-Vincenzo-
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apocalyptica;4215864 said:
Is this the FOX NEWS logo in the lower left corner bro?
fiat_money
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That's just local news though.
-Vincenzo-
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fiat_money;4216090 said:
being beaten and being attacked is not the same fiat and that is crucial in this case. who was the assailant? it is beyond doubt that Zimmermann has killed Martin, to avoid prosecution he claims self-defense:
If Zimmermann claims self-defense, it is up to him to prove beyond doubt that the preconditions for a self-defense action were given. Which could mean in specific, he has to prove Martin attacked him and not the other way around. Prosecuters dont have to prove that it was not self-defense, for a self-defense claim the defendant carrys the burden of proof.
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fiat_money
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Not in Florida, with the "stand your ground" law; they can't even legally arrest him unless they have something suggesting the use of force was unlawful.-Vincenzo-;4216860 said:
If the burden of proof was on him, they could've arrested him on the spot; and waited to try his claim of self-defense in court.
Be it beaten or attacked, if either was witnessed as being administered by Treyvon to Zimmerman, it would help Zimmerman's case.
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fiat_money;4216873 said:
But wait isn't "force," as you so stated, w/ a deadly weapon--registered or otherwise--already unlawful to begin with? Seeing that he wasn't in his home or even in front of his home at the time the burden of proving that the force used w/ a deadly weapon was indeed "self-defense" is left upon him.
No one saw the fight begin. The few witnesses that did see the actual fight didn't come along until after the fight was already underway. All the known facts prior to fight insinuate that Mr. Zimmerman actually instigated the confrontation in which case Trayvon Martin would have been the one standing his ground.
In the end these are all very valid points that leave behind far too many uncertainties... meaning the police had no grounds to let Zimmerman walk following the incident. It is not the police department's duty to interpret laws such as stand your ground. That is the job of lawyers, a judge & jury.
If you have a dead body the shooter should be arrested unless all the evidence is concrete (which in this case it was not). If the person is arrested, posts bail & is then free until their trial date then we would be having a completely different discussion. Unfortunately the officers in this instance did not properly fulfill their duties, thus giving us the shit storm we have now.
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-Vincenzo-
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fiat_money;4216873 said:
okay, but he still has to prove the force was reasonable.
in other news, here is the initial police report not mentioning any blood stains on zimmermann's clothing:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf
Any trained police officer mentiones something like that. How do you shoot someone who is sitting on top of you punching you but dont have any blood stains on your clothing?
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fiat_money
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A contact shot through thick cloth (hoodie) doesn't necessarily mean there will be noticeable blood on the shooter, especially if Treyvon rolled off of Zimmerman after being shot.-Vincenzo-;4216915 said:
lion_heart
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matt-;4216802 said:
How does Jenna 6 even apply to this situation? And spare me that Duke lacrosse bullshit especially when the list is fucking long of white people who have blamed black people for crimes in which they or someone close to them actually committed. So you want to deal with facts then lets deal with them. Trayvon was minding his own fucking business FACT, Zimmerman called the police becuz Trayvon was a black male wearing a hoodie in a gated community FACT, Zimmerman kept following Trayvon when the police specifically told him not too FACT, Zimmerman after an altercation with Trayvon shot that young man DEAD FACT.
lion_heart said:
why do you bring up the gated community and "black" male part when it is clear that 1. the neighborhood had ALMOST a majority of blacks living in it (49% i believe). and 2. its clear Zimmerman is not racist, or else he wouldnt have spent time tutoring blacks, among other minorities as well. and what about the other black males he found that he called the police on.. he never shot any of those.
to your other points..its not illegal to do something other than what a 911 dispatcher says. not to my knowledge anyway. and your last point means nothing if Zimmerman felt he was in danger of dying, which.. seems pretty likely if someone is on top of you, bloodying you, etc.
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