can be made?

Our perception of "perfection" so greatly tainted by our lowly perception of ideal state of the world, space, heaven etc that imo it is hardly worth elaborating on outside of the most mundane of tasks that can be graded on a finite scale recognized by most average cognizent humans.

 

[Melqart]

If someone thinks my expectations of a god are too high, then why do so many religious people say "god doesn't make mistakes"? Did our "god" purposely make babies have so many birth defects out there? Seems kind of strange to me. I'm not here to diss "god", I'm just here to understand.

While not having read the thread, I'd posit the following rhetorical questions to guide your perspective.

Is it necessarily that you expect too much of God? Or too little? Do you think that a creator on the scale of guiding the perpetual galactic expansion of multi-trillion planet universe (which is only what we can perceive in one dimension), would concern itself THAT keenly with the attributes of a species born on a planet that has absolutely no significance on a solar system, star system, and by extension a galactic level?

Also, what truly is perfection? Do you think that humanity in its current form is the perfect expression of that which can be made?

Our perception of "perfection" so greatly tainted by our lowly perception of ideal state of the world, space, heaven etc that imo it is hardly worth elaborating on outside of the most mundane of tasks that can be graded on a finite scale recognized by most average cognizent humans.

 

[kingblaze84]

If someone thinks my expectations of a god are too high, then why do so many religious people say "god doesn't make mistakes"? Did our "god" purposely make babies have so many birth defects out there? Seems kind of strange to me. I'm not here to diss "god", I'm just here to understand.

While not having read the thread, I'd posit the following rhetorical questions to guide your perspective.

Is it necessarily that you expect too much of God? Or too little? Do you think that a creator on the scale of galactic direction in the perpetual expansion of trillion planet universe, would concern itself with the attributes of a species born on a planet that has absolutely no significance on a solar system, star system, and by extension a galactic level?

Also, what truly is perfection? Do you think that humanity in its current form is the perfect expression of that which can be made?

Our perception of "perfection" so greatly tainted by our lowly perception of ideal state of the world, space, heaven etc that imo it is hardly worth elaborating on outside of the most mundane of tasks that can be graded on a finite scale recognized by most average cognizent humans.

If "god" or our higher power is so unconcerned with human interests and desires, I can understand I guess, it may be so busy creating new galaxies that it forgot about humans and the other species it/they created.

If that is the kind of god we have, then perhaps it's just your average run of the mill deadbeat dad who is having fun creating more kids/environments while neglecting the children on Earth that TRULY could use its help. Perhaps such a being is not so much a god and more like a spirit force who cares NOTHING about ethics, and cares ONLY about survival of the fittest. I guess in that viewpoint, I'll be fine. If it is a god, then damn that nigga is scary lol.....

As far as what is perfection? How about a world that's not like Earth lol? I mean, germs and diseases are everywhere on Earth, kids and adults die painful deaths everyday, and meanwhile, animals survive by eating other animals ALIVE. Perhaps this cosmic genius you speak of considers THIS perfection? If so, then Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Stephen Paddock were perfectly normal people. After all, cruelty and craven behavior are natural acts and that kind of behavior is RICHLY rewarded in the animal kingdom. The hyena is near the top of the food chain, and it got there by bloodshed in the most painful of ways. A very interesting galaxy we live in.

 

[kingblaze84]

Is it really true we live in a multi-TRILLION planet universe? That many planets????? Where did you get that from @Melqart not saying you're lying but damn that's breathtaking if true.

 

[WYRM]

I think we are just lazy and use God and the devil and or Gods as scapegoats to justify our actions and or in actions. That is all.

 

[kingblaze84]

Many people historically have used the words of their holy books to justify the massive oppression and murder of those who believe differently or are different. But of course, non-religious people are capable of bad behavior too. People will use anything, especially religion, to justify fucked up behavior. People are just a ruthless species, but then again, we live in a ruthless world.

I guess the gods or our higher power likes it this way.

 

[kingblaze84]

I saw a mouse in my kitchen today, and I kind of thought of this thread. What was mother nature's point in making mice? Or mosquitoes? Or this freezing cold in NY?

Like, what was the fucking point in making all these things? My theory on Earth being a giant experiment is kind of being reinforced every day as I make observations of the world. Mice if I'm not mistaken still outnumber humans worldwide? But what's their point in being around and being such pests to people?

Maybe our higher power (or aliens) put people and animals on Earth as some kind of weird science experiment just to laugh at the obstacles people have to go through. I'm leaning towards thinking any "god" out there has a very demented sense of humor, with sadistic tendencies. I highly doubt I'm wrong at this point.

 

[LUClEN]

What if God was one of us?

 

[kingblaze84]

What if God was one of us?

Do you mean "god" was once a human, or some form of human?

I notice you used the word "was", which is interesting.