Iraqi troops suffer mass slaughter one mile from Baghdad: the general ISIS Chat thread

[janklow]

Let the Russians, Syrians and Iranians worry about Syria, America has enough problems.

remind me again about your consistent objection to outside nations meddling in other nation's affairs?

 

[janklow]

I have a question, why are some Americans so arrogant? Since the suspension to talks over Syria, I read a few articles where certain people think we should put the military option back on the table and threaten to shoot down Russian planes. It's either these fool don't give a fuck about our servicemen or they think Russia will seat idly and watch while we knoch their planes out the sky when they have the ability to deny access to some of our aircrafts?

Americans get told CONSTANTLY how much more powerful their military is than anyone else (even by people talking shit about America) and how easily out technological power can do X or Y thing. it's less arrogance and more absolute ignorance of what American military forces can do in the real world.

 

[kingblaze84]

There are no powerful moderate groups in Syria, the only powerful rebel groups are ISIS and Al-Qaeda sympathizers who don't favor civil rights for religious minorities and women.

"only powerful rebel groups" != "no Syrians who aren't a) on Assad's side, b) AQ sympathizers or c) ISIS"

also going to point out that while you don't like outside meddling from the US... outside meddling is some of why there are these powerful non-moderate groups.

also...

The "moderate" rebels are few in number, even American officials have admitted this, which is why America relied so heavily on the Kurds for a long time to take out ISIS targets. But the Kurdish groups are bombarded by ISIS and the Turks and their allies nowadays obviously, so American influence in Syria is not high.

so are you saying Syrian Kurds are not powerful and/or not moderate?

now Syrian Kurds aren't some magical solution to The Problem That Is Syria, but hey.

Julian Assange has hacked emails from the State Dept confirming that a huge chunk or most of the Syrian rebels had strong ties to Al-Qaeda and its allies. And yet, American weapons were still sent to these people haha....I hope Julian Assange releases his reports soon, only a matter of time.

shit, everyone has "strong ties" to everyone else as is convenient.

actual question should really be "who were the weapons DIRECTLY sent to?" Assange will probably release more stuff since he's now trolling people to make money.

The Kurds in Syria definitely still have some influence but their hands are tied because of financial problems and bombardment from several sides. As far as meddling from outside groups, yeah that's happening but notice America does not have permission from Assad's govt to bomb Syria. Neither does Turkey, who is violating the sovereignty of Iraq and Syria. Assad has invited his allies to help him, as is expected. America being a busy body and risking bombing Russian troops by bombing Syria blindly is only asking for trouble. If America bombs Russian troops by accident, or if Russia shoots an American plane down, things will escalate and it's not worth it.

And who were the American weapons sent directly to? According to many reports, people many times with direct or close ties to Al-Qaeda back in 2011.

 

[kingblaze84]

Let the Russians, Syrians and Iranians worry about Syria, America has enough problems.

remind me again about your consistent objection to outside nations meddling in other nation's affairs?

I'd trust a unicorn over American government judgment in Syria at this point. Let other nations handle Syria, America just makes problems in that region much, much worse. People in Damascus prefer Russians and Iranians to the Americans anyway.

 

[janklow]

As far as meddling from outside groups, yeah that's happening but notice America does not have permission from Assad's govt to bomb Syria. Neither does Turkey, who is violating the sovereignty of Iraq and Syria. Assad has invited his allies to help him, as is expected.

so if American has permission from Iraq, you're totally fine with that?

 

[janklow]

I'd trust a unicorn over American government judgment in Syria at this point. Let other nations handle Syria, America just makes problems in that region much, much worse. People in Damascus prefer Russians and Iranians to the Americans anyway.

completely (and mysteriously) missing the point. if your complaint is meddling in other nations' affairs, why do you only object when the US does it? if it's just about American judgement, why do you use that argument falsely?

 

[kingblaze84]

As far as meddling from outside groups, yeah that's happening but notice America does not have permission from Assad's govt to bomb Syria. Neither does Turkey, who is violating the sovereignty of Iraq and Syria. Assad has invited his allies to help him, as is expected.

so if American has permission from Iraq, you're totally fine with that?

Nope, because America will only make a bad situation worse in Iraq. Shia militias are on record as saying they will attack any US soldier seen there, I'd rather Iran and others handle the giant disaster of Iraq. Once Mosul is taken away from Islamic State, the refugee problem is going to be immense and intense, and of course America will be blamed for pretty much any future problems that happen there anyway. So no, busy body American cowboys shouldn't be involved militarily in Iraq either. America creates chaos and disaster almost anywhere it goes in the region.

 

[kingblaze84]

I'd trust a unicorn over American government judgment in Syria at this point. Let other nations handle Syria, America just makes problems in that region much, much worse. People in Damascus prefer Russians and Iranians to the Americans anyway.

completely (and mysteriously) missing the point. if your complaint is meddling in other nations' affairs, why do you only object when the US does it? if it's just about American judgement, why do you use that argument falsely?

Simple, because American judgment in the Middle East SUCKS. America actively funds and supports Israel's crimes against humanity in Palestine, with America being so hated in the region, it makes no sense for cowboy, war crime loving Americans to create even more enemies in Syria. Oh and by the way, Assad has not given permission for war crime loving Americans to bomb Syria. That's reason enough. Hezbollah, Iran, Russia and others can do all the dirty work themselves, America has fucked things up bad enough in Libya, Yemen, Iraq and Afghanistan already.

With a horrific and terrible track record such as America's in the region, I'd trust a gang of 20 guinea pigs before I trust idiot, fucktard American officials in ANYTHING they do in Iraq or Syria. With Hillary coming into office in a few months, I am confident she will make things much, much worse with time. So forgive me if I have an EXTREMELY low opinion of how idiot American officials handle things there.

 

[janklow]

Nope, because America will only make a bad situation worse in Iraq.

in that case, please stop using the argument that Assad has invited allies to help them as an argument for why they should/should not be in the conflict.

 

[janklow]

Simple, because American judgment in the Middle East SUCKS.

please stop dodging the point. if it's about judgment, why does it matter whether or not America is meddling in another nation, as you have stated before? if it's about the meddling, why do you ignore this from others?

Oh and by the way, Assad has not given permission for war crime loving Americans to bomb Syria. That's reason enough.

except that as you have just stated, you don't actually care about this as a reason.

 

[kingblaze84]

Nope, because America will only make a bad situation worse in Iraq.

in that case, please stop using the argument that Assad has invited allies to help them as an argument for why they should/should not be in the conflict.

Hate on Assad all you want, at the end of the day, he is a Syrian and Syrians should determine what is best for Syrians. Like all governments, it may use allies to further its purposes, and people in Damascus without question favor Russia and Iran over Americans. In Iraq, Baghdad's bankrupt govt is desperate, and yes it does want America to back up much of its operations. But that relationship with America is only going to bring Baghdad a TON of heartache and severe pain in the present/future. Even after Mosul is taken from ISIS, Baghdad's relationship with the USA will bring it a ton of hatred and worse coming its way. Guaranteed, ask the govt of Afghanistan how well it's doing. Sunnis and even many Shia still hate the govt of Baghdad, America is in a giant quicksand battle backing that bankrupt and hated govt up.

 

[kingblaze84]

Simple, because American judgment in the Middle East SUCKS.

please stop dodging the point. if it's about judgment, why does it matter whether or not America is meddling in another nation, as you have stated before? if it's about the meddling, why do you ignore this from others?

Oh and by the way, Assad has not given permission for war crime loving Americans to bomb Syria. That's reason enough.

except that as you have just stated, you don't actually care about this as a reason.

It's not just about the meddling, I already said America's judgment in the Middle East sucks. I have zero faith in America resolving the crises in Iraq and Syria. DO YOU? Please tell me why I should have faith in what America is doing there, after FIFTEEN years of giant disasters and catastrophes, why the FUCK should I believe America is going to do anything remotely smart in that region. Especially with Hillary coming into office soon.

 

[MrSoutCity]

One Mosul get liberated, Iraq is going to become a huge cluster fuck. Sunni shia and Kurds are gonna duke it out.

 

[kingblaze84]

The operation to retake Mosul began today, surprisingly. I thought it would have started a little later in the year or next year, but ISIS is losing much of its fighters to good fighting from Kurdish soldiers and Shia militias (many Iranian) today. The fighting is intense and Kurdish militia members have said the operation likely will take 2 months, maybe longer. The coalitions will take over Mosul eventually, but holding the land for months and years will be a very bloody process. It's going to be an interesting few months, I doubt Iraq or Syria will see peace after ISIS loses most or all its territory in Iraq and Syria, but let's hope the mess is not as bloody and chaotic as I expect.

 

[kingblaze84]

One Mosul get liberated, Iraq is going to become a huge cluster fuck. Sunni shia and Kurds are gonna duke it out.

I was just thinking this. The Shia militias and Iraqi soldiers will hold Mosul for awhile, but then people will retaliate for the upcoming Shia militia and Iraqi soldier atrocities that are bound to happen. It's already happening in some other Iraqi cities, and many Sunnis in pretty much all the cities recently liberated say the Iraqi govt is just as bad as ISIS. Refugees are treated poorly.....

Kurdish soldiers on CNN today admitted they likely will fight people in or around Mosul in another few years or sooner, against Iraqi govt soldiers as well. Saddam was a bad guy, but he was a genius in holding Iraq together the way he did.

 

[janklow]

Hate on Assad all you want, at the end of the day

if you're not going to hate on Assad, you have NO GROUNDS to criticize anyone else's bad behavior.

In Iraq, Baghdad's bankrupt govt is desperate, and yes it does want America to back up much of its operations. But that relationship with America is only going to bring Baghdad a TON of heartache and severe pain in the present/future.

fine, but by YOUR logic, that's Baghdad's call and you should respect it.

 

[janklow]

It's not just about the meddling, I already said America's judgment in the Middle East sucks.

not the point. if you're complaining about America's judgment, plans, whatever, fine, but that's aside from whether or not they're "meddling." we've heard some variation of this "meddling" argument repeatedly. are we still going to?

 

[janklow]

One Mosul get liberated, Iraq is going to become a huge cluster fuck. Sunni shia and Kurds are gonna duke it out.

probably still be a clusterfuck whether they duke it out or not

 

[kingblaze84]

Hate on Assad all you want, at the end of the day

if you're not going to hate on Assad, you have NO GROUNDS to criticize anyone else's bad behavior.

In Iraq, Baghdad's bankrupt govt is desperate, and yes it does want America to back up much of its operations. But that relationship with America is only going to bring Baghdad a TON of heartache and severe pain in the present/future.

fine, but by YOUR logic, that's Baghdad's call and you should respect it.

I've criticized Assad's behavior several times already though, same with the Russians at times. Syrians elected Assad as president, so his government and other Syrians should get the final say, even if you don't respect the results of Assad's election a few years ago. America's history of toppling governments is very disastrous lately and it has no business trying to topple another one.

As far as Baghdad's desperate call for US support, I do respect it, doesn't mean I like it. Let's see how long America is willing to play babysitter in Iraq, as occupying Iraqi forces deal with problems they really can't afford.

 

[kingblaze84]

Although Kurdish soldiers, Shia militias and even Iraqi soldiers are fighting bravely against ISIS near Mosul lately, ISIS was still able to invade the Iraqi city of Kirkuk earlier today or last night, a city made up of mostly Kurds and probably the Kurdish stronghold in Iraq....they were able to penetrate the city's center with trucks and sleeper cells and kill many civilians, security guards and police officers, the attack lasted from noon to nighttime. NBC news has an interesting report on it, the fighters even entered a power plant that was well guarded, killing many workers inside. Attacks like these are why the offensive has not even reached the city of Mosul yet, ISIS somehow still can send many fighters many miles away from Mosul. An American soldier also died this week
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/is...uk-reality-check-amid-mosul-offensive-n670571
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/22/world/middleeast/iraq-kirkuk.html?_r=0

ISIS Attack in Kirkuk Is Reality Check Amid Mosul Offensive

After a week of successfully repelling ISIS near the Iraqi city of Mosul, Friday brought a reality check.

On Friday, ISIS militants launched a surprise assault on the Iraqi city of Kirkuk, far away from the frontlines some 90 miles to the southeast.