The Bible says the book of Exodus never happened

[BiblicalAtheist]

I think Kingblaze honesty just wants one xtian to say, "You know what, you're right, fuck this xtianity shit!"

 

[kingblaze84]

The only reason I care a little about what Christian faith dictates is because of some of the preachers I run into on the subway train lol, otherwise it's pretty obvious I'm far from the religious type. I'm skeptical of anything that can't prove itself and therefore I'm skeptical about ALL religions, not just Christianity. I can believe there is a powerful force out there, but I don't see evidence the Bible god is even alive anymore, assuming it ever was alive.

Your faith seems strong, and I certainly respect that. I just don't see how the same Bible god that claims to be good and righteous can also be the same god that admits to creating evil and calamity. The Bible god, if real, seems extremely evil to me because it admits to creating literally ALL of the horrors of the world. Parasites, worms that grow out of peoples' skin and eyes, all kinds of naturally crazy shit. I'm not sure how Christians do it, but I personally could NEVER worship that kind of god. I would feel like I'm worshipping Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer lol, something more evil then them in fact.

But to each his own. A "god" like the Bible god that holds grudges after 2,000 plus years seems petty as fuck and unworthy of my worship. I'm still puzzled as to why anyone would worship a god like that.

I get where you're coming from. Any religious person that is honest will have to admit that they questioned their faith at some point. In my opinion, if they haven't they aren't true believers, they've just been indoctrinated. We don't have all the answers and religion is faith based, so everyone is going to run into something that makes them wonder.

I'm a scientist by training so I, like you, like to see empirical evidence for things. You're just not going to get that from Christianity. God wants us to live by faith, so taking that leap is something you have to do. For me, I was raised as a Christian, and went through a (long) phase where I didn't really live like a Christian. I always stayed connected in sense though because even though I didn't understand everything about the Bible (and still don't), I still believed Jesus' teachings were correct. I can definitely say that since I took steps to restore my faith, my life has gotten better. That's not to say everything is perfect or that there are no struggles, but I'm at peace and I've found myself either getting everything I needed/wanted or being able to deal more easily without having. That's really all I needed for me to believe God is real.

As for the other things you're saying, God created everything period. So yes evil and calamity are in that, but it didn't happen in the way you're making it seem. For instance, if God created light, then he also created darkness because darkness is just the absence of light. That doesn't mean that he purposely created a state where people can't see so that they'd stumble and hurt themselves. That's kinda how you're twisting things. From a Biblical standpoint, goodness and harmony come from God. Evil and calamity are analgous to darkness in that they are basically the opposite of those things. God is goodness, so evil is basically anything that opposes him. So in that sense, he created evil, but again, he didn't do it in the way or for the reasons that you're implying. The argument you're making about the worms and parasites seems kinda silly to me though. God created a world with diverse life. Life has evolved since he created it. I don't think God micromanages that type of thing just like I don't believe he's holding the earth and manually spinning it every day. Such misery that you mention was not present in the Garden of Eden, which was the place meant for mankind. It only came about afterwards as part of this imperfect world. What you seem to ignore is that this world is just a stepping stone to the next by Christian faith. So what if you live ~70 years of misery if it leads to you living the rest of eternity in bliss. Just think of Earth as a proving grounds or basic training. It may be rough and you may not understand why you have to go through it all, but if you make it through, things will become clear and it will be worth it in the end. I'm not sure what you mean by God holding a grudge for 2000+ years though.

I do believe there is something out there, but I wouldn't dismiss parasites as some silly thing, especially if you claim the Bible god created parasites on purpose. People and animals suffer greatly from these things, yet the Bible god claims to love all things lol, come on now. I do understand why some are religious, as I have experienced many of the beautiful things in life, but the Bible god just seems extremely crazy to me. You're working to be a scientist, so you must know of the crazy things that's out there, things that have made hundreds of millions of people worldwide doubt there even is a god.

And when I said a 2000 year grudge, I mean that Jesus "died for our sins" 2000 plus years ago, yet it seems the Bible god still has the grudge from the Adam and Eve days. So yeah that would be much longer obviously, but the Jewish stories said the real messiah would create harmony on Earth and atone for the sins of Adam and Eve. Jesus didn't really change anything on Earth when he died, as the Jews noted, so that's why I'm always puzzled at how some see Jesus as a "savior". But as you said, you have made that true GIANT leap of faith, and that's fine. I just don't see how the Bible god has proved itself on Earth, perhaps I watched too many superhero cartoons growing up and have high expectations of what a real savior is supposed to be.

 

[kingblaze84]

I think Kingblaze honesty just wants one xtian to say, "You know what, you're right, fuck this xtianity shit!"

Not necessarily, I'm just giving my thoughts on the subject. Most people I know are actually former Christians, which is kind of interesting. Or maybe not, since I'm a former Christian myself.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

I was just teasing you King

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I do believe there is something out there, but I wouldn't dismiss parasites as some silly thing, especially if you claim the Bible god created parasites on purpose. People and animals suffer greatly from these things, yet the Bible god claims to love all things lol, come on now. I do understand why some are religious, as I have experienced many of the beautiful things in life, but the Bible god just seems extremely crazy to me. You're working to be a scientist, so you must know of the crazy things that's out there, things that have made hundreds of millions of people worldwide doubt there even is a god.

And when I said a 2000 year grudge, I mean that Jesus "died for our sins" 2000 plus years ago, yet it seems the Bible god still has the grudge from the Adam and Eve days. So yeah that would be much longer obviously, but the Jewish stories said the real messiah would create harmony on Earth and atone for the sins of Adam and Eve. Jesus didn't really change anything on Earth when he died, as the Jews noted, so that's why I'm always puzzled at how some see Jesus as a "savior". But as you said, you have made that true GIANT leap of faith, and that's fine. I just don't see how the Bible god has proved itself on Earth, perhaps I watched too many superhero cartoons growing up and have high expectations of what a real savior is supposed to be.

I've learned things that have made people doubt God's existence. I've learned things that have made people believe even more that God exists. It's all about perspective. The problem with the parasites and suffering argument is that it presupposes that a creator that loves its creation must make it so that creation faces no pain, hardship, or adversity. I don't believe that's true. Again, God started humanity off in the Garden of Eden, and humanity screwed that up. One of the messages you can take from that story is that we can't just be handed paradise. If we are, we will inevitably take it for granted and do something to lose it. As you've noted there is good and beauty in the world. It's completely reasonable to believe that there should also be evil and ugliness. That's just balance not any particular animus from God.

Part of your problem is that you're kinda putting your own feelings onto God even in cases where the Bibles suggests his motivations are something completely different. Your describing God's feeling towards sin as a grudge kinda misses the point. God hates sin. Humans didn't stop sinning after the Garden of Eden. As a species, we've engaged in sin more and more. If God begrudged in the way you suggest, he wouldn't have sent Jesus, an aspect of himself, down to earth to die. You're also definitely missing the point of Jesus. He didn't come to Earth to change anything here. That should be pretty clear from the fact that sin persists to the point that the Earth will eventually be cleansed. We say Jesus saves because of what he offers beyond what is on Earth. Through him we can be saved, and we don't have to sacrifice animals or adhere to hundreds of nitpicky laws. We just have to believe in him and seek to be like him.

Your perspective seems to be from a person who thinks all that exists is this physical world we see. If that's the case, there isn't much I can tell you that will change your mind. However, if you believe there is more than just this physical plane, then you should be open to the idea that your existence here isn't the end all and be all and that whatever experiences you have here may be nothing compared to what awaits when you leave this plane.

 

[kingblaze84]

I was just teasing you King

; D

 

[kingblaze84]

I do believe there is something out there, but I wouldn't dismiss parasites as some silly thing, especially if you claim the Bible god created parasites on purpose. People and animals suffer greatly from these things, yet the Bible god claims to love all things lol, come on now. I do understand why some are religious, as I have experienced many of the beautiful things in life, but the Bible god just seems extremely crazy to me. You're working to be a scientist, so you must know of the crazy things that's out there, things that have made hundreds of millions of people worldwide doubt there even is a god.

And when I said a 2000 year grudge, I mean that Jesus "died for our sins" 2000 plus years ago, yet it seems the Bible god still has the grudge from the Adam and Eve days. So yeah that would be much longer obviously, but the Jewish stories said the real messiah would create harmony on Earth and atone for the sins of Adam and Eve. Jesus didn't really change anything on Earth when he died, as the Jews noted, so that's why I'm always puzzled at how some see Jesus as a "savior". But as you said, you have made that true GIANT leap of faith, and that's fine. I just don't see how the Bible god has proved itself on Earth, perhaps I watched too many superhero cartoons growing up and have high expectations of what a real savior is supposed to be.

I've learned things that have made people doubt God's existence. I've learned things that have made people believe even more that God exists. It's all about perspective. The problem with the parasites and suffering argument is that it presupposes that a creator that loves its creation must make it so that creation faces no pain, hardship, or adversity. I don't believe that's true. Again, God started humanity off in the Garden of Eden, and humanity screwed that up. One of the messages you can take from that story is that we can't just be handed paradise. If we are, we will inevitably take it for granted and do something to lose it. As you've noted there is good and beauty in the world. It's completely reasonable to believe that there should also be evil and ugliness. That's just balance not any particular animus from God.

Part of your problem is that you're kinda putting your own feelings onto God even in cases where the Bibles suggests his motivations are something completely different. Your describing God's feeling towards sin as a grudge kinda misses the point. God hates sin. Humans didn't stop sinning after the Garden of Eden. As a species, we've engaged in sin more and more. If God begrudged in the way you suggest, he wouldn't have sent Jesus, an aspect of himself, down to earth to die. You're also definitely missing the point of Jesus. He didn't come to Earth to change anything here. That should be pretty clear from the fact that sin persists to the point that the Earth will eventually be cleansed. We say Jesus saves because of what he offers beyond what is on Earth. Through him we can be saved, and we don't have to sacrifice animals or adhere to hundreds of nitpicky laws. We just have to believe in him and seek to be like him.

Your perspective seems to be from a person who thinks all that exists is this physical world we see. If that's the case, there isn't much I can tell you that will change your mind. However, if you believe there is more than just this physical plane, then you should be open to the idea that your existence here isn't the end all and be all and that whatever experiences you have here may be nothing compared to what awaits when you leave this plane.

I'm sorry, did you say that a creator who makes us wants us to suffer from parasites in order to build character? Let's say a father and a mother puts their 5 kids in a bath tub with a bunch of rattlesnakes and ebola filled water. Would you consider that building a child's character? Most parents discipline their children and might even withhold pleasures if a child misbehaves, but we wouldn't consider it building character if we put our kids in ebola filled bathwater. If a parent did that, they would be considered mentally ill or a horrible parent. A mother put her kid in the oven for a few minutes the other day because he was misbehaving, is that building character? Nah, that's just evil. I won't give the so called Bible god a pass because it claims (without proof) that it made the entire world. Evil is evil. Again, the Bible god claims to have created evil.

BTW, I'm very aware there is much more to the universe then just this world. As I said before, I do believe there is a higher power out there, but it just seems Jesus and the Bible god are weak for a "god". Jesus himself cried out to "his father" in the Bible, but Jesus could not defeat his persecutors. They seem helpless and powerless in virtually every way, what happened to the Jewish legends Jesus was supposed to fulfill? Did Jesus forget about them, even 2,000 years later?

I sincerely hope there is an afterlife and I actually think there is one for some reason. But it seems Jesus doesn't have any interest in ACTUALLY helping humanity. Why so much laziness, after 2000 years of the false promise to come back quickly?

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I'm sorry, did you say that a creator who makes us wants us to suffer from parasites in order to build character? Let's say a father and a mother puts their 5 kids in a bath tub with a bunch of rattlesnakes and ebola filled water. Would you consider that building a child's character? Most parents discipline their children and might even withhold pleasures if a child misbehaves, but we wouldn't consider it building character if we put our kids in ebola filled bathwater. If a parent did that, they would be considered mentally ill or a horrible parent. A mother put her kid in the oven for a few minutes the other day because he was misbehaving, is that building character? Nah, that's just evil. I won't give the so called Bible god a pass because it claims (without proof) that it made the entire world. Evil is evil.

BTW, I'm very aware there is much more to the universe then just this world. As I said before, I do believe there is a higher power out there, but it just seems Jesus and the Bible god are weak for a "god". Jesus himself cried out to "his father" in the Bible, but Jesus could not defeat his persecutors. They seem helpless and powerless in virtually every way, what happened to the Jewish legends Jesus was supposed to fulfill? Did Jesus forget about them, even 2,000 years later?

I sincerely hope there is an afterlife and I actually think there is one for some reason. But it seems Jesus doesn't have any interest in ACTUALLY helping humanity. Why so much laziness, after 2000 years of the false promise to come back quickly?

Again, humanity was not meant to deal with the horrors that you keep throwing out. God created a paradise for mankind. Mankind simply proved to be unworthy of it. And that's why we were relegated to a world with misery, and yes it is to build us up and essentially test our worthiness for paradise. I don't think your analogy is really reflective of the point I'm making. I would think of it more like the Marines or other military groups. Life prior to accepting Christ is like basic training. It's rough and some people won't make it, but it's designed to screen for the right people, those willing to accept Christ. Then once you accept Christ, your life in Christ is like a career in the military. It's still going to be hard and full of adversity, but at that point you should have the tools to deal with it and find joy in whatever you face. Dying as a believer is like retiring from the military and getting fat retirement. Here in the DC area, you see these dudes living it up because they progressed and got a nice retirement and also got the credentials they need to pull fat checks. So they sit pretty. Same thing with Christianity, by choosing Christ you get salvation and by living in Christ, you build up your heavenly rewards. A relatively small physical existence that has some misery and some happiness is a small price to pay for an eternity of bliss. I don't really think you factor that in. You keep harping on these parasites, but the pain those cause is nothing compared to an eternity in Heaven.

You seem to miss the point of Jesus. Jesus was God in the flesh, but he was still a human. When it was his time to die, he was afraid, just as all humans have a fear of death. That's the whole point. You're not supposed to look at Jesus as if he was above humanity in that way, if he was, his life and death would have been pointless. As far as the prophecies of the Bible and what Jesus is supposed to do, they simply haven't happened. The Bible says no one knows when they will happen. This stuff works on God's time, not ours.

And saying Jesus has no interest in helping humanity is something you'd believe as a nonbeliever. Anyone who believes will gladly rattle off dozens of things Jesus and God have done to help them and those around them.

 

[matches malone]

Who knows, maybe 10,000 years from now, aliens or whoever has control of Earth will think X-Men and Spider-Man were real people.

youre joking but I honestly believe this will happen. superman is basically a retelling of christ anyway

 

[kingblaze84]

I'm sorry, did you say that a creator who makes us wants us to suffer from parasites in order to build character? Let's say a father and a mother puts their 5 kids in a bath tub with a bunch of rattlesnakes and ebola filled water. Would you consider that building a child's character? Most parents discipline their children and might even withhold pleasures if a child misbehaves, but we wouldn't consider it building character if we put our kids in ebola filled bathwater. If a parent did that, they would be considered mentally ill or a horrible parent. A mother put her kid in the oven for a few minutes the other day because he was misbehaving, is that building character? Nah, that's just evil. I won't give the so called Bible god a pass because it claims (without proof) that it made the entire world. Evil is evil.

BTW, I'm very aware there is much more to the universe then just this world. As I said before, I do believe there is a higher power out there, but it just seems Jesus and the Bible god are weak for a "god". Jesus himself cried out to "his father" in the Bible, but Jesus could not defeat his persecutors. They seem helpless and powerless in virtually every way, what happened to the Jewish legends Jesus was supposed to fulfill? Did Jesus forget about them, even 2,000 years later?

I sincerely hope there is an afterlife and I actually think there is one for some reason. But it seems Jesus doesn't have any interest in ACTUALLY helping humanity. Why so much laziness, after 2000 years of the false promise to come back quickly?

Again, humanity was not meant to deal with the horrors that you keep throwing out. God created a paradise for mankind. Mankind simply proved to be unworthy of it. And that's why we were relegated to a world with misery, and yes it is to build us up and essentially test our worthiness for paradise. I don't think your analogy is really reflective of the point I'm making. I would think of it more like the Marines or other military groups. Life prior to accepting Christ is like basic training. It's rough and some people won't make it, but it's designed to screen for the right people, those willing to accept Christ. Then once you accept Christ, your life in Christ is like a career in the military. It's still going to be hard and full of adversity, but at that point you should have the tools to deal with it and find joy in whatever you face. Dying as a believer is like retiring from the military and getting fat retirement. Here in the DC area, you see these dudes living it up because they progressed and got a nice retirement and also got the credentials they need to pull fat checks. So they sit pretty. Same thing with Christianity, by choosing Christ you get salvation and by living in Christ, you build up your heavenly rewards. A relatively small physical existence that has some misery and some happiness is a small price to pay for an eternity of bliss. I don't really think you factor that in. You keep harping on these parasites, but the pain those cause is nothing compared to an eternity in Heaven.

You seem to miss the point of Jesus. Jesus was God in the flesh, but he was still a human. When it was his time to die, he was afraid, just as all humans have a fear of death. That's the whole point. You're not supposed to look at Jesus as if he was above humanity in that way, if he was, his life and death would have been pointless. As far as the prophecies of the Bible and what Jesus is supposed to do, they simply haven't happened. The Bible says no one knows when they will happen. This stuff works on God's time, not ours.

And saying Jesus has no interest in helping humanity is something you'd believe as a nonbeliever. Anyone who believes will gladly rattle off dozens of things Jesus and God have done to help them and those around them.

I've always laughed when I hear about "Jesus time" compared to our time. Isn't 2,000 plus years a pretty damn long time? I guess I'm the impatient type, along with most of the world, since most people worldwide are not Christian. But IDK, I freely admit my expectations are high for a savior. People are mad at Trump for how long it's taking for Puerto Rico to recover from those massive hurricanes, but shouldn't people question why it's taking so long for Jesus to do pretty much anything since he died?

And what do you mean things Jesus and "god" have done to help people? Because even if some feel that way, what about the many millions of people who seem to be doing well without being religious at all? Or those who are doing well and believe in multiple gods like Hindus and many Africans and others? Is it fair to say there are many gods out there helping multiple people? Hindus and animists make up a huge part of the world.

 

[kingblaze84]

Who knows, maybe 10,000 years from now, aliens or whoever has control of Earth will think X-Men and Spider-Man were real people.

youre joking but I honestly believe this will happen. superman is basically a retelling of christ anyway

I'm pretty sure something like that will happen lol, I bet the people who made up Zeus and Apollo back in the day were just looking for stories to entertain their family and friends with. And people just ran away with it.

Today we laugh at Zeus, but back in the day, people in the Greek empire were really scared of him.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I've always laughed when I hear about "Jesus time" compared to our time. Isn't 2,000 plus years a pretty damn long time? I guess I'm the impatient type, along with most of the world, since most people worldwide are not Christian. But IDK, I freely admit my expectations are high for a savior. People are mad at Trump for how long it's taking for Puerto Rico to recover from those massive hurricanes, but shouldn't people question why it's taking so long for Jesus to do pretty much anything since he died?

And what do you mean things Jesus and "god" have done to help people? Because even if some feel that way, what about the many millions of people who seem to be doing well without being religious at all? Or those who are doing well and believe in multiple gods like Hindus and many Africans and others? Is it fair to say there are many gods out there helping multiple people? Hindus and animists make up a huge part of the world.

Humans live for ~70-80 years. So yeah, for us, 2000 years is a long time. For a being that's been around for billions of our years, 2000 years is nothing. You say you have high expectations for a god, but you don't really. A lot of the faults you have with God seem to come from you bringing God down to our level. Even in this post, you're comparing Jesus' salvation of humanity to Trump helping Puerto Rico. Your mind is completely on the physical world, and even though I keep pointing out the significance of eternity when you consider Jesus' salvation, it doesn't resonate with you. You think your imagination is what's keeping you from recognizing the greatness of God. Actually, it's your lack of imagination that's the problems because your mind is completely grounded in this physical world.

Your second paragraph only furthers that. Again, you're talking about how well people are doing on Earth. Paul specifically tells you in the Bible that your eyes shouldn't be on the physical world but the one before that. Yes, here may be athiests out there doing it up in this world, but from a Christian standpoint, they will suffer in the next world. Who cares if you were on top of the world for a blink of an eye if you're going to suffer the blow back for eternity?

 

[kingblaze84]

I've always laughed when I hear about "Jesus time" compared to our time. Isn't 2,000 plus years a pretty damn long time? I guess I'm the impatient type, along with most of the world, since most people worldwide are not Christian. But IDK, I freely admit my expectations are high for a savior. People are mad at Trump for how long it's taking for Puerto Rico to recover from those massive hurricanes, but shouldn't people question why it's taking so long for Jesus to do pretty much anything since he died?

And what do you mean things Jesus and "god" have done to help people? Because even if some feel that way, what about the many millions of people who seem to be doing well without being religious at all? Or those who are doing well and believe in multiple gods like Hindus and many Africans and others? Is it fair to say there are many gods out there helping multiple people? Hindus and animists make up a huge part of the world.

Humans live for ~70-80 years. So yeah, for us, 2000 years is a long time. For a being that's been around for billions of our years, 2000 years is nothing. You say you have high expectations for a god, but you don't really. A lot of the faults you have with God seem to come from you bringing God down to our level. Even in this post, you're comparing Jesus' salvation of humanity to Trump helping Puerto Rico. Your mind is completely on the physical world, and even though I keep pointing out the significance of eternity when you consider Jesus' salvation, it doesn't resonate with you. You think your imagination is what's keeping you from recognizing the greatness of God. Actually, it's your lack of imagination that's the problems because your mind is completely grounded in this physical world.

Your second paragraph only furthers that. Again, you're talking about how well people are doing on Earth. Paul specifically tells you in the Bible that your eyes shouldn't be on the physical world but the one before that. Yes, here may be athiests out there doing it up in this world, but from a Christian standpoint, they will suffer in the next world. Who cares if you were on top of the world for a blink of an eye if you're going to suffer the blow back for eternity?

Well that's the thing, there is no serious proof what you said is true. The many atheists and agnostics out there doing well disprove the part of Jesus or the Bible god helping people as you said earlier. If the Muslims are right, then you Christians might be the ones burning in hell. How do I know which god is correct? It seems Muslims worship a more or less different god then Christians and Jews, which god is correct?

Or is maybe Zeus the one true god? I can't take these giant leaps of faith if Jesus never proved himself a powerful god, he never fulfilled the prophecies and yet I'm supposed to take him seriously. I just can't. I can believe there is a life after death but for all we know, Jesus was just a charismatic guy and nothing more. You can't prove that Jesus is more powerful then the Mighty Thor or Shiva. Maybe Shiva ate the Bible god and maybe that's why Jesus can't show himself anymore.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Well that's the thing, there is no serious proof what you said is true. The many atheists and agnostics out there doing well disprove the part of Jesus or the Bible god helping people as you said earlier. If the Muslims are right, then you Christians might be the ones burning in hell. How do I know which god is correct? It seems Muslims worship a more or less different god then Christians and Jews, which god is correct?

Or is maybe Zeus the one true god? I can't take these giant leaps of faith if Jesus never proved himself a powerful god, he never fulfilled the prophecies and yet I'm supposed to take him seriously. I just can't. I can believe there is a life after death but for all we know, Jesus was just a charismatic guy and nothing more. You can't prove that Jesus is more powerful then the Mighty Thor or Shiva. Maybe Shiva ate the Bible god and maybe that's why Jesus can't show himself anymore.

How does athiests doing well disprove anything about Jesus helping people? Even in the Bible there are plenty of people who don't believe in God or against God that are successful and powerful. That doesn't mean God didn't help people in the Bible. He clearly does. And yes, there is no real proof of anything. Again, that's by design. Christians are supposed to act on faith. If you can't do that, that's fine. You can't be a Christian. Also, Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians. There are just differences in opinion on what that God has done and what he wants.

The rest of the discussion is kinda moot. Either you're open to believe or you aren't. If you see no reason to believe, I can't make you do so or even give you an argument to do so. However, if you are open, you need to read the Bible and pray, and the answers you seek will come.

 

[kingblaze84]

Well that's the thing, there is no serious proof what you said is true. The many atheists and agnostics out there doing well disprove the part of Jesus or the Bible god helping people as you said earlier. If the Muslims are right, then you Christians might be the ones burning in hell. How do I know which god is correct? It seems Muslims worship a more or less different god then Christians and Jews, which god is correct?

Or is maybe Zeus the one true god? I can't take these giant leaps of faith if Jesus never proved himself a powerful god, he never fulfilled the prophecies and yet I'm supposed to take him seriously. I just can't. I can believe there is a life after death but for all we know, Jesus was just a charismatic guy and nothing more. You can't prove that Jesus is more powerful then the Mighty Thor or Shiva. Maybe Shiva ate the Bible god and maybe that's why Jesus can't show himself anymore.

How does athiests doing well disprove anything about Jesus helping people? Even in the Bible there are plenty of people who don't believe in God or against God that are successful and powerful. That doesn't mean God didn't help people in the Bible. He clearly does. And yes, there is no real proof of anything. Again, that's by design. Christians are supposed to act on faith. If you can't do that, that's fine. You can't be a Christian. Also, Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians. There are just differences in opinion on what that God has done and what he wants.

The rest of the discussion is kinda moot. Either you're open to believe or you aren't. If you see no reason to believe, I can't make you do so or even give you an argument to do so. However, if you are open, you need to read the Bible and pray, and the answers you seek will come.

If Jesus is helping people on Earth now as you say, then why are so many Christians I know now in so much misery? I know some atheists on top of the world, and agnostics doing great, Steve Jobs was agnostic or atheist and lived well overall as a billionaire. Meanwhile, I know Christians with disabled kids and huge medical bills taking care of them. I remember being a Christian and at times wondering where the hell my luck is. When I stopped fucking with Christianity, I noticed my life took a dramatic turn for the positive. Ironic, no? I just do not see Jesus active in any capacity, if he is, then he should be helping the tons of Christians in horrible situations in Brazil, Venezuela, and Puerto Rico LOL......I dislike laziness and the Bible god seems lazy to the extreme.

I used to be VERRRRYYYY open to the Bible and Christianity. My life was not fun back in those days. When I turned 16, I stopped being Christian and for SOME REASON, my life just started getting in order. Maybe another god showed its blessings on me? Or maybe no god did and it was just luck? Who knows. When I see Jesus not doing shit in Puerto Rico or Venezuela, among other places that need help (almost every woman in Venezuela is relying on prostitution to make a living now lol smh), then it makes me think Jesus is either lazy as fuck, unable to help, or maybe just dead like every other past person. How can anyone worship a being that has never proved itself a god?

May all go well on your journey, because I went on that same journey in the past, and nothing made sense to me during those days.

 

[kingblaze84]

I always thought the Hindu god Kali was cool though. She's bad ass and would probably be one of the few gods I would want to meet lol

 

[The Lonious Monk]

If Jesus is helping people on Earth now as you say, then why are so many Christians I know now in so much misery? I know some atheists on top of the world, and agnostics doing great, Steve Jobs was agnostic or atheist and lived well overall as a billionaire. Meanwhile, I know Christians with disabled kids and huge medical bills taking care of them. I remember being a Christian and at times wondering where the hell my luck is. When I stopped fucking with Christianity, I noticed my life took a dramatic turn for the positive. Ironic, no? I just do not see Jesus active in any capacity, if he is, then he should be helping the tons of Christians in horrible situations in Brazil, Venezuela, and Puerto Rico LOL......I dislike laziness and the Bible god seems lazy to the extreme.

I used to be VERRRRYYYY open to the Bible and Christianity. My life was not fun back in those days. When I turned 16, I stopped being Christian and for SOME REASON, my life just started getting in order. Maybe another god showed its blessings on me? Or maybe no god did and it was just luck? Who knows. When I see Jesus not doing shit in Puerto Rico or Venezuela, among other places that need help (almost every woman in Venezuela is relying on prostitution to make a living now lol smh), then it makes me think Jesus is either lazy as fuck, unable to help, or maybe just dead like every other past person. How can anyone worship a being that has never proved itself a god?

May all go well on your journey, because I went on that same journey in the past, and nothing made sense to me during those days.

lol Dog, I don't know how else to put this. Jesus didn't come to take care of your daily life. He didn't come to guarantee that you'll live lovely in this life. Most of his disciples died horrible deaths. Ultimately, Jesus' salvation is about eternity not Earth. Now that said, I don't know anyone that actually believes in Jesus that won't tell you he's helped them. My life is better when I restored my faith than beforehand. I'm not a millionaire and life still has low points, but I wouldn't go back for anything. Again, you keep sticking out that "People who believe are doing bad and people who don't are doing good." Well that's a misrepresentation. People in both camps are doing bad and good. And as I pointed out before, if you read the Bible, even when God was basically hands on with people and they knew it, there were still those who believed that didn't do well and people didn't believe that did well. So this idea that God/Jesus helping = everyone that believes does great is false.

Also, you say you see Jesus not doing shit in Puerto Rico. How do you know? What are you expecting? To see him rise up from the floods on TV, wave his hands, and fix everyone's troubles. That's not how it works. That was never how it works. But how do you know that every day, he hasn't helps people in some small way that meant the difference between life or death?

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Jesus helps you if you help yourself. Same with god. The reason most xtians are miserable is because they are living lies. They aren't behaving like jesus. They're not practicing awareness of thoughts, words and actions, they are living all willy nilly babbling with their mouths how much they love jesus(honor me with your lips, we know what happens to them). Living like jesus, being like jesus is in stark contrast to how society rolls and has always been that way.

People back then weren't as aware as jesus. Awareness of thoughts, actions and words? wtf is that? Nobody then or now wants a bunch of jesus personalities walking around. They don't have many friends because they practice always speaking the truth(can't walk the path of light if you're filling yourself/others with falsehood). They are not accepted because they don't keep up with societies standards of "living" and "success". So you can see why the book talks about people falling away because they literally come out of the world, and it's barren, so back to society they go to find a place they fit. Which the book says, nah you gotta do it alone... well, god and jesus and holy ghost are on your side, but that's not enough for people.

 

[Ajackson17]

Exodus is mythology and a huge exaggeration. The exodus is not a literal migration, but from Canaanites leaving other Canaanites under the power of the Egyptians when they ruled Canaan and became their own separate people. But myth serves to teach a cultures morals, ethics, and way of life. So yeah, it's not a historical action, but exodus did happened culturally.

 

[kingblaze84]

If Jesus is helping people on Earth now as you say, then why are so many Christians I know now in so much misery? I know some atheists on top of the world, and agnostics doing great, Steve Jobs was agnostic or atheist and lived well overall as a billionaire. Meanwhile, I know Christians with disabled kids and huge medical bills taking care of them. I remember being a Christian and at times wondering where the hell my luck is. When I stopped fucking with Christianity, I noticed my life took a dramatic turn for the positive. Ironic, no? I just do not see Jesus active in any capacity, if he is, then he should be helping the tons of Christians in horrible situations in Brazil, Venezuela, and Puerto Rico LOL......I dislike laziness and the Bible god seems lazy to the extreme.

I used to be VERRRRYYYY open to the Bible and Christianity. My life was not fun back in those days. When I turned 16, I stopped being Christian and for SOME REASON, my life just started getting in order. Maybe another god showed its blessings on me? Or maybe no god did and it was just luck? Who knows. When I see Jesus not doing shit in Puerto Rico or Venezuela, among other places that need help (almost every woman in Venezuela is relying on prostitution to make a living now lol smh), then it makes me think Jesus is either lazy as fuck, unable to help, or maybe just dead like every other past person. How can anyone worship a being that has never proved itself a god?

May all go well on your journey, because I went on that same journey in the past, and nothing made sense to me during those days.

lol Dog, I don't know how else to put this. Jesus didn't come to take care of your daily life. He didn't come to guarantee that you'll live lovely in this life. Most of his disciples died horrible deaths. Ultimately, Jesus' salvation is about eternity not Earth. Now that said, I don't know anyone that actually believes in Jesus that won't tell you he's helped them. My life is better when I restored my faith than beforehand. I'm not a millionaire and life still has low points, but I wouldn't go back for anything. Again, you keep sticking out that "People who believe are doing bad and people who don't are doing good." Well that's a misrepresentation. People in both camps are doing bad and good. And as I pointed out before, if you read the Bible, even when God was basically hands on with people and they knew it, there were still those who believed that didn't do well and people didn't believe that did well. So this idea that God/Jesus helping = everyone that believes does great is false.

Also, you say you see Jesus not doing shit in Puerto Rico. How do you know? What are you expecting? To see him rise up from the floods on TV, wave his hands, and fix everyone's troubles. That's not how it works. That was never how it works. But how do you know that every day, he hasn't helps people in some small way that meant the difference between life or death?

Well what the Jews said in Jesus' time always stuck a point in me, which is, that Jesus never was able to fulfill the prophecies. Which is why they mocked him and ironically 2,000 years later he still is unable to fulfill his own prophecies of world harmony, which is what the real messiah was supposed to do. Remember, Jesus said he believed in the prophecies, and would fulfill them. The fact that he didn't fulfill about 90% of the old Jewish prophecies is quite telling.

You've mentioned several times that Jesus can bring salvation or heaven in the afterlife, but Jesus is not the only person or "god" that promised that. There are many gods historically that have promised eternal life after death, if one believes in them. So in the end, I just don't find Jesus that unique for a prophet, and I don't think people who get their ass kicked by human beings are gods lol. Jesus seemed quite helpless against those Romans, Odin, Thor, and Kali would have shed blood before being crucified like a common criminal. This doesn't seem godlike to me, but I do admit I'm hard to impress! I've never lost a fight before, so I expect a god to not be crucified like a regular thief. Some say Jesus came back to life but some say Nero came back to life too. Nero claimed he was a god too, ironically.