Can Goku & Vegeta take out the whole Marvel universe

[BoldChild]

fam, you dont know whom Im talking about from the Z uni, so how can you even compare? Or claim nobody in the z verse is fucking with top tier marvel?

its biasssss, thats right Im calling you out monk, youre a Marvel fanboy lol.

and for the record, Goku became the super saiyan god(lol) but changed back to regular Goku during the fight and peaked, Vegeta surpassed Goku in the flick. Overal the movie didnt make much sense and isnt worth watching lol

both Goku and Vegeta can destroy planets like its nothing as other posters have stated but for some reason you refuse to believe that shit. Acting like the cell saga never happened and shit.

If it makes you feel good to call me a Marvel fanboy, then do you. It's not true because as I've said, I like DBZ just like I like Marvel. I'm just able to be objective.

You really just don't seem to comprehend the power gap between DBZ characters and top tier Marvel characters. Ya'll keep going on and on about a DBZ character accidentally destroying a few planets. I already told you that Surfer has destroyed a black hole in the past. Let's put that in perspective. Our sun is hundreds of thousands of times more massive than the earth. Black holes can be hundreds of thousands of times more massive than the sun. Are you starting to understand the difference in power here? I don't know what else to say. Surfer is far superior to the Z characters in pretty much every conceivable way other than raw fighting ability.

It was actually explained in the manga why buu wasn't going as far as to destroy worlds before his kid buu transformation, there was no benefit in him destroying the world. When he was fat buu, he was focused on having fun, and obeying babidi. After that he was focused on fighting and absorbing z fighters. Kid buu was actually weaker than this version of Buu,(the one who absorbed gohan and co) the reason kid buu was so dangerous was because he gave no fucks about destroying the world, unlike the previous buus.

You're talking about why he didn't just go around destroying planets for shits and giggles. I was just pointing out that the bad guys had no reason to hold back. If they accidentally destroyed the world it didn't matter because they could survive space and didn't give a shit about the human race. Yet that never happened.

They did though, they were holding back out of their own self interest, because they were entertaining themselves, or there was something they had to obtain on Earth, as soon as they got pissed off, and weren't having fun anymore, they attempted to blow up the Earth.

Vegeta - Attempted to deal a crippling blow to the Earth after he got that work from Goku. (though obviously at this point there was no way Vegeta would accidentally blow the earth up, he wasn't strong enough)

Androids - Destroying the Earth wouldn't have been a huge plus for them, unless they had some desire to drift in space.

Cell - Attempted to obliterate the Earth after he got that work from Gohan, also stated he gathered more than enough ki to do it. But prior to that he had to absorb the Androids to reach full power, and then wanted to test his powers on the Saiyans, as soon as he found out that wasn't working out, he tried to blow up the Earth.

Buu - the Earth was his playground as Fat Buu, when he got rid of his good side he began adsorbing others for power, and finally when he reverberated back to his original self, he immediately destroyed the Earth.

 

[BoldChild]

I don't really consider Bills to be apart of the Z-Verse seeing as he made one appearance, in a movie at that. I didn't even plan on bringing up that movie until you started to.

I never brought up the battle of the gods movie, that was someone else.

Unless they've shown they can destroy planets, then you don't say they can. It would be like giving everyone instant transmission because Goku can do it. It's like giving everyone the Spirit Bomb because base Goku can do it.

Argue feats, not powerscaling.

Not it's not, we know for a fact instant transmission is a skill Goku learned from an Alien race, and it's not something you just learn out of the blue, it has never been associated with his power level, and there have been no mentions of him teaching it to anyone.

Speed, power, and Ki(Ki is power level) on the other hand, we know for sure that those or associated with Power level, and typically, in ~95% all cases, if someone has a bigger power level than you, it means they are greater at all three.

One of the exceptions being SS 1.5 that Trunks and Vegeta were using when they were fighting agaisnt cell.

A persons ability to form energy blast is directly related to their level of Ki, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if Frieza is capable of forming a Ki blast strong enough to destroy a planet, someone with a higher power level (Ki) than his canform a more powerful Ki blast than him, with a lot more ease.

Are you implying that there is no difference between a Death Ball, Kamehameha, and Final Flash?

I don't know, you would have to ask Toriyama that, he never gave much thought into ki techniques, most are pretty generic aside from things like Destructo Disk.

Side note: Cell was going to destroy the Earth with KameHameHa, and Vegeta was going to attempt with Galick gun

 

[The Lonious Monk]

They did though, they were holding back out of their own self interest, because they were entertaining themselves, or there was something they had to obtain on Earth, as soon as they got pissed off, and weren't having fun anymore, they attempted to blow up the Earth.

Vegeta - Attempted to deal a crippling blow to the Earth after he got that work from Goku. (though obviously at this point there was no way Vegeta would accidentally blow the earth up, he wasn't strong enough)

Androids - Destroying the Earth wouldn't have been a huge plus for them, unless they had some desire to drift in space.

Cell - Attempted to obliterate the Earth after he got that work from Gohan, also stated he gathered more than enough ki to do it. But prior to that he had to absorb the Androids to reach full power, and then wanted to test his powers on the Saiyans, as soon as he found out that wasn't working out, he tried to blow up the Earth.

Buu - the Earth was his playground as Fat Buu, when he got rid of his good side he began adsorbing others for power, and finally when he reverberated back to his original self, he immediately destroyed the Earth.

Cell is the perfect example. When he decided he wanted to blow up the Earth, he didn't stop holding back and start fighting without regard to the planet. He initiated an attack specifically meant to blow up the planet. The whole reason he even went in that direction is because he had already been fighting at his full power and could not beat Gohan. So again, we have a DBZ character at his limits fighting with everything he's got and the world is not in peril until he specifically tries to destroy it. And when he tries to destroy it, is it just a casual attack or by letting flow free? No, he has to resort to a suicide attack. If he was so powerful that simply fighting without considering the safety of the planet would be enough to destroy the planet, why would he have to blow himself up to destroy the planet?

 

[Sour-Cream]

As long as y'all agree, 2 niggas are not taking on the whole marvel universe, that's fucking stupid.

 

[BoldChild]

They did though, they were holding back out of their own self interest, because they were entertaining themselves, or there was something they had to obtain on Earth, as soon as they got pissed off, and weren't having fun anymore, they attempted to blow up the Earth.

Vegeta - Attempted to deal a crippling blow to the Earth after he got that work from Goku. (though obviously at this point there was no way Vegeta would accidentally blow the earth up, he wasn't strong enough)

Androids - Destroying the Earth wouldn't have been a huge plus for them, unless they had some desire to drift in space.

Cell - Attempted to obliterate the Earth after he got that work from Gohan, also stated he gathered more than enough ki to do it. But prior to that he had to absorb the Androids to reach full power, and then wanted to test his powers on the Saiyans, as soon as he found out that wasn't working out, he tried to blow up the Earth.

Buu - the Earth was his playground as Fat Buu, when he got rid of his good side he began adsorbing others for power, and finally when he reverberated back to his original self, he immediately destroyed the Earth.

Cell is the perfect example. When he decided he wanted to blow up the Earth, he didn't stop holding back and start fighting without regard to the planet. He initiated an attack specifically meant to blow up the planet. The whole reason he even went in that direction is because he had already been fighting at his full power and could not beat Gohan. So again, we have a DBZ character at his limits fighting with everything he's got and the world is not in peril until he specifically tries to destroy it. And when he tries to destroy it, is it just a casual attack or by letting flow free? No, he has to resort to a suicide attack. If he was so powerful that simply fighting without considering the safety of the planet would be enough to destroy the planet, why would he have to blow himself up to destroy the planet?

If he used a casual attack, someone would have blocked it, that's why he needed to gather all of that energy, plus the author had to put on a big finale for the end of the saga. Logically, if Cell really wanted to destroy Earth, and kill all of them, he could have just flown away, and did it from outer space, but if he did something like that, there would be no story. Most of Cells actions were all for the sake of moving the plot along, to the point that some of them were not logical.

And Cell blowing himself up isn't really an issue, since all he needs is a cell to regenerate himself, and he had to do an attack that could not be stopped, like Buu's first attack was stopped.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Dude it's over. When your answer to an in story debate is an out of story response, you've reached your limit. You have no proof that Goku and Vegeta have that level of power. It's as simple as that.

 

[Melanin_Enriched]

Ok, now that we got the preliminary match out the way lets get to the main contender. How fucked is the Marvel universe is against Madara. Also, I'm not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. I'm talking about Sage of the Six Paths Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikodou abilities and being capable of both Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi genjutsu), with the third rinnegan eye and 4 limbo shadows, equipped with his Gunbai, a perfect Susano'o, control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju's DNA implanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei genkai and can perform yin yang release ninjutsu while being an expert in kenjutsu and taijutsu.

 

[nujerz84]

I provide this thread as my reason for choosing DBZ Fan Boys as the worst in comics

 

[DarkRaiden]

Ok, now that we got the preliminary match out the way lets get to the main contender. How fucked is the Marvel universe is against Madara. Also, I'm not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. I'm talking about Sage of the Six Paths Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikodou abilities and being capable of both Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi genjutsu), with the third rinnegan eye and 4 limbo shadows, equipped with his Gunbai, a perfect Susano'o, control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju's DNA implanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei genkai and can perform yin yang release ninjutsu while being an expert in kenjutsu and taijutsu.

Let me stop you there. He's shown none of that. And if you must know.....Iron Man would stomp Madara into the ground without trying. As well as the rest of the Naruto Universe.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Ummm, you must be smoking crack. There is absolutely no way Ironman beats Madara unless you make the argument that genjutsu doesn't exist in the Marvel universe. Madara hasn't shown the ability to use Tsukuyomi, but he has demonstrated genjutsu strong enough to completely paralyze a Kage. Seriously, if you think Ironman can beat Madara, you haven't been paying attention to Naruto for the past 20 or so chapters.

 

[DarkRaiden]

Ummm, you must be smoking crack. There is absolutely no way Ironman beats Madara unless you make the argument that genjutsu doesn't exist in the Marvel universe. Madara hasn't shown the ability to use Tsukuyomi, but he has demonstrated genjutsu strong enough to completely paralyze a Kage. Seriously, if you think Ironman can beat Madara, you haven't been paying attention to Naruto for the past 20 or so chapters.

Not only has Madara only used genjutsu once ever in all of his fights, not only has Madara NOT used any sharignan jutsu with his new Rinnegan, not only does A have literally 0 feats to suggest he's resistant to genjutsu, but Iron Man has psychic dampeners and sensors on the suit that Madara doesn't know about and can't trick.

Madara doesn't even do genjutsu all that much in character, not sure why THAT's what you brought up.

And Madara has no answer for Iron Man's nukes and heat attacks and flying speed, nor can he get past his forcefields.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

1) Let's not act like Madara has been around since the beginning of the series. He's only been around for this last portion of the story, and they've been piling powers and abilities on to him the whole time. So it's completely understandable that we haven't seen him use the genjutsu more than once. That doesn't change the fact that he can and will use it.

2) Madara has spent half his time in the manga inside of Susanoo while he had the other Rinnegan. Him getting a new Rinnegan shouldn't change his ability to do that.

3) A is a Kage. Resisting and breaking genjutsu is one of the basics taught to every ninja in the Narutoverse. He may not have special skill in resisting genjutsu, but what little he has is still a hell of a lot more than Iron Man has.

4) Genjutsu isn't standard Western Comics style mind control. It's a hybrid of illusion casting and physical manipulation of the brain. There is nothing to suggest Iron Man's measures will have any effect let alone nullify the attacks.

5) How do you know what Madara does in character? We've seen him use genjutsu, period. No one is suggesting he's an Itachi level genjutsu user, but he's clearly competent with it and will use it when it's his best option.

6) Madara has attacks that destroyed mountains and leveled wide swaths of land, I think he can get past Iron Man's shields just fine. And Naruto is faster than Iron Man, yet Madara can hit him just fine. And if we're talking about current Madara, he can only be hurt by someone using Senjutsu or sustained high level Taijutsu, neither of which can be performed by Iron Man.

 

[nujerz84]

1) Let's not act like Madara has been around since the beginning of the series. He's only been around for this last portion of the story, and they've been piling powers and abilities on to him the whole time. So it's completely understandable that we haven't seen him use the genjutsu more than once. That doesn't change the fact that he can and will use it.

2) Madara has spent half his time in the manga inside of Susanoo while he had the other Rinnegan. Him getting a new Rinnegan shouldn't change his ability to do that.

3) A is a Kage. Resisting and breaking genjutsu is one of the basics taught to every ninja in the Narutoverse. He may not have special skill in resisting genjutsu, but what little he has is still a hell of a lot more than Iron Man has.

4) Genjutsu isn't standard Western Comics style mind control. It's a hybrid of illusion casting and physical manipulation of the brain. There is nothing to suggest Iron Man's measures will have any effect let alone nullify the attacks.

5) How do you know what Madara does in character? We've seen him use genjutsu, period. No one is suggesting he's an Itachi level genjutsu user, but he's clearly competent with it and will use it when it's his best option.

6) Madara has attacks that destroyed mountains and leveled wide swaths of land, I think he can get past Iron Man's shields just fine. And Naruto is faster than Iron Man, yet Madara can hit him just fine. And if we're talking about current Madara, he can only be hurt by someone using Senjutsu or sustained high level Taijutsu, neither of which can be performed by Iron Man.

No clue wtf you talking about but will just all that babble about Madara is excactly why DBZ has always been fucking wack to me. Ultra corny nerd shit right there.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I don't really understand the comparison to DBZ since it doesn't have nearly as much shit going on as Naruto.

And all that "babble" is just terminology from the manga. If you read the manga you know what it is. If you don't, you don't. I fail to see actually understanding what you read is ultra corny nerd shit. Niggas really thinks a cat running around dressed up like a bat is cool, but ninjas with special powers is nerd shit. Get the fuck out of here. lol

 

[nujerz84]

The shit you typed was straight corny nerd shit. Manga/Anime has and will always be wack to me. Nigga please Get the fuck out here that with a character who looks like Asian Twilight Zone Emo Faggot.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Again, you reppin a dude that runs around dressed like a bat. It's all the same shit, but if it makes you feel better to call one nerd shit and act like the other is cool, go for it.

 

[nujerz84]

You the one who bought appearances, I simply stated the breakdown of the character abilities is corny nerd fan boy shit.

And Since you went the appearance route

One looks like a cross between A boyband Reject meets emo Twilight Character

The other doesnt not.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

So, explaining a character's abilities is nerd shit? You know you can do the same shit with Western Comics too. The only difference between what I did up there and going through Superman's laundry list of powers is the foreign names.

Also, you're right to some extent about the overuse of the "girly man" image. I don't really like that aspect of anime either. However, outside of his long hair, how Madara doesn't really even fit that image. He doesn't look much different than how Bruce Wayne is portrayed outside of the suit. He's not one of the characters that is given that feminine look. As for your pics...C'mon Son, you really going to use a stylized image that is nothing at all like Batman's typical appearance just to make a point. If you got to resort to tactics like that, the point you're making is weak to begin with.

At the end of the day, everyone's got their tastes. You don't like anime, it's all good. Just know that comics are nerd shit just like anime.

 

[nujerz84]

So, explaining a character's abilities is nerd shit? You know you can do the same shit with Western Comics too. The only difference between what I did up there and going through Superman's laundry list of powers is the foreign names.

Also, you're right to some extent about the overuse of the "girly man" image. I don't really like that aspect of anime either. However, outside of his long hair, how Madara doesn't really even fit that image. He doesn't look much different than how Bruce Wayne is portrayed outside of the suit. He's not one of the characters that is given that feminine look. As for your pics...C'mon Son, you really going to use a stylized image that is nothing at all like Batman's typical appearance just to make a point. If you got to resort to tactics like that, the point you're making is weak to begin with.

At the end of the day, everyone's got their tastes. You don't like anime, it's all good. Just know that comics are nerd shit just like anime.

You can but then Again I dont collect or is into comics like that and I prefer the street level heroes as opposed to higher powered beings. Again you brought up appearances not I, all these boy-band looking chinks all look alike. Animes are poorly drawn (Word to Goku looking like Ash From Pokeman on steroids) and is horribly voice acted.

Batman typical appearance (aside from the gay 60's era) is doper than majority of Anime Characters.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

You keep on saying I brought up appearance. I didn't. I wasn't critiquing Batman's looks like you are with these characters. I was talking about the concept of the character. Madara is a normal looking guy (with absurdly long hair) that wore traditional samurai style armor. Nothing crazy or nerdy about that. Batman is a billionaire playboy that literally puts on a batsuit and runs around at night. It's all about perspective. Based on those descriptions, Batman sounds way nerdier.

Anyway, if you don't like the artistic style, that's fine. Nothing wrong with that. Like I said, I don't particularly care for the overuse of the pretty boy image or making all your protagonists teeny boppers or younger either. It's just not enough to stop it from being entertaining IMO. Although, I would say you're generalizing a little too much. You're really only describing Shonen anime. There is a lot of anime that doesn't fit what you're saying, Berserk for example, is still bonafide anime but it's pretty much the opposite of everything you seem to hate about anime.