Tiger Woods Practices Buddhism...so does that mean hes going to hell when he dies?

[alissowack]

I don't think it's anybody's call where he goes (other than God). I can be like your friendly neigborhood evangelist and say..."You're going to Hell!!!", but who knows if God will call him to the faith.

 

[phanatron]

I'm a practicing Buddhist. According to your conception of Hell, the answer would be no.

 

[TX_Made713]

I'm a practicing Buddhist. According to your conception of Hell, the answer would be no.

please explain

 

[phanatron]

When most* Christians think of Hell, they think of a place of physical torment where people suffer throughout eternity for the sins that they have committed or simply for failing to accept Jesus as their savior and as the one true God. In that sense, Hell is a place of external affliction for your past actions.

For Buddhist, hell can mean two things. One, hell is a direct result of your negative actions. It isn't so much a external torment as it is an internal torment. We crave, we desire, we seek to hold that which we cannot, and we suffer because our craving goes unfulfilled. The more that we want the more that we suffer. Hell is not a place that one goes per se, but more a state of being in which one exists. The mental anguish that we cause ourselves is generated through our own actions. For many, this aungish is so great that it can be described as hell.

The second way hell can be described for a Buddhist is that because of our craving leads to immense negativity, we ultimately put ourselves in places of physical discomfort and pain. It is this fundamental clinging that leads us to places where it is harder to find mental harmony and stability. When we die, this clinging has a more profound affect. As the physical nature of our existence disipates, our minds (loosly used) begin to rage, looking for things to hold on to and this effects the cycle of rebirth.

*I use the term 'most' because during the enligtening period, many Christian scholars moved towards a different understanding of Christianity and what Jesus meant with the 'Kingdom of Heaven'. Some Christian monks still follow this alternative view but mostly it is just discussed in scholarly circles.

 

[TX_Made713]

When most* Christians think of Hell, they think of a place of physical torment where people suffer throughout eternity for the sins that they have committed or simply for failing to accept Jesus as their savior and as the one true God. In that sense, Hell is a place of external affliction for your past actions.

For Buddhist, hell can mean two things. One, hell is a direct result of your negative actions. It isn't so much a external torment as it is an internal torment. We crave, we desire, we seek to hold that which we cannot, and we suffer because our craving goes unfulfilled. The more that we want the more that we suffer. Hell is not a place that one goes per se, but more a state of being in which one exists. The mental anguish that we cause ourselves is generated through our own actions. For many, this aungish is so great that it can be described as hell.

The second way hell can be described for a Buddhist is that because of our craving leads to immense negativity, we ultimately put ourselves in places of physical discomfort and pain. It is this fundamental clinging that leads us to places where it is harder to find mental harmony and stability. When we die, this clinging has a more profound affect. As the physical nature of our existence disipates, our minds (loosly used) begin to rage, looking for things to hold on to and this effects the cycle of rebirth.

*I use the term 'most' because during the enligtening period, many Christian scholars moved towards a different understanding of Christianity and what Jesus meant with the 'Kingdom of Heaven'. Some Christian monks still follow this alternative view but mostly it is just discussed in scholarly circles.

my question is what makes your belief any different from ours?

 

[phanatron]

Buddhism isn't predicated on any beliefs. The principal elements of Buddhism is meditation and mindfulness. The effect of mediation and mindfulness does not require belief. Where belief comes into play is as an encouragement to continue practicing. There are many schools thought in Buddhism that refuse to speculate on metaphysical ideas such as reincarnation. You can remove all belief from Buddhism and still have the essential elements of Buddhsim. In fact, across the many schools of Buddhism, the 'beliefs' differ (Such as the difference between Zen and Mahyana Buddhism) but the core remains the same. As one progresses in meditation and understanding, they understand why the differences in 'beliefs' is inconsequential. All of these things are constructs that we create but are as empty (or as full) as all of our other constructs.

I think what you are really asking is what makes my beliefs 'true' and thus your 'false' or why should one 'believe' what I believe versus what you believe. So based the above paragraph, I don't need my beliefs at all. At most, I know that any belief that I may have is as real as I make it to be. I can use my beliefs to my advantage but I should always be willing to discard them because their essiential nature is one of my construction.

 

[phanatron]

To follow up; living out karma isn't a belief either. It is a matter of examining where you are and understanding how you got there. The hell, in terms of mental anguish, isn't a belief in so much as it is an acknowledgement that past actions lead to present consequences. In that vein, current actions lead to future consequences. As we continue to create negative mental states for ourselves, we continue to suffer. I don't need to really go into what happens after death, because for me its speculative. People who have achieved higher levels of meditation have different experiences. I'm not there.

 

[TX_Made713]

Buddhism isn't predicated on any beliefs. The principal elements of Buddhism is meditation and mindfulness. The effect of mediation and mindfulness does not require belief. Where belief comes into play is as an encouragement to continue practicing. There are many schools thought in Buddhism that refuse to speculate on metaphysical ideas such as reincarnation. You can remove all belief from Buddhism and still have the essential elements of Buddhsim. In fact, across the many schools of Buddhism, the 'beliefs' differ (Such as the difference between Zen and Mahyana Buddhism) but the core remains the same. As one progresses in meditation and understanding, they understand why the differences in 'beliefs' is inconsequential. All of these things are constructs that we create but are as empty (or as full) as all of our other constructs.

I think what you are really asking is what makes my beliefs 'true' and thus your 'false' or why should one 'believe' what I believe versus what you believe. So based the above paragraph, I don't need my beliefs at all. At most, I know that any belief that I may have is as real as I make it to be. I can use my beliefs to my advantage but I should always be willing to discard them because their essiential nature is one of my construction.

If thats the case there is no way to tell if any belief is truth. many have pysched themselves to believe just about anything

i.e. followers of Maliki Z York

 

[phanatron]

If thats the case there is no way to tell if any belief is truth. many have pysched themselves to believe just about anything

i.e. followers of Maliki Z York

I will agree that it is hard to determine 'truth' as in the ultimate truth without first speculating on the ultimate nature of reality. Various groups, religions, philosophers have all opined as to what is truth and how we discover it. It can be quite difficult to discern who is right and generally we side with the group that we feel most comfortable with.

For Buddhist, truth is simply defined as cause and effect. We can judge things in a temporal sense as in does committing to an action produce the effect that the action is said to produce. Almost in a scientific manner of observeration, hypothesis, theory, and testing. There are fundamental premises, or laws if you will in a scientific sense, that say that certain actions will always produce a certain result. Craving will always produce suffering. An untamed mind will always wonder from thought to thought. And so on. Thus, the purpose of Buddhism is not to teach one to love others, to worship a God, or to believe in an after life. The purpose of Buddhism is to get a person to train their mind in a manner in which they can understand how their actions affect themselves and how to control their mind. In doing this, an individual may embrace other virtues as they see the interconnectedness of being and how it is impossible to be at peace with ones self and be at war with others.

 

[TX_Made713]

I will agree that it is hard to determine 'truth' as in the ultimate truth without first speculating on the ultimate nature of reality. Various groups, religions, philosophers have all opined as to what is truth and how we discover it. It can be quite difficult to discern who is right and generally we side with the group that we feel most comfortable with.

For Buddhist, truth is simply defined as cause and effect. We can judge things in a temporal sense as in does committing to an action produce the effect that the action is said to produce. Almost in a scientific manner of observeration, hypothesis, theory, and testing. There are fundamental premises, or laws if you will in a scientific sense, that say that certain actions will always produce a certain result. Craving will always produce suffering. An untamed mind will always wonder from thought to thought. And so on. Thus, the purpose of Buddhism is not to teach one to love others, to worship a God, or to believe in an after life. The purpose of Buddhism is to get a person to train their mind in a manner in which they can understand how their actions affect themselves and how to control their mind. In doing this, an individual may embrace other virtues as they see the interconnectedness of being and how it is impossible to be at peace with ones self and be at war with others.

Just to ask a personal question, were you a buddhist all your life or did you find this faith sometime down the line?

 

[phanatron]

I have been a Buddhist for about 10 years. My dad is a Baptist Pastor and I was raised as a Christian. I studied Christianity for several years and also served a few years as as missionary in rescue missions. I left Christianity when faced with a series of irreconcilable contradictions and impossibilities. In addition, I found that the theology of Christianity can be completely divorced from Jesus' teachings and that when you when you remove the theology from Jesus' teachings, many of the contradictions cease to exist.

When I left Christianity, I applied my version of Occam's Razor to my analysis of religion. Much of what I saw in religion was mythical, magical and unnecessary. Worse, many people have found ways to exploit these unnecessary elements to use people to their advantage and to subjugate those who would disagree or contest what they said. Instead of having religions that enhance individuals well being, we have religions that dominate and discriminate.