So who made the deal with the Devil?

[Ajackson17]

The man of sin is alive right now, typing this to ya'll. It's coming soon...

So do you believe the Bible or not?

Cuz you're all over the place cuz....

Who knows?

 

[Rock_Well]

@Oceanic if it is how u say, that God knows the whole story already, how do u explain the record of when God saying 'now i know' in Genesis, in response to Abraham decision in faith to offer his son as a sacrifice.

Or how do you explain God in the Bible expressing regret for having made man on earth?

 

[Bodhi]

@Oceanic if it is how u say, that God knows the whole story already, how do u explain the record of when God saying 'now i know' in Genesis, in response to Abraham decision in faith to offer his son as a sacrifice.

Or how do you explain God in the Bible expressing regret for having made man on earth?

That would be a question you would have to ask yourself. That's why I don't believe in what the Bible says. I never said that god was omniscient or omnipotent or that and this; I'm only telling y'all what classical theism says about god and then why it doesn't make sense. If you want to say god doesn't know everything already, that's fine with me. Actually, it would solve a lot of problems for you. You would just have to stop saying that god is omniscient.

 

[Arya Tsaddiq]

But that last paragraph still could apply.

No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

Picture this:

An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

I get what you're saying bro...

But at the end of the day, regardless of how we were created. WE have free will. YOU choose what you will or will not do. I don't care how you look at it. The fact that the Most High my have given us personalities susceptible to certain environmental influences to shift our decisions to fall in line with his based on our behavior doesnt mean we dont make our own decisions.

You really do practice Daoism. Your thought process makes sense based on their ideology tho.

 

[zombie]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

 

[Bodhi]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

 

[zombie]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

i have seen some episodes but not that one.

 

[Bodhi]

But that last paragraph still could apply.

No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

Picture this:

An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

I get what you're saying bro...

But.. ..I don't care how you look at it.

Well then we're wasting our time.

 

[Arya Tsaddiq]

But that last paragraph still could apply.

No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

Picture this:

An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

I get what you're saying bro...

But.. ..I don't care how you look at it.

Well then we're wasting our time.

not necessarily. That is a figure of speech. Not me saying I don't respect your opinion. Im just trying to understand how you can believe that everything that happens Is in alignment with "nature" and nothing else, but oppose the idea of a intelligent designer.

 

[Black Boy King]

Ezekiel 25:17

and I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them

I think the Son is coming very soon... Repent, repent, repent. Don't be an arrogant human, because nature proves everyday that we are weak and feeble. And the Bible is strikingly accurate with it's prophesies. It was written...

 

[Rock_Well]

@Oceanic if it is how u say, that God knows the whole story already, how do u explain the record of when God saying 'now i know' in Genesis, in response to Abraham decision in faith to offer his son as a sacrifice.

Or how do you explain God in the Bible expressing regret for having made man on earth?

That would be a question you would have to ask yourself. That's why I don't believe in what the Bible says. I never said that god was omniscient or omnipotent or that and this; I'm only telling y'all what classical theism says about god and then why it doesn't make sense. If you want to say god doesn't know everything already, that's fine with me. Actually, it would solve a lot of problems for you. You would just have to stop saying that god is omniscient.

As a rule I try not to concern myself too much as to what 'Classical Theism' says about God's nature when it's not necessarily supported by what the Bible says.

The Bible does teach that God is all-knowing, but it's a mistake to assume that means also knowing things that just can't be known - what you say Classical Theism says about God's nature.

 

[Bodhi]

As a rule I try not to concern myself too much as to what 'Classical Theism' says about God's nature when it's not necessarily supported by what the Bible says.

The Abrahamic religions are under the classical theism umbrella. Classical theism supports the omni x3 theory and is differentiated from other forms of theism like panentheism.

The Bible does teach that God is all-knowing, but it's a mistake to assume that means also knowing things that just can't be known - what you say Classical Theism says about God's nature.

If God is truly all-knowing, he knows all. If there is something God doesn't know, he is not all-knowing. This includes the future because the future is something. If God cannot know the future, there is a limit placed on God's knowledge and thus he is not omniscient.

 

[Bodhi]

not necessarily. That is a figure of speech. Not me saying I don't respect your opinion. Im just trying to understand how you can believe that everything that happens Is in alignment with "nature" and nothing else, but oppose the idea of a intelligent designer.

Because there has to be at least several laws of nature that govern God's existence, much less his intelligence and his ability to create anything at all. Nothing can be arranged that orderly unless there is a principle behind it. That principle behind all things is nature. Humans have personified it as "mother nature" and "father God" but nature is not an intelligent being per se. It creates intelligent entities.

 

[Bodhi]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

i have seen some episodes but not that one.

It's on YouTube. Search "through the wormhole free will"

 

[zombie]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

i have seen some episodes but not that one.

It's on YouTube. Search "through the wormhole free will"

you have to pay for the video.

 

[Bodhi]

god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

i have seen some episodes but not that one.

It's on YouTube. Search "through the wormhole free will"

you have to pay for the video.

Really? Damn..

 

[zombie]

not necessarily. That is a figure of speech. Not me saying I don't respect your opinion. Im just trying to understand how you can believe that everything that happens Is in alignment with "nature" and nothing else, but oppose the idea of a intelligent designer.

Because there has to be at least several laws of nature that govern God's existence, much less his intelligence and his ability to create anything at all. Nothing can be arranged that orderly unless there is a principle behind it. That principle behind all things is nature. Humans have personified it as "mother nature" and "father God" but nature is not an intelligent being per se. It creates intelligent entities.

The only thing that governs gods existence is his will and the principle behind nature is gods will.

 

[zombie]

As a rule I try not to concern myself too much as to what 'Classical Theism' says about God's nature when it's not necessarily supported by what the Bible says.

The Abrahamic religions are under the classical theism umbrella. Classical theism supports the omni x3 theory and is differentiated from other forms of theism like panentheism.

The Bible does teach that God is all-knowing, but it's a mistake to assume that means also knowing things that just can't be known - what you say Classical Theism says about God's nature.

If God is truly all-knowing, he knows all. If there is something God doesn't know, he is not all-knowing. This includes the future because the future is something. If God cannot know the future, there is a limit placed on God's knowledge and thus he is not omniscient.

God knows the future for what it is possibility, the future is not "something" it has no substance and is created by the present. god being omni intelligent and omipotent can cause the future he wishes to create to come into being. there is no limit on gods knowledge and knows all futures but being that he is also all good he does not force the future he wants on people.

 

[Bodhi]

Those weren't directed at you. I've already talked about this with you before and you weren't able to grasp what was being said as the convo went deeper. I'd like to hear someone else please. If you'd like, I'll answer you when you reply to those old arguments.

 

[Bodhi]

..besides.. stuff like this..

not necessarily. That is a figure of speech. Not me saying I don't respect your opinion. Im just trying to understand how you can believe that everything that happens Is in alignment with "nature" and nothing else, but oppose the idea of a intelligent designer.

Because there has to be at least several laws of nature that govern God's existence, much less his intelligence and his ability to create anything at all. Nothing can be arranged that orderly unless there is a principle behind it. That principle behind all things is nature. Humans have personified it as "mother nature" and "father God" but nature is not an intelligent being per se. It creates intelligent entities.

The only thing that governs gods existence is his will and the principle behind nature is gods will.

..makes 0 sense.