"when women refuse"

[xxCivicxx]

FWIW - A feminist is different than a misandrist. Just as a black activist is different than a black supremacist. The latter is form of extremism and doesn't want equality, the former however does.

It's clear that some in this thread have a visceral negative reaction to the terms "feminism" and "feminist" so lets for the sake of the argument do away with those terms and use "humanist" like Kai suggested. You do realize as a humanist you'd still advocate the exact same thing a typical feminist(and black activist) would?

This shouldn't become a semantics debate but rather about recognizing a documented history of oppression and how its affects still linger in our society.

No, you wouldn't, which is why many feminists purposefully DON'T use the term humanist, just like someone did earlier in this thread. That would ACTUALLY imply equality, which is not what they fight for

 

[xxCivicxx]

All the men upset in this thread you'd think a woman pulled a pistol out her pussy and started shooting at every penis she spotted.

So @IC men: do you all think you're entitled to whatever pussy you want like the rest of these unstable white boys?

Pfft, ain't nobody doing that but Thailand sex show performers. Only way you could convince a regular chick to learn that kind of pussy control would be if you convinced her it'd make her lose weight while eating chocolate too so she can quit Pilates class. See, I can demean women sarcastically too, I'm just doing it ironically here.

You learn and you earn, you beg, barter and steal in this life to get where you need. That's survival, something men got used to because women took care of the home and the family. Honestly equality is a conceit of human arrogance, you don't see this shit in nature where roles are assigned naturally, not fostered after attending a college class. Females and males share duties throughout nature, some equal and some not. Black Widow spiders and praying mantises aren't looking for alimony. Female seahorses ain't giving a shit about their baby daddy, that's his lookout. Each sex has a role they play out, it's only since we evolved to this higher level of thinking we've presumed superior entitlement beyond our natural functionality as beings on this planet with the rest of the natural world.

The fundamental problem with equality is men and women are not equals, they are similar but different, opposite but alike. There's things men will never do and things women will never do. If anyone is being entitled it is the person who presumes what they have learned in class surpasses what is understood as fundamental natural balance where each sex aids the other, rather than competes against it. There should be cooperation, not competition because nobody wins when we all fight amongst each other.

Thread should have ended here btw

 

[desertrain10]

By the way I agree with those who said men suffer from some harmful double standards, just as I'd agree if some said whites suffer from some double standards. Both are correct.

When marginalized groups fight against oppression, collateral damage happens. The double standards privileged group faces still pales in comparison to what an oppressed group faces. It is what is.

A white person's white privilege outweighs the double standards they suffer from. For an example, they can't use ethnic slurs in public without backlash, but minorities can with little to no backlash. They can't have "all white" entities without it being deemed racist, but minorities can have entities for "only minorities".

As a black male I wish I had the privilege of a white person in our society and if I was female I'd wish I had the privilege of a male in our society(and especially if I was in the middle east).

Thanks to whites, power dynamics are embedded in our society and any society that was victim of European imperialism.

Couldn't agree more

I would also like to add racism and sexism have gone hand in hand in the history of America and blk wmen have had to face this double edged sword dating back to slavery when during the day they were forced to work the fields besides their male counterparts, and at night their bodies raped by their slavemasters as well as his peers

Or we can go back in the 60s, 70s when racist sterilization programs disproportionately targeted blk women

Even today blk woman are 3x times more likely to be incarcerated than their white counterparts. Blk women are disporporationedly impacted with cuts to social programs like SNAP. The wage gap hits blk woman the hardest. And the women in Mississippi who seek an illegal abortion because their is only one abortion clinic will be disproportionately blk teenage girls

With that said, and I'm sure a lot of blk women who like to identify themselves as feminist, womanist, humanist, etc would share the same sentiment, the plight of blk people, particularly blk women, is my primary concern...and I would even argue the successes and failures of blk america hinges on the plight of blk women

 

[Westie]

You know what, you guys have convinced me to change my views. I am now a female chauvinist. Women are clearly better than men.

 

[Westie]

I'm proposing mandatory vasectomies btw. Off to congress. You men need to be governed on the usage of your balls. You make all kinds of fucked up decisions when your penises become erect.

 

[Billy_Poncho]

Why's this thread so long?

 

[Billy_Poncho]

Nvm I see all the women

 

[xxCivicxx]

Black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated then white men. 1/3 of all black men born today will go to prison. Number one crime: non-violent drug offense. Ironic(read: typical) that none of you have mentioned that along with the black women prison statistics. Where's the outcry for that?

 

[desertrain10]

You know what, you guys have convinced me to change my views. I am now a female chauvinist. Women are clearly better than men.

Correct me if im wrong, but from what I read, you believe a woman's place is in the home while the man works and takes on a leadership role in the household, I.e. traditional gender roles

With that said, do you believe that women should be discouraged from excercising free will?

Should women who want to pursue a career fulltime outside the household be discouraged from doing so?

How do you feel about the stigma that follows career driven women who may not necessarily want children/marriage?

No shade or anything, just curious...

 

[desertrain10]

Black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated then white men. 1/3 of all black men born today will go to prison. Number one crime: non-violent drug offense. Ironic(read: typical) that none of you have mentioned that along with the black women prison statistics. Where's the outcry for that?

What? Lol

Naturally the plight of the blk man in america is all we talk about on the IC. I myself as well as others have made multiple threads/posts that have denounced the war on drugs. When the media talks about racism the conversation is centered around issues like institutionalized racial profiling that primarily effect blk men. And historically politicians and academics alike primary focus has been on the plight of the blk man

Regarding my post, the point I was trying to make was how blk women historically have not only had to face the brunt of sexism but we have had to face racism as well...and that's why I didn't post the blk male prison statistic rates

Try again

 

[A$AP_A$TON]

Hopefully this will save some lives.

 

[xxCivicxx]

I'm not getting into this again with you, I've embarrassed you enough imo

Black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated then white men. 1/3 of all black men born today will go to prison. Number one crime: non-violent drug offense. Ironic(read: typical) that none of you have mentioned that along with the black women prison statistics. Where's the outcry for that?

What? Lol

Naturally the plight of the blk man in america is all we talk about on the IC. I myself as well as others have made multiple threads/posts that have denounced the war on drugs. When the media talks about racism the conversation is centered around issues like institutionalized racial profiling that primarily effect blk men. And historically politicians and academics alike primary focus has been on the plight of the blk man

Regarding my post, the point I was trying to make was how blk women historically have not only had to face the brunt of sexism but we have had to face racism as well...and that's why I didn't post the blk male prison statistic rates

Try again

So once again, you're saying that you care more about black women because you think black women have had it harder than black men and that's why you neglected to include the other more harsh statistics involving black men. You literally just did the same thing you always do. I didn't quote your post for a reason, don't quote any more of mine

 

[The Iconoclast]

I've said it before I'll say it again, feminism is a form of sexism.

An incorrect generalization. You're allowing the vocal minority(misandrist) to influence how you feel about the rest of the group. That's like allowing the vocal minority (black supremacists) to influence how you feel about black activists.

When an activist group fights for equality, so that an oppressed group's level of autonomy matches the hegemony, that doesn't mean what they're doing is akin to the oppression they're facing. You've also invoked a false equivalency fallacy.

You could also apply your 'logic' to black activists fighting oppression from whites. Are they racist? Is that another form of racism? Should marginalized groups like blacks and women lay down and not fight for against the systemic oppression?

Feminism is a white woman movement started by white women specifically against white men/women. Black women who have embraced feminism chose to take the very worst gripes that white women have/had against white men and superimpose them onto black men, thus furthering the implosion the black family. Black men are in no position to oppress anyone anywhere, except for maybe in Africa(which has a whole different set of white supremacy/black oppression problems within it). The type of feminism that black women practice is usually pretty sexist, as you can see in this thread

These outbreaks are just symptomatic of a patriarchal society that perpetuates the male sense of entitlement regarding women. We're conditioned at an early age to objectify women - you notice how the hero or protagonist usually "wins the girl" or "gains her affection after a heroic deed" at the end. It's a primary reason, upon entering adulthood, we feel after a certain amount of positive actions/gestures during a prolonged period of time, we're entitled to gain a woman's affection - with little to no consideration about her level of attraction toward us, if we measure up to her preference or if she'd just rather be friends.

America is not a Patriarchal society.

America does indeed have a patriarchal society. This is indisputable and something that the majority of the academic community agree upon, backed by research.

Our patriarchal society was established and perpetuated by the white hegemony. To deny this is to deny racism because both were created from this pervasive construct.

Any college course involving power dynamics, critical race theory, gender studies or intersectionality would tell you this.

The more I read your posts, the more I'm convinced that you don't really know what you're talking about. The richest 1% in America may or may not live in a patriarchy, but the rest of America definitely doesn't operate under one. I'm sure you know what the word "facade" means. Something like there being more men than women in Congress doesn't directly imply patriarchy for a number of reasons. I've posted about feminism way too much on this forum already so I'm not gonna repost facts again, but feel free to check my post history if you feel like educating yourself

Absolutely everything you've just said was incorrect and contains the factual accuracy of someone that isn't educated nor aware of the rudimentary principles of power dynamics, which means quite frankly, you're not fit to debate me or many others in this thread, about this topic.

So I'm going to make this quick and address your fallacious and incorrect notions that would get laughed at by those in academic circles.

Patriarchy does exist, just as systemic racism exists, just as the fact that because the US was founded upon Judeo-Christian concepts it initially made it harder for 'other' religions to assimilate into society until law reform. To deny these facts is ludicrous and severely ignorant. It's the type of rhetoric a white supremacist would spout.

Alright, I'm done.

Does anyone see the unintentional hilarity of this dude using "may or may not" in such a declarative post. This man said he could educate me if I read some of his past posts haha. Here's a man doesn't have conceptual understanding about the fabric of our society, that thinks he is capable of educating someone like me.

Dude.... actually ....said:

"The richest 1% in America may or may not "[/color=red]

LMAO.

Nah, but seriously, I'll quit patronizing for a moment and just say this. I have a personal policy of not debating with trolls or people not capable of keeping up with an established level of discourse. Thanks for the laugh though, fam.

 

[The Iconoclast]

I'm not getting into this again with you, I've embarrassed you enough imo

Black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated then white men. 1/3 of all black men born today will go to prison. Number one crime: non-violent drug offense. Ironic(read: typical) that none of you have mentioned that along with the black women prison statistics. Where's the outcry for that?

Haha dude legit thinks he embarrassed desertrain10 in anyone's eyes but his own.

 

[xxCivicxx]

I've said it before I'll say it again, feminism is a form of sexism.

An incorrect generalization. You're allowing the vocal minority(misandrist) to influence how you feel about the rest of the group. That's like allowing the vocal minority (black supremacists) to influence how you feel about black activists.

When an activist group fights for equality, so that an oppressed group's level of autonomy matches the hegemony, that doesn't mean what they're doing is akin to the oppression they're facing. You've also invoked a false equivalency fallacy.

You could also apply your 'logic' to black activists fighting oppression from whites. Are they racist? Is that another form of racism? Should marginalized groups like blacks and women lay down and not fight for against the systemic oppression?

Feminism is a white woman movement started by white women specifically against white men/women. Black women who have embraced feminism chose to take the very worst gripes that white women have/had against white men and superimpose them onto black men, thus furthering the implosion the black family. Black men are in no position to oppress anyone anywhere, except for maybe in Africa(which has a whole different set of white supremacy/black oppression problems within it). The type of feminism that black women practice is usually pretty sexist, as you can see in this thread

These outbreaks are just symptomatic of a patriarchal society that perpetuates the male sense of entitlement regarding women. We're conditioned at an early age to objectify women - you notice how the hero or protagonist usually "wins the girl" or "gains her affection after a heroic deed" at the end. It's a primary reason, upon entering adulthood, we feel after a certain amount of positive actions/gestures during a prolonged period of time, we're entitled to gain a woman's affection - with little to no consideration about her level of attraction toward us, if we measure up to her preference or if she'd just rather be friends.

America is not a Patriarchal society.

America does indeed have a patriarchal society. This is indisputable and something that the majority of the academic community agree upon, backed by research.

Our patriarchal society was established and perpetuated by the white hegemony. To deny this is to deny racism because both were created from this pervasive construct.

Any college course involving power dynamics, critical race theory, gender studies or intersectionality would tell you this.

The more I read your posts, the more I'm convinced that you don't really know what you're talking about. The richest 1% in America may or may not live in a patriarchy, but the rest of America definitely doesn't operate under one. I'm sure you know what the word "facade" means. Something like there being more men than women in Congress doesn't directly imply patriarchy for a number of reasons. I've posted about feminism way too much on this forum already so I'm not gonna repost facts again, but feel free to check my post history if you feel like educating yourself

Absolutely everything you've just said was incorrect and contains the factual accuracy of someone that isn't educated nor aware of the rudimentary principles of power dynamics, which means quite frankly, you're not fit to debate me or many others in this thread, about this topic.

So I'm going to make this quick and address your fallacious and incorrect notions that would get laughed at by those in academic circles.

Patriarchy does exist, just as systemic racism exists, just as the fact that because the US was founded upon Judeo-Christian concepts it initially made it harder for 'other' religions to assimilate into society until law reform. To deny these facts is ludicrous and severely ignorant. It's the type of rhetoric a white supremacist would spout.

Alright, I'm done.

Does anyone see the unintentional hilarity of this dude using "may or may not" in such a declarative post. This man said he could educate me if I read some of his past posts haha. Here's a man doesn't have conceptual understanding about the fabric of our society, that thinks he is capable of educating someone like me.

Dude.... actually ....said:

"The richest 1% in America may or may not "[/color=red]



[iappy_medium.gif[/img]

LMAO.

Nah, but seriously, I'll quit patronizing for a moment and just say this. I have a personal policy of not debating with trolls or people not capable of keeping up with an established level of discourse. Thanks for the laugh though, fam.

You just said a bunch of nothing bruh. I can tell you think you're smart because you can regurgitate(or copy/paste) rhetoric from whatever database you pull from. Are $4 words supposed to scare me?

Patriarchy as an entity exists. Americans don't live in a functioning patriarchy.

I've debated every pseudo-intellectual on here when it comes to feminism and everything that surrounds it. You're the first to concede immediately. I find that both interesting and sad. You seem to talk a big game on these forums.

Once again, my post history is always here if you ever feel the need to educate yourself

 

[The Iconoclast]

Black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated then white men. 1/3 of all black men born today will go to prison. Number one crime: non-violent drug offense. Ironic(read: typical) that none of you have mentioned that along with the black women prison statistics. Where's the outcry for that?

Because nobody never talks about the criminalization of black men ...ever? Right. Literally no one on a predominately black male forum brings this up? Right. You're the first and only poster who has posted this. We should pay more attention to this brand new information than adhere to this lowly topic about the inferior gender.

Is that what you're saying lol?

That isn't even pertinent to this thread and is a non-sequitur fallacy by the way. Keep it coming fam, I'm enjoying this entertainment.

 

[xxCivicxx]

Black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated then white men. 1/3 of all black men born today will go to prison. Number one crime: non-violent drug offense. Ironic(read: typical) that none of you have mentioned that along with the black women prison statistics. Where's the outcry for that?

Because nobody never talks about the criminalization of black men ...ever? Right. Literally no one on a predominately black male forum brings this up? Right. You're the first and only poster who has posted this. We should pay more attention to this brand new information than adhere to this lowly topic about the inferior gender.

Is that what you're saying lol?

That isn't even pertinent to this thread and is a non-sequitur fallacy by the way. Keep it coming fam, I'm enjoying this entertainment.

No one outside of predominantly black-male populated forums speaks on black male problems. There are thousands and thousands of websites/forums about women's issues, black or otherwise.

That was flimsy, do better.

 

[The Iconoclast]

I've said it before I'll say it again, feminism is a form of sexism.

An incorrect generalization. You're allowing the vocal minority(misandrist) to influence how you feel about the rest of the group. That's like allowing the vocal minority (black supremacists) to influence how you feel about black activists.

When an activist group fights for equality, so that an oppressed group's level of autonomy matches the hegemony, that doesn't mean what they're doing is akin to the oppression they're facing. You've also invoked a false equivalency fallacy.

You could also apply your 'logic' to black activists fighting oppression from whites. Are they racist? Is that another form of racism? Should marginalized groups like blacks and women lay down and not fight for against the systemic oppression?

Feminism is a white woman movement started by white women specifically against white men/women. Black women who have embraced feminism chose to take the very worst gripes that white women have/had against white men and superimpose them onto black men, thus furthering the implosion the black family. Black men are in no position to oppress anyone anywhere, except for maybe in Africa(which has a whole different set of white supremacy/black oppression problems within it). The type of feminism that black women practice is usually pretty sexist, as you can see in this thread

These outbreaks are just symptomatic of a patriarchal society that perpetuates the male sense of entitlement regarding women. We're conditioned at an early age to objectify women - you notice how the hero or protagonist usually "wins the girl" or "gains her affection after a heroic deed" at the end. It's a primary reason, upon entering adulthood, we feel after a certain amount of positive actions/gestures during a prolonged period of time, we're entitled to gain a woman's affection - with little to no consideration about her level of attraction toward us, if we measure up to her preference or if she'd just rather be friends.

America is not a Patriarchal society.

America does indeed have a patriarchal society. This is indisputable and something that the majority of the academic community agree upon, backed by research.

Our patriarchal society was established and perpetuated by the white hegemony. To deny this is to deny racism because both were created from this pervasive construct.

Any college course involving power dynamics, critical race theory, gender studies or intersectionality would tell you this.

The more I read your posts, the more I'm convinced that you don't really know what you're talking about. The richest 1% in America may or may not live in a patriarchy, but the rest of America definitely doesn't operate under one. I'm sure you know what the word "facade" means. Something like there being more men than women in Congress doesn't directly imply patriarchy for a number of reasons. I've posted about feminism way too much on this forum already so I'm not gonna repost facts again, but feel free to check my post history if you feel like educating yourself

Absolutely everything you've just said was incorrect and contains the factual accuracy of someone that isn't educated nor aware of the rudimentary principles of power dynamics, which means quite frankly, you're not fit to debate me or many others in this thread, about this topic.

So I'm going to make this quick and address your fallacious and incorrect notions that would get laughed at by those in academic circles.

Patriarchy does exist, just as systemic racism exists, just as the fact that because the US was founded upon Judeo-Christian concepts it initially made it harder for 'other' religions to assimilate into society until law reform. To deny these facts is ludicrous and severely ignorant. It's the type of rhetoric a white supremacist would spout.

Alright, I'm done.

Does anyone see the unintentional hilarity of this dude using "may or may not" in such a declarative post. This man said he could educate me if I read some of his past posts haha. Here's a man doesn't have conceptual understanding about the fabric of our society, that thinks he is capable of educating someone like me.

Dude.... actually ....said:

"The richest 1% in America may or may not "[/color=red]



[iappy_medium.gif[/img]

LMAO.

Nah, but seriously, I'll quit patronizing for a moment and just say this. I have a personal policy of not debating with trolls or people not capable of keeping up with an established level of discourse. Thanks for the laugh though, fam.

You just said a bunch of nothing bruh. I can tell you think you're smart because you can regurgitate(or copy/paste) rhetoric from whatever database you pull from. Are $4 supposed to scare me?

Patriarchy as an entity exists. Americans don't live in a functioning patriarchy.

I've debated ever pseudo-intellectual on here when it comes to feminism and everything that surrounds it. You're the first to concede immediately. I find that both interesting and sad. You seem to talk a big game on these forums.

Once again, my post history is always here if you ever feel the need to educate yourself

So I must have a database, is that right lol? I sense you really don't want to debate me. You attempted an act of grandstanding that you hoped me and a few others in this thread wouldn't call you out on.

Listen, I've seen many an uninformed idiot in my day, overrate their knowledge even when they aren't educated like yourself, but the difference is I could tell they at least truly felt they were right, and they eventually attempted to back up their drivel by finding some sources that tangentially touched on their viewpoints. It didn't prove their assertion and they knew it but at least they tried.

If you're really as confident in your ignorance and lack of knowledge as you say are, you'd attempt to cite sources to display any factual errors in my posts or attempt to call me out on incoherent and flawed logic by pointing out any fallacies that I've invoked. This is my last time responding until you prove you're capable of a retort and not just conjecture laced with parochialism and obscurantism.

 

[desertrain10]

I'm not getting into this again with you, I've embarrassed you enough imo

Black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated then white men. 1/3 of all black men born today will go to prison. Number one crime: non-violent drug offense. Ironic(read: typical) that none of you have mentioned that along with the black women prison statistics. Where's the outcry for that?

What? Lol

Naturally the plight of the blk man in america is all we talk about on the IC. I myself as well as others have made multiple threads/posts that have denounced the war on drugs. When the media talks about racism the conversation is centered around issues like institutionalized racial profiling that primarily effect blk men. And historically politicians and academics alike primary focus has been on the plight of the blk man

Regarding my post, the point I was trying to make was how blk women historically have not only had to face the brunt of sexism but we have had to face racism as well...and that's why I didn't post the blk male prison statistic rates

Try again

So once again, you're saying that you care more about black women because you think black women have had it harder than black men and that's why you neglected to include the other more harsh statistics involving black men. You literally just did the same thing you always do. I didn't quote your post for a reason, don't quote any more of mine

I'm a black woman so while at times my focus may shift to the issues that effect me and other blk women, I ride for my father, brothers, male friends, etc with equal passion and furor

Stop with the baseless assumptions

And stop trying to derail the discussion

No one said blk had it worst than blk men, just that blk women face the unique challenge of being born a double minority

 

[LUClEN]

Just because women have less power in Eastern countries does not mean there is no patriarchy in the US