kingblaze84
New member
the dukester;9232767 said:
LOL, according to Creflo Dollar and that white preacher in TX, if people pray enough and are devout enough, "god" can act like Santa Claus. Sounds realistic right?
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To those who believe in the power of prayer, does god or the heavens keep a waiting list?
LOL, according to Creflo Dollar and that white preacher in TX, if people pray enough and are devout enough, "god" can act like Santa Claus. Sounds realistic right?
kingblaze84;9234845 said:
I don't quite get what you mean by "naturally bad" ??? anyway i doubt dou meant what you think he did, when people say God gets the glory they usually mean that no matter what happens at the end of the day god can turn what we feel is a bad/painful situation into something else. That saying " to god be the glory" when used in referencing painful situations does not mean god is causing the initial negative situation to happen just that he can ultimately turn any situation into an uplifting situation.
For example while you are correct, MANY jews did die during the holocaust but the jews are still around and more healthy and powerful than ever before, so while may individual jews may leave the earth the religion lives on and has more influence and power than it did before. All the other religions and peoples that have come up against the religion of abraham have pretty much been reduced to either nothingness or are EXTREMELY uninfluential. You don't see too many worshipers of baal or any of the philistine gods around to today. Meanwhile the god of abraham is everywhere in some form or another and influences everyone in some way or another and i am speaking carnally not just spiritually
YES I AM ARROGANT WHEN it comes to boasting about the power of my GOD which is perfectly fine because 1 corinthians 1:31 says " Therefore, as it is written: "Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord."
kingblaze84
New member
zzombie;9235509 said:
So if "god gets the glory" when good things happen, who gets the glory when naturally bad things happen to people, like disease, medical conditions, parasites, etc? Who should my homegirl blame if her daughter's asthma gets worse? If she does get better, technically, science and her doctors should get most, if not all the glory.
And while Jews as a whole did survive the Holocaust, their numbers were drastically reduced and ironically Jews are some of the most secular and atheistic people on Earth. Israel's govt is hardline religious but about half of Israelis consider themselves secular. It's even more percentage wise in America, where Jews are at their biggest numbers outside Israel.
By the way, the "god" of Abraham is not influential at all, I don't see it around Earth. The man made books that MENTION the god of Abraham are influential to some degree, true, but this god of Abraham is not really found anywhere. A "god" can't be influential if it's not even active and there's zero proof it was ever active minus a few stories, and by the way where is the "power" of this god you're talking about? Isn't it kind of silly to boast about the power of an absentee god that's nowhere to be seen or heard from?
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kingblaze84
New member
The god of Abraham is basically a rip off of other religions anyway
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@kingblaze84
To God be the Glory does not equal blame or responsibility I JUST WENT OVER THIS WITH YOU, the term "naturally bad" makes no sense to me because good or bad are subjective terms. Is death bad??? is suffering bad??? my answer is it DEPENDS ON the context of the situation. If you are asking me who is responsible for "natural death" meaning DEATH caused by disease or earthquakes and things like that then the answer is simple... HUMANITY IS RESPONSIBLE.
DEATH CAME INTO creation as a result of Sin... if there were no sin in the world there would be no death this was explained in the allegorical story of adam and eve. The death sin connection is one of the messages of that story. I am not saying that the child will die because she or the mother are sinful i am saying that death is a part of our shared reality because of human sin and how death and why death is dished out is mostly random. Your homegirl has no one to blame. She can pray and ask god to heal the child and maybe he will if it's in his will to do so. Therefore if we submit ourselves to him in faith, to a certain extent god will bend if not break the rules of the reality mankind has created for ourselves BUT we must submit ourselves to him in faith. HOWEVER sometimes he won't physically heal you because he has other plans.
As for the jews, even back in the O.T there were jews that fell off the path it's a recurring event in the bible so the fact that today there are many atheist jews or people born jewish and then become atheist is not really a shocking event. The god of abraham is extremely influential why do you think america can never have an openly atheist president?? people won't vote for one why?? because the belief in the god of abraham is too strong and that belief dictates that atheist are fools and no one is going to elect anyone they think is a fool. The books influence are one of his main methods of influence.
God seems like an absentee to YOU because YOU cannot feel him and don't know HIM BUT to those of us who can feel his presence in our lives we know he is very much real. LIKE I ALWAYS TELL YOU one of your main problems is that you want GOD to do what you want him to do. YOU want god to prove himself to YOU in the way YOU want him to but SORRY but it does not work that way. God is not going to bow to You.
You want to feel God then you have to submit You have to BOW and YOU have to surrender YOUR heart, mind, body and soul.
To God be the Glory does not equal blame or responsibility I JUST WENT OVER THIS WITH YOU, the term "naturally bad" makes no sense to me because good or bad are subjective terms. Is death bad??? is suffering bad??? my answer is it DEPENDS ON the context of the situation. If you are asking me who is responsible for "natural death" meaning DEATH caused by disease or earthquakes and things like that then the answer is simple... HUMANITY IS RESPONSIBLE.
DEATH CAME INTO creation as a result of Sin... if there were no sin in the world there would be no death this was explained in the allegorical story of adam and eve. The death sin connection is one of the messages of that story. I am not saying that the child will die because she or the mother are sinful i am saying that death is a part of our shared reality because of human sin and how death and why death is dished out is mostly random. Your homegirl has no one to blame. She can pray and ask god to heal the child and maybe he will if it's in his will to do so. Therefore if we submit ourselves to him in faith, to a certain extent god will bend if not break the rules of the reality mankind has created for ourselves BUT we must submit ourselves to him in faith. HOWEVER sometimes he won't physically heal you because he has other plans.
As for the jews, even back in the O.T there were jews that fell off the path it's a recurring event in the bible so the fact that today there are many atheist jews or people born jewish and then become atheist is not really a shocking event. The god of abraham is extremely influential why do you think america can never have an openly atheist president?? people won't vote for one why?? because the belief in the god of abraham is too strong and that belief dictates that atheist are fools and no one is going to elect anyone they think is a fool. The books influence are one of his main methods of influence.
God seems like an absentee to YOU because YOU cannot feel him and don't know HIM BUT to those of us who can feel his presence in our lives we know he is very much real. LIKE I ALWAYS TELL YOU one of your main problems is that you want GOD to do what you want him to do. YOU want god to prove himself to YOU in the way YOU want him to but SORRY but it does not work that way. God is not going to bow to You.
You want to feel God then you have to submit You have to BOW and YOU have to surrender YOUR heart, mind, body and soul.
kingblaze84
New member
zzombie;9236875 said:
Are you sure about that? Have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? It came before Judaism and came from the ancient Persians. Judaism as we know it now is directly influenced from Zoroastrinism, don't act like Judaism is the oldest religion in the world. Judaism acknowledges the presence of other gods and as you already know, the god of of Abraham acts no different then the other "gods" out there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/z_influence_abrahamic.htm
Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonic dualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique... among the major religions of the world."[2] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian Prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra),[3] he exalted their deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda, (Wise Lord) as its Supreme Being.[4] Leading characteristics, such as messianism, heaven and hell, and free will are said to have influenced other religious systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity, and Islam.[5
Second Temple Judaism is Judaism between the construction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, c. 515 BCE, and its destruction by the Romans in 70 CE. The development of the Hebrew Bible canon, the synagogue, Jewish apocalyptic expectations for the future, and Christianity, can all be traced to Second Temple times.
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kingblaze84
New member
zzombie;9236977 said:
So if so many Jews these days and even back then doubted the Abrahamic god was real, why should anyone else take it seriously? And the god of Abraham is not really doing anything, it is people who BELIEVE the Abrahamic god is real who have some influence in the world (a ton of it bad).
As far as America never having an atheist president, what's your point, there have been several non-religious presidents. Thomas Jefferson talked a lot of shit about Christianity and Judaism, Benjamin Franklin and some other Founding Fathers weren't big fans of Torah and Christian doctrine either. THEIR influence is a big part of the reason there is a separation between church and state, which is one of the greatest things about the Constitution. Nations that have religion dictating their laws often have repressive societies filled with angry people.
And I already did the whole "submitting" to Jesus thing, I actually felt unhappy at those later times being Christian because I felt like I was worshipping a giant, lazy bum who isn't doing anything. As I got more involved with history and science, I actually became more disgusted being Christian and knew I couldn't respect such a lazy being. I never became atheist though, though I came close a few times.
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Ajackson17
New member
I think it's disingenuous to say that Judiasm is a total rip and has no influences from other religions. Humans trade ideas when there is trade and commerce.
kingblaze84;9237275 said:
And why do you think people continue to believe and have believed in this GOD for thousands of years??? while the believers of other gods have basically gone on the endangered soon to be extinct list.... could it not be because the god of Abraham is actually real and those who believe in him have actually had real contact with him the way they say they have.
My point in saying that america won't have an atheist president was to prove to you that the religions of the god of abraham still exert alot of influence on the world while the religions of the other gods have very little comparative influence... almost none really. None of the founding fathers were atheist, they had their own views but they were not atheist. WE HAVE separation between church and state not because the founding fathers were atheist but because they did not want to repeat the inter-christian religious wars that europe had went through.
Your last paragraph just affirmed my critique of you.... You call god lazy, why??? because he won't do what you want him to do when you want him to do it, someone not doing what we want in s timely manner is the only logical reason for calling them lazy. So by you calling god lazy what you are saying is that God must do what you want when you want. If you really submitted yourself to god you would not be praying with selfish intentions and expectations of GOD DOING your will like he's some kind of genie. You say god is not doing anything but how do you know??? you don't know. God does a lot for us that many people cannot perceive especially people like you who have no relationship with him and reject and curse him every chance you get.
when you woke up this morning and you took that first breath.... god just did something for you , start being thankful for that before you start making demands of the ultimate master of the universe
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kingblaze84
New member
Ajackson17;9237469 said:
This is true, Judaism isn't a TOTAL ripoff of other religions but its founders definitely took influences from other religions of its time and before its time.
Not much different then Christianity and Islam taking elements from the Torah and likely other religions.
kingblaze84
New member
zzombie;9237464 said:
Zoroastrinism came before Judaism as we know it now and the elements are very similar, keep it real. It's not a TOTALLY different belief from Judaism, that's a bold faced lie. There are a ton of similarities. Judaism did a LOT of copy catting from Zoroastrinism......
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/jud_zor.htm
It's a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other. Most scholars believe that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angiology, demonology, and resurrection. Also the monotheistic conception of Yahweh may have been changed or influenced by being opposed to the dualism of the Persians.
In both faiths God is omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal, and creator of the universe. God operates through and governs the universe with the use of angels and archangels. This presents a parallel to Yahweh that is found in the Old Testament. The Zoroastrianism Spenta Mainyu is the Christian "Holy Spirit."
Ahura Mazda's power is hampered by Ahriman (the Devil) and his host of demons. Their dominion like Satan's will be destroyed at the end of the world. The world is the Devil's domain. Zoroastrian eschatological teachings-the doctrines of a regenerate world, a perfect kingdom, the coming of a Messiah, the resurrection of the dead, and the life everlasting are nearly identical to Christianity.
--Let's face it, Judaism did a FUCK LOAD of copy catting from Zoroastrinism.
kingblaze84
New member
zzombie;9237482 said:
If you believe people REALLY had contact with the Bible god, why is it hard to believe that people may have been visited by the Hindu gods Kali and Shiva? If you believe your god is so real, then maybe you should be open to other gods being real too, you have just as much proof as Hindus, Odin worshippers and animists do. Millions or billions worship other gods, whether you accept that or not.
And the gods of other religions are definitely influential, what the hell are you talking about??? Horus influenced the story of Jesus, Ahura from Zoroastrinism influenced the story of Yahweh. Hindu gods are influential in India, a nation made up of a BILLION PLUS people. Stop the arrogance when you have nothing to back it up with.
By the way I'm always grateful for every breath I take, but who is the ultimate master of the universe? Is it Ahura, the Persian god who helped influence the story of Yahweh? Or is it Horus, the Egyptian god who helped influence the story of Jesus?
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kingblaze84;9239630 said:
This theory has already been debunked
" First of all, the earliest writing down of the scripture of Zoroastrianism was in the fourth century AD (yes, AD). The oldest manuscript we have of the Avesta–the principle scripture of Zoroastrianism–is from the fourteenth century AD. Most of the claimed parallels between Jesus and Zoroaster are not found at all in the Avesta. The few which are can more easily be explained as coincidence (in other words, different religions will sometimes have similar characteristics) or because of borrowing from Christianity into Zoroastrianism, rather than the reverse, because the Christian scripture predates the Zoroastrian scripture. As for parallels, there is an idea of bodily resurrection in Zoroastrianism. Whether this was included in the religion before the time of Christ is hard to say, but what we can say is that, in any case, the Avesta does not claim that Zoroaster himself was resurrected from the dead. So much for the parallel between Jesus and Zoroaster and for the idea that the church got the idea of the resurrection from the Avesta. Other parallels have been claimed by Jesus-Mythers. They claim that Zoroaster was baptized in a river. There is no mention of this in any Zoroastrian scripture. They claim that his was a virgin birth. The Avesta refers to a “kingly glory” that was inherited by Zoroaster through is mother, but it is hard to see this as equivalent to a virgin birth. Another claim is that Zoroaster, like Jesus, was tempted by Satan in the wilderness. There is perhaps some parallel here, as Zoroaster was tempted for ten years (rather than forty days) by a sub-demon named J. Buiti, not by the Zoroastrian equivalent of Satan (who, by the way is not equivalent to Satan, but who is equal to Ahura Mazda in power).
The analysis could continue, but if one considers the claims of parallelism, they are generally non-existent or over-blown. The ones which are perhaps arguably indeed parallel are more likely explained by borrowing of Zoroastrianism from Christianity than vice-versa, given the date of the writing of these scriptures. More likely, they are simply independent writings. Either way, the idea that the resurrection of Jesus was a fabrication of the early Christians, stolen from Zoroastrianism is absolutely untenable. No rational person could accept this thesis unless from some sort of extreme bias."
kingblaze84
New member
Zoroastrinism was spread mostly by oral traditions in ancient days, just as many other religions were spread historically. Most people back then couldn't even read, so people writing the stories of Zoroastrinism until 4th century AD is not a total surprise to me. But the ancient Greeks and others wrote about the beliefs of Zoroastrinism in BC days
http://op-ed.the-environmentalist.org/2007/04/zoroastrianisms-influence-on-judaism.html
Zoroastrianism was the dominant world religion from 559 BCE to 651 CE, and was thus the most powerful world religion at the time of Jesus. It had a major influence on other religions and is still practiced world-wide.
Those other religions that Zoroastrianism influenced?
Western Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and Eastern Dharmic (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism) religious traditions, including God, the Devil, sexual equality, evolution, environmentalism, etc.....
"Zoroastrianism is the oldest of the revealed world-religions, and it has probably had more influence on mankind, directly and indirectly, than any other single faith." - Mary Boyce, Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices (London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1979, p. 1)
"Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam; yet it is in Zoroastrianism itself that they have their fullest logical coherence....” - Mary Boyce, Op. Cit. p. 29.
http://www.avesta.org/avesta.html
--Most religious scholars worldwide agree Judaism was absolutely influenced by Zoroastrinism. The similarities are too similar to ignore. So once again, is Yahweh the ultimate master, or is it Ahura??
Or maybe another secret god that hasn't revealed itself to the world yet. Or maybe all the gods are dead and aliens are the ones in control now. Can't say for sure either way.
http://op-ed.the-environmentalist.org/2007/04/zoroastrianisms-influence-on-judaism.html
Zoroastrianism was the dominant world religion from 559 BCE to 651 CE, and was thus the most powerful world religion at the time of Jesus. It had a major influence on other religions and is still practiced world-wide.
Those other religions that Zoroastrianism influenced?
Western Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and Eastern Dharmic (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism) religious traditions, including God, the Devil, sexual equality, evolution, environmentalism, etc.....
"Zoroastrianism is the oldest of the revealed world-religions, and it has probably had more influence on mankind, directly and indirectly, than any other single faith." - Mary Boyce, Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices (London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1979, p. 1)
"Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam; yet it is in Zoroastrianism itself that they have their fullest logical coherence....” - Mary Boyce, Op. Cit. p. 29.
http://www.avesta.org/avesta.html
--Most religious scholars worldwide agree Judaism was absolutely influenced by Zoroastrinism. The similarities are too similar to ignore. So once again, is Yahweh the ultimate master, or is it Ahura??
Or maybe another secret god that hasn't revealed itself to the world yet. Or maybe all the gods are dead and aliens are the ones in control now. Can't say for sure either way.
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kingblaze84;9239654 said:zzombie;9237482 said:
If you believe people REALLY had contact with the Bible god, why is it hard to believe that people may have been visited by the Hindu gods Kali and Shiva? If you believe your god is so real, then maybe you should be open to other gods being real too, you have just as much proof as Hindus, Odin worshippers and animists do. Millions or billions worship other gods, whether you accept that or not.
And the gods of other religions are definitely influential, what the hell are you talking about??? Horus influenced the story of Jesus, Ahura from Zoroastrinism influenced the story of Yahweh. Hindu gods are influential in India, a nation made up of a BILLION PLUS people. Stop the arrogance when you have nothing to back it up with.
By the way I'm always grateful for every breath I take, but who is the ultimate master of the universe? Is it Ahura, the Persian god who helped influence the story of Yahweh? Or is it Horus, the Egyptian god who helped influence the story of Jesus?
another theory that has been debunked
just off the top of my head i know that list is bullshit because Horus was not a virgin birth isis reconstructed the body and penis of osiris fucked him and has horus.... therefore she was not a virgin.
JESUS birthday may be celebrated on the 25 of december but the bible does not record him being born on that day or even in that season.
i am totally sure that if i went thought that whole list it would be mostly bullshit and conjecture but i don't have to go down the list because other people have done it already
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