Ajackson17;9028621 said:
zzombie;9028225 said:
Ajackson17;9028142 said:
How do you even attempt to prove a deity even exists? What method did you use, what testing and experimentation did you do? Do you have an encounter that you could definitely prove and show us to quantify what you are saying? Or is it just belief?
you cannot prove a god exists to someone else because a god has agency and power of it's own a god would have to reveal himself to you. I cannot tell you how I know god exists but I can tell you how to find god on your own I can put you on the path and you can find god on your own but you would have to be willing to actually do it.
An easier way to know for sure that the supernatural exists is to look to the negative aspects of the spiritual world because they will look into you. God and the positive aspects are working on your behalf everyday but most people are just not sensitive enough to pick up on it.
There are reasons I asked these questions because Luke said there is a definite way of proving God exists. Then I asked him a serious of questions to see how he knows this. You cannot say you can prove something and then don't prove it. That's retarded. Reeks of con-artistry.
i said obviously. get it right. i did not say definite. u say definite. what is obvious to some obviously is not to others. Just like it's obvious I wrote alot to explain just a few things that are obvious things that stand out to me of God's existence.
Really zzombie explained it quite well.
With me, these arguments don't so much interest me because I'm not the one questioning God's existence. You are. But, b/c you accuse and challenge me sometimes I get bored at work and might respond as such:
1-
Another example is the voice in your head. Prove it exists. What method do you use, test it, experiment it. There is a voice in my head, sometimes a voice that doesn't quite sound like my own and seems to just know something and is telling me something. Now, do I say inside my head there are no lips, there are no vocal chords, there is nothing to emit sound? Therefore I did not hear it. You can say it, but its obvious something is sometimes talking. I can argue with it, reason with it and differentiate the other voice from my own thoughts, but my thoughts or conscious is what you use to define it as. Once you figure out how many chromosomes something has, you therefore say this proves there is no God. What? So because I know a kid comes from sex or that a body conducts and emits electricity then all of a sudden THIS proves there is no God.
2-Proof of Jesus existence is good enough for me according to what I've read, but then for you and many like you will say its myth or mixed with lies. I can look at 66 different books written (proving God's direct existence but you don't accept it as evidence) and collected as the bible and thousands others omitted but written to confirm accounts all the way from Egypt to Syria to Greece to Palestine, Iran Ethiopia even China.
3-I can look at Josephus and Eusebius authors and historians who lived within 50-200 years of Jesus's departure writing on what happened in response to his leaving and how Christians formed to be more than a sect.
4-I can look at the order of things in the world as proof such as the ridiculous set of order set in place that obviously points to a creator or if not Christian or one who believes in a deity then it obviously points to life having come from somewhere else besides Earth who orchestrated this like a garden where everything survives off the other. And no, I don't believe it's just by accident, obviously. Also sidenote: since many planets of water, some carbon, light and yet no life exists. None & if it did I would be very interested to hear their accounts of their origin. Small clue into the order is (the earth moves at 46,000 mph, the sun is like a magnet holding planets in order, the moon acts as a balance for the tides, plants breathe in the carbon we exhale and we breathe in the oxygen they exhale keeping both of us alive, the balance of something being created in life yet also having a complete diet and the ability to procreate just in time before a species death and then death in many ways serving the revolution of life.
5-I can look at death and the fact that there has been non consistent or actual proof of what happens when you die as pointing to something else existing beyond life as we know it.
6-I can look to ouija boards or other attempts to call up evil in other forms that shows itself in the human world.
7-I can look at the energy in ur body having to be released in some non-physical form and obviously entering a metaphysical or state of existence without a body.
8-
I can look at the bible as the only book as constantly showing God's intervention while doing it through hundreds of people's families who still exist today in Palestine, Ethiopia, Greece, Rome and can still trace their family names and written accounts kept by Eastern Orthodox and Catholics to verify existence. On top of this and using real people that existed this is also the only book that has the creation of humans with names all the way to where we can trace today detailing an intricate account of man's relationship with God.
But to someone who doesn't read the bible and just reads on ways how to critique it then all the bible's direct examples don't matter to you. They do matter to me and are evidence.
9-I can look at the healing powers of prayer or even evil seances that sometimes have an effect on people (be it consciously or subconsciously--though some in hospitals are unconscious while others are praying for them)
10-I can look at many of the prophecies by these people coming true as evidence (which was part of their point in making the prophecy)
11-small things such as the bible saying God created light and from that came life and in 2016 it being confirmed that at the first collision of all organic life's conception point an incalculable measure of light is emitted. (again, not evidence but interesting). Or humans living much longer and taller if carbon in the atmosphere was more pure.
But my reasons aren't yours, so since you make an argument your point will be to refute or ridicule "my" belief and basis with challenges as if your beliefs cannot also be challenged. So I guess I'm supposed to keep defending my belief to someone who refuses to study on their own but wants me to engage in an endless argument to convince them of something they are set on discounting as folly. What's obvious to me, obviously is not so with you. Even though the voice in your head speaks to your heart
