Is the NBA on its way to a collapse?

[bow to royalty]

You're missing the point. The Finals ratings are not the main gauge on weather or not the NBA is successful. The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on guess what? That's right. What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell

Regular season ratings are down about 10% from last year. And they're the lowest they've been since the 07-08 season. And again, I said the NBA is doing well right now. My question is about 5 years from now. What's so hard to understand about that?

This is like me saying boxing is about to be in trouble because Floyd and Manny are old, and no one is is stepping up to bring viewers to boxing. And in reply you keep saying I'm wrong...look at the Pacquiao vs Mayweather PPV. It's the best the sport has ever seen. I'm not talking about now.

 

[coop9889]

In 5 years, Kobe is retired, Lebron has 4 rings and is nearing retirement. DWade might be out. CP3 might be out. Dirk is gone. Duncan is gone. Howard is near retirement. Curry, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, Harden, Blake, and Durant are running the league. Wiggins and Jabari are in their prime. Some new nigga from college is the new "next nigga" lol. Its a never ending cycle.

We'll be good.

 

[bow to royalty]

In 5 years, Kobe is retired, Lebron has 4 rings and is nearing retirement. DWade might be out. CP3 might be out. Dirk is gone. Duncan is gone. Howard is near retirement. Curry, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, Harden, Blake, and Durant are running the league. Wiggins and Jabari are in their prime. Some new nigga from college is the new "next nigga" lol. Its a never ending cycle.

We'll be good.

In 5 years though, most of the players you just named will be older than Lebron is now, and won't get shine until after he's gone if he keeps winning rings like you're expecting. Gonna build on the hype of guys over 30? Davis, Wiggins, and Parker are the only ones under 30 in 5 years. But I'm not doubting NBA talent. Just asking which of the guys will be bigger than basketball like Lebron, Kobe, and Shaq were? Are they the next household name that has people asking "Could he be the best ever?".

 

[bow to royalty]

The premise of your argument has some merit.

When Mike left for good, the NBA had some down years.

But Jordan was such an immensely popular global brand, his departure would have left a gaping hole in any industry; necessitating a recovery period.

Also, the business model for the NBA has transformed considerably since then, as has the market for how money is made in the sports arena.

You are placing to much dependency on the superstar narrative, as @OG pointed out in last comment:

The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on ... What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell

Does the NBA have the most Risk Averse business model out there?

No

Is it what the they have to work with?

Yes

Can/ will the league be successful with it, long term?

Definitely

When Mike finally left Kobe and Shaq were doing their 3-peat though. 2 of the most dominant players the league has ever seen were out there killin people. So the baton was successfully passed. But when he was gone, it hit the league.

" The 1993 Finals between Chicago and Phoenix, with Jordan vs. Barkley, had averaged a 17.9 rating. That dipped to 12.4 in 1994 and 13.9 in 1995. When Jordan and the Bulls got back to winning Larry O’Brien trophies, the average ratings were 16.7, 16.8 and a record 18.7 in 1998 that still stands. The 1999 Finals, after Jordan’s next exit? Just 11.3."

You're right though. My wording was too strong with collapse. The league won't go out of business. The NBA may be running into harder times after Bron leaves.

 

[coop9889]

In 5 years, Kobe is retired, Lebron has 4 rings and is nearing retirement. DWade might be out. CP3 might be out. Dirk is gone. Duncan is gone. Howard is near retirement. Curry, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, Harden, Blake, and Durant are running the league. Wiggins and Jabari are in their prime. Some new nigga from college is the new "next nigga" lol. Its a never ending cycle.

We'll be good.

In 5 years though, most of the players you just named will be older than Lebron is now, and won't get shine until after he's gone if he keeps winning rings like you're expecting. Gonna build on the hype of guys over 30? Davis, Wiggins, and Parker are the only ones under 30 in 5 years. But I'm not doubting NBA talent. Just asking which of the guys will be bigger than basketball like Lebron, Kobe, and Shaq were? Are they the next household name that has people asking "Could he be the best ever?".

Interesting. After Lebron retires I highly doubt there will be another clear-cut "best player in the league" in contention for the mt. rushmore of the nba. After MJ, it was ONLY Kobe and Lebron. I already think it's too late for Durant, and Anthony Davis? I don't see it happening.

So yeah no, I don't foresee the 'superstar of the superstars' emerging anytime soon.

 

[mikelewis2]

If I recall correctly, 5 years after Jordan retired, we have an AI and Kobe running the league. Guys like Duncan were successful and that one Kings team that was always so close but so far.

Thing that one has to realize is that during the decline, a lot of these guys are not only passing down their knowledge to their teammates, but also you have kids out there going to enter the draft and get the same shone these older guys received during their tenure.

Basketball is a global sport, so if not from here, you may get another Dirk from overseas. That is the fun of all sports, to see what the new generation of talent can bring.

 

[O.G.]

The premise of your argument has some merit.

When Mike left for good, the NBA had some down years.

But Jordan was such an immensely popular global brand, his departure would have left a gaping hole in any industry; necessitating a recovery period.

Also, the business model for the NBA has transformed considerably since then, as has the market for how money is made in the sports arena.

You are placing to much dependency on the superstar narrative, as @OG pointed out in last comment:

The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on ... What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell

Does the NBA have the most Risk Averse business model out there?

No

Is it what the they have to work with?

Yes

Can/ will the league be successful with it, long term?

Definitely

When Mike finally left Kobe and Shaq were doing their 3-peat though. 2 of the most dominant players the league has ever seen were out there killin people. So the baton was successfully passed. But when he was gone, it hit the league.

" The 1993 Finals between Chicago and Phoenix, with Jordan vs. Barkley, had averaged a 17.9 rating. That dipped to 12.4 in 1994 and 13.9 in 1995. When Jordan and the Bulls got back to winning Larry O’Brien trophies, the average ratings were 16.7, 16.8 and a record 18.7 in 1998 that still stands. The 1999 Finals, after Jordan’s next exit? Just 11.3."

You're right though. My wording was too strong with collapse. The league won't go out of business. The NBA may be running into harder times after Bron leaves.

Despite those declining numbers the talent pool got better and the salaries and tv contracts got bigger. Nobody knows the future of the NBA. Not you or I. If the past is any indication of the future than the NBA will be Just fine. All I am saying is you should not put so much emphases on Finals ratings to determine how well the league is doing. Just bcuz casuals were not watching, doesn't mean that Hakeem didn't dominate during '94 & '95 and it is still talked about. The game goes on it will be fine moving forward. Let's not act like Zaire Wade ain't about to come through and crush the buildings. Have faith my brotha.

 

[blu197]

NBA isnt worried about Kobe or Lebron retiring and the ratings dropping, there will be some new nigga named Henry McFiggle that ppl will be labeling as the GOAT or top 5 and it will be sooner than later...

Larry Bird said back at the peak of his playing career "All I know is that people tend to forget how great the older great players were. It'll happen that way with me too." Then sure enough just only a few years later when KG and Ai were dominating in high school ppl were already saying that competition and talent was better...

In 10-15 years niggas and kids will look back at Lebron and KD highlights and say that the talent and competition sucks compared to the NBA in the year of 2034, each new generation does it to the one before them and the generation that was before the last gets shitted on even worse, but the NBA will always win...

 

[Crude_]

There will always be some new player that will emerge.

After Jordan's second retirement after the '98 season nobody envisioned a Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, or even an Allen Iverson type player when he was running things 10-15 years ago for a few years.

Remember cats were saying we might not even see a talent close to Jordans in our lifetimes; I don't think Kobe or Lebron are better than he was up to this point in their respective careers but they're as close to him as you can get without being better and one of which still has plenty of time left in the league.

Before Jordan there was Dr. J, Magic, and Bird many say those were the Golden Years of the league, then there was Jordan, after Jordan there was Kobe and LeBron.

Eventually when Lebron decides to hang it up there will be some new guy that's either already in the league or in college coming into the league that will be the next big thing and arguably nearly as good as or better than the aforementioned players.

It's the cycle of life; the NBA will be fine.

 

[numbaz...80's baby]

Lol that was a troll thread

 

[Elzo69Renaissance]

My moms favorite bball player is Chris Paul so.....

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

Lol that was a troll thread

hmmm, saving face i see lol

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

t/s we've already determined nba topics arent for you

I'm an 80's baby too and I can say you have more All-Stars in today's game (superstars is debateable) than yesterday and overrall players.

Can't really get into an argument with you besides using numbers. These are the players of today.

We have to put structure to the years we're talking about for players primes within a generation.

I say 10 year stretches is fair. In other words give me the 80's or 90's and I'll give you a list of players from the years 2015 to 2005. You'll see that today the past 10 years has been pretty good to basketball.

For the sake of the 4 year stretch you're probably talking about I'll leave off players like Kevin Garnett or Ray Allen and go for the list below for the past 4 years and compare that with 10 years.

Stephen Curry, Westbrook, Durant, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Aldridge, D-Rose, Kyrie Irving are Superstars in ANY day.

But here's a list of All-Stars comparable with any day in numbers you're talking, some of them I already listed above as Superstars:

Westbrook

John Wall

Durant

Chris Paul

Tony Parker

La Marcus Aldridge

Kyrie Irving

Damian Lillard

Stephen Curry

Anthony Davis

Dwyane Wade

Carmelo

Dirk

Dwight (hard to put him on this list cause he's a lion in the land of oz with no heart)

Derrick Rose

(intentionally left off regular All-Stars such as: Demarcus Cousins, Jimmy Butler, Chris Bosh,Derron Williams,Zach Randolph, Klay Thompson,Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan (only b/c of his age today is he not a superstar), Horford,Teague, Brook Lopez, Paul Pierce, Blake Griffin (almost superstar but just isn't and might not ever be)

I wouldn't call the bold superstars. Even Durant's debatable. Superstars have a certain amount of popularity within the general public, and a certain amount of success. Curry is working on getting on superstar level. Westbrook is the #2 guy on a team that has 1 finals appearance and got swept. Chris Paul has had too little team success for someone's who's 30 and has been in the league for a decade. Aldridge....c'mon. I'm skeptical on Rose, but gave him the benefit of the doubt. And Irving isn't there yet, but if him and Lebron can stream together some titles it could happen.

KD easily a superstar

And Russ didn't get the broom

Yall forget how old Curry is too

KD was on his way to superstar then fell off the path, but I think he didn't reach the level of team success people expected of him. Then the media stopped loving him as much (and loving Westbrook more because of this year). Hard to be easily a superstar when people debate if it's your team, unless you have a beastly team (Shaq/Kobe, Shaq/Wade, Lebron/Wade, Spurs, etc.). I'm not a NBA fan at all, and only watch some games in some series. But that may make me an even better judge of all-star because sometimes big NBA fans forget non-fans dunno these people. Dude said Aldridge up there...I had to think hard about who he was.

 

[Beta]

Unlike american football, basketball is a global game that's getting even bigger internationally

 

[numbaz...80's baby]

Lol that was a troll thread

hmmm, saving face i see lol

No, I said it was a troll thread, in that thread, a week ago.

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

 

[bow to royalty]

Lol that was a troll thread

This is a different question than that one. But I wanted to give credit where it was due for what got me thinking this

 

[bow to royalty]

t/s we've already determined nba topics arent for you

I'm an 80's baby too and I can say you have more All-Stars in today's game (superstars is debateable) than yesterday and overrall players.

Can't really get into an argument with you besides using numbers. These are the players of today.

We have to put structure to the years we're talking about for players primes within a generation.

I say 10 year stretches is fair. In other words give me the 80's or 90's and I'll give you a list of players from the years 2015 to 2005. You'll see that today the past 10 years has been pretty good to basketball.

For the sake of the 4 year stretch you're probably talking about I'll leave off players like Kevin Garnett or Ray Allen and go for the list below for the past 4 years and compare that with 10 years.

Stephen Curry, Westbrook, Durant, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Aldridge, D-Rose, Kyrie Irving are Superstars in ANY day.

But here's a list of All-Stars comparable with any day in numbers you're talking, some of them I already listed above as Superstars:

Westbrook

John Wall

Durant

Chris Paul

Tony Parker

La Marcus Aldridge

Kyrie Irving

Damian Lillard

Stephen Curry

Anthony Davis

Dwyane Wade

Carmelo

Dirk

Dwight (hard to put him on this list cause he's a lion in the land of oz with no heart)

Derrick Rose

(intentionally left off regular All-Stars such as: Demarcus Cousins, Jimmy Butler, Chris Bosh,Derron Williams,Zach Randolph, Klay Thompson,Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan (only b/c of his age today is he not a superstar), Horford,Teague, Brook Lopez, Paul Pierce, Blake Griffin (almost superstar but just isn't and might not ever be)

I wouldn't call the bold superstars. Even Durant's debatable. Superstars have a certain amount of popularity within the general public, and a certain amount of success. Curry is working on getting on superstar level. Westbrook is the #2 guy on a team that has 1 finals appearance and got swept. Chris Paul has had too little team success for someone's who's 30 and has been in the league for a decade. Aldridge....c'mon. I'm skeptical on Rose, but gave him the benefit of the doubt. And Irving isn't there yet, but if him and Lebron can stream together some titles it could happen.

KD easily a superstar

And Russ didn't get the broom

Yall forget how old Curry is too

KD was on his way to superstar then fell off the path, but I think he didn't reach the level of team success people expected of him. Then the media stopped loving him as much (and loving Westbrook more because of this year). Hard to be easily a superstar when people debate if it's your team, unless you have a beastly team (Shaq/Kobe, Shaq/Wade, Lebron/Wade, Spurs, etc.). I'm not a NBA fan at all, and only watch some games in some series. But that may make me an even better judge of all-star because sometimes big NBA fans forget non-fans dunno these people. Dude said Aldridge up there...I had to think hard about who he was.

What did I say that wasn't true? KD isn't a superstar, and he hasn't yet reached the level of team success people expected of him. And me not really messing with basketball like that is irrelevant... I'm talking business, not X's and O's.

 

[Peezy_Jenkins]

ur talking go ask the middle age ladies.... bruh who gives a fuckin fuck if a 50 year old lady knows certain players are u got damn kidding me? i kno an older female who knew enough to cheer for boston during they run because of rondo, and now is a "thunder fan" cuz of KD and stressbrook and is currently cheering for "that curry boy" cuz "lebron ugly", them women bless they heart they damn watch basketball based on looks just as much as to see a good game

ur talking business but asking if the nba is about to fail when its thriving right now. playoff ratings are high, cap goin up, and two franchises that have been stuck in oblivion at least since ive been alive have the finals ratings as high as they've ever been

KD is a superstar by whatever silly superstar definition u wanna have, u not really messing with basketball is why u dont know that and dont even know who some star players are

and u talkin about kd not reaching a level of team success like hes fuckin 40, that nigga 26 years old, entering his prime years. bruh please just ask a mod to erase this stupid ass thread. for the betterment of the cheap seats.

 

[bow to royalty]

The premise of your argument has some merit.

When Mike left for good, the NBA had some down years.

But Jordan was such an immensely popular global brand, his departure would have left a gaping hole in any industry; necessitating a recovery period.

Also, the business model for the NBA has transformed considerably since then, as has the market for how money is made in the sports arena.

You are placing to much dependency on the superstar narrative, as @OG pointed out in last comment:

The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on ... What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell

Does the NBA have the most Risk Averse business model out there?

No

Is it what the they have to work with?

Yes

Can/ will the league be successful with it, long term?

Definitely

When Mike finally left Kobe and Shaq were doing their 3-peat though. 2 of the most dominant players the league has ever seen were out there killin people. So the baton was successfully passed. But when he was gone, it hit the league.

" The 1993 Finals between Chicago and Phoenix, with Jordan vs. Barkley, had averaged a 17.9 rating. That dipped to 12.4 in 1994 and 13.9 in 1995. When Jordan and the Bulls got back to winning Larry O’Brien trophies, the average ratings were 16.7, 16.8 and a record 18.7 in 1998 that still stands. The 1999 Finals, after Jordan’s next exit? Just 11.3."

You're right though. My wording was too strong with collapse. The league won't go out of business. The NBA may be running into harder times after Bron leaves.

Despite those declining numbers the talent pool got better and the salaries and tv contracts got bigger. Nobody knows the future of the NBA. Not you or I. If the past is any indication of the future than the NBA will be Just fine. All I am saying is you should not put so much emphases on Finals ratings to determine how well the league is doing. Just bcuz casuals were not watching, doesn't mean that Hakeem didn't dominate during '94 & '95 and it is still talked about. The game goes on it will be fine moving forward. Let's not act like Zaire Wade ain't about to come through and crush the buildings. Have faith my brotha.

I hear you. I just put emphasis on the finals because that's the big show. It's intended to be a best of 7 series of the 2 best teams the league has to offer. Also your last dose of basketball until next season. Hakeem was a beast, and fans will talk about it. But the same could be said about players in the Stanley Cup Finals right now. The talent is there, and the games are good...but the NHL needs people to watch. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.