The Official 2pac Versus Biggie Thread...

[a_list]

how are posters gonna get mad at big for dissing a dead man when they make threads to diss a dead man who they never met in their life//sheeeeiiit at least big had a reason

yo these cats are wild.....yo on the real tho if lkg was tweaked or whatever after pac's demise thats foul....im no fan of pac but that shyt shouldnt have made the album if u ask me....another thing why dont we make nas, ghost, raekwon, jeru the damaga and others out to be super tough because b.i.g responded to them subliminally or didnt respond at all

 

[thesynthesis]

Whats one line in Long Kiss that leads you to believe Biggie took a shot a Pac?

shout outs to rapmastermind for this post, i know he gonna be a lil mad with me callin big a coward though

Yes, Yes and now I give you all the official lyrical breakdown of "Long Kiss Goodnight"

"Long Kiss Goodnight"

[CHORUS]
TIME, TIME FOR YOU To DIE
AS I KISS--YOur--ASS--GOODNIGHT

I make your mouthpiece obese like Della Reese (Della Reese is a Legendary Black Actress who is overweight)
When I release, you loose teeth like Little Cease (Lil' Cease lost his front teeth in the car accident he caused with Biggie and Carlibaltimore
Nigga please
Blood floods your dungarees (Pac was famous for wearing Dungarees jeans)
And that's just a half of my warpath
Laugh now cry later, I rhyme greater (Pac has a tatoo of a Laughing face and a crying face)
than the average player hater, and spectators
Buy my CD twice
They see me in the streets they be like you he nice
But that's on the low doe' (Biggie is talking about how he can make a Double CD just a good as Pac and that people on the West liked him on the low)
be the cats with no dough, tried to play me at my show
I pull out 4-4's, and go up in they clothes (This is more a diss to the underground rappers going at Big at the time)
Short-change niggas
snort-cane niggas
extortion came quicker
Bought the Range' nigga
You still tickle me
I used to be as strong as ripple, till Little Cease crippled me (Car Accident Reference again)
Now I play hard-like my girls nipples be
The games sour like like a pickle be
You all know the rules
Move from BK to New Jerus
Thinking 'bout, all the planes we flew
Bitches, we ran through
Now the years new
I lay my game flat
I want my spot back, take two (Here he's saying that 97 is his year after 96 was Pac's. By saying "Take Two" it's a double meaning. He's telling Pac to take 2nd Place but it's also a movie referece cause a director does "Takes" during a scene. Pac was an actor so it was like Big telling him to have another take or "Try again")
Motherfuckers mad 'cause I blew, niggas envious
Too many niggas on my dick, shit's strenuous
When my men bust, you just move wit such stamina
Slugs missed you
I ain't mad at you (we ain't mad at you) (Biggie felt that Pac was actually jealous of his success and mad that he blew up very quickly. "We Ain't Mad A You" is a clear Pac reference to his Classic song of the same title. "Slugs Miss Ya" can be interpeted as Big eluding to the Quad Studio Shooting)
Blood rushing, concussions, ain't nothing
Catch cases, come out fronting
Smoking something (Pac had a lot of cases at the time, and that was the time he changed on Biggie was during all his cases.)
Sipping White Russians, bitch in the Benz bumping
I laced it wit the basic
6 TV's, a system, knocking Mase shit, face it
We hard to hit
Guard your shit, for I stick you, for your re-up
Wipe the "Pee" up
Mix shots, "work your seat up"
Go in the ashtray, spark the weed up
LONG KISS

[CHORUS X 2]

UH-I flaming gats, aiming at, these fucking...
Maniacs put my name in raps--"support them" (Pac played a crazy chacater in "Juice" thus Big calling him a "Maniac" or crazy. Also Pac mentioned Big in many of his rhymes and songs.)
Games datLike they hustle backwards (Big is saying Pac is hustling backwards by mentioning him in his raps cause Pac was the Bigger artist so Big is saying, "Why are you mentioning me when you are suspose to be the Don? that's hustling backwards")
I smoke backwards, and Duchees
Ya can't touch me
Try to rush me
Slugs go, touchy-touchy
You're bleeding lovely, with you, spirit above me
or beneath me, your whole life you live sneaky
Now you rest eternally, sleepy, you burn when you creep me
Rest where the worms-n-the weak be
My nine flies, baptize, rap guys
With the holy ghost
I put holes in most, you hold your toast shakey
Slip-n-trying to break me
Look what you made me do, brains blue
My team in the Marine blew, six-coupe
Skiid it out, weeded out, clean it out
The block for distance is, given long kisses bitch (Sadly yes this whole rhyme refers to Pac's actual death, Big took the gloves off with those bars as he describes Pac's death from life to spirituality, kinda creepy)

[CHORUS X 2]

Frank White the menacing, craw-craw's demenacin
I got the lettuce in
You turn green like cucumber skin got the new hummer in the summer when I was a new comer
then drugs and mac-10's
Hug from fake friends
Make ends they hate you, be broke girls won't date you (Once again Big refers to Pac as being a hater of his success. He also responds to "Hit Em Up's" famous "I begged Bitches to fuck you" line as Big answers that his doe was low, of course he wasn't getting hoes like Pac.)
That's why I relate to, choke your ass 'til your face blue, make you
Open the safe too
No matter how you call it (how you call it)
This "bralick", alcoholic
Like his weed green'd out like his brick solid
Distribute to kids who, take heart like Valentine, drink Valentine, all the time
Slugs hit you chest tap the spine
Flat-line
Heard through the grapevine, you got fucked foe times
Damn that three to nine, fucked you up for real doe'
"Slink steal slow"
As you remorse we feel no (Again Big is refering to Pac's stay at Rikers and the rumors that he was in fact raped during his stay their. He's also eluding agian to his actual death)

....................................................................

 

[gman82]

Biggie Lost, he dont get no points for LKG. How do you diss a dead man and make fun of his death on wax? Regardless of their issues, big shouldnt have recorded the track. Especially when he doing interviews after Pac death talking about how he didn't wish death on Pac and how he wished they could of resolved their issue. Thats BS. Imagine if 50 would of made a diss track about Big Bun after Pun died. (Pun dissed 50 on "My Turn") Ya'll would be calling for his head! Same rules apply!

 

[thesynthesis]

Biggie Lost, he dont get no points for LKG. How do you diss a dead man and make fun of his death on wax? Regardless of their issues, big shouldnt have recorded the track. Especially when he doing interviews after Pac death talking about how he didn't wish death on Pac and how he wished they could of resolved their issue. Thats BS. Imagine if 50 would of made a diss track about Big Bun after Pun died. (Pun dissed 50 on "My Turn") Ya'll would be calling for his head! Same rules apply!

true story,

 

[rapmastermind]

WHY!!!!!!! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must you guys reach? LOL, I guess it's human nature (shout to MJ) As a fan of Hip Hop it's just getting annoying. Since I did the famous lyrical breakdown of "Long Kiss" and I've talked to people who know the situation, let me break it down. 1st and foremost, Thesysthesis, I think sometimes you make great points on certain topics but the Big/Pac debate sometimes emotion gets in the way, hey some may say I'm the same way but here's my point. You guys are still uptight about "Long Kiss Goodnight" which was a subliminal is proof that regardless it was a viscous record. At the end of the day, "Who Shot Ya and Long Kiss Goodnight" are both considered Classic records. Now if you look at the time line and the fact Pac name was never said an either of those songs, one could come to the conclusion that neither were disses but Big was extremely lyrical so you be the judge. "Who Shot Ya" was not a Pac diss, audio evidence is out there that proves it.

Now yes, Puffy did re-work the song as a solo record without Keith Murray so I could see why Systh feels it was re-worked to fuel the beef but Pac still over-racted about that song. As for Long Kiss, "LAD" was recorded for 18 months, the last 6 months of recording was after Pac died and 3 of those 6 months Biggie could barely walk and didn't little to no recording. Well over 70% of the album was already recorded when Pac died, it's original release date was Halloween 96' but after Big's accident the whole album was pushed back another 5 months for him to recover (Big also found out he had asthma during his hospital stay). Now it's a known fact that after "Hit Em Up" was released in June of 96', Big was already in the recording process for LAD.

There were at best 3 different Versions of "LKG", the 1st version was an accapella with no beat that Lil Cease talked about in XXL and that will never see the light of day cause it was obviously horrible and Big most likely went in on Pac something serious. Then Pac dies and they bring in RZA to do the beat, The song is then reworked and certain lyrics stayed and others went. The raw stripped down version, Big is talking shit at the end of the song and Capadonna and Rza were talking shit with him, then the LP version, Puff takes out Rza and Capadonna as well as Big talking shit and replaces it with himself talking shit (Yes Puff was going at Pac and Suge in his rant). The "Lil Cease Cripple Me" is about the car accident, as well as teeth, so parts of LKG were done after's Pac's death but those were the parts to clean up the Pac disses but some of those disses stayed in. In the end the point of the reworking was to make it sound like Big was spitting lyrics instead of going at Pac. Let's be real, Big was upset about everything, "LAD" was his answer to everyone hating including Pac so Big was really ready to go in. "LAD" is probably the most lyrically subliminal album ever made, trying to figure out all the disses is like a damn lyrical exam.

Now what I find is funny is dudes are upset at Big for going at Pac after he died even though he was recording the album for over a year before Pac died. Yet nobody is talking about the countless disses Pac did at Big?. Pac threatening to kill Big's children on wax? Talking about bonin his wife, None of that matters. But Oh No, God Forbid Big say 1 thing back at Pac. LOL. Also They were both dead when the song and album was released. As for the time line, Big was in the process of recording his album. Hit em up dropped again in June 96 on the "How Do You Want It" maxi single, so if LAD was to drop in 10/31/96, that would of been 5 months later. "Ether" Dropped 5 months after Takeover. "Hit Em up" came out a year and a half after "Who Shot Ya". Plenty of times in Hip Hop there isn't a quick response after a major diss. Pac was dead 3 months after Hit Em Up, Sorry Biggie didn't respond in 3 months but again he was workin on his album. After Pac's death, everything changed and Big out of respect for Pac changed a lot of lyrics but you can read between the lines, he was still going at Pac but it was more addressing it, remember, Pac did all the talking before, "LAD" was the response. Big wasn't a coward for making "LKG", he was defending himself and I'm glad he did it, it gives you perspective to his viewpoint. There my rant is over, lol. My final point is for all the disses and interviews of Pac disrespecting Biggie, is it really that bad he threw a few subliminals at him?. Damn I just got my Tromp on, lol.

 

[lion_heart]

LMFAO @ any nigga believing that their are 3 versions of LKGN. You dumb niggas think Puff has that shit stored away? That shit would have leaked ages ago. You got the album version and the version with BIG and Cappadonna talking shit.

 

[Antwuan89]

Great read rapmastermind I did read in Biggie's Unbelievable book that he was finished with recording LAD in January of 1997.

I have a question rapmastermind-Are you on Notoriousonline.org?

 

[its....JOHN B]

Badboy have told countless lies to the point of even denying it was a 2pac diss.

The different accounts always seemed suspect

However you only have to LISTEN to what BIG is rappin about to figure out the song was indeed (like most believed) recorded after Pac died

used to be as strong as ripple, till Little Cease crippled me

 

[T. Sanford]

Why was Cappadonna on Long Kiss Goodnight for?

aint he a cab driver?

 

[PanchoYoSancho]

Going-Going back-back to Cali-Cali.............to get killed.

 

[rapmastermind]

Great read rapmastermind I did read in Biggie's Unbelievable book that he was finished with recording LAD in January of 1997.

I have a question rapmastermind-Are you on Notoriousonline.org?

I've posted on that site back in the day and drop some comments from time to time, but that board has gone through problems over the years, it's mostly old school Biggie fans up there but that site use to be crazy for accapella, and original Big tracks.

"slugs missed ya"

 

[SupremeXXV]

more like a jab at his own wife lol

dont see how that is a jab at pac...........

war is over once ur enemy is dead

Says who? I bet the US would never say Osama was a cool guy just because his ass is dead...I fucks with BIG and Pac and I didn't agree with alot of shit that Pac said about BIG and I didn't agree with BIG dissing Pac after his death...But I understand...For all we know, Biggie probably HATED Pac with a passion, so just because that nigga got killed, dosen't mean BIG was all of a sudden going to have a change of heart.

 

[Antwuan89]

rapmastermind-I remember you on that site back in the day. My username on there is Twuan89.

 

[Fazeem_Blackall]

^^^^we have a winner. Cease is talkin about the re-recorded version being a one-nighter. the original was made 3 months after Hit em up after Death Row and Bad Boy met face2face @ soul train. it was gna be on the "stop yapping niggaz" mixtape. once Pac got killed, BIG toned it down for the version we have now. LOL at the toned down version still being a top 2 diss record of all time....LOL
this da mixtape it was gna be on

Come on now that is only some shit a Stan would say Long Kiss Goodnight is not even in the Top 10 diss songs of all time much less the top 3.

In Case you are Confused as to what those are this is the order...

#1 Ether

#2 No Vaseline

#3 Hit Em Up

All 3 terms are still used to talk shit to this day showing the actual Impact of each song on Hip Hop and Pop culture, not 1 kat alive says You got the Long Kiss Goodnight to talk shit...

 

[Melanin_Enriched]

I prefer long kiss goodnight, but that's just me.

 

[its....JOHN B]

I've posted on that site back in the day and drop some comments from time to time, but that board has gone through problems over the years, it's mostly old school Biggie fans up there but that site use to be crazy for accapella, and original Big tracks.

That version of the 2 of the 3 versions to my knowledge and Biggie was talking crazy at the end talking about he was the Nicest rapper in the game period. Cap and Rza was agreeing with him. Puff took all them off and went and had his rant. I looked on Youtube to repost it but they took them all down. I guess Puff found out and put the copy write out. Puffy never wanted the orignial version out, I'm sure he either destroyed it or it's in the vault and the lyrics will be reworked for future Biggie remixes. Rza supposedly leaked the raw version without Puff permission cause the Hitmen reworked a little of his beat on the album version and Rza said he's more a fan of the gritty version but loves how the song turned out in the end.


Cap was in the studio with Big and Rza and there was a rumor Meth was there. God, I wish Meth had a verse over the Long Kiss beat, it would of been a dope follow up to "The What".

yea now its starting to come back to me, i forget exactly what he was saying but i remember him going off on why he was getting at him subliminally and why he wouldnt mention his name or some shit

 

[its....JOHN B]

how did you get "support them" out of "what part the"? shit dont even make sense

 

[lion_heart]

I've posted on that site back in the day and drop some comments from time to time, but that board has gone through problems over the years, it's mostly old school Biggie fans up there but that site use to be crazy for accapella, and original Big tracks.

That version of the 2 of the 3 versions to my knowledge and Biggie was talking crazy at the end talking about he was the Nicest rapper in the game period. Cap and Rza was agreeing with him. Puff took all them off and went and had his rant. I looked on Youtube to repost it but they took them all down. I guess Puff found out and put the copy write out. Puffy never wanted the orignial version out, I'm sure he either destroyed it or it's in the vault and the lyrics will be reworked for future Biggie remixes. Rza supposedly leaked the raw version without Puff permission cause the Hitmen reworked a little of his beat on the album version and Rza said he's more a fan of the gritty version but loves how the song turned out in the end.

Cap was in the studio with Big and Rza and there was a rumor Meth was there. God, I wish Meth had a verse over the Long Kiss beat, it would of been a dope follow up to "The What".

Again who do you believe, Puffy who wants to keep the (We never dissed Pac) Image or Cease who was in the studio during times Puff wasn't even there. Cease was talking about the accapella version, the point is Big was going to asnwer "Hit Em Up" but Pac died and out of respect he changed it up and did exactly what you guys are saying he didn't. By not keeping the harsher original version it showed he respected that Pac had just died and wasn't going to fuel the flames. Sadly he didn't even know he would be dead before the song saw the light of day.

Aside from Cease (Who is Image?) who else has said they've heard this other version of LKG? It was unusual for Puff to not be in the studio while BIG was recording. BIG's people say he wouldn't record when Puff was in the studio. All that extra stuff that Puff would say on the album happened when BIG left the studio. Cut the bullshit about out of respect for Pac dying. He was still going at Pac on that record and BIG spit a verse while he was on the Wake Up Show in Cali after Pac died.

In the end the point is Puff is a businessman. He would not erase BIG's vocals without BIG being pissed at him. And if Puff had this other version it would have leaked years ago.

 

[rapmastermind]

how did you get "support them" out of "what part the"? shit dont even make sense

I copied the lyrics from OHHLA site, they be having wrong lyrics sometimes. But overall they are pretty good source.

rapmastermind-I remember you on that site back in the day. My username on there is Twuan89.

Oh snap, What up Twuan89, yea that board crashed a few times plus I didn't post up there that much but I have again dropped comments from time to time. I always got love for that board cause I got so many gems from Big I never even heard, that board showed me that Big's catalog is more extensive than people think. Puff is lying, there is more Biggie verses, he's just waiting to milked them for future anniversaries. There is an Onyx and Biggie song that still isn't released. Fat Joe has a song that hasn't come out. Jay is rumored to have 2 more songs with Big that still isn't out. Puff and Biggie's estate are holding on to them joints crazy tight. Ok, I just listed to the RZA RAW VERSION and here's what Biggie said at the end:

Biggie: "I tried to be on some Humble shit but fuck that, it's time to toot my own horn, toot, toot, motherfucka, I'm the nicest nigga in the game, it's time to face motherfuckin facts. Who's fuckin with me on the Lyrics sides? see me, Wordplay, See me, Fist Fights, See Me Nigga, The Only reason I ain't namin no names, cause I don't want to give you bitch ass niggas a chance to sell a few units" (That's was about Pac)

What's crazy is Big sounded so Angry when saying this, it's like he was tried of all the hating. Both Rza and Cap are talking too but it's hard to hear what they are saying cause of the beat.

[video=youtube;T5uCGCT8pqQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5uCGCT8pqQ[/video]

Biggie and Onyx in the studio, song still unreleased. Naughty and Jam Master Jay were there also.

 

[rapmastermind]

Aside from Cease (Who is Image?) who else has said they've heard this other version of LKG? It was unusual for Puff to not be in the studio while BIG was recording. BIG's people say he wouldn't record when Puff was in the studio. All that extra stuff that Puff would say on the album happened when BIG left the studio. Cut the bullshit about out of respect for Pac dying. He was still going at Pac on that record and BIG spit a verse while he was on the Wake Up Show in Cali after Pac died.

In the end the point is Puff is a businessman. He would not erase BIG's vocals without BIG being pissed at him. And if Puff had this other version it would have leaked years ago.

That's why I said if he didn't erase them, they are in the vault and will be reworked as new lyrics for a future remix. I'm not saying Puff wasn't in the studio with Big a lot, obviously he was, but there was time Big would record and not want Puff in the studio. Cease was with Big in almost 95% of the studio sessions, he was around Big all the time. As for Image, Puff always claiming Biggie never dissed Pac on record so he can't let the original LKG come out. Especially if Big is saying Pac name (Supposedly the 1st version Pac's name is said).

Biggie only said Pac's name on 2 records. "Brooklyn's Finest" (Probably have two Pac's, get it 2Pac) and "Can I get wit cha" (My name ain't Tupac, I don't get around, you hitting up nigga how that sound). That was it. And neither of those are really disses, one was really going at Faith but Big was mocking Pac like (Ok, yea you hit it, so what). The other Big was just biggin up a Pac song while telling a story. I don't think Cease has a reason to lie were as Puffy has been known to lie about tons of things. Cease creditibility I believe more. That's scary to know that Cease and maybe a few others may have been the only ones to hear the 1st version of LKG.