why was jay-z such a late bloomer?

[KeepinItHundred]

He told you Bee High hated the fact he put rap to the back. I don't think anyone can honestly answer this question besides Jay or someone that was close to him during his pre-Reasonable Doubt days. I do know once he got his foot in the door he didn't let up. I don't think he did too bad for a dude that couldn't make it as some of you say. You should ask why all his peers aren't in his position since they started so young.

nobody is denying jay-z's buisness skills. but this is strictly a hip hop question. jay's finanncial status can't save him here.

and yes jay didn't let up, he was great at taking styles that are popular and running with them to stay relevant.

 

[Me1971]

Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

Case & Point:

The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

Don't most rappers follow trends to stay relevant? Was Jay going out his way to do tracks with Akon, T-Pain, Lil Mo or whoever when it was the trendy thing to do? Look at Em, he raps on more southern sounding beats now and he did a collab with Rhianna which seems to be the industry standard, isn't he hoping on a trend? You ever notice how Nas was following the flashy trend from 96-2001, a trend that people swore Jay monopolized. Ya'll not giving him enough credit for his risk taking, you guys are overlooking things out of biasdness. People don't remember that Jay put out a classic album with two relatively unknown producers doing a majority of the production (Kanye and Just Blaze), those dudes definitely weren't indemand at the time (they weren't even signed). The Blueprint sound changed the sound of hip hop for a while because then other groups started putting they're spin on the soulful sound; who came after them, the Diplomats with the Heatmakers, Terror Squad with the early Cool N Dre Production ect ect. Jay even had the Hitmen produce a large majority of the American Gangster album, what trend was he following with that? Was Roc Boy's a trendy record? Was Kingdom Come a trendy album? The dude was like the first rapper to do songs with Chris Martin. There wasn't even a mainstream hip hop realease that year (2007) that sounded like American gangster.....and it was succesful. He featured UGK on Big Pimping, that wasn't trendy (for the time). What trend was he hoping on with Can I Get A with putting Amil and unknown Ja Rule on the track? or Nigga What Nigga Who when he featured Jaz-O on the track?

 

[CirocObama]

50 cent was 27 when get rich or die tryin dropped

The game was 26 when the documentary dropped

Jay electronic is 34 and his album hasnt dropped

J cole is 26 and his album hasnt dropped

Kanye west was 26 when college dropout dropped

em was 26 when slim shady lp dropped

big pun was 27 when capitol punishment dropped

All were older or the exact same age as jigga when rd dropped

Game had just turned 25 when Documentary dropped (November 1979 is his birthday according to Wiki, and Documentary dropped January 2005)

Also how can you not agree with what JokerzWyld said? Instead of bringing up other artists? SMH.

 

[Me1971]

And we could argue all day about these artist releasing Classic albums and material as well. All popular? Sure!. Classic? Standing the test of time? Ground breaking? I don't think so.

You really don't think Puns first album, Get Rich or Die Trying, College Dropout, The Documentary, Slim Shady LP are up for discussion as classic albums? Get Rich or Die Trying wasn't ground breaking? Where you in the U.S. in 2003 when that album dropped? College Dropout wasn't ground breaking?

 

[Kwan Dai]

Don't most rappers follow trends to stay relevant? Was Jay going out his way to do tracks with Akon, T-Pain, Lil Mo or whoever when it was the trendy thing to do? Look at Em, he raps on more southern sounding beats now and he did a collab with Rhianna which seems to be the industry standard, isn't he hoping on a trend? You ever notice how Nas was following the flashy trend from 96-2001, a trend that people swore Jay monopolized. Ya'll not giving him enough credit for his risk taking, you guys are overlooking things out of biasdness. People don't remember that Jay put out a classic album with two relatively unknown producers doing a majority of the production (Kanye and Just Blaze), those dudes definitely weren't indemand at the time (they weren't even signed). The Blueprint sound changed the sound of hip hop for a while because then other groups started putting they're spin on the soulful sound; who came after them, the Diplomats with the Heatmakers, Terror Squad with the early Cool N Dre Production ect ect. Jay even had the Hitmen produce a large majority of the American Gangster album, what trend was he following with that? There wasn't even a mainstream hip hop realease that year (2007) that sounded like American gangster.....and it was succesful. He featured UGK on Big Pimping, that wasn't trendy (for the time). What trend was he hoping on with Can I Get A with putting Amil and unknown Ja Rule on the track? or Nigga What Nigga Who when he featured Jaz-O on the track?

You tell us if, Jays peers such as Nas, G-Rap, Kane, Tupac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, Ice Cube, Jaz O, Rakim etc etc. were following trends?

In regards to your crediting Kanye, and Just Blaze with this soulful sound I simply point you to RZA who was doing this years before Kanye and Just Blaze. Rza didn't name names but he did mention on the double CD producers who were stealing his sound.

 

[Kwan Dai]

You really don't think Puns first album, Get Rich or Die Trying, College Dropout, The Documentary, Slim Shady LP are up for discussion as classic albums? Get Rich or Die Trying wasn't ground breaking? Where you in the U.S. in 2003 when that album dropped? College Dropout wasn't ground breaking?

What I think doesn't matter. What I said, was we could argue if, these albums are indeed classic. And No I do not think GRDT, CD were ground breaking. I am willing to hear why you think they are.

 

[Me1971]

You tell us if, Jays peers such as Nas, G-Rap, Kane, Tupac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, Ice Cube, Jaz O, Rakim etc etc. were following trends?

In regards to your crediting Kanye, and Just Blaze with this soulful sound I simply point you to RZA who was doing this years before Kanye and Just Blaze. Rza didn't name names but he did mention on the double CD producers who were stealing his sound.

Im well aware of the back-lash Kanye recieved from Rza...and Pete Rock at the time. Yeah Rza sampled soul loops (every once in a while) like on Wu's first album when he did the Can It All Be So Simple beat but his style was a little different than Kanye's and Just Blaze. Kanye even stated on the end of College Dropout that he "re-surged the soul sampling". A majority of mainstream Hip Hop records had a polished sound to it at the time so it was sort of left field and risky for Jay to do such a soulful album like that when Vol 3 was quite the opposite and Vol 3 was sucessful.

 

look at o.g. juan (chasinbenjamins) and ty ty (Me1971) in here defending jigga ....

niggas popping up with fresh acounts out the blue giving posts like they jigga's right hand and shit ....

 

[Me1971]

What I think doesn't matter. What I said, was we could argue if, these albums are indeed classic. And No I do not think GRDT, CD were ground breaking. I am willing to hear why you think they are.

College Dropout was groundbreaking for it's unique sound, and dude's first single was him rapping his mouth wired shut and it was succesful who else has done that, he also realeased Jesus Walks which was a very risky song especially if you're a Roc-a-fella artist...but the record was successful and it did good in the clubs lol. He was also able to do all of the production without any of the beats sounding the same (but cohesive) and i've never heard that on an album before. The Bearnie Mac Skits, the long outro talking about how he got in the game, Jesus Walks, resurrecting Jamie's career with slow jams, the videos. He won grammy's off his first album....and I believe it was even voted like best hip hop album of the last decade plus it got 5 mics in the source. 50's album is groundbreaking just mostly off the massive success it had and it made alot of artist follow that album formula....plus the music was great.

 

[Me1971]

look at o.g. juan (chasinbenjamins) and ty ty (Me1971) in here defending jigga ....

niggas popping up with fresh acounts out the blue giving posts like they jigga's right hand and shit ....

Im not defending Jay Z, it's just I have a vast knowledge of hip hop in general so I would try to correct the thread starter even if he said something innacurate about Waka Flaka lol. Im not taking sides, I just don't like misinformation.

 

[Kwan Dai]

Word nas aint went plat since 04 while jay z is on his 12th #1 album and wtt will go plat

Jiggas "peers" are way behind in this rap shit

They are either washed,irrelevant or cant sell half of what he sells now

Longevity>>>>>>Dropping a classic at age 20

You have to realize that your criteria is, going to be different then others.i can accept your criteria being sales and mainstream relevance although, I don't agree with it. My criteria is rhyming ability and I certainly do not believe for one minute that Jay has surpassed his peers in this category.

 

[Treize117]

Last i checked its kind of hard to drop an album without a deal...

 

[MorganFreemanKing]

Last i checked its kind of hard to drop an album without a deal...

right.... niggas had to do it themselves then and couldnt even get a deal until after RD dropped

 

[KeepinItHundred]

this thread isn't about relevancy or jay-z's buisness skills or bank account. we know all of that already, thats obvious. but if we go by relevancy and sales, then eminem has always been better than jay-z since 1999. but anyway...

this thread is about why was jay-z such a late bloomer.

 

[KeepinItHundred]

Don't most rappers follow trends to stay relevant? Was Jay going out his way to do tracks with Akon, T-Pain, Lil Mo or whoever when it was the trendy thing to do? Look at Em, he raps on more southern sounding beats now and he did a collab with Rhianna which seems to be the industry standard, isn't he hoping on a trend? You ever notice how Nas was following the flashy trend from 96-2001, a trend that people swore Jay monopolized. Ya'll not giving him enough credit for his risk taking, you guys are overlooking things out of biasdness. People don't remember that Jay put out a classic album with two relatively unknown producers doing a majority of the production (Kanye and Just Blaze), those dudes definitely weren't indemand at the time (they weren't even signed). The Blueprint sound changed the sound of hip hop for a while because then other groups started putting they're spin on the soulful sound; who came after them, the Diplomats with the Heatmakers, Terror Squad with the early Cool N Dre Production ect ect. Jay even had the Hitmen produce a large majority of the American Gangster album, what trend was he following with that? Was Roc Boy's a trendy record? Was Kingdom Come a trendy album? The dude was like the first rapper to do songs with Chris Martin. There wasn't even a mainstream hip hop realease that year (2007) that sounded like American gangster.....and it was succesful. He featured UGK on Big Pimping, that wasn't trendy (for the time). What trend was he hoping on with Can I Get A with putting Amil and unknown Ja Rule on the track? or Nigga What Nigga Who when he featured Jaz-O on the track?

nothing to do with why jay was a late bloomer

 

[thesynthesis]

nas dont bandwagon whatever is hot and jack styles

 

[thesynthesis]

Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

Case & Point:

The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

thread shud have been closed after this post

 

[KeepinItHundred]

If jay is a late bloomer so is em,big pun,50,dmx and kanye west

All have classics,most have multiple #1 albums all have sold mad records and made good music

Seems like u desperately nitpickin even tho your premise got shitted on

And nas made a song wit lil john in 03 which is following who's hot cuz lil john trash music ran the clubs and radio in 2003

my premise never got shitted on. i didn't ask who else came into the game late, or if any other late blooming emcee's dropped classics, you added that. i asked why was jay-z, who is so "godly and great and unfuckwitable" such a late bloomer. why did he need to watch niggas come up and soak styles up? nas did a song with lil john to put the brave hearts on, it;s not on any of his albums, nor did he ever do a crunk song on any of his albums.

 

[KeepinItHundred]

If jay is a late bloomer so is em,big pun,50,dmx and kanye west

All have classics,all (except big pun) have multiple #1 albums all have sold mad records and made good music

Seems like u desperately nitpickin even tho your premise got shitted on

And nas made a song wit lil john in 03 which is following who's hot cuz lil john trash music ran the clubs and radio in 2003

[video=youtube;_R-PyA3reEA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R-PyA3reEA&ob=av2n[/video]

"Trend follower" who has no business doin songs wit lil john

Nas also got kanye production after jigga,made a collab album after jigga,got eminem production after jigga

But yea nobody else do that shit but jay z

Lmao reason posters stay losin

nas did the firm colab album in 1997

i believe kanye west produced poppa was a playa, which was suppossed to come out 1999, not sure.

jay-z got premo and dr.dre production after nas, and so what?

still doesn't explain why jay was a late bloomer.

 

[south4life]

Because Record labels didn't want nothing to do with Jay-Z.

That was the reason why they started Roc-A Fella, nobody was fucking with Jay.

Then when Pac and Big died, he started getting the looks.