Blacks Make up 13% of the American Population But Commit Half of the Murders

[Plutarch]

There's the question do we commit more crime, or are the numbers a reflection of the fact blk ppl are disporpritonately targeted and arrested by the police

Yes, an important question, but your two potential answers aren't mutually exclusive. The obvious answer to me seems to be both, and both are backed by evidence. Both have a relationship with one another.

I believe the article makes this point and more.

Then a lot of cases end in plea deals regardless of a persons guilt because many ppl cannot afford adequate legal representation. Blk ppl especially

Yes, a very important point that is not nearly as emphasized as it should be. And this supports the argument that racism helps drives "black crime."

But i would argue you see more violence in blk neighborhoods more because the inhabitants are more disadvantaged, live in areas with high concentrations of poverty and less access to public services

If you control for deprivation, people of different races would be similarly predisposed to commit certain crime

Yes, I agree. Do you think I disagree? I believe that the article makes this same exact point.

 

[Plutarch]

It's been set up for us to know since we got here. It will continue to be set up for us to lose. I think that mitigates some of the blame we have to take one for these statistics.

If I understand you correctly, I generally agree.

However, I believe that no excuse can or should be made to give up responsibility (I'm not necessarily saying that you're saying this) for ourselves and our actions and decisions. I also believe that regardless of our woes and disadvantages, we still have a great potential for agency and change (I'm not necessarily saying that you disagree with this).

 

[Undefeatable]

Doesn't matter how much of certain crimes black people commit, white people created the ghetto, and so are ultimately responsible for black crime.

But black crime almost certainly does contribute to anti-black racism.

So this is what happens historically (simplifying somewhat) : White oppression ---> black crime ---> more white racism.

 

[Plutarch]

"If there is a high number of violent crime where the victim(s) and perpetrator(s) are both black, how can blacks decry any law enforcement misconduct towards black people?"

^That's the argument you'll see.

I said it in another thread: Many believe it's an immutable fact of nature that we black people are genetically predisposed to be dangerous violent criminals. And as a result, they believe highly aggressive use of force used against us is justified and necessary for the safety of officers and the betterment of society.

I agree. That's a bullshit argument, but it does point some of the problem to the system of police enforcement rather than white people per se. If black cops go just as hard as white cops, the problem isn't always necessarily about race per se but rather the institution of police enforcement and perhaps civil service and thus government altogether.

Those statistics on our violent criminality further reinforces these beliefs.

I would argue that those stats can reinforce those beliefs. Those stats can also provide clarity. Those stats are generally true, imo, but far from concluding that blacks are naturally violent, they can offer clarity because those stats exist for a reason, that is, they are a reflection of black struggle and oppression.

We shouldn't stick our heads in the sand in the face of apparently unattractive facts. Instead, we should confront these facts and dig deeper to what the truth of the matter is.

 

[Plutarch]

Care about what racist people believe bruhs

Do I care what racist people believe? Yes, I do. And many of you, in some shape or form, do also, regardless of what you might say to the contrary. Of course, I don't care about everything they believe.

Imo, racism comes from two places. Ignorance and/or stupidity. Those of the latter might be hopeless and thus rightfully disregarded. But those of the former can be and should be "saved," at the very least for the sake of the sanity of me and mine. Mutual understanding is the basis of peace.

So you either ignore them or "save" them ?

Racism is getting Black people killed by the numbers every day and those are the options ? You can't be serious.

Ugh, I'm already not too optimistic about the trajectory of our conversation. It seem that you've already decided to not even try to understand what I'm saying but instead are misconstruing my words and assuming the worst.

Let me be clear: Yes, those are options when dealing with racists, imo. Are they the only options? Of course not. How is that not obvious?? C'mon, man. I'm really not even sure what your beef is.

 

[Plutarch]

Is it true yes or no?

So blacks do do half the murders in the usa...ok ..

Yes, apparently so. However, much more should be and had been said about this so that hasty conclusions should be avoided.

 

[Plutarch]

Higher poverty = Higher crime

That was stated in the article....

Yes

The rest of the shit is based on a white perspective......

Are you saying that the rest is negligible because it's based on a white perspective? If so, can you explain?

I think the rest is what is most important and is thus worthy of discussion, which is why this thread was made.

For some reason, not too many people seem to be making any substantial critical engagement with the article's main point(s).

 

[bambu]

These figures also show that interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white.

What are the stats on false accusations????

Spoiler

white women still pin false rape on black men in 2017...
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.theroot.com/texas-white-woman-jailed-after-lying-about-being-raped-1793558681&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwibytrO_8_UAhWD8YMKHUvpDqMQFggUMAM&usg=AFQjCNGkihjA4Bizs3ydPW8sbacPfQkmDQ

With all the history of false accusations of rape and black men in this country, this statistical data is immaterial.....

Are you saying that the rest is negligible because it's based on a white perspective? If so, can you explain?

Pretty much....

Another poster already pointed out the author's word choice and obvious bias.....

 

[genocidecutter]

There just trying to put the blame on us.

 

[Plutarch]

Let me simplify then -

I don't see what relevance the article has to cops getting away with killing innocent Black people

- so FUCK the article.

First, I disagree. To say that the article has no relevance to cops getting away with killing innocent black people is bonkers and reeks of emotional bias. The article clearly presents a reason that points to the existence and increase of cops getting away with murdering blacks and even offers a solution (though partly half-assed, imo) to this very real problem that that article itself acknowledges

With that said, the ultimate relevance, imo, that this article concerns itself is not necessarily with cops murdering blacks. As said before, the relevance goes deeper than that.

If you don't care about that (which would be ironic), then that's perfectly fine. No one's forcing you to participate in this discussion. You can happily ignore the thread. But to say that the article is irrelevant is nonsense, imo. At worst, it's a discussion-starter. At best, it's something productive (and different) to chew on.

I really don't understand why you're getting so unreasonably emotional, no diss.

That said, if it's about having a genuine discussion about cops getting away with killing Black people,

Like I mentioned above, it's not/ You want the article to be one way, but it's not. It's mainly about a slightly different topic on the same general issue. That's not a bad thing. People can talk about different aspects of the same issue. Aren't you one of those posters who've said that it's perfectly fine to talk about one thing and another different thing (a la cop-on-black crime and black-on-black crime).

ipte why not stick to relevant shit ? Like did he point a gun at you ? Was he trying to kill you ? Did you see him commit a crime ?

That's perfectly fine too. We should be able to talk about anything, including what you so desperately want to talk about as well, which I also think is relevant. There are already many, many threads for what you want to talk about, and I'm sure you know that. This is a thread mainly on something slightly different.

 

[7figz]

How you goin to believe stats that aren't even demanded for every incident, and are allowed to be controlled by a racist system ?

When Trump came in office, I seem to recall some article where he was threatening to remove funding from some statistics / census providing agency, not too sure about which one.

Then there's the fact that police precincts are allowed to publish / not publish whatever they want.

There's a whole lot of reason why these numbers should be questioned.

 

[Plutarch]

Doesn't matter how much of certain crimes black people commit, white people created the ghetto, and so are ultimately responsible for black crime.

I generally agree.

I still contend that blacks cannot remain complacent and adopt a hopeless victim mentality. I advocate activism rather than passivism.

But black crime almost certainly does contribute to anti-black racism.

If I understand you correctly, most definitely. This is usually exhibited by ignorant or stupid non-blacks. This is why the white lady clutches her purse. This is why cops shoot unarmed black youth. This is why crimes are even blamed on the phantom black criminal. The media also has much to do with this.

So this is what happens historically (simplifying somewhat) : White oppression ---> black crime ---> more white racism.

Agreed. Good point. Simple but truthful historical trajectory that puts things into perspective.

 

[Plutarch]

Gotta go, but I'll be back.

 

[R0mp]

Where's the data/raw information from which these statistics were created? What hasn't been tracked, recorded, documented? What is the purpose of bringing it up?

In this author's case, he's basically saying "yeah there's police brutality, but let's not act like blacks are innocent angels here; in fact, they are the most criminal group, so...."

When it comes to us and folks quantifying our apparent criminality, it'd be negligent of me not to thorougly question the intent, given our history.

 

[Swiffness!]

"This has led to the growth of a divisive movement – ‘Black Lives Matter’ – which has only served to further polarize America down racial lines, obsessing on skin color and invoking white guilt, while ignoring the true causes of and solutions to police brutality."

Yawn. The thing I hate most about white ppl reaction to BLM is this insulting idea that niggas wasn't complaining about police brutality until Ferguson. Cracker please.

Conservatives will make every damn excuse in the book for criminal white folks that bust they guns at Federal police in Ruby Ridge or Waco or a National Wildlife Refuge.......but legal gun owners like Corey Jones or Philando get no forgiveness or leeway and are blamed for their own murders.

They ain't slick

I agree what you've said here, but I don't necessarily see the quoted material from the article as implying or saying that black folk wasn't complaining about police brutality until Ferguson.

its between the lines

"the growth of a divisive movement" = "everything was fine until THESE niggers showed up"

 

[Colin$mackabi$h]

Dont that make us eligible to become police officers?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Someone mentioned Inteligence Squared in my TED Talk topic. I checked it out and watched this debate.
http://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/policing-racially-biased

It's about Police Racial bias. You guys should check it out. Basically, they had two black people saying there is racial bias, and two white people saying there wasn't. At the end of the debate the whites were declared the winners. Now, all of us might look at it as bullshit, but honestly I see why they win. For some reason, our people just aren't good at refuting the BS. For those that don't watch, the white side stood solely on the fact that most violent crimes are committed in black and brown neighborhoods. They brought numbers. The black debaters did a good job of presenting historical and modern context, but they did a bad job of shooting down the numbers. They tried, but their attempts weren't strong enough and they lost the debate. I'm not saying they are dumb, but the people who take on these issues have to get smarter. Whenever numbers pop up, they falter and wither, and in this society, people won't really take your side serious if you can't provide number to support your side or at least shoot down he numbers on the other side.

 

[Madame_CJSkywalker]

Someone mentioned Inteligence Squared in my TED Talk topic. I checked it out and watched this debate.
http://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/policing-racially-biased

It's about Police Racial bias. You guys should check it out. Basically, they had two black people saying there is racial bias, and two white people saying there wasn't. At the end of the debate the whites were declared the winners. Now, all of us might look at it as bullshit, but honestly I see why they win. For some reason, our people just aren't good at refuting the BS. For those that don't watch, the white side stood solely on the fact that most violent crimes are committed in black and brown neighborhoods. They brought numbers. The black debaters did a good job of presenting historical and modern context, but they did a bad job of shooting down the numbers. They tried, but their attempts weren't strong enough and they lost the debate. I'm not saying they are dumb, but the people who take on these issues have to get smarter. Whenever numbers pop up, they falter and wither, and in this society, people won't really take your side serious if you can't provide number to support your side or at least shoot down he numbers on the other side.

racial bias is hard to prove in the context of a debate

if you were one of the blk debaters what numbers would have you presented? or what would you have done differently?

 

[bambu]

Someone mentioned Inteligence Squared in my TED Talk topic. I checked it out and watched this debate.
http://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/policing-racially-biased

It's about Police Racial bias. You guys should check it out. Basically, they had two black people saying there is racial bias, and two white people saying there wasn't. At the end of the debate the whites were declared the winners. Now, all of us might look at it as bullshit, but honestly I see why they win. For some reason, our people just aren't good at refuting the BS. For those that don't watch, the white side stood solely on the fact that most violent crimes are committed in black and brown neighborhoods. They brought numbers. The black debaters did a good job of presenting historical and modern context, but they did a bad job of shooting down the numbers. They tried, but their attempts weren't strong enough and they lost the debate. I'm not saying they are dumb, but the people who take on these issues have to get smarter. Whenever numbers pop up, they falter and wither, and in this society, people won't really take your side serious if you can't provide number to support your side or at least shoot down he numbers on the other side.

Because at the end of the day there is personal responsibility.....

The whole pound cake speech shit....

I agree in part, however the history of race and its effects on continued white hegemony in America cannot be downplayed or overlooked......

 

[Like Water]

Someone mentioned Inteligence Squared in my TED Talk topic. I checked it out and watched this debate.
http://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/policing-racially-biased

It's about Police Racial bias. You guys should check it out. Basically, they had two black people saying there is racial bias, and two white people saying there wasn't. At the end of the debate the whites were declared the winners. Now, all of us might look at it as bullshit, but honestly I see why they win. For some reason, our people just aren't good at refuting the BS. For those that don't watch, the white side stood solely on the fact that most violent crimes are committed in black and brown neighborhoods. They brought numbers. The black debaters did a good job of presenting historical and modern context, but they did a bad job of shooting down the numbers. They tried, but their attempts weren't strong enough and they lost the debate. I'm not saying they are dumb, but the people who take on these issues have to get smarter. Whenever numbers pop up, they falter and wither, and in this society, people won't really take your side serious if you can't provide number to support your side or at least shoot down he numbers on the other side.

racial bias is hard to prove in the context of a debate

if you were one of the blk debaters what numbers would have you presented? or what would you have done differently?

There are impoverished areas in Appalachia that are also privy to more crime and drugs than their middle-class counterparts. However, there are more impoverished neighborhoods in the black and brown community.

You take that logic and apply it to the situation. Coupled with known media bias, and how it affects the country's perception of us (ie. Central Park 5), history of policing and civil rights violations (Kalief Browder), and you have everything required to make a compelling case.