Who Do You Think Made The Bigger Impact Of Their Own Genre: Kurt Cobain or Tupac Shakur

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All eyez on me is garbage,the production sucks and sounds dated

If I start quoting lyrics then this shit can get ugly

Ambitionz az a Ridah

All Bout U

Skandalouz

Got My Mind Made Up

How Do U Want It

2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted

No More Pain

Heartz of Men

Life Goes On

Only God Can Judge Me

Tradin War Stories

California Love (Remix)

I Ain't Mad at Cha

What'z Ya Phone #

Disc 2



Can't C Me

Shorty Wanna Be a Thug

Holla at Me

Wonda Why They Call U Bitch

When We Ride

Thug Passion

Picture Me Rollin

Check Out Time

Ratha Be Ya Nigga

All Eyez on Me

Run tha Streetz

Ain't Hard 2 Find

Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find

The bolded are the only good songs 7 out of 27 songs and big sike bodied tupack on all eyez on me just like he did on cradle to the grave

Get over it
 
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alphajjc;4588794 said:
Bawse D.Lox;4588724 said:
alphajjc;4588592 said:
God damn it really can be annoying sometimes seeing people just follow Pac like blind groupies and can NEVER EVER admit flaws that he had.

Nas is my favorite rapper, but even I called him out on here with the whole Gwen Paltrow situation. I also like Pac but it just seems that people keep finding excuses for him.

What is the point of people bringing up album sales constantly?

We can't talk about "impact" without only bringing up album sales?

jono brought up a very good point when he spoke about how Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap. I never even thought about that before but its a great point.

Alot of us automatically assume that "selling out" means making pop songs but that does not always have to be the case

Pac sold out??

how???

nigga started Thug Life in 92'. nigga been catching cases since 91'. when did this nigga sold out???

was it in 93' ????, when he dropped songs like "Keep Ya HEad Up", "Papaz Song"?

or 95' ???? when he dropped songs like "Dear Mama", "Shed So Many Tears", "ME Agianst The WOrld" "Young Niggaz"

or, All Eyez On Me???? when he had tracks like, "Only God can Judge" "I Ain't Mad Atcha", "HEartz Of MEn"," Wonder Y They Call U Bitch". "Shorty wanna be a thug"

or Mackaveli??? with songs like "Blasphemy", "White Mans World", "Hold Ya Head","Smile"*

even in "Hail Mary" had social commentary.

soooooooooooo when did he stray from his social commentary????

even in songs that came out after he died like "Baby Don't Cry", "Letter To The President" "TEar Drops and Closed Casket", "This ain't Living" etc etc. had social commentary.

it was alot less than what he did on 2pacalypse

That is the point I am making.

I am not saying that LITERALLY he never made social commentary songs again, I just said that it was alot less than when he first started.

By the way you cannot really say Hail Mary is a social commentary song

if a nigga has a good 3-4, social commentary songs on an album, that has 12-14 tracks. what can u complain about????

2nd off 2pac was always on that gangsta shit, he was born a Panther, why did 2pacalypse Now got banned by the Vice President???

niggaz acting like the whole album was just "Brenda's Got a Baby"

Hail mary is very social commentary song 2 me

and that's not what u said. u said

Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap.
 
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Tommy bilfiger;4588851 said:
All eyez on me is garbage,the production sucks and sounds dated

If I start quoting lyrics then this shit can get ugly

Ambitionz az a Ridah

All Bout U

Skandalouz

Got My Mind Made Up

How Do U Want It

2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted

No More Pain

Heartz of Men

Life Goes On

Only God Can Judge Me

Tradin War Stories

California Love (Remix)

I Ain't Mad at Cha

What'z Ya Phone #

Disc 2



Can't C Me

Shorty Wanna Be a Thug

Holla at Me

Wonda Why They Call U Bitch

When We Ride

Thug Passion

Picture Me Rollin

Check Out Time

Ratha Be Ya Nigga

All Eyez on Me

Run tha Streetz

Ain't Hard 2 Find

Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find

The bolded are the only good songs 7 out of 27 songs and big sike bodied tupack on all eyez on me just like he did on cradle to the graveGet over it

jack_lol.gif


 


plocc;4588816 said:
Bawse D. Lox. Since your breaking down my post. Read it carefully. I didnt say Tupac wasnt known outside of his music, i said he's more known for antics aside from his music. I also stated that Nirvana didnt invent grunge, they took it to another level.

I hadnt heard of grunge until i started seeing smells like teen spirit on mtv everytime i turned to it. Not Pearl Jam. This thread isnt about Pearl Jam. If you ever watch the Tupac bio. Listen to the people who really knew him like shock g, money b, and some of the people he lived with before he really got. As far as a statue in Germany. Sounds like a bunch of disillusioned fans with too much time on their hands. I can see having one in the bay area, baltimore, or brooklyn where he actually lived, but Germany Cmon son. Dick ridin to the nth degree.

dick riding or cultural impact????

 
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Tommy bilfiger;4588851 said:
All eyez on me is garbage,the production sucks and sounds dated

If I start quoting lyrics then this shit can get ugly

Ambitionz az a Ridah

All Bout U

Skandalouz

Got My Mind Made Up

How Do U Want It

2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted

No More Pain

Heartz of Men

Life Goes On

Only God Can Judge Me

Tradin War Stories

California Love (Remix)

I Ain't Mad at Cha

What'z Ya Phone #

Disc 2



Can't C Me

Shorty Wanna Be a Thug

Holla at Me

Wonda Why They Call U Bitch

When We Ride

Thug Passion

Picture Me Rollin

Check Out Time

Ratha Be Ya Nigga

All Eyez on Me

Run tha Streetz

Ain't Hard 2 Find

Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find

The bolded are the only good songs 7 out of 27 songs and big sike bodied tupack on all eyez on me just like he did on cradle to the grave

Get over it

33dc794a.gif


Tommy its time to delete this thread from your "BookMarks" you havent dropped no facts in this whole thread.

Just bullshit and lies accept, now explain how the fuck inst PAC known for his music? you sound completely lost...

Dear Momma got recognized by the damn Library of congress. THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS its not Sam Goody or FYE..... its the fuckin Library of Congress. The only song on AEOM that inst all that is "Whatz Ya Phone #" the Other 26 can easily be singles.

Like I said delete this thread from your bookmarks. Go to the settings on your phone and turn the "Pac Alerts" off. You will never get co-signed for the ignorant/dumb/fairy tale bull shit you drop.

Get The Fuck Outta Here GNS is over there >>>>>

Class Dismissed.
 
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I think cats still miss the point. Nobody is saying Pac is wack or anything like that but there is a marked difference in his sound from 2Pacalypse Now to All Eyez On Me. He changed that shit up! And he had to because he had gotten surpassed by at least 90% of the niggas he was dissing around that time.

Nas had dropped Illmatic and was heralded as the second coming of Rakim off ONE ALBUM! It took Pac 3 to get his buzz right.

Jay-Z was being co-signed by O.Gs like Jaz-O and Big Daddy Kane (even made an appearance on BDK's Daddy's Home album), granted Jigga had no real solo material at the time but he was running with heavyweights and gaining clout. 2Pac was in Digital Underground and to say he was IN it is overstating it, technically he was the little homie (back up dancer) who they let spit from time to time.

B.I.G., who Pac supposedly schooled to the rap game, had zoomed pass Pac and was crowned King of New York and the second coming of Big Daddy Kane after ONE ALBUM...again it took Pac 3 to get that clout.

Mobb Deep was smashing the game when they dropped The Infamous in 1995. Immediate impact, cats woke up. Pac was sitting in jail or just coming out during this time.

Suge blew breath into Pac while he was in prison. Suge hyped him up, promoted him, got him off his label and signed him. He began building Death Row behind 2Pac (it should be noted that Dre & Snoop as well as West Coast Hip-Hop were already on fire during this time), it was the equivalent of a big time free agent signing to a championship team. The team was already tight he just added to it.

Once Pac was on Death Row he became the centerpiece, the head MC (as he was the best rapper on the label unquestionably). So he had to promote their "style" the Death Row sound which was gangsta rap. Pac pretty much dropped all that "Panther Power" shit and got on some flossin' "Picture Me Rollin" type shit. It worked and he got the success he had always wanted.

All the beefs and shit were probably Suge's idea, mixed in with Pac's jealousy of BIG, Mobb Deep & Nas and the paranoia he attained after he got shot. If he was some revolutionary artist why did he change? Niggas like Ice Cube didn't change. Cube always mixed social commentary heavily into his albums even if they didn't do well commercially. I'm working off memory here but "Wonda Why They Call You Bitch" was probably the only social commentary he spoke on AEOM. The rest was about him "ridin on his enemies" or fuckin bitches. The nigga did a song with Jodeci man! Lol.

He had the hottest producer in the game (Dre) and a hot #2 MC (Snoop) on the hottest label in the game, of course he was successful! But BEFORE then he wasn't really seen as being THAT dude on the mic. He was known for acting an ass on TV all the time, movies, getting shot & the rape case. All the Black Panthers stuff was background noise to him being the posterboy for ignorant niggas everywhere.
 
jono;4589504 said:
I think cats still miss the point. Nobody is saying Pac is wack or anything like that but there is a marked difference in his sound from 2Pacalypse Now to All Eyez On Me. He changed that shit up! And he had to because he had gotten surpassed by at least 90% of the niggas he was dissing around that time.

Nas had dropped Illmatic and was heralded as the second coming of Rakim off ONE ALBUM! It took Pac 3 to get his buzz right.

Jay-Z was being co-signed by O.Gs like Jaz-O and Big Daddy Kane (even made an appearance on BDK's Daddy's Home album), granted Jigga had no real solo material at the time but he was running with heavyweights and gaining clout. 2Pac was in Digital Underground and to say he was IN it is overstating it, technically he was the little homie (back up dancer) who they let spit from time to time.

B.I.G., who Pac supposedly schooled to the rap game, had zoomed pass Pac and was crowned King of New York and the second coming of Big Daddy Kane after ONE ALBUM...again it took Pac 3 to get that clout.

Mobb Deep was smashing the game when they dropped The Infamous in 1995. Immediate impact, cats woke up. Pac was sitting in jail or just coming out during this time.

Suge blew breath into Pac while he was in prison. Suge hyped him up, promoted him, got him off his label and signed him. He began building Death Row behind 2Pac (it should be noted that Dre & Snoop as well as West Coast Hip-Hop were already on fire during this time), it was the equivalent of a big time free agent signing to a championship team. The team was already tight he just added to it.

Once Pac was on Death Row he became the centerpiece, the head MC (as he was the best rapper on the label unquestionably). So he had to promote their "style" the Death Row sound which was gangsta rap. Pac pretty much dropped all that "Panther Power" shit and got on some flossin' "Picture Me Rollin" type shit. It worked and he got the success he had always wanted.

All the beefs and shit were probably Suge's idea, mixed in with Pac's jealousy of BIG, Mobb Deep & Nas and the paranoia he attained after he got shot. If he was some revolutionary artist why did he change? Niggas like Ice Cube didn't change. Cube always mixed social commentary heavily into his albums even if they didn't do well commercially. I'm working off memory here but "Wonda Why They Call You Bitch" was probably the only social commentary he spoke on AEOM. The rest was about him "ridin on his enemies" or fuckin bitches. The nigga did a song with Jodeci man! Lol.

He had the hottest producer in the game (Dre) and a hot #2 MC (Snoop) on the hottest label in the game, of course he was successful! But BEFORE then he wasn't really seen as being THAT dude on the mic. He was known for acting an ass on TV all the time, movies, getting shot & the rape case. All the Black Panthers stuff was background noise to him being the posterboy for ignorant niggas everywhere.

so 2Pac went from

2pacalypse Now to All Eyez On Me. just like that?

no Strictly 4 My Niggaz??, No Thug Life Vol. 1???, No Me Against The World?????

So he had to promote their "style" the Death Row sound which was gangsta rap. Pac pretty much dropped all that "Panther Power" shit and got on some flossin' "Picture Me Rollin" type shit

Just 2pacalypse to All Eyez On Me. gotcha.

Soooo , Pac Got "Thug Life" Freshly Tatted on Him,once he got on Deathrow to promote their style???

Gotcha

So you're Gonna really act like, Pac didn't hopped off that Panther Shit in 93' when he created Thug Life?

Nas had dropped Illmatic and was heralded as the second coming of Rakim off ONE ALBUM! It took Pac 3 to get his buzz right.

Jay-Z was being co-signed by O.Gs like Jaz-O and Big Daddy Kane (even made an appearance on BDK's Daddy's Home album), granted Jigga had no real solo material at the time but he was running with heavyweights and gaining clout. 2Pac was in Digital Underground and to say he was IN it is overstating it, technically he was the little homie (back up dancer) who they let spit from time to time.

and how did Nas have a bigger buzz than 2Pac????

when 2Pac 1st album went gold in 1991. Yet It took Illmatic 7 years to go plat.

Nas had all the Magazines, and hottest producers In NY and Og's Like Kool G backing him ,to only sell 59,000 copies in its first fucking week.

Again if 2pacalypse Now, wasn't on the radar, why the Vice President of the United States Of Fucking America Banned His Shit???????

Strictly 4 My Niggaz= Plat , 3 songs on the bill board top 100, movies with janet jackson, yet Pac was jealous? of who?

94'Thug Life Vol. 1 = gold compilation album, Got some Hood Classics on That. Above The RIm

95' #1 album in the world. beat out Bruce Springsteen for the #1 Spot. Yet Pac was jealous of mobb deep??? who barley went gold with "The Infamous" in 95??

him and Biggie sold the same amount of records, yet Pac was locked up.

Biggie was able to do all the promotions and features in the world. and they still sold the same amount of records.

Biggie had more songs on rotation on the radio than Pac. Yet they still sold the same amount of records.

ANd did you bring up Jay??

now Jay is the King, But back in 95/96. Jay was irrelevant. ,dude was Biggie's hype man. Jay= Lil Cease with a Solo effort, back in 95' 96'.

Yea it Took Pac longer, he came in the game as an 17/18 year old backup dancer, recorded his 1st gold album at 19.

he was 21, 22 when his second album came out.

niggaz forgot that pac was only 23/24 when Me Against The World Drop. and was 24 when he recorded all Eyez On Me. He Died @ 25.

at the same damn time-Future, Jay was 26 /27 years old.

One question how old is you Bruh???????
 
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jono;4589504 said:
there is a marked difference in his sound from 2Pacalypse Now to All Eyez On Me. He changed that shit up! And he had to because he had gotten surpassed by at least 90% of the niggas he was dissing around that time.



Nas had dropped Illmatic and was heralded as the second coming of Rakim off ONE ALBUM! It took Pac 3 to get his buzz right.

Jay-Z was being co-signed by O.Gs like Jaz-O and Big Daddy Kane (even made an appearance on BDK's Daddy's Home album), granted Jigga had no real solo material at the time but he was running with heavyweights and gaining clout. 2Pac was in Digital Underground and to say he was IN it is overstating it, technically he was the little homie (back up dancer) who they let spit from time to time.

B.I.G., who Pac supposedly schooled to the rap game, had zoomed pass Pac and was crowned King of New York and the second coming of Big Daddy Kane after ONE ALBUM...again it took Pac 3 to get that clout.

Mobb Deep was smashing the game when they dropped The Infamous in 1995. Immediate impact, cats woke up. Pac was sitting in jail or just coming out during this time.

Suge blew breath into Pac while he was in prison. Suge hyped him up, promoted him, got him off his label and signed him. He began building Death Row behind 2Pac (it should be noted that Dre & Snoop as well as West Coast Hip-Hop were already on fire during this time), it was the equivalent of a big time free agent signing to a championship team. The team was already tight he just added to it.

Once Pac was on Death Row he became the centerpiece, the head MC (as he was the best rapper on the label unquestionably). So he had to promote their "style" the Death Row sound which was gangsta rap. Pac pretty much dropped all that "Panther Power" shit and got on some flossin' "Picture Me Rollin" type shit. It worked and he got the success he had always wanted.

All the beefs and shit were probably Suge's idea, mixed in with Pac's jealousy of BIG, Mobb Deep & Nas and the paranoia he attained after he got shot. If he was some revolutionary artist why did he change? Niggas like Ice Cube didn't change. Cube always mixed social commentary heavily into his albums even if they didn't do well commercially. I'm working off memory here but "Wonda Why They Call You Bitch" was probably the only social commentary he spoke on AEOM. The rest was about him "ridin on his enemies" or fuckin bitches. The nigga did a song with Jodeci man! Lol.

He had the hottest producer in the game (Dre) and a hot #2 MC (Snoop) on the hottest label in the game, of course he was successful! But BEFORE then he wasn't really seen as being THAT dude on the mic. He was known for acting an ass on TV all the time, movies, getting shot & the rape case. All the Black Panthers stuff was background noise to him being the posterboy for ignorant niggas everywhere.

Another goat post

I said earlier in the thread several rappers influenced hip hop more than pac did,These groupies talkin about statues in germany

Again How did he influence HIP HOP?

He didnt nigga was a loudmouth clown who was known for his buffoonish coon antics and controversy and people got him on a pedestal cuz he died its a reason he sold 70 million records after death ,when he was alive son didnt start sellin records until he was gettin arrested,shot,locked up etc

 
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Tupac was not the best mc on death row. Kurupt was better. And if you really listen, Pac even rhymed like daz on some tracks. I will give him this though. On that Makeveli joint he was at his peak, spitting straight fire.
 
Strictly For my Niggaz was pretty much made in the same vein as 2Pacalypse Now which is why I glossed over it. Its another hip-hop album but it still mostly featured social commentary. If you've ever listened to the whole album the hit single "I Get Around" sticks out like a sore thumb, its VERY different that the rest of the album. He hadn't really moved from hip-hop to gangsta rap.

Thug Life Vol 1 had very little impact outside of a couple tracks. Besides it was a group effort, it wasn't a solo 2Pac record it was a side project to get his homies on. Arguably its a gangsta rap album but like I said its a group album. If it IS then he made his first "gangsta rap" album in 1994...3 years after his debut.

Now on to criticisms of me:

I never said Illmatic was financially successful, everybody knows it wasn't. But it was CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED and as an MC that's always the most important impact you want to have. Illmatic was raw, no chick records, no real hype other than the MC was dope as fuck, he sold nothing with that and its still considered the best hip-hop album ever. Record sales don't really mean shit in the long run but how much the label made off a nigga.

"Again if 2pacalypse Now, wasn't on the radar,

why the Vice President of the United States Of

Fucking America Banned His Shit???????"

**It was because of a situation that had nothing to do with 2Pac foreal . A cat claimed a 2pac song made him kill a police officer, of course a politician reacted by trying to get that album banned. The politicians tried getting several albums banned lol... 2Pac wasn't the only one. This controversy also helped boost album sales for 2Pacalypse Now, which we all know controversy creates cash.**

"Strictly 4 My Niggaz= Plat , 3 songs on the bill

board top 100" (movies aren't apart of the discussion we talking strictly music)

It Debuted at #24 which made it more successful that the first album. If your going to talk record sales, the nigga could have at least been #1. Also The Source gave it 2.5 mics....I know that might not mean shit but its funny to see. I'm sure they "re-rated" it later on.

"94'Thug Life Vol. 1 = gold compilation album,

Got some Hood Classics on That."

It was a group album and I couldn't find the chart but I read #42 on Wiki...could be wrong.

He was in prison when Me Against...came out and it debuted at #1.

Its incredibly difficult to find figures that aren't inflated by his death but seeing that album niggas don't even listen to like 2Pacalypse Now & Strictly For My Niggaz are gold & platinum tells me that your using inflated figures. I've read that Strictly....took months to go Gold let alone platinum upon its release.

This is the chart info I found for the albums he made while he was alive:

(1992) 2Pacalypse Now-- #74

(1993) Strictly...--#24

(1994) Thug Life...--#?? (42?)

(1995) Me Against...---#1

(1996) All Eyes...--#1

(1996) Makaveli...--#1

The success of Me Against, All Eyes, & Makaveli can't be denied, he was hot by then. But before that he was "successful" but not THAT dude, like I said before. Being THAT nigga =/= gold or platinum albums. That shit depends on promotion & radio play, not real talent or skills. So the chart info is really only because 2Pac marks love to ramble about his album sales, I personally couldn't care less.
 
Bon scott

Ray Charles

Jimi hendrix

Elton john

Bob Marley

Elvis

Otis Redding

Miles Davis

Jim morrison

John Lennon

James Brown

The Beatles

Michael Jackson

^All have statues,step your knowledge up

that pac statue in atlanta was funded by his mother btw

 
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Tommy bilfiger;4590485 said:
Bon scott

Jimi hendrix

Elton john

Bob Marley

Elvis

Jim morrison

John Lennon

James Brown

The Beatles

Michael Jackson

^All have statues,step your knowledge up

that pac statue in atlanta was funded by his mother btw

proves pac was on another level than kurt cobain

and a city not gonna let u put up a statue if u not the best at what u do no matter who fund it
 
Kurt Kobain has a statue too

I recall pac groupies tryna argue that pac was bigger than michael jackson last year so we know how delusional u people are

And jono bodied this thread funny how pacs albums never debuted at #1 until he started coonin and actin dumb,nigga had to change his whole persona up to get noticed musically

 
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