So who made the deal with the Devil?

[Bodhi]

I'm not angry with god. It's difficult to be angry with something you don't believe in. I'm only speaking hypothetically for a argument's sake.

Deep down you know that God exists my brother, every one does. That is why your "hypothetically" speaking about Him. Amen.

No, I don't believe in God. This is why I'm speaking to you hypothetically for the purpose of argumentation. It's like, he doesn't exist but let's suppose he does for the sake of argument.

 

[Bodhi]

the whole concept of free will is that humans have the choice to make good/bad decisions. The Most High just will manipulate things based on the decisions men make to fall in line with his plan. So, the lives of men are effected directly by the choices that we make, but based upon scripture and the overall objective of the Most High, things work according to his will. So in a sense, he works almost like the men in that Movie "The Adjusters". But people so in fact make their own decisions. He only attempts to influence people down the correct path. If they choose not to obey, that's their perogative.

Right. This cannot be reconciled with the idea that God created them knowing their decisions prior to their creation. If that were true, what he created was his will exclusively. Any so-called "will" of his creation is an illusory conception of the creation themselves.

No....

Okay well either you're just saying this or you really believe that; either way, this is where we disagree.

The people killed in the bomb were in the vicinity for a reason. But those people were not murdered because of the Most High's unwillingness to intervene. And who is to say certain people who may frequent the area where the bomb exploded were not prevented from being there because of "events" that occured that prevented them?

"The most high's" intervention has nothing to with this analogy. The bomb goes off. Some people are there and some aren't there.. of course. We don't need to go into detail about why or for what reason they were or weren't in the area at the time. If your roommate is building a bomb to detonate it in a crowd of innocent people and you do nothing to prevent that catastrophe, IMO you are also involved. You don't have to agree with that.

As the JUDGE of the actions of free willed beings, in this case, the Most High is not liable for the man's actions, but he will manipulate certain events to fulfill his WILL. Hope that makes sense.

Not only is he the judge, he is the creator of those beings. He manipulated their every thought when he created them. So they are ultimately not free willed.

 

[Bodhi]

Its a few reasons why he allows evil. I can't get too deep in the game with all the reason but if u really think about it, doesn't it make for a better example of how powerful a being is when its one that allow us freedom to make our own choices but still able to get their way in the end?

IMO, it makes for a better example of how powerful an omnibenevolent being would be if that being were to allow us freedom to make our own choices while still being able to eliminate evil from our lives.

I mean, directly step in. Hr doesn't have to DIRECTLY step in all thr time...He's already watching over us now, you still alive and well aren't you? But I know its the simple things like that we tend to take for granted. Thank God for all the bad things that HAVEN'T happened, like not having an accident while driving and having food on the table... Dont just be thankful for the things he directly stepped in the picture to effect.

I'm alive and well but there are other people who aren't. There are other people in terrible conditions and situations, every single day. There are people who are more well-off than me who live fulfilling lives. This is the way we would expect the world to work if there were no omnibenevolent god. There is good and there is bad.

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

I'm not angry with god. It's difficult to be angry with something you don't believe in. I'm only speaking hypothetically for a argument's sake.

Deep down you know that God exists my brother, every one does. That is why your "hypothetically" speaking about Him. Amen.

No, I don't believe in God. This is why I'm speaking to you hypothetically for the purpose of argumentation. It's like, he doesn't exist but let's suppose he does for the sake of argument.

I don't buy that excuse for 1 second Oceanic. God says that every single soul, who is of the age of accountability, knows intrinsically and extrinsically that there is a God. To say otherwise is a bold face lie, to which God calls all who do fools.

1. Intrinsic evidence for the existence of God= "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." Ecclesiastes 3:11

2. Extrinsic evidence for the existence of God = "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalm 19:1 (read also Romans 1)

3. What God calls all those who deny the truth = "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!" Psalm 14:1

Somebody is lying here Oceanic. God or you?

"yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Romans 3:4

Will you get out of the river de(NILE)? God wants to take you out of Egypt and lead you to the Promised land! He wants to feed you with milk and honey. He wants to give your soul rest. He wants you to be at peace with Him. He wants to give you Eternal life! Why would any rational and sane being reject so great an offer as that?

He loves you my friend. Will you come to Him today?

 

[Ajackson17]

lmao

 

[Bodhi]

He loves you my friend. Will you come to Him today?

 

[Arya Tsaddiq]

@Oceanic

I am at work and I don't have the time to respond to everything that you said. Based on what I've read however, its seems as if your Absolute view of the world and the events that take place within it will never fall in line with the beliefs of thoe who worship the God of Abraham.

Free will is free will. That means you have the ability to make your own choices. Now, while you may be influenced by an external source to an extent, your actions are exclusively yours. Now, with the Most High is both omniscient and omnipresent. So with a combination of both of these attributes, who is to say people cannot be used to fulfill his will while still holding on to thier free will? The Most High, being the creator of humans, understands human psychology and also knows each human being interpersonally. This means he has the ability to create certain environmental factors or influences to shift a persons free will to fall in linw tih his will. This is why I brought up the movie "The Adjusters". And based upon how a person lives, those influences can be "good" or "bad". But this doesn't mean that he is directly controlling the thoughts of that individual.

You also say that because The Most High is Omnipresent, he is not omnipotent because he did not stop evil when he inevitably knew it would come to fruition. But again, the free will of humans allows them to choose thier desitiny. And based on how you live, it determines what role you will play in The Most High's "movie" of Life. If that doesn't make sense I don't know what to say. Maybe i'm the wrong guy to explain this to you then.....

 

[Ajackson17]

The man of sin is alive right now, typing this to ya'll. It's coming soon...

 

[Arya Tsaddiq]

The man of sin is alive right now, typing this to ya'll. It's coming soon...

So do you believe the Bible or not?

Cuz you're all over the place cuz....

 

[Bodhi]

I have not mentioned omnipresence.

 

[Bodhi]

Maybe you are misunderstanding my posts because you are misreading them. Read to understand, not to reply.

 

[beenwize]

I'm not angry with god. It's difficult to be angry with something you don't believe in. I'm only speaking hypothetically for a argument's sake.

Deep down you know that God exists my brother, every one does. That is why your "hypothetically" speaking about Him. Amen.

No, I don't believe in God. This is why I'm speaking to you hypothetically for the purpose of argumentation. It's like, he doesn't exist but let's suppose he does for the sake of argument.

I don't buy that excuse for 1 second Oceanic. God says that every single soul, who is of the age of accountability, knows intrinsically and extrinsically that there is a God. To say otherwise is a bold face lie, to which God calls all who do fools.

1. Intrinsic evidence for the existence of God= "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." Ecclesiastes 3:11

2. Extrinsic evidence for the existence of God = "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalm 19:1 (read also Romans 1)

3. What God calls all those who deny the truth = "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!" Psalm 14:1

Somebody is lying here Oceanic. God or you?

"yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Romans 3:4

Will you get out of the river de(NILE)? God wants to take you out of Egypt and lead you to the Promised land! He wants to feed you with milk and honey. He wants to give your soul rest. He wants you to be at peace with Him. He wants to give you Eternal life! Why would any rational and sane being reject so great an offer as that?

He loves you my friend. Will you come to Him today?

Ppl can believe in a Creator and it doest have tobe the same god as you. The quran also says you are damned foe no belief in Allah.

 

[Arya Tsaddiq]

Maybe you are misunderstanding my posts because you are misreading them. Read to understand, not to reply.

I was at work. My bad man. U mentioned omniscience, not omnipresence. But that last paragraph still could apply.

 

[Black Boy King]

The man of sin is alive right now, typing this to ya'll. It's coming soon...

so now you believe in the Anti Christ but don't believe in Christ... ironically that makes sense.

but you better than that yo..

 

[Bodhi]

But that last paragraph still could apply.

No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

Picture this:

An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

 

[zombie]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

 

[Bodhi]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

 

[zombie]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

 

[DoUwant2go2Heaven]

I'm not angry with god. It's difficult to be angry with something you don't believe in. I'm only speaking hypothetically for a argument's sake.

Deep down you know that God exists my brother, every one does. That is why your "hypothetically" speaking about Him. Amen.

No, I don't believe in God. This is why I'm speaking to you hypothetically for the purpose of argumentation. It's like, he doesn't exist but let's suppose he does for the sake of argument.

I don't buy that excuse for 1 second Oceanic. God says that every single soul, who is of the age of accountability, knows intrinsically and extrinsically that there is a God. To say otherwise is a bold face lie, to which God calls all who do fools.

1. Intrinsic evidence for the existence of God= "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." Ecclesiastes 3:11

2. Extrinsic evidence for the existence of God = "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalm 19:1 (read also Romans 1)

3. What God calls all those who deny the truth = "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!" Psalm 14:1

Somebody is lying here Oceanic. God or you?

"yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Romans 3:4

Will you get out of the river de(NILE)? God wants to take you out of Egypt and lead you to the Promised land! He wants to feed you with milk and honey. He wants to give your soul rest. He wants you to be at peace with Him. He wants to give you Eternal life! Why would any rational and sane being reject so great an offer as that?

He loves you my friend. Will you come to Him today?

Ppl can believe in a Creator and it doest have tobe the same god as you. The quran also says you are damned foe no belief in Allah.

Correct. People can believe in anything they want too. Sin and spiritual wickedness in high places has deceived all of humanity into believing a multitidue of lies. But at the end of the day, when all is said and done, God will prove that there was only 1 truth and 1 way to be reconciled back to Him. Amen.

 

[Bodhi]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

Ok well let me know when you've watched it.