To those who believe in the power of prayer, does god or the heavens keep a waiting list?

[kingblaze84]

@zzombie

Even if that list isn't 100% correct, there are still many similarities between Horus (who came first) and the story of Jesus. I can mention books and religious scholar articles that can break down how the powers of Jesus and his "stories" were already seen in Horus 5000 years ago, but there's too many to mention.

My point is that you can ridicule other gods but OTHER GODS and the stories behind them are the ones who helped form and influence the story of the god you believe in. Don't act like the Bible god is the only influential "god" around, you got nothing to back that up with.

 

[kingblaze84]

Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.

 

[zzombie]

Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.

No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .

 

[zzombie]

@zzombie

Even if that list isn't 100% correct, there are still many similarities between Horus (who came first) and the story of Jesus. I can mention books and religious scholar articles that can break down how the powers of Jesus and his "stories" were already seen in Horus 5000 years ago, but there's too many to mention.

My point is that you can ridicule other gods but OTHER GODS and the stories behind them are the ones who helped form and influence the story of the god you believe in. Don't act like the Bible god is the only influential "god" around, you got nothing to back that up with.

There are really almost no similarities the whole theory is based on conjecture logical fallacies.

 

[zzombie]

Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.

AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago shit if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.

first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events

 

[kingblaze84]

Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.

No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .

Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

 

[kingblaze84]

Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.

AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago shit if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.

first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events

Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.

 

[zzombie]

Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.

No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .

Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.

The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other

way around.

Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic

"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."

 

[zzombie]

Now look, we don't have any persian text or wall carvings to prove that zoroastorianism was older all the scholars are are doing is drawing parallels but since judaism we know for a fact is older that the zoroastiriaism we have, it is more sensible to think that judaism influenced them and not the other way around except in that the jews were actually strengthened in monotheism.

 

[zzombie]

Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.

AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago shit if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.

first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events

Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.

To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this god in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.

in most places on earth today if you mention GOD to someone they are automatically going to think of the God of abraham and that's pretty impressive

 

[kingblaze84]

Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.

AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago shit if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.

first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events

Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.

To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this god in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.

in most places on earth today if you mention GOD to someone they are automatically going to think of the God of abraham and that's pretty impressive

The Abrahamic god isn't ruling humanity though, I don't see it in Norway or Sweden where most people are non-religious. It's not seen in China or North Korea where the government is officially atheist. Don't see it in Iraq where thousands of Christians were killed off or enslaved, is this the ruling of humanity I'm supposed to be impressed with?

People throughout the world have different ideas on who or what god is, when I think of "god", I think of all the thousands of gods that have supposedly existed or exist out there. There is no one god, people throughout the world pray to all kinds of different gods, Jews only make up 1 percent of the world and it's questionable if Muslims even worship the same god as Christians do. So no, I'm not really impressed with the Abrahamic god lol

 

[kingblaze84]

Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.

No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .

Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.

The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other

way around.

Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic

"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."

There are different theories on the true origins of Zoroastrianism but it is very possible Zoroaster incorporated older ideas into the religion he made popular, Zoroastrianism, as most scholars agree Zoroastrianism was around before 2nd temple Judaism (the period which created Hebrew canon).

I do understand some scholars disagree with that, but it's still very interesting that most scholars agree Zoroastrianism in SOME FORM is older then the Judaism we know of now. Even more interesting is that the same article you mentioned admits most Jewish scholars agree Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism as we know it now. Why do you think most Jewish scholars believe Zoroastrinism influenced Judaism......?

 

[zzombie]

Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.

No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .

Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.

The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other

way around.

Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic

"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."

There are different theories on the true origins of Zoroastrianism but it is very possible Zoroaster incorporated older ideas into the religion he made popular, Zoroastrianism, as most scholars agree Zoroastrianism was around before 2nd temple Judaism (the period which created Hebrew canon).

I do understand some scholars disagree with that, but it's still very interesting that most scholars agree Zoroastrianism in SOME FORM is older then the Judaism we know of now. Even more interesting is that the same article you mentioned admits most Jewish scholars agree Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism as we know it now. Why do you think most Jewish scholars believe Zoroastrinism influenced Judaism......?

We don't know what that form was so the thought that zoroastrinism as we know it today is older than judaism is a faulty one, for all we know before the actual zoroastor was born the religion we are calling zoroastrinism was totally different. Perhaps their concept of god was totally different FROM WHAT it became under zoroastor. WE can never know but what we do know is that judaism existed before zoroastor was born

Listen there is judaism the culture and there is judaism the religion..... the bible records that the persians did influence jewish culture because the jews were in exile from there land and had to live among persians, but the persian people did not influence the jewish religion. There is a similar phenomenon in islam, where you have islam the religion and then you have the different cultures of different groups of muslims.

 

[zzombie]

Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.

AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago shit if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.

first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events

Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.

To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this god in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.

in most places on earth today if you mention GOD to someone they are automatically going to think of the God of abraham and that's pretty impressive

The Abrahamic god isn't ruling humanity though, I don't see it in Norway or Sweden where most people are non-religious. It's not seen in China or North Korea where the government is officially atheist. Don't see it in Iraq where thousands of Christians were killed off or enslaved, is this the ruling of humanity I'm supposed to be impressed with?

People throughout the world have different ideas on who or what god is, when I think of "god", I think of all the thousands of gods that have supposedly existed or exist out there. There is no one god, people throughout the world pray to all kinds of different gods, Jews only make up 1 percent of the world and it's questionable if Muslims even worship the same god as Christians do. So no, I'm not really impressed with the Abrahamic god lol

I was not being so literal but even those nations you mentioned have a christian heritage.... and it's even seen in their flag the yellow cross on the swedish flag represents Christianity. CHINA has a growing and young christian population
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

Noth korea is an insane hermit kingdom and really cannot be compared to anyplace or talked about too reliably

I did not SAY CHRISTIANITY WAS RULING EVERYWHERE, you are selectively reading again. i said the god of abraham was basically ruling humanity so what i was saying is that the influence of the belief in the god most people think abraham worshipped is ubiquitous, and that includes the entire islamic world because THEY THINK THEY ARE WORSHIPING THE GOD OF ABRAHAM AND THAT THE REST OF US ARE JUST DOING IT WRONG. But the fact still remains that their conception of god is drawn from abraham.

Most people through out this world, when they stop and ponder on god are stoping to think of the god of abraham, that includes all of africa,south america and the vast majority of north america and the scattered millions of people in asia and even europe still has a christian population especially in russia a place that was once officially atheist now has a resurgent Christian population.

"Christianity in Russia is by some estimates the largest religion in the country, with nearly 50% of the population identifying as Christian. The largest tradition is the Russian Orthodox Church. By official information, there are 68 eparchies of Russian Orthodox Church."

 

[kingblaze84]

Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.

No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .

Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.

The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other

way around.

Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic

"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."

There are different theories on the true origins of Zoroastrianism but it is very possible Zoroaster incorporated older ideas into the religion he made popular, Zoroastrianism, as most scholars agree Zoroastrianism was around before 2nd temple Judaism (the period which created Hebrew canon).

I do understand some scholars disagree with that, but it's still very interesting that most scholars agree Zoroastrianism in SOME FORM is older then the Judaism we know of now. Even more interesting is that the same article you mentioned admits most Jewish scholars agree Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism as we know it now. Why do you think most Jewish scholars believe Zoroastrinism influenced Judaism......?

We don't know what that form was so the thought that zoroastrinism as we know it today is older than judaism is a faulty one, for all we know before the actual zoroastor was born the religion we are calling zoroastrinism was totally different. Perhaps their concept of god was totally different FROM WHAT it became under zoroastor. WE can never know but what we do know is that judaism existed before zoroastor was born

Listen there is judaism the culture and there is judaism the religion..... the bible records that the persians did influence jewish culture because the jews were in exile from there land and had to live among persians, but the persian people did not influence the jewish religion. There is a similar phenomenon in islam, where you have islam the religion and then you have the different cultures of different groups of muslims.

According to most Jewish scholars either way, Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism, not just Jewish culture. Zoroaster's age is still being debated among many. You never answered as to why most Jewish scholars are in agreement that Zoroastrianism in some form influenced Judaism, why would most Jewish scholars agree on this? If even most of them can admit this, then the evidence most be convincing.

Ezra, one of the people who helped invent the Judasim of current canon around 400 BC, was greatly influenced by Zoroastrianism according to most JEWISH SCHOLARS. Think on that.
http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0200PersiaJudaism.php#judaism

How Persia Created Judaism: Persian and Jewish Religion



Zoroaster had subjected the Iranian tribal gods to the one Most High God, Ahuramazda. Ezra, at the behest of the Persian king, did the same in Yehud. Around 400 BC, with Jerusalem Persian, Ezra and Nehemiah invented Judaism. They made the Jewish gods into a single monotheistic god akin to Ahuramazda, and the Judahites into a civilized people.

Zoroastrianism was the source of Jewish monotheism, brought from “exile” on the “return” (Isa 43:10-13; Jer 10:1-16). Even Christian scholars note that the concept of Ahuramazda is closer to that of the Jewish God than that of any other eastern religion. The old Israelites of the Palestinian hill country were not monotheists. Before it was remodelled by the Persians, Judaism was polytheistic.

 

[kingblaze84]

Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.

AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago shit if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.

first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events

Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.

To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this god in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.

in most places on earth today if you mention GOD to someone they are automatically going to think of the God of abraham and that's pretty impressive

The Abrahamic god isn't ruling humanity though, I don't see it in Norway or Sweden where most people are non-religious. It's not seen in China or North Korea where the government is officially atheist. Don't see it in Iraq where thousands of Christians were killed off or enslaved, is this the ruling of humanity I'm supposed to be impressed with?

People throughout the world have different ideas on who or what god is, when I think of "god", I think of all the thousands of gods that have supposedly existed or exist out there. There is no one god, people throughout the world pray to all kinds of different gods, Jews only make up 1 percent of the world and it's questionable if Muslims even worship the same god as Christians do. So no, I'm not really impressed with the Abrahamic god lol

I was not being so literal but even those nations you mentioned have a christian heritage.... and it's even seen in their flag the yellow cross on the swedish flag represents Christianity. CHINA has a growing and young christian population
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

Noth korea is an insane hermit kingdom and really cannot be compared to anyplace or talked about too reliably

I did not SAY CHRISTIANITY WAS RULING EVERYWHERE, you are selectively reading again. i said the god of abraham was basically ruling humanity so what i was saying is that the influence of the belief in the god most people think abraham worshipped is ubiquitous, and that includes the entire islamic world because THEY THINK THEY ARE WORSHIPING THE GOD OF ABRAHAM AND THAT THE REST OF US ARE JUST DOING IT WRONG. But the fact still remains that their conception of god is drawn from abraham.

Most people through out this world, when they stop and ponder on god are stoping to think of the god of abraham, that includes all of africa,south america and the vast majority of north america and the scattered millions of people in asia and even europe still has a christian population especially in russia a place that was once officially atheist now has a resurgent Christian population.

"Christianity in Russia is by some estimates the largest religion in the country, with nearly 50% of the population identifying as Christian. The largest tradition is the Russian Orthodox Church. By official information, there are 68 eparchies of Russian Orthodox Church."

Just because many people are Christian and Muslim throughout the world doesn't mean the Abrahamic god is active, it doesn't change the fact that the Bible or Islamic god isn't physically seen in the secular and non-religious countries of the world. China and some other nations still have an officially atheist government, I don't see any higher power changing that.

About 54% of the world belongs to an Abrahamic faith in some way, but that means BILLIONS OF PEOPLE are not part of that religious family tree, about 3 billion plus. The Abrahamic family tree is not an impressive one honestly, considering the way Muslims, Jews and Christians treat each other in the Middle East. It's a dysfunctional, chaotic family tree that has helped spawn some of the biggest misery around the planet according to many former Muslims and Christians.

So one way or the other, billions of people around the world don't really see the so called Abrahamic god. And the fact that so many Muslims around the world have so little respect for Christians and Jews that they are among the most hated people in the Middle East is pretty sad and pathetic. How ironic the Abrahamic god can't even bring people of its own dysfunctional family tree together.

 

[kingblaze84]

A very serious question for those who believe prayer is about gaining guidance and wisdom......


--What the fuck happened?? Bush prayed every day......

 

[zzombie]

MOST JEWISH SCHOLORS DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENTS BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE EITHER WAY lol nigga we just went over this shit... that article is bullshit and the website is shady. not everything you read on the internet is real there are crack pot so called scholars out there.

Judaism the religion existed way before zoroastor was even born and on top of that the religions aren't really that similar at all zoroastorism is actually closer to Christianity and islam than it is judaism. EZRA CODIFIED JUDAISM BUT HE DID NOT CREATE IT JUDAISM existed before ZOROASTORISM as a purely monotheistic religion.... keep in mind that zoroastorism is not even monotheistic and many of the scripture we have for it come in the A.D ERA ....

SOME FOR THE SOURCES YOU POSTED EVEN CONFIRM WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING so just stop the bullshit already

 

[zzombie]

Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.

AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago shit if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.

first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events

Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.

To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this god in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.

in most places on earth today if you mention GOD to someone they are automatically going to think of the God of abraham and that's pretty impressive

The Abrahamic god isn't ruling humanity though, I don't see it in Norway or Sweden where most people are non-religious. It's not seen in China or North Korea where the government is officially atheist. Don't see it in Iraq where thousands of Christians were killed off or enslaved, is this the ruling of humanity I'm supposed to be impressed with?

People throughout the world have different ideas on who or what god is, when I think of "god", I think of all the thousands of gods that have supposedly existed or exist out there. There is no one god, people throughout the world pray to all kinds of different gods, Jews only make up 1 percent of the world and it's questionable if Muslims even worship the same god as Christians do. So no, I'm not really impressed with the Abrahamic god lol

I was not being so literal but even those nations you mentioned have a christian heritage.... and it's even seen in their flag the yellow cross on the swedish flag represents Christianity. CHINA has a growing and young christian population
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

Noth korea is an insane hermit kingdom and really cannot be compared to anyplace or talked about too reliably

I did not SAY CHRISTIANITY WAS RULING EVERYWHERE, you are selectively reading again. i said the god of abraham was basically ruling humanity so what i was saying is that the influence of the belief in the god most people think abraham worshipped is ubiquitous, and that includes the entire islamic world because THEY THINK THEY ARE WORSHIPING THE GOD OF ABRAHAM AND THAT THE REST OF US ARE JUST DOING IT WRONG. But the fact still remains that their conception of god is drawn from abraham.

Most people through out this world, when they stop and ponder on god are stoping to think of the god of abraham, that includes all of africa,south america and the vast majority of north america and the scattered millions of people in asia and even europe still has a christian population especially in russia a place that was once officially atheist now has a resurgent Christian population.

"Christianity in Russia is by some estimates the largest religion in the country, with nearly 50% of the population identifying as Christian. The largest tradition is the Russian Orthodox Church. By official information, there are 68 eparchies of Russian Orthodox Church."

Just because many people are Christian and Muslim throughout the world doesn't mean the Abrahamic god is active, it doesn't change the fact that the Bible or Islamic god isn't physically seen in the secular and non-religious countries of the world. China and some other nations still have an officially atheist government, I don't see any higher power changing that.

About 54% of the world belongs to an Abrahamic faith in some way, but that means BILLIONS OF PEOPLE are not part of that religious family tree, about 3 billion plus. The Abrahamic family tree is not an impressive one honestly, considering the way Muslims, Jews and Christians treat each other in the Middle East. It's a dysfunctional, chaotic family tree that has helped spawn some of the biggest misery around the planet according to many former Muslims and Christians.

So one way or the other, billions of people around the world don't really see the so called Abrahamic god. And the fact that so many Muslims around the world have so little respect for Christians and Jews that they are among the most hated people in the Middle East is pretty sad and pathetic. How ironic the Abrahamic god can't even bring people of its own dysfunctional family tree together.

lol this guy... according to the bible and other religious texts the power of god can be seen in the power and influence of his believers. WHATEVER OFFICIAL position the government has on religion is irrelevant because the people themselves are changing. The american government has many official positions on things that the average american disagrees on, you cannot judge the positions of a people on the positions of their government especially when that government is a one party dictatorship like china. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THESE NUMBERS FROM??? i'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU MANY TIMES ALREADY and you know very well that due to the nature of relgion it is impossible to properly assign these percentages all you can make is large estimates, for example you can has that pakistan is muslim but you cannot say that 12% of pakistan is christian because it would be totally impossible to actually know

but by land mass the god of abraham is clearly winning because it was multiple continents on lock and the nations and peoples that are actually experiencing growth are those will many of his adherents nations. T

 

[kingblaze84]

MOST JEWISH SCHOLORS DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENTS BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE EITHER WAY lol nigga we just went over this shit... that article is bullshit and the website is shady. not everything you read on the internet is real there are crack pot so called scholars out there.

Judaism the religion existed way before zoroastor was even born and on top of that the religions aren't really that similar at all zoroastorism is actually closer to Christianity and islam than it is judaism. EZRA CODIFIED JUDAISM BUT HE DID NOT CREATE IT JUDAISM existed before ZOROASTORISM as a purely monotheistic religion.... keep in mind that zoroastorism is not even monotheistic and many of the scripture we have for it come in the A.D ERA ....

SOME FOR THE SOURCES YOU POSTED EVEN CONFIRM WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING so just stop the bullshit already

Most scholars agree the date of Zoroaster's birth is not known for sure, Zoroastriniast beliefs were not written until AD times, but Greek and other scholars fully agree Zoroastrianism in some form is extremely old, reaching way before BC times.

And of course the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA is shady to you now, lol. Is it shady to you because it admits most Jewish scholars agree Zoroastriniamsm in some form influenced Judasim? Most scholars worldwide agree on this, you'll continue to be on the outside looking in as far as religious scholars are concerned. Either way, this is already being taught in many college universities, I was taught this in Hunter College as well in religion class in high school. You admit Ezra codified Juadism, and there are many scholars who even have Youtube videos showing just how much Ezra was influenced by Zoroastrianism. So how the hell am I reaching if college professors and others are teaching all this stuff right now in colleges throughout the world?