Why I raise my children without God.

[Bodhi]

Theism is the assertion that God does exist and atheism is the assertion that God doesn't exist. Now, both assertions in and of themselves don't leave any wiggle room to ask questions. It just is.

Everything is not always black/white and clear cut. You don't just go from freezing water to boiling water. There are many temperatures in between. Oxford English and Webster dictionaries agree with me. Look it up.

Theists have religion and atheists have science.

Again, everything is not always black and white. @Kai_Valya is a scientific minded theist. I am a religious minded atheist.

 

[Big James]

At the very least, the Idea that there is a God would spark debate in young child and expand his/her curiosity and imagination. For that reason alone I would discourage anybody to tell a child that God isn't real even if you, yourself don't believe. That discussion can come later when the child is older and then make his/her decision what they choose to believe.

 

[whar]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

 

[alissowack]

Theism is the assertion that God does exist and atheism is the assertion that God doesn't exist. Now, both assertions in and of themselves don't leave any wiggle room to ask questions. It just is.

Everything is not always black/white and clear cut. You don't just go from freezing water to boiling water. There are many temperatures in between. Oxford English and Webster dictionaries agree with me. Look it up.

Theists have religion and atheists have science.

Again, everything is not always black and white. @Kai_Valya is a scientific minded theist. I am a religious minded atheist.

My point was not to say that everything is black and white, but in this particular argument it should be. The "grey" is why there are disagreements on who is a theist and who is an atheist. The grey areas leave room for biases and prejudices to be more influential on a person's stance than any insights associated with it.

Now, it is possible for someone to be a theist who has an interest in science and an atheist who has an interest for the concepts of religion. But in either case, they can't be both. Being religious minded says you accept everything that is associated with it including the existence of a deity, but to say you are an atheist means you would reject the essential part of religions...the existence of a deity. It's like me being scientific minded, but rejecting the answers that science comes up with. It's like replacing "4" with "God" for every equation...or concluding that because the numbers suggest an improbability about something then it is safe to say that "God did it".

 

[alissowack]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

I don't particularly know where @bigjames is going with what he said, but I agree with one point. Kids need to be allowed to be kids. They need to be able enjoy what it's like to dream and imagine. Taking away someone's childhood can inflict harm as well. They will grow up still trying to be kids or live like they are in their teens.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

I don't particularly know where @bigjames is going with what he said, but I agree with one point. Kids need to be allowed to be kids. They need to be able enjoy what it's like to dream and imagine. Taking away someone's childhood can inflict harm as well. They will grow up still trying to be kids or live like they are in their teens.

What does that have to do with religion? Religion isn't a necessary part of any child's childhood. There are plenty of fantasies for them to partake in with the knowledge that it is for play play. I knew Santa Clause was fake when i was a kid. It's as easy as explaining to your child that there are end of the year traditions where gifts are exchanged with no mention of religion. Isn't it enough that we have to live under the Gregorian calendar and celebrate the end of the year of our lord?

 

[zombie]

A real atheist stands on the position that God does not exist. No weak or strong, in other words people who do not know whether or not God exists are not atheists. Atheists are those that believe God does not exist. They do not believe in God.The term weak/strong atheist has no meaning. It is bullshit .Furthermore, like i keep saying those that do not know if God exists are not the same as those that do not believe in God. The first is an agnostic stance and the second is a atheist stance.

Atheism as a movement was caused and created solely out of fear and hate for the so called western GOD concept.

 

[Big James]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

That's child's natural state and how a child learns. I would argue that one is doing the child more harm and handicapping the child's mental growth by handicapping their imagination.

 

[Jabu_Rule]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

That's child's natural state and how a child learns. I would argue that one is doing the child more harm and handicapping the child's mental growth by handicapping their imagination.

When does the concept of God enter this imagination? Seems there's outside influence regardless.

 

[Bodhi]

My point was not to say that everything is black and white, but in this particular argument it should be.

Reality is not always what you want it to be or what you think it should be.

The "grey" is why there are disagreements on who is a theist and who is an atheist.

The disagreements come from people who don't understand it.

1. Theism = belief in God(s)

2. Atheism = non belief in God(s)

a.) weak atheism = non belief on the grounds of insufficient evidence to warrant belief in gods

b.) strong atheism = non belief on the grounds of sufficient evidence to prove the impossibility of gods existing

Being religious minded says you accept everything that is associated with it including the existence of a deity, but to say you are an atheist means you would reject the essential part of religions...the existence of a deity.

Religion does not equal theism. There are religions that reject theism and there are religions that do not require theistic beliefs.

It's like me being scientific minded, but rejecting the answers that science comes up with.

Many scientists of the past have rejected answers put forth by others and were able to provide an alternative answer that may or may not have led to correct understanding of truth.

 

[Bodhi]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

That's child's natural state and how a child learns. I would argue that one is doing the child more harm and handicapping the child's mental growth by handicapping their imagination.

explain how the development of imagination in children requires a theistic belief system.

 

[Bodhi]

A real atheist stands on the position that God does not exist. No weak or strong, in other words people who do not know whether or not God exists are not atheists. Atheists are those that believe God does not exist. They do not believe in God.The term weak/strong atheist has no meaning. It is bullshit .Furthermore, like i keep saying those that do not know if God exists are not the same as those that do not believe in God. The first is an agnostic stance and the second is a atheist stance.

Weak Atheist: I don't believe in God but I'm not certain that one does not exist; future science may prove the existence of some type of God but right now there is no evidence to support that theory.

Strong Atheist: I don't believe in God and I'm certain that no kind of God exists. There will never be evidence to support the God theory.

Agnostic: We will never know whether a God exists or not.

 

[zombie]

A real atheist stands on the position that God does not exist. No weak or strong, in other words people who do not know whether or not God exists are not atheists. Atheists are those that believe God does not exist. They do not believe in God.The term weak/strong atheist has no meaning. It is bullshit .Furthermore, like i keep saying those that do not know if God exists are not the same as those that do not believe in God. The first is an agnostic stance and the second is a atheist stance.

Weak Atheist: I don't believe in God but I'm not certain that one does not exist; future science may prove the existence of some type of God but right now there is no evidence to support that theory.

Strong Atheist: I don't believe in God and I'm certain that no kind of God exists. There will never be evidence to support the God theory.

Agnostic: We will never know whether a God exists or not.

weak atheism is a species of agnosticism both leave room for the possible existence of god. An atheist is someone who denies even the possiblity of god. Your meaning of agnostic is misleading an agnostic is someone who states that it is impossible to know the ultimate truth currently, not someone who says we will never know the truth.

 

[Big James]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

That's child's natural state and how a child learns. I would argue that one is doing the child more harm and handicapping the child's mental growth by handicapping their imagination.

explain how the development of imagination in children requires a theistic belief system.

I did so already, but I will say this whether you believe in God or not is irrelevant to my argument. The concept of God is healthy for a child's mental development because it will spark debate and imagination. Plain and simple!

 

[Jabu_Rule]

I think it is a bit sad that someone thinks the real world taken as it is would not spark curiosity and imagination. In my opinion diverting a child's curiosity from the real world to superstitions and fairy tales inflicts actual harm.

That's child's natural state and how a child learns. I would argue that one is doing the child more harm and handicapping the child's mental growth by handicapping their imagination.

explain how the development of imagination in children requires a theistic belief system.

I did so already, but I will say this whether you believe in God or not is irrelevant to my argument. The concept of God is healthy for a child's mental development because it will spark debate and imagination. Plain and simple!

A child doesn't require fallacies to develop their awareness of the world. A child doesn't have to learn the origin of this universe at all. Just tell that child you do not know the origins and the God concept has no proof. How is that hurting the child? Is it worse than telling a child that God is real? I see that more often than not. Actually, i notice that it's a daily indoctrination of saying God is good and God is real and children repeat it often with no chance to question unless they want to face the wrath of their family. It sounds like you're saying it's better to lie to your child than show them that people make shit up but you can make up your own stories too and try not to draw outside the lines. There are actually indoctrinating coloring books. I don't see "God is fake" coloring books.

 

[Bodhi]

weak atheism is a species of agnosticism both leave room for the possible existence of god.

So you acknowledge weak atheism as atheism??

An atheist is someone who denies even the possiblity of god.

An atheist is someone who denies or disbelieves in the existence of god(s). I'm not going to argue with you any further about dictionary definitions.

Atheist

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

^^^ An atheist can take one of two positions. Either to simply disbelieve in the existence god or deny the existence of god.

A convo with two atheists; one weak, one strong, may go something like this:

Q: Do you believe in god?

WA: No.

SA: No.

Q: Why don't you believe in god?

WA: There is no current evidence to support the idea.

SA: All of the evidence says the existence of a god is impossible.

^^^ One atheist disbelieves in god. The other denies the existence of god.

Here is how the Oxford English Dictionary defines "atheism":

atheism

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god.

disbelieve

1. trans. Not to believe or credit; to refuse credence to: a. a statement or (alleged) fact: To reject the truth or reality of.

deny

To contradict or gainsay (anything stated or alleged); to declare to be untrue or untenable, or not what it is stated to be.

Logic. The opposite of affirm; to assert the contradictory of (a proposition).

To refuse to admit the truth of (a doctrine or tenet); to reject as untrue or unfounded; the opposite of assert or maintain.

To refuse to recognize or acknowledge (a person or thing) as having a certain character or certain claims; to disown, disavow, repudiate, renounce.

Note that the OED definition covers the whole spectrum of atheist belief, from weak atheism (those who do not believe in or credit the existence of one or more gods) to strong atheism (those who assert the contrary position, that a god does not exist).

Here is Webster's definition of atheism:

atheism n 1 a: disbelief in the existence of God or any other deity b: the doctrine that there is neither god nor any other deity--compare AGNOSTICISM 2: godlessness esp. in conduct

disbelief n: the act of disbelieving : mental refusal to accept (as a statement or proposition) as true

disbelieve vb vt : to hold not to be true or real : reject or withold belief in vi : to withold or reject belief

Note that again, both strong (1b) and weak (1a) atheism are included in the definition.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-definitions.html

Your meaning of agnostic is misleading an agnostic is someone who states that it is impossible to know the ultimate truth currently, not someone who says we will never know the truth.

Agnostic

1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

^^^ Another dictionary definition you want to argue about. Even if we change the wording here:

Agnostic: We will never know whether a God exists or not. It is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

the agnostic still remains distinctly different from the atheist (weak or strong)

By definition, both theists and atheists can be agnostic, since agnosticism deals with the possibility of knowing and theism/atheism deals with believing in something

Agnostic theism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes in the existence of at least one deity, but regards the truth or falsehood of this proposition as unknown or inherently unknowable. The agnostic theist may also or alternatively be agnostic regarding the properties of the God(s) they believe in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who believes that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Plain agnosticism without atheism or theism means non commitment to either side of the issue. Basically, an "I don't know" answer to the god theory, whereas an atheist would say he doesnt believe and a theist would say she believes.

Agnostic

one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

...So, let's try this again, shall we??

Weak Atheist: I don't believe in God but I'm not certain that one does not exist; future science may prove the existence of some type of God but right now there is no evidence to support that theory.

Strong Atheist: I don't believe in God and I'm certain that no kind of God exists. There will never be evidence to support the God theory.

Agnostic: It is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

Agnostic Atheist: I do not believe in God but God's existence is ultimately unknowable.

Agnostic Theist: I believe in God even though God's existence is ultimately unknowable.

Theist: I believe in God(s)

 

[zombie]

weak atheism is a species of agnosticism both leave room for the possible existence of god.

So you acknowledge weak atheism as atheism??

An atheist is someone who denies even the possiblity of god.

An atheist is someone who denies or disbelieves in the existence of god(s). I'm not going to argue with you any further about dictionary definitions.

Atheist

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

^^^ An atheist can take one of two positions. Either to simply disbelieve in the existence god or deny the existence of god.

A convo with two atheists; one weak, one strong, may go something like this:

Q: Do you believe in god?

WA: No.

SA: No.

Q: Why don't you believe in god?

WA: There is no current evidence to support the idea.

SA: All of the evidence says the existence of a god is impossible.

^^^ One atheist disbelieves in god. The other denies the existence of god.

Here is how the Oxford English Dictionary defines "atheism":

atheism

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god.

disbelieve

1. trans. Not to believe or credit; to refuse credence to: a. a statement or (alleged) fact: To reject the truth or reality of.

deny

To contradict or gainsay (anything stated or alleged); to declare to be untrue or untenable, or not what it is stated to be.

Logic. The opposite of affirm; to assert the contradictory of (a proposition).

To refuse to admit the truth of (a doctrine or tenet); to reject as untrue or unfounded; the opposite of assert or maintain.

To refuse to recognize or acknowledge (a person or thing) as having a certain character or certain claims; to disown, disavow, repudiate, renounce.

Note that the OED definition covers the whole spectrum of atheist belief, from weak atheism (those who do not believe in or credit the existence of one or more gods) to strong atheism (those who assert the contrary position, that a god does not exist).

Here is Webster's definition of atheism:

atheism n 1 a: disbelief in the existence of God or any other deity b: the doctrine that there is neither god nor any other deity--compare AGNOSTICISM 2: godlessness esp. in conduct

disbelief n: the act of disbelieving : mental refusal to accept (as a statement or proposition) as true

disbelieve vb vt : to hold not to be true or real : reject or withold belief in vi : to withold or reject belief

Note that again, both strong (1b) and weak (1a) atheism are included in the definition.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-definitions.html

Your meaning of agnostic is misleading an agnostic is someone who states that it is impossible to know the ultimate truth currently, not someone who says we will never know the truth.

Agnostic

1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

^^^ Another dictionary definition you want to argue about. Even if we change the wording here:

Agnostic: We will never know whether a God exists or not. It is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

the agnostic still remains distinctly different from the atheist (weak or strong)

Weak atheism is not atheism it closer to agnosticism. The only atheism is the so called strong atheism. it matters not what is in the dictionary it's logically wrong even if it's in the dictionary. You have a non-theist standpoint but it's not an atheist standpoint.

Theist: God exists.

Atheist: God does not exist.

The 'A' in atheism means without,Theism is the position that God exists Atheism is the opposite position.There is no such thing as weak atheists or strong atheists. you so called weak atheist just don't want to be atheist because just like theism, atheism IS AN an irrational position.

You either believe in god or not. If you believe in neither, you are neither a theist or an atheist. There is no gray area for you to hairsplit. If YOU harbor the chance to change your mind you are not an atheist and since you said that we may find evidence for god in the future you are not an atheist.

You see, both agnostism and " weak atheism " are statements on lack of knowledge and evidence, they both say they don't believe because they lack evidence but god may still exist. There corner stone is there lack of knowledge but in essence they are the same.

real atheism says i don't believe because i have evidence.

Theism says i believe because i have evidence even if i don't understand that evidence. There is no weak or strong

 

[Bodhi]

The concept of God is healthy for a child's mental development because it will spark debate and imagination. Plain and simple!

I would say objective non biased teaching of religion and theism/atheism worldwide may spark debate and imagination but to indoctrinate a child into a religion does not imo spark much of anything except mainly commitment to that religion or belief.

What I'm saying is that a child's mental development does not depend on religion or theism. There are a multitude of ways to raise a child to be intelligent and creative/imaginative.

 

[Bodhi]

Weak atheism is not atheism it closer to agnosticism. The only atheism is the so called strong atheism. it matters not what is in the dictionary it's logically wrong even if it's in the dictionary. You have a non-theist standpoint but it's not an atheist standpoint.

Theist: God exists.

Atheist: God does not exist.

The 'A' in atheism means without,Theism is the position that God exists Atheism is the opposite position.There is no such thing as weak atheists or strong atheists. you so called weak atheist just don't want to be atheist because just like theism, atheism IS AN an irrational position.

You either believe in god or not. If you believe in neither, you are neither a theist or an atheist. There is no gray area for you to hairsplit. If YOU harbor the chance to change your mind you are not an atheist and since you said that we may find evidence for god in the future you are not an atheist.

You see, both agnostism and " weak atheism " are statements on lack of knowledge and evidence, they both say they don't believe because they lack evidence but god may still exist. There corner stone is there lack of knowledge but in essence they are the same.

real atheism says i don't believe because i have evidence.

Theism says i believe because i have evidence even if i don't understand that evidence. There is no weak or strong

An atheist is someone who denies or disbelieves in the existence of god(s). I'm not going to argue with you any further about dictionary definitions.

Atheist

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

^^^ An atheist can take one of two positions. Either to simply disbelieve in the existence god or deny the existence of god.

A convo with two atheists; one weak, one strong, may go something like this:

Q: Do you believe in god?

WA: No.

SA: No.

Q: Why don't you believe in god?

WA: There is no current evidence to support the idea.

SA: All of the evidence says the existence of a god is impossible.

^^^ One atheist disbelieves in god. The other denies the existence of god.

Here is how the Oxford English Dictionary defines "atheism":

atheism

Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god.

disbelieve

1. trans. Not to believe or credit; to refuse credence to: a. a statement or (alleged) fact: To reject the truth or reality of.

deny

To contradict or gainsay (anything stated or alleged); to declare to be untrue or untenable, or not what it is stated to be.

Logic. The opposite of affirm; to assert the contradictory of (a proposition).

To refuse to admit the truth of (a doctrine or tenet); to reject as untrue or unfounded; the opposite of assert or maintain.

To refuse to recognize or acknowledge (a person or thing) as having a certain character or certain claims; to disown, disavow, repudiate, renounce.

Note that the OED definition covers the whole spectrum of atheist belief, from weak atheism (those who do not believe in or credit the existence of one or more gods) to strong atheism (those who assert the contrary position, that a god does not exist).

Here is Webster's definition of atheism:

atheism n 1 a: disbelief in the existence of God or any other deity b: the doctrine that there is neither god nor any other deity--compare AGNOSTICISM 2: godlessness esp. in conduct

disbelief n: the act of disbelieving : mental refusal to accept (as a statement or proposition) as true

disbelieve vb vt : to hold not to be true or real : reject or withold belief in vi : to withold or reject belief

Note that again, both strong (1b) and weak (1a) atheism are included in the definition.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-definitions.html

Your meaning of agnostic is misleading an agnostic is someone who states that it is impossible to know the ultimate truth currently, not someone who says we will never know the truth.

Agnostic

1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

^^^ Another dictionary definition you want to argue about. Even if we change the wording here:

Agnostic: We will never know whether a God exists or not. It is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

the agnostic still remains distinctly different from the atheist (weak or strong)

By definition, both theists and atheists can be agnostic, since agnosticism deals with the possibility of knowing and theism/atheism deals with believing in something

Agnostic theism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes in the existence of at least one deity, but regards the truth or falsehood of this proposition as unknown or inherently unknowable. The agnostic theist may also or alternatively be agnostic regarding the properties of the God(s) they believe in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who believes that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Plain agnosticism without atheism or theism means non commitment to either side of the issue. Basically, an "I don't know" answer to the god theory, whereas an atheist would say he doesnt believe and a theist would say she believes.

Agnostic

one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

...So, let's try this again, shall we??

Weak Atheist: I don't believe in God.

Strong Atheist: God does not exist.

Agnostic: It is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

Agnostic Atheist: I do not believe in God but God's existence is ultimately unknowable.

Agnostic Theist: I believe in God even though God's existence is ultimately unknowable.

Theist: I believe in God(s)

 

[Bodhi]

The 'A' in atheism means without

Yeah, without belief. I've already went over that.

There is no such thing as weak atheists or strong atheists.

Look it up.

theism is an irrational position..

I know.

You either believe in god or not.

Right.

If you believe in neither, you are neither a theist or an atheist...

...Right.. if you believe in neither, you're an agnostic.

since you said that we may find evidence for god in the future you are not an atheist.

Anybody who disbelieves in god is an atheist. If the atheist says that he or she would change their minds given proof or evidence of a god's existence and the proof may exist possiblly, that does not mean he or she is no longer atheist.

You see, both agnostism and " weak atheism " are statements on lack of knowledge and evidence, they both say they don't believe because they lack evidence but god may still exist.

Atheism is lack of belief in god.

Agnosticism is lack of knowledge of god's existence.

Pure agnosticism does not take any side but agnosticism can be attached to either atheism or theism.

Theism says i believe because i have evidence even if i don't understand that evidence. There is no weak or strong

Theism says "I believe in God"

A theist who is not agnostic may claim to know that god exists. Usually, though, they go by "faith".

Agnostic Theism says "I believe in God but God's existence is unknowable"