The Official 2pac Versus Biggie Thread...

[Makaveli The King]

ya know this "makaveli the king" is Ronnie AKA Juelz right ......

ya falling for the troll .....

the irony of u calling anybody a troll.

 

[Me1971]

i meant me against the world pt.2

he recorded another one while he was on the row.

Word? I didn't know that. To me Makaveli was like Me Against the World Pt 2. I hope they leak the tracks one day.

 

[angrymaninc]

He said he didn't write raps he wrote movie scripts (Live to Tell, ect). Its on that prison interview from 95 "prison kills your creative spirit, everyone's like "man pac gonna get out of jail and create the bomb album" but its the complete opposite, prison kills your spirit, i havent been writting raps, jus poetry and movie scripts"

Ok might be mistaken i do remember him talking bout he said he did a lot of writing however it was years ago so you might be right on what he was writing

 

[Makaveli The King]

Word? I didn't know that. To me Makaveli was like Me Against the World Pt 2. I hope they leak the tracks one day.

here is the link to where he said that
go to 5:28

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/hillzagold#p/u/7/vLU8Zs2hpt4[/video]

 

[Me1971]

here is the link to where he said that

go to 5:28

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/hillzagold#p/u/7/vLU8Zs2hpt4[/video]

Good looks on the link bro, thats interesting, I wonder what the album sounds like or if the tracks already leaked, he didn't specify what tracks were on there.

 

[rapmastermind]

I understand he wrote JM's album and was on tour in 95 but c'mon Pac was realeased from Jail in Oct of 95, between Oct - Dec of 95 he went on tour too, did various interviews, shot the Cali Love videos and he completed All Eyes on Me (with leftover tracks), and thats just his first two months realeased. From Jan - Sep 96 he recorded Makaveli (shot three videos for it) and which he helped to produce, One Nation album, ghostwrote the tracks for MC Hammer's album (unrealeased), did movie soundtracks and shot videos for the soundtrack, realeased the Hit Em single (shot a video for it), he did about 11 videos that year, recorded over 250 songs, started a record label and production company, juggling legal cases, finished two movies while starting another one (Baby Boy), traveled overseas, dide concerts, did over 25 interviews, went to almost every award show, getting enganged, opened a restaruant with atlantis morrisette, consistently volunteering his time at this community center for children that he started (a member of this site used to go there in 96, he posted alot of pics), doing guest appearances on other peoples albums and videos and he still found time to be family man, still participating in activism and live life. Plus, keep in mind, this was all in the midst of juggling various legal cases from 92-96, being on probabation, being watched by the feds, the stress of being on a record label, and knowing people are still tryna kill you lol.

Big was an incredible rapper but I just dont see what excuse he could've had for the gap between Ready to Die and Life After Death. He started recording Life After in 1995 and finished in Jan 1997. He was only recovering from the wreck between Sep - Nov 96 so LAD wasn't gonna come out in Oct regardless. In this video below Puff even talks about his work ethic and Big basically says "i have alot on my mind", this vid took place in 1996 while Pac was still alive. And back on topic, LAD and Makaveli are both great albums, its just Makaveli was a personal favorite of mine but I like how well put together Big's album is (pretty much the greatest double album in hip hop imo)

Ready To Die 94'

Conspiracy (Junior Mafia) 95' (Writer, Producer, Executive Producer, 5 songs featured)

Hard Core (Lil Kim) 96' (Writer, Producer, Executive Producer, 4 Songs Featured)

Life After Death (Double LP) 97'

No Way Out (Puffy) 97' (Writer, 4 Songs Featured)

People kill me with this trying to compare Pac and Biggie cause Pac has more songs. Every artist is different. To say Biggie had no work ethic when he was involved with the release of 5 LP's (6 albums) worth of material in a 3 year span, mind you that doesn't count collabo's and all the features Big was on. Pac lived in the studio cause he thought he was going to die, Pac work ethic isn't really comparable to any rapper let alone Biggie. Also "LAD" was going to come out on Holloween 96' but the car accident derailed the entire project, this is doucmented by Big himself and all the parties involved. If you look at the album cover and theme, it was clear a Holloween release would of been perfect. To say, "Why did it take Biggie 18 months", well it was a double LP, next there is no time limit to how to release an album. Some of the best artist in music history took years inbetween albums.

RTD dropped late 94, LAD dropped early 97, that's 2 1/2 years apart with 3 albums worth of material which averages to basically an LP a year. As for the debate at hand, I think "Makaveli" is a Classic but it ended up becoming Pac's last album when rumors were it was orginally suppose to be a mixtape. It's a dope record, most every song is ILL. It's 5 MICS for sure, 4.5 MICS at the very worst. "LAD" is a masterpiece though and changed the game. Rappers are still using the formulas from this album. The Filler/Average cuts do not bring down the album cause some of the most incredible records in rap history are on it. Also it's a double LP so it's kinda hard to compare to a single album. When I compare Pac to Biggie, I take their best 2 albums:

MATW VS RTD

AEOM VS LAD

What this shows is Big was able to drop quailty material from jump, Pac took some time before he dropped his 1st Classic. Yes Pac has 3 back to back Classics but Big did 2 back to back Classics at the beginning of his career. Big career was from late 92- early 97 which a little over 4 years and look what he was able to accomplish. Again Pac's catalog is amazing, "Makaveli" is a great album no doubt about it, better than "LAD"?, Knaw.

 

[blackstarr]

Im pretty sure that Reincarnation was meant for MaTW 2

 

[thesynthesis]

pac work ethic is unmatched

you niggas say he lived in the stuido, u forget he was also making movies? reading scripts? writing scripts? having a social life? doing interviews, media appearances, shows etc...

 

[Makaveli The King]

Good looks on the link bro, thats interesting, I wonder what the album sounds like or if the tracks already leaked, he didn't specify what tracks were on there.

well he said it sounded like
some breanda's got a baby keep ya head up so i think
keep ya head pt.2 would have been on there

 

[Makaveli The King]

Ready To Die 94'
Conspiracy (Junior Mafia) 95' (Writer, Producer, Executive Producer, 5 songs featured)
Hard Core (Lil Kim) 96' (Writer, Producer, Executive Producer, 4 Songs Featured)
Life After Death (Double LP) 97'
No Way Out (Puffy) 97' (Writer, 4 Songs Featured)

People kill me with this trying to compare Pac and Biggie cause Pac has more songs. Every artist is different. To say Biggie had no work ethic when he was involved with the release of 5 LP's (6 albums) worth of material in a 3 year span, mind you that doesn't count collabo's and all the features Big was on. Pac lived in the studio cause he thought he was going to die, Pac work ethic isn't really comparable to any rapper let alone Biggie. Also "LAD" was going to come out on Holloween 96' but the car accident derailed the entire project, this is doucmented by Big himself and all the parties involved. If you look at the album cover and theme, it was clear a Holloween release would of been perfect. To say, "Why did it take Biggie 18 months", well it was a double LP, next there is no time limit to how to release an album. Some of the best artist in music history took years inbetween albums.

RTD dropped late 94, LAD dropped early 97, that's 2 1/2 years apart with 3 albums worth of material which averages to basically an LP a year. As for the debate at hand, I think "Makaveli" is a Classic but it ended up becoming Pac's last album when rumors were it was orginally suppose to be a mixtape. It's a dope record, most every song is ILL. It's 5 MICS for sure, 4.5 MICS at the very worst. "LAD" is a masterpiece though and changed the game. Rappers are still using the formulas from this album. The Filler/Average cuts do not bring down the album cause some of the most incredible records in rap history are on it. Also it's a double LP so it's kinda hard to compare to a single album. When I compare Pac to Biggie, I take their best 2 albums:

MATW VS RTD
AEOM VS LAD

What this shows is Big was able to drop quailty material from jump, Pac took some time before he dropped his 1st Classic. Yes Pac has 3 back to back Classics but Big did 2 back to back Classics at the beginning of his career. Big career was from late 92- early 97 which a little over 4 years and look what he was able to accomplish. Again Pac's catalog is amazing, "Makaveli" is a great album no doubt about it, better than "LAD"?, Knaw.

stop making excuses for why biggie could'nt
come up with a enough songs u right on one
thing everybody works different but with that said
u could understand why alot of people put not just pac but others rappers who in their
opinion not only have a better catalog then biggie but got a more extensive catalog also

 

[YamoleySensei]

As talented a guy like Pac is, he could never in a million years create or craft an album that is sheer perfection. Biggie did when he dropped LAD....one of the best Double LPs in rap history

 

[rapmastermind]

stop making excuses for why biggie could'nt

come up with a enough songs u right on one

thing everybody works different but with that said

u could understand why alot of people put not just pac but others rappers who in their

opinion not only have a better catalog then biggie but got a more extensive catalog also

Who's making excuses?, Biggie died at the beginning of his career, Pac more or less was in the middle. I don't blame Biggie for getting murderd, that would be like saying Jimi Hendrix isn't the GOAT Gutair player cause he only had 3 albums and died, I don't blame Jimi for dying even though it was drug related, he died all I can do is judge what he left behind, same with Big. There is no time table for when an artist should release an album, if you look at the greatest artist in music and even in Hip Hop most take 2 if not 3 years inbetween LP'S. Pac and then Jay made it fasonable in Hip Hop to drop LP's yearly. If you think 3 LP's in 2 1/2 years is not work ethic then I'd like to see what is. A matter of fact, lets look at other artist 1st 3 years after their debut and compare it to the list I dropped for Big.

Tupac 92-94: 2PN & S4MN, Thug Life

Jay Z: 96-98: RD, Vol 1, Streets is Watching SDTK, HKL

NaS 94-96: ILLmatic & I.W.W., The Firm

Did Pac, Jay and NaS not have strong worth ethic in the beginning of their careers? Cause Big did more over his 1st 3 years since his debut was released.

 

[Fly_King]

pac put this album together in a week

biggie had skippers on LAD

7 Day Theory you can listen all the way through

Biggie shines w/storytelling and lyricism

Pac speaks the truth w/his heart and calls out his enemies directly

tough tough tough comparison

7Day Takes the cake

 

[angrymaninc]

LAD had maybe one wack joint The one with Lil Kim was horrible but besides that LAD Is a classic

hahahaha even that joint grew on me it's crazy lol

 

[rapmastermind]

pac put this album together in a week

biggie had skippers on LAD

7 Day Theory you can listen all the way through

Biggie shines w/storytelling and lyricism

Pac speaks the truth w/his heart and calls out his enemies directly

tough tough tough comparison

7Day Takes the cake

LAD is more critically acclaimed, sold more and is more influenial. With that said, you aren't a rap fan to me if "Hail Mary" didn't send shivers through your body when you 1st heard it Epic song, and a masterpiece. If there is anything wrong with "Makaveli" it's that the Outlaws did slightly bring it down but not enough to ruin it.

 

[thesynthesis]

i dont think anyone arguing that LAD aint a classic

Makaveli is however a classic

it depends on what u feel more....one can be put over the other, its not controversial to say that

j coles and fif's fav album is makaveli album

jada fav album is lad

its all opinions

 

[Me1971]

Also, I noticed that people at least acknowledge the fact that LAD had a couple of duds on it but if someone spends 18 months making an album it shouldn't have duds. IMO MAW didn't have any duds and it took Pac like a month to record that album since he was flying back and forth between LA, Georgia and NY for his court cases. And for the people who say Pac could've never created a masterpiece like LAD, we'll never know, Pac was notorious for just wanting to get his songs finished, he didn't even care too much about the beats he was rapping on in the last years of his life, he just wanted to get his thoughts on wax. Just couldn't imagine Pac focusing 18 months on one album.

Im not downing LAD, im just being an objective fan, i guess part of the reason why LAD is the best double album in hip hop is because of Big's lyrics and storytelling, Puff's vision, the poduction team and the amount of time and effort they put into the album. I wish Jay could've spent a lil more time on BP2.

 

[rapmastermind]

Also, I noticed that people at least acknowledge the fact that LAD had a couple of duds on it but if someone spends 18 months making an album it shouldn't have duds. IMO MAW didn't have any duds and it took Pac like a month to record that album since he was flying back and forth between LA, Georgia and NY for his court cases. And for the people who say Pac could've never created a masterpiece like LAD, we'll never know, Pac was notorious for just wanting to get his songs finished, he didn't even care too much about the beats he was rapping on in the last years of his life, he just wanted to get his thoughts on wax. Just couldn't imagine Pac focusing 18 months on one album.

Im not downing LAD, im just being an objective fan, i guess part of the reason why LAD is the best double album in hip hop is because of Big's lyrics and storytelling, Puff's vision, the poduction team and the amount of time and effort they put into the album. I wish Jay could've spent a lil more time on BP2.

"LAD" is considered the best double LP cause it was Big's last album and let's be honest, there were just some amazing records on it. "All Eyes On Me" was just as great of a double LP but Pac had a little more "Duds" per say than Big had, plus Big's double had less songs and less collabo's so it just made it more cohesive and well put together. And you can't front on the Production, I think LAD might have best set of producers for an LP in Rap History. But don't get twisted, Pac did make a masterpiece, that was "Me Against The World". I wouldn't call "AEOM or Makaveli" masterpieces but they are Classics for sure. Big just knocked it out the park with RTD and LAD. Yes LAD has more filler songs but again 2 or 3 filler songs on a 24 song album means Big was like shooting 90% on that.

Pac was just a madman in the studio, it was all about making the song, like you said, sometimes the beat wasn't even done yet which is why Pac had mad accapella's ready to go. I truely admire Pac's work Ethic. I cannot think of a rapper who had a better work ethic than Pac. What he accomplished from 91 when he got signed to 96 is really unparrel. Big comes in 2nd for most done in a short period of time since he had less years than Pac. Overall it's hard, RTD & LAD are like 2 of the greatest rap records ever recorded, To Me Tupac's only Top 10 LP is "Me Against The World" with that said "AEOM" & "Makaveli" Are in my opinion within the Top 30 rap albums ever. So Big and Pac have 5 LP's in the Top 30 all time, which is why they will never leave GOAT discussions. What helps Pac is his work ethetic was so strong his catalog lenth matches the like of Jay Z, NaS, Eminem and other emcees who have long careers. What's sad is they died at 24 and 25, they really had so much more to give but Fate and Destiny had other plans.

 

[Me1971]

"LAD" is considered the best double LP cause it was Big's last album and let's be honest, there were just some amazing records on it. "All Eyes On Me" was just as great of a double LP but Pac had a little more "Duds" per say than Big had, plus Big's double had less songs and less collabo's so it just made it more cohesive and well put together. And you can't front on the Production, I think LAD might have best set of producers for an LP in Rap History. But don't get twisted, Pac did make a masterpiece, that was "Me Against The World". I wouldn't call "AEOM or Makaveli" masterpieces but they are Classics for sure. Big just knocked it out the park with RTD and LAD. Yes LAD has more filler songs but again 2 or 3 filler songs on a 24 song album means Big was like shooting 90% on that.

Pac was just a madman in the studio, it was all about making the song, like you said, sometimes the beat wasn't even done yet which is why Pac had mad accapella's ready to go. I truely admire Pac's work Ethic. I cannot think of a rapper who had a better work ethic than Pac. What he accomplished from 91 when he got signed to 96 is really unparrel. Big comes in 2nd for most done in a short period of time since he had less years than Pac. Overall it's hard, RTD & LAD are like 2 of the greatest rap records ever recorded, To Me Tupac's only Top 10 LP is "Me Against The World" with that said "AEOM" & "Makaveli" Are in my opinion within the Top 30 rap albums ever. So Big and Pac have 5 LP's in the Top 30 all time, which is why they will never leave GOAT discussions. What helps Pac is his work ethetic was so strong his catalog lenth matches the like of Jay Z, NaS, Eminem and other emcees who have long careers. What's sad is they died at 24 and 25, they really had so much more to give but Fate and Destiny had other plans.

I agree with everything you said but I feel like MAW and Makaveli are two of Pacs undeniable classics. The 15 track original version of Makaveli is very cinematic and well put together but its no LAD considering they only had 4 days to mix the album. Pac is just a lil more impressive to me because he didn't have a Puffy (someone in his corner with great musical vision) in his corner to guide him through projects and he was real involved with his projects, he even helped make some of the beats on Makaveli and alot of those melodies were his idea so Pac was his own Puffy lol. But yeah you made some really great points. And I do give it up to Big because I would still feel as though LAD was the best double album in hip hop history even if it wasn't his last album. The only one who would've rivaled him would've been Nas had he realeased I Am...Nastradumus like he intended to do in 98. Wu Tang Forever and All Eyes on Me are the only contenders right now in my eyes.

 

[south4life]

I liked both albums but, I always go back to listen to Makaveli.

Biggie did his thing on LAD but, for him to take so long on the album and have 2 or 3 songs that ain't hitting, is not a good look.

Pac did Makaveli in 7 days and that is a solid album, even the OG version was on point.

Songs from the OG Makaveli album have been hits too.

Pac did All Eyes on Me quick too only one song on there that I think could have been taken off and that's What'z Ya Phone #.