Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman Discussion Thread...

[2stepz_ahead]

so if im being followed, i can turn an shoot if i feel threatened and i dont have to retreat because i felt harm was on the horizon.

i don't think the law says "i'm being followed and i was concerned about it" is justification for shooting someone.

but if i turn an hit someone instead of shooting them...then i should be shot because im attacking them

why are you turning around and hitting them? that's my question.

cmon jank....try to follow

its because i felt threatened at someone following me and looking dangerous. so i turned an face them and they questioned me an i felt my life was in danger so i defended myself.

 

[janklow]

cmon jank....try to follow

its because i felt threatened at someone following me and looking dangerous. so i turned an face them and they questioned me an i felt my life was in danger so i defended myself.

i think this is less about me following and more about you reaching to make this work.

you're saying you punched someone because their QUESTIONING made you feel your life was in danger? this is a far less reasonable standard than what we're discussing. frankly, it's being forced, because while the average person can understand shooting someone because they were kicking your ass (IF that is what happened, of course), they're not likely to agree you can kick their ass because they questioned you. and you know this.

 

[2stepz_ahead]

cmon jank....try to follow

its because i felt threatened at someone following me and looking dangerous. so i turned an face them and they questioned me an i felt my life was in danger so i defended myself.

i think this is less about me following and more about you reaching to make this work.

you're saying you punched someone because their QUESTIONING made you feel your life was in danger? this is a far less reasonable standard than what we're discussing. frankly, it's being forced, because while the average person can understand shooting someone because they were kicking your ass (IF that is what happened, of course), they're not likely to agree you can kick their ass because they questioned you. and you know this.

i wasnt saying i did it per se...aww. man.cmon

anyway....i can understand someone getting they ass kicked and just getting they ass kicked. to pull a gun is weakness. too many people pull guns today over nothing. now if someone is getting jumped maybe i can understand better. but i cant understand shooting someone while getting that ass beat. and if your head is banging against the concrete....can you really pull a gun and shoot?

lets keep it real....i got into a fight once an got my chin tapped and was dazed. the nigga stumbled me....i could not think an my concentration was on trying to focus. so you mean to tell me someone banging you head on the ground you can still think enough to grab a gun an shoot? fukk no, cause you cant think and are dazed and not focused on a gun nor could you reach it if they are on top of you.

now using what you said. more people would agree that a fight is most likely going to break out if someone is following you an asking you who you are before someone says i'll kill a nigga if he beats my ass.

your thinking is flawed

 

[Melanin_Enriched]

Nothing is flawed with his logic, it's just that you're ignoring how the law works. The court couldn't give a fuck less about your opinion on pulling the gun when being attacked is a display of weakness. And there's a huge difference between your jaw being punched by someone standing that can shift their weight into and your face being plumbed on the ground.

 

[2stepz_ahead]

so if i get stole i can get on the ground then fire?

 

[Melanin_Enriched]

I'm not sure how you can get "stole" tbh.

 

[janklow]

your thinking is flawed

frankly, this is BS. i'm the one saying they're both partially at fault and we need a fair trial and scientific evidence. you're arguing for something much for definitive based on... well... anyway:

i wasnt saying i did it per se...aww. man.cmon

don't know what this means, man, i THOUGHT we were discussing a hypothetical scenario.

anyway....i can understand someone getting they ass kicked and just getting they ass kicked. to pull a gun is weakness. too many people pull guns today over nothing. now if someone is getting jumped maybe i can understand better. but i cant understand shooting someone while getting that ass beat. and if your head is banging against the concrete....can you really pull a gun and shoot?

look, if you pull a gun because someone's kicking your ass, that's not NOTHING. it might not be warranted, but somehow i suspect a lot of guys out there aren't well-versed in getting punched in the face and where that's going to lead things.

lets keep it real....i got into a fight once an got my chin tapped and was dazed. the nigga stumbled me....i could not think an my concentration was on trying to focus. so you mean to tell me someone banging you head on the ground you can still think enough to grab a gun an shoot? fukk no, cause you cant think and are dazed and not focused on a gun nor could you reach it if they are on top of you.

well, look, if Zimmerman shot Trayvon well before he got hit or his head banged on the ground, then it wouldn't be justified, right? so hopefully we can confirm that one way or another. a fair trial doesn't mean Zimmerman gets off if he deserves to do serious time.

now using what you said. more people would agree that a fight is most likely going to break out if someone is following you an asking you who you are before someone says i'll kill a nigga if he beats my ass.

what i am saying is that most people wouldn't agree a fight should break out because someone is following you and asking who you are. it doesn't mean the guy following you isn't out of line.

 

[Plutarch]

that's funny. I accidentally and randomly stumbled upon some site that was trying to say that Trayvon was a troubled delinquint, and that this fact/idea needs to be fully acknowledged for the trial. They had these pics of him, his pops, and his moms, which I've never seen before:

Thought they were interesting. Regardless, Zimmerman deserves a fair trial without the media bias, but as far as I know, I don't see him getting hit with a hard sentence. He's an idiot, and he instigated the shit unecessarily, but he seems to have acted in self-defense even if it was rash, so how hard can you hit him?

is my eye's playing tricks on me, did this negro just said Zimmerman acted in self defense????

Didn’t Zimmerman, in order to defend himself, shoot Martin after they got into a physical altercation? It also seems that Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked. Martin bloodied him up a bit. I’m only saying this because this is what has been reported. If this is wrong, feel free to let me know, but please don’t tell me this is wrong simply because you’re biased. It’s clear you that you don’t like Zimmerman, but that’s not a good enough reason to solely justify what you think is true about this issue. I don’t like Zimmerman or what he did either, and I think that Martin’s death was tragic, but I’m not going to let that affect what is true and what is right, and I’m not going to pretend that I know for sure that Zimmerman is a raging racist who was determined to kill Martin from the jump and that Martin was completely innocent in all of this.

And for the record, I posted those pics not in support of Zimmerman. I just posted them because they were interesting and informative (not informative in the sense that they prove that Martin is necessarily a thug, but informative in the sense that they represent a current debate and a different side about the issue).

 

[2stepz_ahead]

all i know is i lost plenty of fights. my dad raised me well enough to know...sometime you are going to get your ass kicked. just take it like a man was the phrase.

but a no point will i ever feel the need to shoot someone. even when i got jumped. also when i know i made the situation escalate...i am more inclined to take whats dished out because my dumb ass misjudged what was about to happen.

yea..a few times i thought i was going to die...but i learned to fight better and leave people the fukk alone.

the signal this is sending is :

you can follow people if they look suspicious to you.(who defines suspicion?)

you can question anyone(which will put anyone on the defensive because you don't know this person)

if you are losing a fight you can shoot someone and claim defense(bitchmade dudes will run crazy with this one)

im just saying

 

[unspoken_respect]

I think its safe to say that guns give people a false sense of courage. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun he most likely would have stayed in the car like he was told. If he's that brazen to ignore the dispatches orders to stay in the car then follow someone he doesn't know, its hard for me to believe his ”I'm the victim” act.

Everything about this is fishy.

 

[2stepz_ahead]

I think its safe to say that guns give people a false sense of courage. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun he most likely would have stayed in the car like he was told. If he's that brazen to ignore the dispatches orders to stay in the car then follow someone he doesn't know, its hard for me to believe his ”I'm the victim” act.

Everything about this is fishy.

I think its safe to say that guns give people a false sense of courage. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun he most likely would have stayed in the car like he was told. If he's that brazen to ignore the dispatches orders to stay in the car then follow someone he doesn't know, its hard for me to believe his ”I'm the victim” act.

Everything about this is fishy.

exactly.

does he carry the gun all the time or did he put it on his hip right before he got out the truck

 

[janklow]

all i know is i lost plenty of fights. my dad raised me well enough to know...sometime you are going to get your ass kicked. just take it like a man was the phrase.

no dispute there.

yea..a few times i thought i was going to die...but i learned to fight better and leave people the fukk alone.

and that's worked for you. all i am saying is that IF Zimmerman was really getting his ass whipped to the point where he thought he was going to die -and to be fair, that's not a certainty- then he's probably justified in shooting Trayvon. also doesn't mean he didn't contribute to getting his ass whipped by making poor decisions, of course.

the signal this is sending is :

you can follow people if they look suspicious to you.(who defines suspicion?)

you can question anyone(which will put anyone on the defensive because you don't know this person)

if you are losing a fight you can shoot someone and claim defense(bitchmade dudes will run crazy with this one)

i think you're reaching with some of this. i think most people (maybe i am wrong) who Zimmerman was justified in shooting STILL would agree the following was a poor decision. and hell, i don't see the issue with questioning someone you don't know should you see them in your neighborhood.

but ultimately, the thing is, this is why you have to take this stuff on a case-by-case basis.

does he carry the gun all the time or did he put it on his hip right before he got out the truck

the kind of gun we're talking about? he probably carries it most any time he can

 

[2stepz_ahead]

so if he carries the gun most of the time yet it he got it to fend off stray dogs...kinda still makes him look like a bitch.

also i travel alot an i am always somewhere outside of my local area. people dont question me. they look like i dont know him but they dont question. because they have to right to question me. think about it....they ask me who i am and i ask them who they are. if i dont answer i may be looked at as suspicious. if they dont answer they are suspicious in my eyes.it a big ass circle that can be stopped by calling the police an letting them handle it. but whos to say im not visiting someone? black people dont know white people that live in white hoods? now your taking police power away from a potential real crime because i wore a hoodie while trying to visit my white friends.

yea..a few times i thought i was going to die...but i learned to fight better and leave people the fukk alone.

and that's worked for you. all i am saying is that IF Zimmerman was really getting his ass whipped to the point where he thought he was going to die -and to be fair, that's not a certainty- then he's probably justified in shooting Trayvon. also doesn't mean he didn't contribute to getting his ass whipped by making poor decisions, of course.

this is all i was trying to say. you cant expect a 17 year to make a proper decision. but i would expect more from an adult.

 

[janklow]

so if he carries the gun most of the time yet it he got it to fend off stray dogs...kinda still makes him look like a bitch.

i'm just saying given the gun he has, it's something he can carry all the time comfortably, so he probably does. no idea if that's actually the case.

also i travel alot an i am always somewhere outside of my local area. people dont question me. they look like i dont know him but they dont question. because they have to right to question me. think about it....they ask me who i am and i ask them who they are. if i dont answer i may be looked at as suspicious. if they dont answer they are suspicious in my eyes.it a big ass circle that can be stopped by calling the police an letting them handle it. but whos to say im not visiting someone? black people dont know white people that live in white hoods? now your taking police power away from a potential real crime because i wore a hoodie while trying to visit my white friends.

i'm not saying people should be grilling everyone and whatever else is "taking police power away from a potential real crime." what i'm saying is that if someone sees you walking around in their neighborhood and they don't know who you are, i think asking them "hey, who are you" is not some horrible offense. is it possible they're doing it for some bullshit and/or racist reason? sure.

this is all i was trying to say. you cant expect a 17 year to make a proper decision. but i would expect more from an adult.

man, you know from the jump that i have been saying my personal opinion, absent anything new being developed, is that this was a tragic circumstance where both guys likely did something foolish and the results happened as i happened.

 

[pakistan786]

Nice sharing

 

[BelovedAfeni]

best thread here

 

[jono]

I'm tired of all the posturing and the smearing the only relevant questions are:

1. Why did Zimmerman leave his car to begin with?

2. How did the altercation begin?

3. Did Zimmerman have a weapon when he approached Martin or did he retreat to get the weapon?

4. What is considered "self-defense"?

The answer to question 2 is answered through Zimmerman's tape where he openly told someone he was going to approach Martin. After that it gets fuzzy, apparently there was some sort of fight and Zimmerman got injured in it (nothing looked life threatening by the way) but the fight began.

Now question 3 is double edge: if he didn't have a gun that means he had to go to his car to get it, which means he could have escaped and wasn't in imminent danger, if he was armed when he approached Martin then things get crucial. Because then the prosecution could say that Martin saw the gun thought he was about to be robbed, threatened or assaulted and attacked or he didn't see the gun and Zimmerman baited Martin into a physical fight with intentions on killing him.

Zimmerman has an advantage because he's alive for starters and history is written by those who survive and two because the 2 year smear campaign has worked to create reasonable doubt even in the mind of most objective people.

The biggest problem with Zimmerman's case is that its almost 100% blame Trayvon. Even though he's the pursuer who got out his car to confront Trayvon, he had the audacity to claim some sort of legal right to question a suspect when he doesn't have those abilities and his defense is "I thought he was my age" which means nothing because he shouldn't have pursued and confronted anyone for any reason to begin with.

All this is without adding witness testimony, which will probably be sketchy because it was dark and late. Zimmerman's camp has lied an awful lot during the opening phases of this process and Trayvon's girlfriend was also reported to be lying about something. So all this being taken into account will be interesting theater.

In my opinion, Zimmerman will walk because the doubt exists. If he walks because of the "stand your ground" law that will be tragic but ultimately at trial I don't believe Zimmerman will be convicted anyway. Prepare to strike another one for white privilege...*cue Bugs Bunny gif*

 

[janklow]

The answer to question 2 is answered through Zimmerman's tape where he openly told someone he was going to approach Martin. After that it gets fuzzy, apparently there was some sort of fight and Zimmerman got injured in it (nothing looked life threatening by the way) but the fight began.

it's really more correct to call it fuzzy because we really have no idea what started the altercation. the actual problem here is that people are confusing their distaste for what Zimmerman did with him being responsible for starting any fight that ensued.

Now question 3 is double edge: if he didn't have a gun that means he had to go to his car to get it, which means he could have escaped and wasn't in imminent danger, if he was armed when he approached Martin then things get crucial.

oh, he absolutely had to go get the gun, but Florida also doesn't require him to attempt to escape like that.

In my opinion, Zimmerman will walk because the doubt exists. If he walks because of the "stand your ground" law that will be tragic but ultimately at trial I don't believe Zimmerman will be convicted anyway.

ultimately the problem is that if he's not convicted for legitimate reasons, it's going to be presented as "ge got off because of RACISM" no matter what

 

[Plutarch]

I'm trying to keep up with the story, but apparently Zimmerman's trial begins next month:

Prosecutors don't want trial to be about Trayvon Martin

Published May 14, 2013

Associated Press

April 30: George Zimmerman, defendant in the killing of Trayvon Martin, arrives with his attorney MarkO'Mara, right, for a pre-trial hearing. (AP Photo/Orlando Sentinel)

ORLANDO, Fla. – Attorneys prosecuting a former neighborhood watch volunteer in Florida want to make sure George Zimmerman's trial isn't about any wrongdoing by the teen he fatally shot last year.

Florida prosecutors filed motions made public Monday asking a judge to prevent Zimmerman's attorneys from introducing any evidence about whether Trayvon Martin had ever been suspended from school, smoked marijuana, been in a fight or worn fake gold teeth. Prosecutors also want to keep out of the trial any social media screen names Martin used, the contents of his text messages and his school records.

Prosecutors say such information is irrelevant.

Zimmerman is set to go on trial next month for second-degree murder. He is pleading not guilty and says he fatally shot Martin out of self-defense during a confrontation last year.

 

[Plutarch]

Came across this old story a few weeks ago. Hopefully, black folk won't act this stupid if/when Zimmerman gets a slap on the wrist.