Chi-Town Bully
New member
It's impossible for me to pick Elgin Baylor and George Gervin, I ain't never seen those dudes play and neither has the dudes picking them
S2J;8073601 said:
Chi-Town Bully;8073731 said:
People who know NBA history know what they have done tho.
But at the same time its hard to compare modern era to old school like Baylor.
Its kinda like people call MJ the greatest even tho Wilt was the most dominant player ever, but is rarely called the GOAT
Chi-Town Bully
New member
We've seen MJ play, even though Wilt put up monster numbers but they wasn't seen by my generation of fans so we typically put the dudes who we saw on a higher pedestal.
It's not taking away from what those dudes did in the past but actually seeing players dominate with your own eyes will win out more than reading stats
It's not taking away from what those dudes did in the past but actually seeing players dominate with your own eyes will win out more than reading stats
KneeGro_DuperMan
New member
This nigga Elgin was Barkley before Barkley & I'm giving him his respect. It ain't Elgin fault that my parents decided to fuck in the 80's.
luke1733;8073722 said:O.G.;8072487 said:luke1733;8072349 said:
He made first team all-defense 3 times and second team once.
DAmn O.G. you been at me since September of last year on this same topic when you wrote "wrong thread". I saw this when I went back to repost the reason why Iverson is BETTER than Barkley and you wrote "wrong thread" when I was talking about players with no rings.
Again, the numbers don't lie. Outside of rebounds Iverson had more an effect on the game before PER was invented, which I believe in PER somewhat and some of it is misleading when a franchise player is called on and pressured by his organization and team to take more risks than they would allow a regular player, but anyway here's the numbers on a conversation already had. Sidenote on the Malone issue: I don't care what awards Malone got on defense, that dude was not a defensive juggernaut threat when you looked at him play. I saw the dude, fuck the award!
Old conversation:
Iverson vs Barkley (I know they play diff't positions)
Just to show how great Iverson was and which class he belongs to. He is in the class of people you would put above a Charles Barkley.
Just had another convo about Iverson. Said he was better than Barkley and folks erupted, saying he wasn't.
Can't put AI above Jordan, Kobe, Magic and some others but he damn sure was better than Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Mookie Blaylock, Stephen Curry, Tony Parker .
Todd MacCulloch was Iverson's second best player on the team he took to the finals(I would've said Eric Snow, but stats say this dude). That says everything.
Charles 1984-1996
Iverson 1996-2008
Iverson beats Charles in Points Per game for each year of his career (excluding his last return to 76ers)
Iverson beats Charles in Assists Per game each year of his career
Charles kills Iverson (and most in NBA) in rebounds, but Iverson does pretty well for a shooting guard of 6’0 for rebounds.
Iverson played more minutes per season than Charles
Iverson shot better free throws than Charles (Charles was known for being a good free throw shooter)
Iverson’s 3pt percentage is better than Charles
Charles shot a better FG% through his career
Iverson beat Charles in steals per game for career
Iverson committed less fouls throughout career than Charles
Turnovers were roughly the same, again considering Iverson handled the ball 10x as much as Charles this I will say Iverson in essence committed fewer turnovers.
*Iverson was rated the fifth-greatest NBA shooting guard of all time by ESPN in 2008.
*Iverson won Big East Defensive Player of the Year awards both years he played with Georgetown.
*Iverson is also 12th on the list of ALL TIME STEAL Leaders. As Kevin Durant (also pretty good) recently said about him being best pound for pound.
We are gonna have to agree to disagree about Malone on defense. Malone played good defense. #1 all time in defensive rebounds and #10 all time in steals. The master of the pull the chair out technique and the stripping the ball from post players.
As for all that other stuff you typed about AI vs Barkley. YOU ARE COMPARING A SHOOTING/COMBO GUARD TO A POWER FORWARD!!!!
Iverson was first,second and third option as a scorer while a Sixer. Of course he is gonna have a better ppg average.
A guard who constantly has the ball in his hands will have more assists than a PF who has to wait to get the ball.
Well duh. A guard and PF have two different responsibilities when it comes to rebounding. Barkley plays in the post while AI roams the perimeter.
It's common knowledge that AI would pout if he had to come out of games. He even said it himself that he should of rested more.
Most guards shoot better free throws than Power Forwards. It's been this way since the peach baskets.
lol. Different responsibilities and different eras.
Post players usually will have a better FG% than guards. They take closer and easier shots. It's been this way since the peach baskets.
Guards normally have more steals than post players. Different responsibilities.
Post players are banging in the post so they will have more fouls than guards. It's been this way since the peach baskets.
It's not wrong to compare AI vs Barkley when it comes to all time ranking. I'm just saying that using their career numbers head to head as a gauge is silly bcuz they played two completely different positions.
O.G. it ain't silly.
"It's not wrong to compare AI vs Barkley when it comes to all time ranking. I'm just saying that using their career numbers head to head as a gauge is silly bcuz they played two completely different positions."
I get the point, but scouts do it and teams do it; so therefore I'm right in doing it. Even when a team doesn't have a particular need for a certain position, but that team is in need of a franchise player to define their team --THEY will do what I did. What I did (that you seem to miss going point to point and didn't get the point) was show the effect on the game.
In any sport and even in different sports from MMA to boxing people do it. Could Tyson ko Jon Jones? People do it.
Then someone like you comes along and says it's different, thinking we haven't already known this.
I can compare position with position or position to a different position in basketball and determine which player might seem to have certain effects on the game and which player might be the better player. It's done all the time, especially in a thread titled THE BEST PLAYERS TO NEVER WIN A RING that begs the question to compare or validate the choice. I can say Iverson was better than Patrick Ewing (you can say different positions; and I'll say you're changing the subject. If you want to stay on positions I can talk that, but I'll talk what the world does and be right in doing so if I choose to compare them; even if I know there position determines alot; but I can also say to that argument that the COACH determines alot in who gets the ball. Look at Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis these are players with the ball in their hands 80% of the time and aren't guards who all have guard numbers. The NBA has many positions or blending of responsibilities that makes my points relevant when talking about a players effect on the game) The game today is about "who is your best player" and the team gives him the ball to win it unless your a team like the Hawks or Spurs.
On your point on Barkley. Did you see Barkley? He played like a Point Forward, which in essence is a guard. He held the ball every possession for nearly 20 seconds(like a guard is given privilege to do) and would back a player in and then pump fake, pump fake, pump fake again, then ram his body into yours and then shoot. I'm about as right as comparing Barkley to a SG as a person would be in comparing Lebron a small forward to a power forward.
I get the point on positions limit a player tremendously on certain statistics and aspects of the game. I can have the convo on position with position. But I made my point on being able to compare players effects while taking into account their statistics to do so.
"It's not wrong to compare AI vs Barkley when it comes to all time ranking. I'm just saying that using their career numbers head to head as a gauge is silly bcuz they played two completely different positions."
I get the point, but scouts do it and teams do it; so therefore I'm right in doing it. Even when a team doesn't have a particular need for a certain position, but that team is in need of a franchise player to define their team --THEY will do what I did. What I did (that you seem to miss going point to point and didn't get the point) was show the effect on the game.
In any sport and even in different sports from MMA to boxing people do it. Could Tyson ko Jon Jones? People do it.
Then someone like you comes along and says it's different, thinking we haven't already known this.
I can compare position with position or position to a different position in basketball and determine which player might seem to have certain effects on the game and which player might be the better player. It's done all the time, especially in a thread titled THE BEST PLAYERS TO NEVER WIN A RING that begs the question to compare or validate the choice. I can say Iverson was better than Patrick Ewing (you can say different positions; and I'll say you're changing the subject. If you want to stay on positions I can talk that, but I'll talk what the world does and be right in doing so if I choose to compare them; even if I know there position determines alot; but I can also say to that argument that the COACH determines alot in who gets the ball. Look at Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis these are players with the ball in their hands 80% of the time and aren't guards who all have guard numbers. The NBA has many positions or blending of responsibilities that makes my points relevant when talking about a players effect on the game) The game today is about "who is your best player" and the team gives him the ball to win it unless your a team like the Hawks or Spurs.
On your point on Barkley. Did you see Barkley? He played like a Point Forward, which in essence is a guard. He held the ball every possession for nearly 20 seconds(like a guard is given privilege to do) and would back a player in and then pump fake, pump fake, pump fake again, then ram his body into yours and then shoot. I'm about as right as comparing Barkley to a SG as a person would be in comparing Lebron a small forward to a power forward.
I get the point on positions limit a player tremendously on certain statistics and aspects of the game. I can have the convo on position with position. But I made my point on being able to compare players effects while taking into account their statistics to do so.
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Ghostdenithegawd
New member
Kevin durant
fair is fair OG. We ain't the first to do it or the last. "Bill Russell or Jordan and why?" Is constantly a convo had.
Elgin Baylor better than Iverson? Maybe. Again, I didn't see Elgin, but his stats are good. I been watching basketball and playing since I was like 6 seriously cause of my neighborhood so yeah I do get into it to a degree, and the players mentioned on Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Iverson I remember everything about those guys game. I can even tell you their strategies on how they would get certain shots or where they liked the ball and who had the better spin on the ball. I studied that shit and got nothing to show for it but posting shit on AHH, so f- it.
Elgin Baylor better than Iverson? Maybe. Again, I didn't see Elgin, but his stats are good. I been watching basketball and playing since I was like 6 seriously cause of my neighborhood so yeah I do get into it to a degree, and the players mentioned on Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Iverson I remember everything about those guys game. I can even tell you their strategies on how they would get certain shots or where they liked the ball and who had the better spin on the ball. I studied that shit and got nothing to show for it but posting shit on AHH, so f- it.
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A.J. Trillzynski
New member
If Barkley had Stockton his numbers would be lopsided as hell, as it is Charles numbers about even with Malone which tells you everything you need to know.
KneeGro_DuperMan
New member
Nah dont do T-Mac like that. Cause regardless what round they got to, they never won the whole thing.
king hassan
New member
A.I better than Kevin Johnson, sigh
The Recipe
New member
Ai, Malone and Barkley those are the only 3 I considered voting for and there top 3.
BlackAX410
New member
king hassan;8082477 said:
U find sumthin wrong with this? Lol
DOPEdweebz
New member
I wonder if the folks going for Malone over Barkley are going strictly by the numbers though, vs actually watching them play. If Duncan didnt have all those MvPs and titles alot of you might given Malone the nod over Duncan based strictly iff stat geek shit. Alot of shit get lost in translation If you don't have the eye test. Like a REAL fan would though.
Besides rebounding Barkely could do more effective shit on the court with the ball in his hands (the offense could literally start from his end to the other, shit Malone needed Stockton for.
Besides rebounding Barkely could do more effective shit on the court with the ball in his hands (the offense could literally start from his end to the other, shit Malone needed Stockton for.
