Debt Talks Just got Real(er)

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thatni99ajahmal;2979138 said:
So its not a simple process to get up and close wars just like that..

The last group of soldiers that were killed recently was bcuz they were closing a base and was attacked..

So for everyone screamin end the war it cant be ended at your convience by losing more soldiers life..

I'm confused, I always thought the war in Iraq was based on a lie? There havent been any weapons of mass destruction found there yet, am I wrong?

If there isnt, why the fuck are we still there? We're in there to steal oil resources and you know it.
 
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kingblaze84;2979172 said:
I'm confused, I always thought the war in Iraq was based on a lie? There havent been any weapons of mass destruction found there yet, am I wrong?

If there isnt, why the fuck are we still there? We're in there to steal oil resources and you know it.

I dont care about all that honestly im not a politcian i care about all my friends and co workers gettin home safely and not some rush job to end a war to appease you or anyone else like you...
 
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thatni99ajahmal;2979180 said:
I dont care about all that honestly im not a politcian i care about all my friends and co workers gettin home safely and not some rush job to end a war to appease you or anyone else like you...

Yep, and all those Iraqis overseas have the same feelings you have. They want the Americans to get out and stop killing their civilians for oil.

I hope your friends dont run into any angry Iraqis this year. And the next 10 years they will likely be there. Good luck to them.
 
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Mark cuban was on Bill Maher saying tax cuts have nothing to do with creating jobs. How does giving people more money who have record profits create jobs?

What creates jobs is demand the best way to create that would be to raise taxes and use govt spending on creating jobs on things like fixing our roads or fixing our schools whether it be fixing and painting the buildings or creating a better system for our teachers... By doing that you would create jobs, help business by the govt giving people jobs to spend on a companies products which would create demand causing more companies to hire more people which would help our debt by pumping more money into our economy.
 
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BlackxChild;2979556 said:
Mark cuban was on Bill Maher saying tax cuts have nothing to do with creating jobs. How does giving people more money who have record profits create jobs?

What creates jobs is demand the best way to create that would be to raise taxes and use govt spending on creating jobs on things like fixing our roads or fixing our schools whether it be fixing and painting the buildings or creating a better system for our teachers... By doing that you would create jobs, help business by the govt giving people jobs to spend on a companies products which would create demand causing more companies to hire more people which would help our debt by pumping more money into our economy.

Many republicans don't understand that. They are all about supply side economics.

Would you agree, that people in certain professions, could not and should not be republicans.
 
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kingblaze84;2965587 said:
Okay, so you agree the wars have bankrupted us almost completely, why not cut back on that first??? The SS and Medicare/Medicaid cuts are bad enough but without the end to the many wars out there, it just seems like the middle class and poor are being sold out again in favor of rich corporations (corporations that are getting rich thanks to the wars).

It's for that reason many Democrats are not willing to back Obama on the cuts to Medicare and SS. You say he's only going to increase retirement age but knowing Obama, he's willing to cut SS much more than that.

again...I'm not in the military sector, so i can't deem what is and what isn't necessary. I won't justify a baseless propandized war as the Iraq war. And I won't justify presidents being pussies and subverting congressional power by sending in marines/special forces instead of declaring a war.

But I will borrow Ron Pauls idea and push for the division of military spending into separate categories. Some military endeavors are nothing more than jobs bills, and if thats the case, fine but lets define them as such (credit to Bill Maher).

We can't make ending the wars our top priority. That is going to take a lot of time. but we can push for the wars to end, while winning other concessions in education/infrastructure.
 
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kingblaze84;2979189 said:
Yep, and all those Iraqis overseas have the same feelings you have. They want the Americans to get out and stop killing their civilians for oil.

I hope your friends dont run into any angry Iraqis this year. And the next 10 years they will likely be there. Good luck to them.

You find me a report not some he say she say shit of us takin oil from iraq..

tru_m.a.c;2979795 said:
again...I'm not in the military sector, so i can't deem what is and what isn't necessary. I won't justify a baseless propandized war as the Iraq war. And I won't justify presidents being pussies and subverting congressional power by sending in marines/special forces instead of declaring a war.

But I will borrow Ron Pauls idea and push for the division of military spending into separate categories. Some military endeavors are nothing more than jobs bills, and if thats the case, fine but lets define them as such (credit to Bill Maher).



We can't make ending the wars our top priority. That is going to take a lot of time. but we can push for the wars to end, while winning other concessions in education/infrastructure
.

True that
 
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see the GOP is so racist and evil that they want to stop obama from achieving by not supporting getting america out of this debt

it's deeper than we all think
 
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kingblaze84;2979172 said:
I'm confused, I always thought the war in Iraq was based on a lie? There havent been any weapons of mass destruction found there yet, am I wrong?
almost sounds like the kind of thing that couldn't have been confirmed without the war. huh
 
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thatni99ajahmal;2981331 said:
You find me a report not some he say she say shit of us takin oil from iraq..

True that

How many American oil companies are now in Iraq that werent allowed there when Saddam Hussein was in charge??

You think that's just one big coincidence?? LOL okay suit yourself, either way the war in Iraq was not necessary. There were no wmd found there so therefore the war was based on a lie. Shame on Obama for lying and saying we were gona get out of there asap. And ending the wars should be a priority when most Americans want out of there now.

It's sad Obama doesnt understand Americans want money spent in America now and not in Afghanistan and Iraq. Schools and roads need to be built here, why are we doing it for people who hate us in the Middle East for the most part?
 
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janklow;2983778 said:
almost sounds like the kind of thing that couldn't have been confirmed without the war. huh

The world told America to wait until the UN inspectors finished searching before we go into war. The United Nations were talking to people on the ground in Iraq and were searching many places. Saddam did act shady at times, true, but MANY people all over the world act shady. Kim Jung 3rd and Mugabe are examples. Yet they havent been attacked LOL, I guess they dont have enough oil to steal.

Iraq was a disaster and I wont give any man a pass for continuing it, just as GW loved to. You voted for Bush twice didnt u?
 
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kingblaze84;2984929 said:
You think that's just one big coincidence?? LOL okay suit yourself, either way the war in Iraq was not necessary. There were no wmd found there so therefore the war was based on a lie. Shame on Obama for lying and saying we were gona get out of there asap. And ending the wars should be a priority when most Americans want out of there now.

that is not feasible
 
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kingblaze84;2984938 said:
The world told America to wait until the UN inspectors finished searching before we go into war. The United Nations were talking to people on the ground in Iraq and were searching many places. Saddam did act shady at times, true, but MANY people all over the world act shady. Kim Jung 3rd and Mugabe are examples. Yet they havent been attacked LOL, I guess they dont have enough oil to steal.

Iraq was a disaster and I wont give any man a pass for continuing it, just as GW loved to. You voted for Bush twice didnt u?

You said it all my dude, but what niggas dont know that it wasnt just about the oil. They went in there and took all the antiquities
from the iraqi national museum. This nigga saddamn had cyclinder seals and artifacts from ancient mesopotamia, the powers that be HAD to get them. I believe to hide the truth or to use them for something. And just after the riots started in Egypt they had theyre antiquities looted. Coincidence?? I believe the uprising in Egypt was the work of provocateurs, most likely CIA or the moussaud(sp?)

US accused of plans to loot Iraqi antiques
By Liam McDougall, Arts Correspondent

06/04/03
FEARS that Iraq's heritage will face widespread looting at the end of the Gulf war have been heightened after a group of wealthy art dealers secured a high-level meeting with the US administration.
It has emerged that a coalition of antiquities collectors and arts lawyers, calling itself the American Council for Cultural Policy (ACCP), met with US defence and state department officials prior to the start of military action to offer its assistance in preserving the country's invaluable archaeological collections.
The group is known to consist of a number of influential dealers who favour a relaxation of Iraq's tight restrictions on the ownership and export of antiquities. Its treasurer, William Pearlstein, has described Iraq's laws as 'retentionist' and has said he would support a post-war government that would make it easier to have antiquities dispersed to the US.
Before the Gulf war, a main strand of the ACCP's campaigning has been to persuade its government to revise the Cultural Property Implementation Act in order to minimise efforts by foreign nations to block the import into the US of objects, particularly antiques.
News of the group's meeting with the government has alarmed scientists and archaeologists who fear the ACCP is working to a hidden agenda that will see the US authorities ease restrictions on the movement of Iraqi artefacts after a coalition victory in Iraq.
Professor Lord Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, leading Cambridge archaeologist and director of the McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, said: 'Iraqi antiquities legislation protects Iraq. The last thing one needs is some group of dealer-connected Americans interfering. Any change to those laws would be absolutely monstrous. '
A wave of protest has also come from the Archaeological Institute of America (AIA), which says any weakening of Iraq's strict antiquities laws would be 'disastrous'. President Patty Gerstenblith said: 'The ACCP's agenda is to encourage the collecting of antiquities through weakening the laws of archaeologically-rich nations and eliminate national ownership of antiquities to allow for easier export. '
The ACCP has caused deep unease among archaeologists since its creation in 2001. Among its main members are collectors and lawyers with chequered histories in collecting valuable artefacts, including alleged exhibitions of Nazi loot.
They denied accusations of attempting to change Iraq's treatment of archaeological objects. Instead, they said at the January meeting they offered 'post-war technical and financial assistance', and 'conservation support'.

"King Tutankhamen Artifacts Looted From Egyptian Museum Found"
At a press conference on Tuesday, recently re-appointed Egyptian antiquities minister Zahi Hawass showed looted artifacts which had been recovered. The objects were among those stolen from the Egyptian Museum in Cairo during the protests in Tahrir Square on January 28. Many of the several dozen objects which were taken have since been recovered, but 33 remain missing from the museum.

The Telegraph quoted Zahi Hawass as stating,

We brought back four pieces first, then 12 pieces after that and five pieces after that and four now. What we are missing now are only 33 objects, are mainly from the late period and I'm very happy to announce that this came to us this morning are very beautiful artefacts from the collection of Tutankhamen.

The recovered artifacts, reportedly found in an underground metro station, include a gold statue of King Tutankhamen. The object, which was broken off of a larger statue, is slightly damaged with small pieces of the crown and legs missing from the figure, which will be reunited and restored.

The other objects include Tutankamen’s fan, part of which was broken; a gilded bronze and wooden trumpet belonging to the boy king; and a shabti figure of Tutankhamen's great-grandparents Yuya and Tjuya. Both the trumpet and the shabti were returned in good condition and will be returned to display immediately.

Although the Egyptian Museum has recovered many of the dozens of objects stolen from them in January, Hawass told El Mundo that around 1,000 artifacts looted from around the country remain missing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/king-tutankhamen-artifact_n_848422.html
 
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kingblaze84;2984929 said:
How many American oil companies are now in Iraq that werent allowed there when Saddam Hussein was in charge??

You think that's just one big coincidence?? LOL okay suit yourself, either way the war in Iraq was not necessary. There were no wmd found there so therefore the war was based on a lie. Shame on Obama for lying and saying we were gona get out of there asap. And ending the wars should be a priority when most Americans want out of there now.

It's sad Obama doesnt understand Americans want money spent in America now and not in Afghanistan and Iraq. Schools and roads need to be built here, why are we doing it for people who hate us in the Middle East for the most part?

You tell me a war that was fought and someone didnt take anything??

Dont worry i will wait..

What you dont understand about war is everyone would love to come home but now we have a bigger problem of Iran trying to move into Iraq at this moment but you dont understand war or tactics so disregard
 
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new developments in the Debt talks:

Gang of Six back from the brink

By: Manu Raju

July 19, 2011 10:17 AM EDT

The once moribund Senate “Gang of Six” gained new life Tuesday after Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn unexpectedly rejoined the group and President Barack Obama praised a new effort to cut the debt by as much as $3.7 trillion over the next decade.

Speaking at the White House Tuesday afternoon, Obama gave the Gang of Six a big boost, saying its proposals were “roughly” in line with his negotiations during the stalled debt-ceiling talks. But he said there would need to be broader buy-in to the proposal and he said Congress needed to have “fail-safe” plan, being drafted by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, to avert a default.

“I think we’re now seeing a potential for a bipartisan consensus,” Obama told reporters.

Other top senators are also getting behind the plan, including Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), the No. 3 Senate Republican, who told a group of senators Tuesday he would back the Gang of Six’s proposal, sources say. The fast-moving developments mean that elements of the proposal could influence the stalled talks to raise the debt-limit before the Aug. 2 deadline.

The Republican led House, which is on the verge of voting on the conservative “Cut, Cap and Balance” plan that has little chance of passing the Senate, remains a tough sell on the Gang of Six.

The House Republican leadership staff is reviewing the Gang of Six proposal, but has several concerns, according to aides.

They are unclear how the plan gets to $3.7 trillion in savings, and want to see a more detailed plan, the aides say. From what they’ve seen of the plan, they Medicare and Medicaid proposals need to go further. And they’re already branding the plan as having tax increases.

According to a copy of a summary of the Gang of Six plan, obtained by POLITICO, the group would impose a two-step legislative process that would make $500 billion worth of cuts immediately followed by a second bill to create a “fast-track process” that would propose a comprehensive bill aimed at dramatically restructuring tax and spending programs. The plan calls for changes to Social Security to move on a separate track, and establishes an elaborate procedure for considering the measures on the floor.

The $500 billion in cuts would come from a range of sources, including shifting to a new consumer price index to make cost-of-living adjustments to Social Security. The plan would impose statutory spending caps through 2015, freeze congressional pay and sell unused federal property.

To enact a comprehensive deficit plan, the group calls for congressional committees to report legislation within six months that would “deliver real deficit savings in entitlement programs over 10 years,” the plan says.

It calls on the Finance Committee to permanently reform or replace Medicare’s Sustainable Growth Rate - an outdated formula aimed at determining the amount to reimburse doctors for treating Medicare patients - by $298 billion.

The Finance Committee would be instructed to deliver “real deficit savings” through simplifying the tax code and raise as much as $1 trillion. It would do this by establishing three tax brackets with rates of 8-12 percent, 14-22 percent and 23-29 percent. It would permanently repeal the $1.7 trillion Alternative Minimum Tax. And it calls for establishing a single corporate tax rate, between 23 percent and 29 percent, and to move to a competitive territorial tax system.

Overall, the group claims it would result in a $1.5 trillion net tax decrease.

The group punts many of the specifics to other committees, which would be asked to find savings in discretionary and mandatory spending. This includes: $80 billion out of Armed Services; $70 billion out of Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; $65 billion out of Homeland Security and Government Affairs; $11 billion out of Agriculture; $11 billion out of Commerce; $6 billion out of Energy and Natural Resources. The Judiciary Committee would be asked to find savings through medical malpractice reform.

The group spent ample time proposing ways to expedite the legislative process should there be a stalemate in committee.

If any committee cannot propose cuts, it would would impose “across-the-board” cuts to programs under the panel’s jurisdiction. It would exempt programs aimed at low-income communities.

Moreover, the group proposed a mechanism to allow other senators to move forward with deficit-cutting proposals if a Senate committee stalled on its task. It would allow five senators from each party to push a resolution laying out how they would achieve those cuts, and if that won 60 votes on the floor, those proposals would be added to the comprehensive bill.

To avoid gridlock, floor amendments that upset the deficit-reduction goals would be ruled out of order. Any bill that could receive 60 votes would be held at the desk until the Senate considers the separate Social Security bill.

Once a comprehensive deficit plan has the votes, a measure aimed at ensuring 75-years of solvency of Social Security would head to the floor. The Finance Committee would be required to recommend the Social Security changes.

Senators in the Gang of Six - Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Mark Warner (D-Va.), Mike Crapo (R-Idaho) and Coburn - discussed the proposal with 43 senators Tuesday morning on the first floor of the Senate, after more than six months of struggling to broker a deal.

Coburn left the group in May but suddenly rejoined after the group added $115 billion in additional health care cuts and included the provision allowing senators to circumvent the stalled committees.

“I’m back,” Coburn told the big group Tuesday, prompting a round of applause.

The devil, of course, will be in the details. The group will have to write the plan into legislation and try to win over a bipartisan majority in the House and a supermajority in the Senate, not an easy task with two weeks before the U.S is at risk of defaulting on its loans. The group has modeled its approach after the president’s deficit reduction commission that proposed a report last December recommending a sweeping array of cuts worth $4 trillion.

As such, Conrad – the Budget Committee chairman – said he’s open to moving the plan either as part of the 2012 budget resolution, with so-called reconciliation instructions that would prevent subsequent legislation from being filibustered in the Senate. Or it could move as stand-alone legislation.

None of that could be accomplished before Aug. 2. But in the wake of a toughening budget environment, senators on both sides were eager to see a compromise potentially break intractable budget politics.

Conrad said there was a “remarkably enthusiastic reaction” in the room of 43 senators.

“There are many of us who believe deeply, how can you extend the debt limit and not deal with the debt,” Conrad said. “I see there are many groups that have that same feeling. Maybe there is a chance to get something critically important done for the country here.

“I thought it was a thrilling meeting,” said Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.). “I think what happened what began to happen is that the Gang of Six began to turn into a bipartisan majority of senators. Who want to solve a national problem and not play partisan politics. It got very emotional.”

“I think within 24 hours, you will see a significant number of senators publicly support this,” said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.).

Even GOP leaders were open to it.

“If you had a net tax cut, presumably it would be consistent with the pledge” [not to raise taxes], said Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.), No. 4 in leadership.

“I think you’ll see a fair amount of enthusiasm the possibility that this could be integrated and a part of a debt-ceiling fix, with substantial cuts and with a pathway to real reform,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), the Senate GOP’s campaign chief. “I think everybody is going to realize nobody is going to get 100 percent of everything they want.”

Scott Wong and Jake Sherman contributed to this report.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=1A5B7DC1-3E47-4249-832E-D25C243DD9B2

© 2011 POLITICO LLC

FD HIDDEN DIV
 
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tru_m.a.c;2985772 said:
that is not feasible

Why the flying fuck not??!! We're about to cut social security and medicare, but we're gonna continue spending money on bombs and bullets? You think that's bringing us peace? It's only creating more enemies. When we get tough on Israel and leave the Middle East ALONE, than we'll have less people all around the world trying to murk us all the time.

Acting like George W Bush the 3rd is not bringing peace to America. Yes, it IS feasible to bring our troops home now. We did it when we realized Vietnam was lost, and America turned out fine.
 
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thatni99ajahmal;2986142 said:
You tell me a war that was fought and someone didnt take anything??

Dont worry i will wait..

What you dont understand about war is everyone would love to come home but now we have a bigger problem of Iran trying to move into Iraq at this moment but you dont understand war or tactics so disregard

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dick Cheney, nigga is that you typing behind there???!!! Why the fuck do you care about what Iran does in its own backyard??? Playing the world's policeman is played out nigga!!!!

We wouldnt have to worry about Iran so much if we stopped butting our fucking busy body noses up in everyone's ass. Think for yourself and stop listening to Donald Rumsfeld.

How many times did you vote for Bush?
 
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INB4 "cut, cap, and balance" is killed.

It's like watching a baby leatherback sea turtle hatch and crawl out of the sand towards the ocean, only to notice that there are numerous birds and crabs waiting to eat it.
 
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kingblaze84;2989004 said:
Why the flying fuck not??!! We're about to cut social security and medicare, but we're gonna continue spending money on bombs and bullets? You think that's bringing us peace? It's only creating more enemies. When we get tough on Israel and leave the Middle East ALONE, than we'll have less people all around the world trying to murk us all the time.

Acting like George W Bush the 3rd is not bringing peace to America. Yes, it IS feasible to bring our troops home now. We did it when we realized Vietnam was lost, and America turned out fine.

Before I answer your question, I need you to back up your assertion that it is feasible to bring troops home now. How is this a factual argument and not one based on liberally idealistic perception.

kingblaze84;2989039 said:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dick Cheney, nigga is that you typing behind there???!!! Why the fuck do you care about what Iran does in its own backyard??? Playing the world's policeman is played out nigga!!!!
We wouldnt have to worry about Iran so much if we stopped butting our fucking busy body noses up in everyone's ass. Think for yourself and stop listening to Donald Rumsfeld.

How many times did you vote for Bush?

I'd expect this train of thought from a back road conservative.
 
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fiat_money;2989118 said:
INB4 "cut, cap, and balance" is killed.

It's like watching a baby leatherback sea turtle hatch and crawl out of the sand towards the ocean, only to notice that there are numerous birds and crabs waiting to eat it.

lol I seriously wish I could have a conversation with these freshman republicans
 
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