Stephen Hawking: God was not needed to create the Universe

[KTULU IS BACK]

Did he just say it this way to please religious people? Did people misquote him or mess around with what he actually said? What?

i dont know the sources of any of those quotes off-hand or if he even said them, but he was dealing with heavy cosmological questions and he believed (wrongly) that quantum randomness didnt exist and that the universe had a definite order to it

so "god" is a shortcut for saying all that

einstein also said this:

“It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems.”

Albert Einstein, 1947; from Banesh Hoffmann, Albert Einstein Creator and Rebel, New York: New American Library, 1972, p. 95.

and he also said this:

“I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.”

Albert Einstein, replying to a letter in 1954 or 1955; from Albert Einstein the Human Side, Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, eds., Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1981, p. 39.

and also this:

“I cannot accept any concept of God based on the fear of life or the fear of death or blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him I would be a liar.”

Albert Einstein; from Ronald W. Clark, Einstein: The Life and Times, New York: World Publishing Company, 1971, p. 622.

ultimately, einstein wanted people to call him an agnostic

he didnt believe in god, but he didnt really want to argue about it.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

ultimately, einstein wanted people to call him an agnostic

he didnt believe in god, but he didnt really want to argue about it.

Oh well damn, you have sources and everything, guess my quotes lose.

 

[Hyde Parke]

ultimately, einstein wanted people to call him an agnostic

he didnt believe in god, but he didnt really want to argue about it.

Agnosticism is not the the disbelief in God.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

Agnosticism is not the the disbelief in God.

i know that

but einstein said "please call me agnostic"

he didnt want the trouble of these kinds of debates, he just wanted to do his work

 

[Hyde Parke]

he didnt want the trouble of these kinds of debates, he just wanted to do his work

that makes no sense, but ok.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

that makes no sense, but ok.

well, wadda ya want from me?

i posted einsteins own words.

 

[Hyde Parke]

well, wadda ya want from me?

i posted einsteins own words.

i would think someone who's worked with the atom bomb, has his own theory of relativity,chemist, Nobel prize winner, etc, wouldnt give a damn if people knew he was an atheist or not. **shrugs**, just seems minor.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

there was a lot more stigma to that word back in the day

"godless communist" was the worst thing you could be

 

[ThaChozenWun]

i would think someone who's worked with the atom bomb, has his own theory of relativity,chemist, Nobel prize winner, etc, wouldnt give a damn if people knew he was an atheist or not. **shrugs**, just seems minor.

Well you got to look at it from the point that atheist or agnostics also have some companies who wants grant them money or products because of their belief.

It might be a case of well if someone who doesn't want to believe in god ask for it the answers no because he's up to evil, where as if the man was a firm believer in god it's no doubt he was only up to good in his request for money and or products.

Outside of that I can't really think of why he would hide it, it wasn't like he was a scientist during the dark ages where not having belief was a ticket to being burned alive.

 

[And Step]

no he didn't

hawking confused a lot of religious people by talking about Einstein's saying that "god does not play dice"

and Einstein confused religious people by saying that, too

but neither hawking nor einstein believe in god at all

deal with it

Actually, this is not true.

Einstein did believe in a God. He just said he did not believe in a personal God. He said he believed in the same God as Spinoza.
Meaning he saw the impress of God on everything. He just wanted to know why God created things, not the how.

Why is the most important question a scientist could ask because it gets to the root of everything. And if you can get to the root of something you become it's master.

Sure that tongue in cheek comment about God playing dice can be rightly seen as sarcastic humor. However he also made the following statements :

"I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."

and

""Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Can't explain that away. Well maybe the second one but, I doubt it.

Einstein was smarter than Hawking, and cooler.

 

[Hyde Parke]

Well you got to look at it from the point that atheist or agnostics also have some companies who wants grant them money or products because of their belief.

It might be a case of well if someone who doesn't want to believe in god ask for it the answers no because he's up to evil, where as if the man was a firm believer in god it's no doubt he was only up to good in his request for money and or products.

Outside of that I can't really think of why he would hide it, it wasn't like he was a scientist during the dark ages where not having belief was a ticket to being burned alive.

yea, i suppose. we could theorize all day, just going by his words though, doesnt seem like he didnt believe in god.

 

[Hyde Parke]

yeah, show me where he says there is no god.

 

[ThaChozenWun]

yea, i suppose. we could theorize all day, just going by his words though, doesnt seem like he didnt believe in god.

That's how I feel to. And Step summed it up pretty much. There is a big difference between believing in a great creator and believing in a religious version of god.

 

[Hyde Parke]

That's how I feel to. And Step summed it up pretty much. There is a big difference between believing in a great creator and believing in a religious version of god.

^^^ i can agree with that.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

He said he believed in the same God as Spinoza.

which means he didn't believe in God, capital G

he believed in an ordered universe and was eventually shown to be WRONG about that

and like i already explained, being totally open about your opinion on god in the 1940's was not as easy as it is today

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

also, why am i the only one posting the SOURCES for my quotes?

its because im the most correct, as usual

 

[Hyde Parke]

also, why am i the only one posting the SOURCES for my quotes?

its because im the most correct, as usual

you havent quoted him saying he does not believe in god, you seem to just be adding your own theories to his words..

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

you havent quoted him saying he does not believe in god, you seem to just be adding your own theories to his words..

i know more about theology than anybody on this site

adn when somebody from before the end of the cold war says "spinozas god" they mean they dont believe in god

 

[Hyde Parke]

i know more about theology than anybody on this site

adn when somebody from before the end of the cold war says "spinozas god" they mean they dont believe in god

lol, ok buddy.tell yourself whatever to support your own self driven ego.

 

[KTULU IS BACK]

lol, ok buddy.tell yourself whatever to support your own self driven ego.

tell me it was perfectly safe to admit to being an atheist in Einstein's day, when you're working with the government as much as Einstein was.

be real, son.

einstein repeatedly said "religion is the dumbest thing, i am not religious, and my definition of god is so non-mystical that i really shouldn't even have to call it that."