So who made the deal with the Devil?

[Rock_Well]

known by who?

Anyone who has the ability to view it.


..An omniscient or all knowing God for example.

That God can know the future doesn't mean the future is 'viewable'. You assume thats how God does it, but the Bible doesn't say that. And also, that you used God as an example and not any human means u agree that as far as any human is concerned, the future can't be known outside of knowledge given by God. so therefore u can't use this assertion to refute my stance.

Not able to watch thr vid right now

And so u agree there's some things of the future that are impossible to know before it happens and also that the future technically doesn't exist yet.

I never said this. I don't know where you're getting this from. I've been saying the future IS real. It does exist.

and an understanding beyond the omiscient definition can be had about Gods all powerful nature, but if you insist on sticking with that as your standard then you will never get it.

Yeah I try to stick by the language that we speak to get a better understanding of what we're talking about. That seems to be what language is for, you know.

Ok so my bad, so u say the future does exist. Now where's your proof?

 

[Bodhi]

That God can know the future doesn't mean the future is 'viewable'.

The future is as real as the present and it being viewable means that it is able to be known. An all knowing God would be able to know the future.

And also, that you used God as an example and not any human means u agree that as far as any human is concerned, the future can't be known outside of knowledge given by God. so therefore u can't use this assertion to refute my stance.

To my understanding, we're discussing God's ability; not the ability or understanding of man.

Ok so my bad, so u say the future does exist. Now where's your proof?

In the vid. Holla at me after you watch it. If you can't, I can explain it to you in laymen' s terms. I think it might be better to watch the vid though cuz it seems like you aren't comprehending what I'm saying too well so let's try a different approach.

 

[zombie]

There is no space-time without matter. time is made/ brought about by differing configurations of matter einstin was wrong and the wave function collapse of quantum particles proves it.

that is why physics is locked in a battle between special relativity and quantum theory and a proper unified theory has not been created. THAT VIDEO IS bullshit and does not put our current understanding of the universe into perspective.

 

[zombie]

determinism has not been proved and the future is open

 

[alissowack]

This is a very odd vid @oceanic. Someone's "now" can be directed towards someone else's "past" or "future"...seems a little too out there. That means someone's now can be where life begins and where it ends. There is no way for that person to know that...but if it was possible, would they want to? But, I guess you are doing that so to say that in order for God to get credit for one of the 3 omni's, He must be able to have this ability. It's one thing to have the ability, and another to have the choice to display this ability. For example...believe it or not, I have the ability to play the guitar. But, because I have the ability doesn't mean I am subjected to this ability. I can choose to play guitar or not play guitar. I don't feel like I need to prove that I can or have the uncontrollable urge to grab an axe and shred. Whether or not I can play well is another story.

God does whatever He wants. If God says He is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent...then He is regardless of what doubts anybody has about it.

 

[Bodhi]

This is a very odd vid @oceanic. Someone's "now" can be directed towards someone else's "past" or "future"...seems a little too out there. That means someone's now can be where life begins and where it ends. There is no way for that person to know that...but if it was possible, would they want to? But, I guess you are doing that so to say that in order for God to get credit for one of the 3 omni's, He must be able to have this ability. It's one thing to have the ability, and another to have the choice to display this ability. For example...believe it or not, I have the ability to play the guitar. But, because I have the ability doesn't mean I am subjected to this ability. I can choose to play guitar or not play guitar. I don't feel like I need to prove that I can or have the uncontrollable urge to grab an axe and shred. Whether or not I can play well is another story.

God does whatever He wants. If God says He is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent...then He is regardless of what doubts anybody has about it.

I'm not arguing with you because you always take it too left field where I don't know where the fuck you're trying to go with it. Thanks for the comment though.

 

[Bodhi]

Didn't read btw

 

[Rock_Well]

Mash them reaction buttons a lil harder @Oceanic maybe we'll see some proof of the future's existence pop out. In b4 u post pics of the artist 'future' as 'proof'.

I'll watch the vid later today wen I get free time

 

[Bodhi]

Mash them reaction buttons a lil harder @Oceanic

Hey, that's what they're there for.

 

[Rock_Well]

The video was pretty interesting. However, it's also pretty much just Science Fiction.

 

[Bodhi]

Oh yeah? You care to explain how you came to that conclusion or nah?

Because it's even backed up by the scientific community:

We have a deep intuition that the future is open until it becomes

present and that the past is fixed. As time flows, this structure

of fixed past, immediate present and open future gets carried

forward in time. This structure is built into our language,

thought and behavior. How we live our lives hangs on it.

Yet as natural as this way of thinking is, you will not find it

reflected in science. The equations of physics do not tell us which

events are occurring right now—they are like a map without the

“you are here” symbol. The present moment does not exist in

them, and therefore neither does the flow of time. Additionally,

Albert Einstein’s theories of relativity suggest not only that there

is no single special present but also that all moments are equally

real [see “That Mysterious Flow,” by Paul Davies; Scientific

American, September 2002]. Fundamentally, the future is no

more open than the past.

The gap between the scientific understanding of time and our

everyday understanding of time has troubled thinkers throughout

history. It has widened as physicists have gradually stripped time

of most of the attributes we commonly ascribe to it. Now the rift

between the time of physics and the time of experience is reaching

its logical conclusion, for many in theoretical physics have

come to believe that time fundamentally does not even exist.
http://elibrary.bsu.az/jurnallar/Scientific American_201006.pdf

 

[zombie]

niggas and there constant misuse of science.

Quantum physics theorizes a layer of randomness at the quantum scale. If we are to believe that free will doesn’t exist because every single piece of matter in the universe is simply playing out an unchangeable, prearranged story, we would have to disbelieve quantum physics in it’s entirety. the future is open and a fully deterministic universe has not been proven

 

[Bodhi]

@zombie I commend you for your effort albeit I can easily tell you really have no deep understanding and probably commit to no further research than quick google searches.

Determinism and quantum physics are not impossible to reconcile. In fact, I watched a documentary recently about the cohesion of the two. Would you like a link or would you care for me to explain it to you?

 

[zombie]

@zombie I commend you for your effort albeit I can easily tell you really have no deep understanding and probably commit to no further research than quick google searches.

Determinism and quantum physics are not impossible to reconcile. In fact, I watched a documentary recently about the cohesion of the two. Would you like a link or would you care for me to explain it to you?

Do you have a degree in advanced physics? if not then kindly fuck out of here with your condescension you are no more fit to speak on this issue than i am and you don't know what research i have done or not.

I know they can be reconciled theoretically but since there is no solid proof that THIS reconcilation is at work in reality any definitive statement that the future is fully deterministic is faulty. which is what you are arguing.

 

[Bodhi]

Do you have a degree? If not, take your own advice. I'm not a scientist by any means but I will take credit for schooling you more than once on these subjects.

Did you not peep the article I dropped?? @zombie I'm not talking out of my ass.

 

[zombie]

Do you have a degree? If not, take your own advice. I'm not a scientist by any means but I will take credit for schooling you more than once on these subjects.

Did you not peep the article I dropped?? @zombie I'm not talking out of my ass.

I am not saying that you are talking out of your ass what you are saying has credibility the problem is in the conculsions that you are reaching from the information that you are reading. you have not schooled me on anything except your interpretation of what an unsure science says. There is no consensus and that the is problem with this level/kind of science.

this is why until science has come to a definitive answer that cannot be logically disproved it is best to leave questions about the possible open or closed future to philosophy and logic.

if you reduce the mind to electrons in the brain and if these electron are not deterministic in character then what does that say about the concept of freewill choices and the future.

 

[Rock_Well]

Oh yeah? You care to explain how you came to that conclusion or nah?

Because it's even backed up by the scientific community:

We have a deep intuition that the future is open until it becomes

present and that the past is fixed. As time flows, this structure

of fixed past, immediate present and open future gets carried

forward in time. This structure is built into our language,

thought and behavior. How we live our lives hangs on it.

Yet as natural as this way of thinking is, you will not find it

reflected in science. The equations of physics do not tell us which

events are occurring right now—they are like a map without the

“you are here” symbol. The present moment does not exist in

them, and therefore neither does the flow of time. Additionally,

Albert Einstein’s theories of relativity suggest not only that there

is no single special present but also that all moments are equally

real [see “That Mysterious Flow,” by Paul Davies; Scientific

American, September 2002]. Fundamentally, the future is no

more open than the past.

The gap between the scientific understanding of time and our

everyday understanding of time has troubled thinkers throughout

history. It has widened as physicists have gradually stripped time

of most of the attributes we commonly ascribe to it. Now the rift

between the time of physics and the time of experience is reaching

its logical conclusion, for many in theoretical physics have

come to believe that time fundamentally does not even exist.
http://elibrary.bsu.az/jurnallar/Scientific American_201006.pdf

the explanation strike me as something you would expect to find in a Sci FI movie. Time in thr truest sense is just the measurement of objects moving from one spot to another. This science fiction stuff just goes overboard into some other strange ish

 

[Bodhi]

Do you have a degree? If not, take your own advice. I'm not a scientist by any means but I will take credit for schooling you more than once on these subjects.

Did you not peep the article I dropped?? @zombie I'm not talking out of my ass.

I am not saying that you are talking out of your ass what you are saying has credibility the problem is in the conculsions that you are reaching from the information that you are reading. you have not schooled me on anything except your interpretation of what an unsure science says. There is no consensus and that the is problem with this level/kind of science.

this is why until science has come to a definitive answer that cannot be logically disproved it is best to leave questions about the possible open or closed future to philosophy and logic.

if you reduce the mind to electrons in the brain and if these electron are not deterministic in character then what does that say about the concept of freewill choices and the future.

At the fundamental level of existence, the universe is deterministic. Science has proven that the universe is made of bits of information. Much like a computer that uses binary codes, the universe works in like manner.

 

[Bodhi]

Oh yeah? You care to explain how you came to that conclusion or nah?

Because it's even backed up by the scientific community:

We have a deep intuition that the future is open until it becomes

present and that the past is fixed. As time flows, this structure

of fixed past, immediate present and open future gets carried

forward in time. This structure is built into our language,

thought and behavior. How we live our lives hangs on it.

Yet as natural as this way of thinking is, you will not find it

reflected in science. The equations of physics do not tell us which

events are occurring right now—they are like a map without the

“you are here” symbol. The present moment does not exist in

them, and therefore neither does the flow of time. Additionally,

Albert Einstein’s theories of relativity suggest not only that there

is no single special present but also that all moments are equally

real [see “That Mysterious Flow,” by Paul Davies; Scientific

American, September 2002]. Fundamentally, the future is no

more open than the past.

The gap between the scientific understanding of time and our

everyday understanding of time has troubled thinkers throughout

history. It has widened as physicists have gradually stripped time

of most of the attributes we commonly ascribe to it. Now the rift

between the time of physics and the time of experience is reaching

its logical conclusion, for many in theoretical physics have

come to believe that time fundamentally does not even exist.
http://elibrary.bsu.az/jurnallar/Scientific American_201006.pdf

the explanation strike me as something you would expect to find in a Sci FI movie. Time in thr truest sense is just the measurement of objects moving from one spot to another. This science fiction stuff just goes overboard into some other strange ish

So you're not basing your objection on anything other than how you personally feel about it? Ok. Well the god theory, IMHO, seems like something you would expect in a sci fi movie and all that biblical stuff just goes overboard into some other strange shit.

 

[Rock_Well]

Oh yeah? You care to explain how you came to that conclusion or nah?

Because it's even backed up by the scientific community:

We have a deep intuition that the future is open until it becomes

present and that the past is fixed. As time flows, this structure

of fixed past, immediate present and open future gets carried

forward in time. This structure is built into our language,

thought and behavior. How we live our lives hangs on it.

Yet as natural as this way of thinking is, you will not find it

reflected in science. The equations of physics do not tell us which

events are occurring right now—they are like a map without the

“you are here” symbol. The present moment does not exist in

them, and therefore neither does the flow of time. Additionally,

Albert Einstein’s theories of relativity suggest not only that there

is no single special present but also that all moments are equally

real [see “That Mysterious Flow,” by Paul Davies; Scientific

American, September 2002]. Fundamentally, the future is no

more open than the past.

The gap between the scientific understanding of time and our

everyday understanding of time has troubled thinkers throughout

history. It has widened as physicists have gradually stripped time

of most of the attributes we commonly ascribe to it. Now the rift

between the time of physics and the time of experience is reaching

its logical conclusion, for many in theoretical physics have

come to believe that time fundamentally does not even exist.
http://elibrary.bsu.az/jurnallar/Scientific American_201006.pdf

the explanation strike me as something you would expect to find in a Sci FI movie. Time in thr truest sense is just the measurement of objects moving from one spot to another. This science fiction stuff just goes overboard into some other strange ish

So you're not basing your objection on anything other than how you personally feel about it? Ok. Well the god theory, IMHO, seems like something you would expect in a sci fi movie and all that biblical stuff just goes overboard into some other strange shit.

fine have that view if that's what u rly want

but nah, it's not me basing it on my personal opinion. Truth is you've yet to show any proof that future and past exist along with the present. i'm not saying there's no evidence out there that u might use to build a case, but any evidence u have should be brought out in the open to be examined closely to see if credible...and all you've shown is a video. the video did not show any proof, just CGI animations and graphics. Plus it contradicts certain parts of God's word. If future already existed along with the present, then the numerous examples of God in the Bible making judgments based on conditional responses of people would be pointless. Why would God warn several people in the past regarding various scenarios that "IF they do ____, then ____ will happen? if the future already exists, and He is able to observe what they decided before they even decided it, why would warn them of the conditional outcome? The real nigga answer is: he wouldn't. So therefore, the future doesn't really 'exist'.

Just because what the guy is saying it sounds like it could be true doesn't mean that's proof that what he's saying IS true. Yall need to learn how to quit believing stuff just based on the fact u hear somebody say it. got proof? And if not, don't knock people who take religion seriously and try to follow the Bible or whatever religious text they believe.