Do u feel Blacks associate ourselves with poverty 2much at the cost of not identifying asMiddleClass

[MarcusGarvey]

The issue needs a bit of nuance

Black American poverty was/is government policy that's been rolled forward

Mass incarceration through drug war took the heads of households away, the rate of incarceration has never been seen in the modern world

Less 2 parent households

The intra racial homicide rate is way too high

Education is the only way out for the masses - too many who complete it have student loans as big as mortgages

Manufacturing jobs that supported non college educated men are almost gone

What I would say to someone who grew like I did - lived in public housing for part of my life - is to get an education - a trade, degree, diploma, in something tangible not no bullshit major, and grind from there. And politically blacks should demand the Democratic Party subsidize post secondary and SBA loans for black businesses. As well as black mayors look to hook up black contractors

@2stepz_ahead

 

[2stepz_ahead]

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

quite a few....

but this question is you wanting me to prove before you follow advice. why is me saying you are better than what you think you are met with well who you help? if I said I made millionaires. would that make me legit?

sounds like wanting a guarantee before you correct who you are.

I'm curious if the jealousy comment. I'm truly lost in that. what would I be jealous of?

so to end this post, I have helped many lives. whether it be financially, emotionally, mentally...investments, tricks ifvthe trades. pitfalls to avoid. how to get their child.

it's all be done and without wanting anything back but a request to hell someine else. not even wanting a thank you.

so my question to you is, why is someone in my position met with such strain and untrustworthiness?

what does that say?

Am I really that loud or are you confusing the message?

this post is damn near offensive.

been in this site for years helping behind the scenes an never talk about it because that would be loud.

this post has limits that can give a person an out and say.....see you can't help.

how many have I helped.... many.

how many became millionaires...that's uo to them an i don't count pockets but they getting it or changing their mindframe and becoming rich mentally. that's my goal.

you can walk into a gym an ask a trainer how many people has he helped if he's trying to help you get to where you want to be. so if he has no Mr universe clients. does that negate him wanting to help you when he's saying damn bruh....put in the work and how far you want to go is how far you will go. but learn the basics and build a solid foundation.

none of this shit is easy an no one can give you a short cut or guarantee. you know what your capible of. my eye for potential is only as good as you will to push yourself.

 

[2stepz_ahead]

The issue needs a bit of nuance

Black American poverty was/is government policy that's been rolled forward

Mass incarceration through drug war took the heads of households away, the rate of incarceration has never been seen in the modern world

Less 2 parent households

The intra racial homicide rate is way too high

Education is the only way out for the masses - too many who complete it have student loans as big as mortgages

Manufacturing jobs that supported non college educated men are almost gone

What I would say to someone who grew like I did - lived in public housing for part of my life - is to get an education - a trade, degree, diploma, in something tangible not no bullshit major, and grind from there. And politically blacks should demand the Democratic Party subsidize post secondary and SBA loans for black businesses. As well as black mayors look to hook up black contractors

@2stepz_ahead

really bruh?

have I not been saying just this same for years but lately been focusing on starting you yourself to be able to start to get right?

what does any of it matter when you not right in your head? with a poor mentality you will throw it all away at the first sign of adversity.

without the right mentality. you won't even want higher education let alone education. and how can you learn anything when you don't want to be there?

when I first commented in this thread...I said poor mentality. did I not? all that shit you named .....good ideas. but how can you get there when you can't get out you way to see it nor put in the hard work to maintain it?

you don't jump to the big house without a solid foundation otherwise the shit will just fall under a light wind nor can you keep it up because the maintainence requires hardwork. not can you keep it out of foreclosure without the financial mind to maintain finances.

this is a step by step process. and it starts with you.

but I can negate everything you typed by saying...that's all good but we struggling. tell me the hows and where's.

unlike most I'll challenge you to attempt first and then I'll guide. a man is can be more proud of his own accomplishments vs

someone holding his hand. but I'm not opposed to either.

are y'all getting it?

copping out...nope

making you focus... yep

can't say, I want to be a millionaire without a plan. ok, let's work on your plan. what do you want to do? what are you good at? are you willing to dig in and sacrifice?

shit ain't simple but it doesn't have to be soo hard.

 

[blakfyahking]

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

i don't count pockets

^^^ u a lie :joy:

 

[Fosheezy]

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

quite a few....

but this question is you wanting me to prove before you follow advice. why is me saying you are better than what you think you are met with well who you help? if I said I made millionaires. would that make me legit?

sounds like wanting a guarantee before you correct who you are.

I'm curious if the jealousy comment. I'm truly lost in that. what would I be jealous of?

so to end this post, I have helped many lives. whether it be financially, emotionally, mentally...investments, tricks ifvthe trades. pitfalls to avoid. how to get their child.

it's all be done and without wanting anything back but a request to hell someine else. not even wanting a thank you.

so my question to you is, why is someone in my position met with such strain and untrustworthiness?

what does that say?

Am I really that loud or are you confusing the message?

this post is damn near offensive.

been in this site for years helping behind the scenes an never talk about it because that would be loud.

this post has limits that can give a person an out and say.....see you can't help.

how many have I helped.... many.

how many became millionaires...that's uo to them an i don't count pockets but they getting it or changing their mindframe and becoming rich mentally. that's my goal.

you can walk into a gym an ask a trainer how many people has he helped if he's trying to help you get to where you want to be. so if he has no Mr universe clients. does that negate him wanting to help you when he's saying damn bruh....put in the work and how far you want to go is how far you will go. but learn the basics and build a solid foundation.

none of this shit is easy an no one can give you a short cut or guarantee. you know what your capible of. my eye for potential is only as good as you will to push yourself.

Well I appreciate it if you are the type to help others trying to make a way. I'm the same way, just how I was raised.

I wasnt exactly accusing you of anything though. Didn't mean to come off like that. I brought up jealousy to suggest I think it could be a more likely underlying issue in our neighborhoods and communities. I don't think we have enough ppl like u or i that really be pulling ppl to the side to help them change their lives truly and it could be because they just don't want to see anyone else succeed more than them due to feeling like it might somehow come at the price of losing their own success or something which is what I mean by jealousy

Good thoughts tho

 

[2stepz_ahead]

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

quite a few....

but this question is you wanting me to prove before you follow advice. why is me saying you are better than what you think you are met with well who you help? if I said I made millionaires. would that make me legit?

sounds like wanting a guarantee before you correct who you are.

I'm curious if the jealousy comment. I'm truly lost in that. what would I be jealous of?

so to end this post, I have helped many lives. whether it be financially, emotionally, mentally...investments, tricks ifvthe trades. pitfalls to avoid. how to get their child.

it's all be done and without wanting anything back but a request to hell someine else. not even wanting a thank you.

so my question to you is, why is someone in my position met with such strain and untrustworthiness?

what does that say?

Am I really that loud or are you confusing the message?

this post is damn near offensive.

been in this site for years helping behind the scenes an never talk about it because that would be loud.

this post has limits that can give a person an out and say.....see you can't help.

how many have I helped.... many.

how many became millionaires...that's uo to them an i don't count pockets but they getting it or changing their mindframe and becoming rich mentally. that's my goal.

you can walk into a gym an ask a trainer how many people has he helped if he's trying to help you get to where you want to be. so if he has no Mr universe clients. does that negate him wanting to help you when he's saying damn bruh....put in the work and how far you want to go is how far you will go. but learn the basics and build a solid foundation.

none of this shit is easy an no one can give you a short cut or guarantee. you know what your capible of. my eye for potential is only as good as you will to push yourself.

Well I appreciate it if you are the type to help others trying to make a way. I'm the same way, just how I was raised.

I wasnt exactly accusing you of anything though. Didn't mean to come off like that. I brought up jealousy to suggest I think it could be a more likely underlying issue in our neighborhoods and communities. I don't think we have enough ppl like u or i that really be pulling ppl to the side to help them change their lives truly and it could be because they just don't want to see anyone else succeed more than them due to feeling like it might somehow come at the price of losing their own success or something which is what I mean by jealousy

Good thoughts tho

ok...it's all good.

just saying ....it's money to get out there.

you'd be surprised at what I do an how often I help other.

I look at it like...I'm cool. my wife is cool. no one else matters, so when I come back to the states I volunteer somewhere...in philly or charlotte. I help with scholarship around this time as well.

I adopted two church's in the DR that helps me care for orphans and the poor.. my next down I'm meeting my young niggas family to let them know I paying for his college courses an to make sure he's passing.. so while y'all think I'm stunting....nah I'm grinding and helping.

I help a Somali family that came across on a boat....you hear their stories.....it gets me hyped. i go back to my hood an try to encourage and it's always met with fight back on some..we dint Luke how you talking to us. or we dint need your help or how is should convince them they should be helped by me.

bruh..its getting to a point I'm about to say fukk it.

only a certain mentality would be below a poverty line and turn away help while being prideful.

shit is crazy

 

[2stepz_ahead]

Struggling and poverty is just part of the identity for a lot of us.

Most of the black ppl I know personally, though, are middle class to upper middle class, def not 'rich', but not impoverished either.

let me stop you there.

while I understand being poor and poverty....it's not nor will ever be part of my identity.

I fought alot for having a smart ass mouth and quick temper...

my identity is what defines me. being quick tempered and smart mouthed was apart of my personality. fighting was not..

I grew up and learned to control my mouth more..but it doesn't change my thoughts.

being poor is not a personality trait. so it can't be an identity..

being able to identify is understanding... being my identity is who I am.

see the difference

don't do that to yourself bruh.

you better than that as your people are.

Deliberate relegation to certain districts or neighborhoods due to redlining is in part to blame. The message is sent that you live in a place that is poor or undesirable (even if you aren't), therefore you must be poor or undesirable. I spoke with a woman recently who started an agency that provides emergency or affordable housing to the impoverished. She said something that I thought was profound. She said that (I'm paraphrasing here) poverty in America is trauma. You can always look and see that your life could be better. Whether you are watching television or simply going outside, you can see the demarcation between your circumstances and the circumstances of others. Moreover, we shame the poor in America. The poor should be protected and empowered, but that's not what happens here. We treat the poor like sub-humans because it makes it easier for us to turn our backs to the poor. That same mentality, coupled with the adversity and pain of being impoverished, makes it less likely that poor people are able to recognize their own value, or the value of their neighbor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're talking about is reframing? I.e., poverty is something that is happening to you or surrounds you, but does not define who you are? Which is to some extent true. It's also important to know that no substantive changes are going to be made within our society anytime soon. So, changing how one sees themselves is important. But, that means developing an understanding that whether you are poor or rich, those labels do not define your value in a society that is telling you the opposite and that shit isn't going to happen to overnight.

But, I don't think you said anything crazy man. You assumed competence. It's okay to assume competence as long as you don't have expectations of competence that cause you to shame folks. Because, like you said, being poor is not a personality trait, and generally speaking nobody wants to be nor strives to be poor, there are other forces at work. Can't control those forces, but individually someone can counter those forces and begin to decide how they see themselves.

these two cancel each other out

Interesting read...

Poverty Is Worse For Kids Than Being Born To A Crack-Using Mother

Jennifer Welsh

A decades-long study has found almost no differences between babies born to a crack mother and those born to a non-addicted mother - when the two groups are matched up by their socioeconomic status.

Both groups of low-income children were at a significant disadvantage when compared to an average child, which means that being born into poverty had more of an impact on that child's IQ scores and long-term accomplishment than did being born to a drug-addicted mother.

That's not to say there aren't problems with smoking crack during pregnancy: the likelihood of premature birth and other pregnancy complications goes up. Just like alcohol or smoking, crack isn't good for babies, and should be avoided.

The study itself looked only at babies who were born at full-term, not those born premature, to avoid these complications. Premature babies have all sorts of complications that could impact intelligence and emotional development.

In 1989, about one in six children born in Philadelphia were born to cocaine-positive mothers. The 25-year-long study followed 224 babies born between 1989 and 1992, half of whom had been exposed to cocaine before birth. Importantly, the babies were matched on their ethnic and socioeconomic background. Almost all of them were African American.

The children were examined every six months to every year, testing everything from intelligence to emotional development, achievement, and brain scans. When searching for effects of crack smoking mothers, what they really discovered was the impact of being born into poverty. Both groups - the control and those children who were born to crack smokers - scored lower than average on IQ and other tests.

"Given what we learned," study researcher Hallam Hurt told The Philadelphia Inquirer, "we are invested in better understanding the effects of poverty. How can early effects be detected? Which developing systems are affected? And most important, how can findings inform interventions for our children?"

They were also exposed to violence in their youth, which can cause depression, anxiety, and low self-esteem reports Philly.com:

81 percent of the children had seen someone arrested; 74 percent had heard gunshots; 35 percent had seen someone get shot; and 19 percent had seen a dead body outside - and the kids were only 7 years old at the time.

Read more about the study at Philly.com, including the success story of one such child, Jaimee Drakewood
http://www.businessinsider.com/crack-baby-myth-debunked-2013-7

to this

The issue needs a bit of nuance

Black American poverty was/is government policy that's been rolled forward

Mass incarceration through drug war took the heads of households away, the rate of incarceration has never been seen in the modern world

Less 2 parent households

The intra racial homicide rate is way too high

Education is the only way out for the masses - too many who complete it have student loans as big as mortgages

Manufacturing jobs that supported non college educated men are almost gone

What I would say to someone who grew like I did - lived in public housing for part of my life - is to get an education - a trade, degree, diploma, in something tangible not no bullshit major, and grind from there. And politically blacks should demand the Democratic Party subsidize post secondary and SBA loans for black businesses. As well as black mayors look to hook up black contractors

@2stepz_ahead

so you saying resourcex are available for you to make the statement?

smdh

 

[2stepz_ahead]

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

So the problem is niggas is lazy.

smdh...

just put it all down to just that huh?

ok.....

selectively yes.

niggas put in work on the shit they deem important.

the what's important would be the problem which goes back to mentality.

Alright lemme ask you this how many brothers you made out a millionaire or at least laced up on some plays to help them get closer to where they trying to be financially?

I ask because often what I notice is the niggas with all the answers to shit like this hardly ever seem to demonstrate the power of their wisdom beyond themselves individually. Then they cop a nerve to talk down on niggas who in fact ain't lazy but still just trying to figure they game out, but not giving any real solutions or profound ideas.

Could jealousy be the reason for some of this? Maybe that is one of the root problems.

Again how many brothers lives you done changed personally?

i don't count pockets

^^^ u a lie :joy:

no lie...

I often bring up you owning homes because in theory...you really aint got shit to say in this..

your ownership makes you above what you are defending..

but I guess you just wanna be at the party.

shrugs

the drinks are over there, bathroom first door on The left

 

[2stepz_ahead]

 

[luke1733]

Association with poverty might have an impact on someone finances, but the suggestion that some 50 percent (supposed percentage of blacks below middle class) of blacks possibly failed to consider this is retarded.

And even in the case where all blacks in poverty missed this I still think You merely talking about a symptom of a possible underlying issue, it's not pinpointing no real issues.

Niggas don't necessarily choose to associate with poverty. Often people associate poverty with us.

Man that OP is in shambles I don't even know if anyone in here know what the thread premise is and it's way too many walls of text in this bitch

Not in shambles at all. Just got a life. I figured I'd get back around to saying something when I felt like it, but honestly a bunch of y'all said quite a bit. Like I said, my point was never to pit middle class against lower class. I just thought one day how low the statistics/studies were for documenting anything on the Black Middle Class when the majority of African Americans are that. So, I figured I would go through the trouble and pull up numbers I found that were related enough to validate a point or a few points. For those who actually read the very long points I made you can see that a lot of what has been said are some of the points I highlighted, so yeah I agree with 80% of what's said.

The only point I wanted to show was to be careful of how one interprets statistics.

I was showing how it is very deceptive in the way some of the racial statistics are making comparisons between people that should not be compared due to the variants that render some comparisons illogical.



I think some, myself included, see some statistics and can forget that was is being implied by a statistic also very well might be plain unjustified. I gave quite a few examples detailing this. One example was the illogical nature that whites easily see when it comes to not comparing the total numbers of murders in the US committed by them. They can easily see the reason not to draw on this fact as telling an entire truth, but yet fail to see how comparing a people from the richest country on Earth and number five times in population that of African Americans is not a fair comparison to draw conclusions on comparing one's statistics against, logically. Therefore, if it isn't logic that is the basis, and they are using an illogical argument (that is not challenged by most) then I have to conclude the argument is being made to sell a narrative of which is distorted.

I hope this last example doesn't get misinterpreted, but it serves to illustrate somewhat a point.

If a person who has a leg cut off is compared in a 100meter dash to Carl Lewis then I have to question who is conducting this test, because I think eliminating important information/conditions is a sign of the utmost ignorance served as manipulation to convince others by brainwashing or repeating the same story that the amputee is running the same race and the conditions do not matter.

-If I buy a car I want to know what condition it is in? Why? It is because its performance will be based on the condition it is in. Can I improve its condition? Of course.

BELOW ARE MORE EXAMPLES OF MANIPULATING DATA TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE NOT RATIONAL.

- Do middle class kids not give the same effort to go to college and/to graduate debt free as the children of parents who make over $50million?

Well, based on statistics, more children from $50million parents graduate and have fewer loans or debt. Let's not talk about the conditions. They don't matter for the masses/majority.

My point is when making comparisons and using statistics to prove a point one must always look at the conditions and understand that the environment/conditions factor in to influence the results. The fewer variants one can find to use to differentiate two very similar things being compared (due to there being more similarities than minor differences) equals a more fair basis of comparison. Therefore, the more variants differentiate one group from another (due to their being more substantive differences than similarities) then the less one can draw a fair comparison between the two dissimilar groups.

In short: there are way to many differences between Af. Americans and White Americans economically, population, education, history, government influences, allies, banking systems etcetera