Is it fair to say that the gods or our higher power is lazy? Or just incapable?

[kingblaze84]

What if God was one of us?

Do you mean "god" was once a human, or some form of human?

I notice you used the word "was", which is interesting.

God goes through transitions. Or at least the public consciousness of it does.

I still find it interesting that the gods were said to be so active back in the day. The Bible god appeared as a burning bush at one point, and some say Jesus was god himself.

And many other gods in ancient days appeared as dragons, humans, blue figures and whoever. A shame the gods don't really want to appear up close and in person nowadays, not sure why they're so shy now. Assuming these were gods and not aliens of some kind.

The average person did not get to see the burning bush and most people on earth did not get to walk with Christ for all we know god could still directly be doing miracles but you have not experienced it.

Maybe but it's also possible that there are a bunch of gods creating miracles, people throughout the world credit all kinds of gods for miracles, some even pray to multiple gods. Some don't pray to any god and still have miracles happen to them, life is weird like that.

I've actually experienced miracles, but for all I know, maybe it was an angel (or magic ghost) that helped me. Who really knows who is doing what out there. It could be just luck too.

FOR THERE TO BE A GOD it would logically have to be some form of singular entity, there cannot be multiple gods all doing things the others don't know about agree with or allow to happen.

to a certain degree GOD BLESSES THE GOOD AND THE BAD and much in life is either random or simply an act of the laws of nature that god has set up. However people who are spiritually developed know the difference.

You're making assumptions about what god is, why can't there be several gods? There's no real evidence one single god made everything, if that's the case, are you willing to admit your god is very evil? One single god made all the horrible diseases and parasites of the world? THINK about what you are admitting to. Are you SURE you want to admit one god made all the horrible disasters of the world?

I guess any god or gods out there could be blessing people at random, but genetics and family structure plus environment play even larger roles in improving lives compared to random miracles from invisible gods. I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritually developed", you mean religious or superstitious people compared to non-religious people? Cuz plenty of non-religious people out there have much more blessed and pleasant lives then religious people I know.

I am talking and GOD with a capital "G" not just a deity that is worshiped. There can only be 1 OMNIPOTENT being if there are 2 then that means none of them are OMNIPOTENT. Having multiple gods would mean that there EXIST at least one entity that can exist outside of the omnipotent power/will of an omnipotent being which would mean that each entity would not be omnipotent and therefore not GOD. If there are two gods it means that they would in essence cancel each other out. because there would be a being that each could not control if they so wished it. Omnipotence is essential to A GOD existing.

God defines what is good and fully understands evil, a disaster should not be defined as being evil there consequences can be described as being BAD but bad should not be termed as evil there are big distinctions that can be made between the two concepts. If you actually follow the metaphysical messages in genesis and what it is trying to teach you would understand that GOD firstly made human existence perfect but We decided to change the nature of the world into what it is today.

By spiritually developed i mean those people who can put their lives and all of humanity in universal context and see/ feel the presence of GOD when he moves in their life and the world. God is helping the non-religious as well they just don't have the benefit of knowing it. SOME people cannot hear certain sounds or see certain colors, they just don't have those senses. Some people lose their sight and have diminished hearing ability and never realize it....... SOME people cannot sense the Spiritual or lose their ability to.

Well there's no evidence of an omnipotent god, what makes you think any god out there is omnipotent? It should seem pretty obvious by observing the world that there's no such thing as an ALL POWERFUL and perfect god, the human body has many design flaws and the world has a ton of design flaws too. This world was designed for suffering, animals have to eat each other alive to survive, not exactly an ethical and fun way to live life if you're a baby animal or a sick one, even a healthy animal is constantly paranoid about its environment in the wild. I think an all powerful god would have made everyone plant eaters, it would be a much more efficient world and would create a lot less unnecessary suffering.

You can blame Adam and Eve all you want, but that still makes no sense because people were born imperfect, so your so called god should have known ahead of time people would fuck up. Funny how an omnipotent god such as yours could create humans who are by nature very flawed. If there is an omnipotent god out there, then I'm not sure where the hell it's hiding, cuz the world is filled with imperfection.

of course there is no objective proof of God if i could prove god EXISTED objectively then it would not be GOD. You can only say something has a Design flaw if you know why it was designed DO you know why the proposed GOD we are talking about designed mankind the way he did??? if not then you are not qualified to say mankind has a design flaw.

GOD judges freewill creatures based on what they do not on what they might do.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know, your god is just hiding somewhere in never never land. I see zero evidence of an omnipotent or perfect god. TRUST ME, I WISH there was a perfect and angelic god out there somewhere, but looking at Earth, I don't think that kind of god exists in our solar system. Maybe in some other far out galaxy out there, but in this solar system?? HAHA hell no.

And humanity has obvious design flaws, are you kidding me? Not everyone is built tough and strong, some people are born allergic to water, how the fuck do you explain that? How do you explain some people being allergic to peanut butter and even some kinds of vegetables? How do you explain some people getting hernias and tumors, if the human body was designed perfectly?

As far as free will, you know that's a myth right? We have LIMITED WILL, free will is IMAGINARY and I can prove it. In fact, scientists are slowly coming to the same conclusion.

 

[sunlord]

I wish Jesus could do something about this cold ass weather, I would turn Christian tomorrow if winter time and this cold weather ends NOW. I'm tired of this shit.

God is not a genie and won't just give you what you want just because you ask for it and besides some people like the cold.

You think it's a coincidence colder nations have the highest atheist and agnostic rates? I know some people like the cold but I bet those same people wear coats and gloves when it gets 30 degrees and lower.

those nations have higher amounts of atheist because they have money and money,pleasure and hedonism pulls people away from god. Those nations got wealthy because of historical and geographical reasons.

IF YOU PRAY for cold and some people pray for warmth who will god listen to???

I think the cold and sad weather in Europe and parts of Asia play a big role in the high rates of atheism there too, cold weather is harsh and not fun to deal with. Many of the places in Europe and Asia with high rates of atheists and agnostics are in nations that are not even rich, Estonia and Finland are not rich nations, neither is Lithuania.

I think suicide rates are higher in colder nations too but I could be wrong. But obviously, Earth doesn't really care about the feelings of human beings or animals. Not exactly the signs of a nice, good "god".

cold weather has nothing to do with it Europe was once very religious now they are not but their climate has not significantly changed in hundreds of years so you cannot blame the weather for their lack of religiosity. In addition middle/eastern Europe and Russia are some of the coldest European nations and they have increasing numbers of religious people. Very hot and humid weather can be harsh as well BUT many hot places are very religious.

BEING RICH is relative but clearly the nations in western and northern Europe with the greatest density of atheist are some of the richest on earth, both Finland and Lithuania rank higher in GDP than most nations of earth. There is however scientific evidence that cold weather and lack of sunshine can causes seasonal depression so that might account for the higher rates of suicide in northern Europe.

If God was not good you would not be breathing but that's not good enough for some, you guys think god should have made human existence into your ideal image. You don't value what god has made the earth produce, all the things that exist just so that humanity can survive and thrive are all overlooked and undervalued. You don't marvel at the fact that you can plant a seed and grow food that can sustain life or use herbs to heal and that millions upon millions of people have survived thanks to the natural systems that god set in place. Instead you complain about the few hundreds that die from parasites AND don't understand that those people are only dying because of the greed and selfishness of other humans

Europe was once under oppressive governments that forced religion on people with several inquisitions, people were persecuted there at one point if they spoke out against religious regimes. But even back then, there was still a rich tradition of atheism in Europe and parts of Asia. Yeah many hot nations are religious (or claim to be), but we all know about the many problems religious societies tend to have worldwide. Suicide rates being higher in colder nations makes sense, the cold isn't exactly a welcoming thing.

I know there are many great things about life but that doesn't mean people can ignore the natural horrors of the world either. It's more then just a few hundred people a year who suffer and die from disease and parasites, millions die painful deaths each year because of these things, not to mention hostile weather patterns like winds in California that are spreading wildfires lol smh......Earth just seems designed weird. Almost like a deathtrap.

EUROPEAN people were religious thousands of years before the coming of the catholic church and any oppressive government... THERE WAS NO A RICH TRADITION OF ATHEISM IN EUROPE, There were atheist in ancient Greece but there numbers never grew to very large and the rest of Europe was pagan for centuries until Christianity was forced on them or they willingly assimilated. As for atheism in Asia, only theravada buddhism is really atheistic but even today they make up the minority of buddhist and generally speaking buddhism in many ways is not atheistic at all it's much more agnostic than anything else. SOME nations have more religious people some have more atheist THEIR weather has nothing to do with this. Your entire argument is a correlation is causation logical fallacy.

WHY ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DYING FROM parasites??? because they are living in unsanitary conditions eating or drinking bad water. why are they doing this?? because they have no choice and those of us who have the ability to ensure more people have access to proper food and water don't share our financial resources with them. Even if about 1 million people die from various parasites each year...... there are about 3.5 billion people on earth.

WILD FIRES are a good and natural part of nature they revitalize the forest and cause new growth.

EARTH SEEM DESIGNED WEIRD??? Who are you do make such a claim???

LOL I still think the harsh weather plays a role in the high amount of atheists and agnostics in Asia and Europe, no one here can say for sure how religious Europeans were back in the day, there were no scientific polls back then and pagan religions can go in all kinds of different directions. Buddhism is more agnostic then atheistic, I agree with that, but either way there are MANY atheists and agnostics in Asia and Europe today. If the cold has nothing to do with it, then I'm sure the fucked up state of the world does.

And you don't think Earth was designed weird??? You don't see the constant death traps nature has for animals and humans as weird? Hurricanes, volcanoes that have wiped out entire cities, cold weather that freezes people to death, wildfires spread by winds that are destroying THOUSANDS of homes and making people homeless, INVISIBLE DISEASES AND PARASITES, floods that ruin entire lives???

These are not deathtraps??? Earth was not designed well, UNLESS Earth was DESIGNED to be a suffering madhouse in which millions of living things suffer in misery for their entire lives in some kind of way. Yes many people have great lives of course, but in the grand scheme of things, Earth is definitely some kind of deathtrap. Go sleep outside in the freezing cold tomorrow and tell me how fun that is. Go swim in a random river somewhere and tell us how many parasites you caught. Earth was designed fucked up, definitely not designed by a perfect being or anything close to one.

The cold weather argument is nonsense and since you have no proper rebuttal i shall over on..... No i don't think earth was designed weird because DEATH is part of the system. Those natural phenomenons you mentioned are part of the system as well and they keep the earth in a state in which it can support life.

PEOPLE have slept in the cold people did that for centuries and survived people have also swam in rivers for centuries and survived, if they didn't our species would have died off a long time ago. This in not eden people die and god himself said we would suffer but we also thrive and survive.

Your assumption that because there is suffering then that means the earth is weird makes no sense because there is supposed to be suffering

 

[sunlord]

What if God was one of us?

Do you mean "god" was once a human, or some form of human?

I notice you used the word "was", which is interesting.

God goes through transitions. Or at least the public consciousness of it does.

I still find it interesting that the gods were said to be so active back in the day. The Bible god appeared as a burning bush at one point, and some say Jesus was god himself.

And many other gods in ancient days appeared as dragons, humans, blue figures and whoever. A shame the gods don't really want to appear up close and in person nowadays, not sure why they're so shy now. Assuming these were gods and not aliens of some kind.

The average person did not get to see the burning bush and most people on earth did not get to walk with Christ for all we know god could still directly be doing miracles but you have not experienced it.

Maybe but it's also possible that there are a bunch of gods creating miracles, people throughout the world credit all kinds of gods for miracles, some even pray to multiple gods. Some don't pray to any god and still have miracles happen to them, life is weird like that.

I've actually experienced miracles, but for all I know, maybe it was an angel (or magic ghost) that helped me. Who really knows who is doing what out there. It could be just luck too.

FOR THERE TO BE A GOD it would logically have to be some form of singular entity, there cannot be multiple gods all doing things the others don't know about agree with or allow to happen.

to a certain degree GOD BLESSES THE GOOD AND THE BAD and much in life is either random or simply an act of the laws of nature that god has set up. However people who are spiritually developed know the difference.

You're making assumptions about what god is, why can't there be several gods? There's no real evidence one single god made everything, if that's the case, are you willing to admit your god is very evil? One single god made all the horrible diseases and parasites of the world? THINK about what you are admitting to. Are you SURE you want to admit one god made all the horrible disasters of the world?

I guess any god or gods out there could be blessing people at random, but genetics and family structure plus environment play even larger roles in improving lives compared to random miracles from invisible gods. I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritually developed", you mean religious or superstitious people compared to non-religious people? Cuz plenty of non-religious people out there have much more blessed and pleasant lives then religious people I know.

I am talking and GOD with a capital "G" not just a deity that is worshiped. There can only be 1 OMNIPOTENT being if there are 2 then that means none of them are OMNIPOTENT. Having multiple gods would mean that there EXIST at least one entity that can exist outside of the omnipotent power/will of an omnipotent being which would mean that each entity would not be omnipotent and therefore not GOD. If there are two gods it means that they would in essence cancel each other out. because there would be a being that each could not control if they so wished it. Omnipotence is essential to A GOD existing.

God defines what is good and fully understands evil, a disaster should not be defined as being evil there consequences can be described as being BAD but bad should not be termed as evil there are big distinctions that can be made between the two concepts. If you actually follow the metaphysical messages in genesis and what it is trying to teach you would understand that GOD firstly made human existence perfect but We decided to change the nature of the world into what it is today.

By spiritually developed i mean those people who can put their lives and all of humanity in universal context and see/ feel the presence of GOD when he moves in their life and the world. God is helping the non-religious as well they just don't have the benefit of knowing it. SOME people cannot hear certain sounds or see certain colors, they just don't have those senses. Some people lose their sight and have diminished hearing ability and never realize it....... SOME people cannot sense the Spiritual or lose their ability to.

Well there's no evidence of an omnipotent god, what makes you think any god out there is omnipotent? It should seem pretty obvious by observing the world that there's no such thing as an ALL POWERFUL and perfect god, the human body has many design flaws and the world has a ton of design flaws too. This world was designed for suffering, animals have to eat each other alive to survive, not exactly an ethical and fun way to live life if you're a baby animal or a sick one, even a healthy animal is constantly paranoid about its environment in the wild. I think an all powerful god would have made everyone plant eaters, it would be a much more efficient world and would create a lot less unnecessary suffering.

You can blame Adam and Eve all you want, but that still makes no sense because people were born imperfect, so your so called god should have known ahead of time people would fuck up. Funny how an omnipotent god such as yours could create humans who are by nature very flawed. If there is an omnipotent god out there, then I'm not sure where the hell it's hiding, cuz the world is filled with imperfection.

of course there is no objective proof of God if i could prove god EXISTED objectively then it would not be GOD. You can only say something has a Design flaw if you know why it was designed DO you know why the proposed GOD we are talking about designed mankind the way he did??? if not then you are not qualified to say mankind has a design flaw.

GOD judges freewill creatures based on what they do not on what they might do.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know, your god is just hiding somewhere in never never land. I see zero evidence of an omnipotent or perfect god. TRUST ME, I WISH there was a perfect and angelic god out there somewhere, but looking at Earth, I don't think that kind of god exists in our solar system. Maybe in some other far out galaxy out there, but in this solar system?? HAHA hell no.

And humanity has obvious design flaws, are you kidding me? Not everyone is built tough and strong, some people are born allergic to water, how the fuck do you explain that? How do you explain some people being allergic to peanut butter and even some kinds of vegetables? How do you explain some people getting hernias and tumors, if the human body was designed perfectly?

As far as free will, you know that's a myth right? We have LIMITED WILL, free will is IMAGINARY and I can prove it. In fact, scientists are slowly coming to the same conclusion.

DEATH IS PART OF THE SYSTEM. Your conception of what is perfect and WHAT GOD would consider PERFECTION are not the same. You see death and suffering as signs of imperfection but you have to remember THAT from the perspective of GOD losing your life is not really death in fact from a certain outlook physical death is actually preferable to life. Is the universe of the condition of humanity ideal??? no but the system we have today is perfect in that it does what is should do.

Freewill is far from imaginary you are convoluting the concept of freewill in science with how it is understood in philosophy and religion.

 

[kingblaze84]

I wish Jesus could do something about this cold ass weather, I would turn Christian tomorrow if winter time and this cold weather ends NOW. I'm tired of this shit.

God is not a genie and won't just give you what you want just because you ask for it and besides some people like the cold.

You think it's a coincidence colder nations have the highest atheist and agnostic rates? I know some people like the cold but I bet those same people wear coats and gloves when it gets 30 degrees and lower.

those nations have higher amounts of atheist because they have money and money,pleasure and hedonism pulls people away from god. Those nations got wealthy because of historical and geographical reasons.

IF YOU PRAY for cold and some people pray for warmth who will god listen to???

I think the cold and sad weather in Europe and parts of Asia play a big role in the high rates of atheism there too, cold weather is harsh and not fun to deal with. Many of the places in Europe and Asia with high rates of atheists and agnostics are in nations that are not even rich, Estonia and Finland are not rich nations, neither is Lithuania.

I think suicide rates are higher in colder nations too but I could be wrong. But obviously, Earth doesn't really care about the feelings of human beings or animals. Not exactly the signs of a nice, good "god".

cold weather has nothing to do with it Europe was once very religious now they are not but their climate has not significantly changed in hundreds of years so you cannot blame the weather for their lack of religiosity. In addition middle/eastern Europe and Russia are some of the coldest European nations and they have increasing numbers of religious people. Very hot and humid weather can be harsh as well BUT many hot places are very religious.

BEING RICH is relative but clearly the .

Ifhanks to the natural systems that god set in place. Instead you complain about the few hundreds that die from parasites AND don't understand that those people are only dying because of the greed and selfishness of other humans

Europe was once under oppressive governments that forced religion on people with several inquisitions, people were persecuted there at one point if they spoke out against religious regimes. But even back then, there was still a rich tradition of atheism in Europe and parts of Asia. Yeah many hot nations are religious (or claim to be), but we all know about the many problems religious societies tend to have worldwide. Suicide rates being higher in colder nations makes sense, the cold isn't exactly a welcoming thing.

I know there are many great things about life but that doesn't mean people can ignore the natural horrors of the world either. It's more then just a few hundred people a year who suffer and die from disease and parasites, millions die painful deaths each year because of these things, not to mention hostile weather patterns like winds in California that are spreading wildfires lol smh......Earth just seems designed weird. Almost like a deathtrap.

EUROPEAN people were religious thousands of years before the coming of the catholic church and any oppressive government... THERE WAS NO A RICH TRADITION OF ATHEISM IN EUROPE, There were atheist in ancient Greece but there WHY ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DYING FROM parasites??? because they are living in unsanitary conditions eating or drinking bad water. why are they doing this?? because they have no choice and those of us who have the ability to ensure more people have access to proper food and water don't share our financial resources with them. Even if about 1 million people die from various parasites each year...... there are about 3.5 billion people on earth.

WILD FIRES are a good and natural part of nature they revitalize the forest and cause new growth.

EARTH SEEM DESIGNED WEIRD??? Who are you do make such a claim???

LOL I still think the harsh weather plays a role in the high amount of atheists and agnostics in Asia and Europe, no one here can say for sure how religious Europeans were back in the day, there were no scientific polls back then and pagan religions can go in all kinds of different directions. Buddhism is more agnostic then atheistic, I agree with that, but either way there are MANY atheists and agnostics in Asia and Europe today. If the cold has nothing to do with it, then I'm sure the fucked up state of the world does.

And you don't think Earth was designed weird??? You don't see the constant death traps nature has for animals and humans as weird? Hurricanes, volcanoes that have wiped out entire cities, cold weather that freezes people to death, wildfires spread by winds that are destroying THOUSANDS of homes and making people homeless, INVISIBLE DISEASES AND PARASITES, floods that ruin entire lives???

These are not deathtraps??? Earth was not designed well, UNLESS Earth was DESIGNED to be a suffering madhouse in which millions of living things suffer in misery for their entire lives in some kind of way. Yes many people have great lives of course, but in the grand scheme of things, Earth is definitely some kind of deathtrap. Go sleep outside in the freezing cold tomorrow and tell me how fun that is. Go swim in a random river somewhere and tell us how many parasites you caught. Earth was designed fucked up, definitely not designed by a perfect being or anything close to one.

The cold weather argument is nonsense and since you have no proper rebuttal i shall over on..... No i don't think earth was designed weird because DEATH is part of the system. Those natural phenomenons you mentioned are part of the system as well and they keep the earth in a state in which it can support life.

PEOPLE have slept in the cold people did that for centuries and survived people have also swam in rivers for centuries and survived, if they didn't our species would have died off a long time ago. This in not eden people die and god himself said we would suffer but we also thrive and survive.

Your assumption that because there is suffering then that means the earth is weird makes no sense because there is supposed to be suffering

Death is something I can live with, it's the MASSIVE SUFFERING that so many animals and humans go through that is the most disturbing part of life. Like I said, if the cold isn't a factor in the atheist and agnostic populations being huge in Asia and Europe, then the suffering in the world is for sure. Many people do thrive and do well like I said, but the world is still very weird and strange because of the amount of UNECESSARY cruelty and pain in the world. My life is good enough but I've seen some good people go through some ridiculous situations, their innocent children going through the same.

So you want to admit that your god made this world a suffering madhouse for millions of people and innocent animals on purpose? Than goodness gracious, your god is a sadistic monster for sure. Your god is almost pure evil if what you say is true. I would gladly join Lucifer's side if your horrible and evil god is actually a real thing. Be very careful in what you admit to, because you are making your god seem more and more evil as you continue on. You make it seem as if your god is Jeffery Dahmer himself.

 

[kingblaze84]

@sunlord

The system of the world is far from perfect, there's suffering animals and humans all over the world, dying painful deaths and children are shown no mercy in many ways either. This is a very, very flawed system here on Earth, there are many great things about Earth obviously but just as many bad things too, what perfection am I supposed to see? Look at all the animals that have gone extinct lol, Earth like I said is a deathtrap in so many ways.

And freewill is mostly imaginary, the choices some people have are WAYYYY better compared to the choices people without privilege or luck or good family/environment have. What choices in life does a child born crippled and retarded have compared to the children of Michael Jordan? Free will is not really free, it's CONTROLLED and LIMITED by outside forces. Science is backing this up and I'm obviously gonna take the side of science over religion.

 

[sunlord]

@kingblaze84

The unnecessary cruelty is the world is carried out by humans animals don't usually kill each other for no reason they kill for food and on survival instinct. The existence of suffering is not necessarily cruel because most people don't suffer just for the pleasure of others. I already told you why god made the earth and why people suffer.... Your conclusion that just because suffering exists then that must mean god is cruel is not logical at all.

 

[sunlord]

@sunlord

The system of the world is far from perfect, there's suffering animals and humans all over the world, dying painful deaths and children are shown no mercy in many ways either. This is a very, very flawed system here on Earth, there are many great things about Earth obviously but just as many bad things too, what perfection am I supposed to see? Look at all the animals that have gone extinct lol, Earth like I said is a deathtrap in so many ways.

And freewill is mostly imaginary, the choices some people have are WAYYYY better compared to the choices people without privilege or luck or good family/environment have. What choices in life does a child born crippled and retarded have compared to the children of Michael Jordan? Free will is not really free, it's CONTROLLED and LIMITED by outside forces. Science is backing this up and I'm obviously gonna take the side of science over religion.

Suffering is not a sign or imperfection can you move one from that topic or prove that it is??? Animals have gone extinct and new species have arisen so what's your point??

You are confusing the philosophical concept of FREEWILL with the neuroscientific concept of freewill there is a distinction between them.... you are also confusing freewill with opportunity