So It Wasn't Ole Girl's Fault That Brock Turner Took That Ass When She Passed Out Drunk By Dumpster

[Westie]

And I'm not saying it's bad that we teach those things, we have to, because others refuse to be good human beings. But the underlying, meta message if you will, is she has some responsibility in what happens to her.

This can be said about everything and yet its almost exclusively argued in rape scenarios. Does anyone want to venture an answer to why?

I think that's backwards. With most things not crime related, we feel comfortable telling people they brought in on themselves. But when they are a victim it is quickly changed to 'its not your fault', 'you couldn't have stopped it' 'wrong place at the wrong time' and I think that happens that way because our compassion kicks in. Someone was hurt and they don't need more pain on top of that. Two, I think we all secretly know that they probably already are blaming themselves for what happened and really don't need someone else saying, mostly because its not even therapeutic to point it out.

It's not all about compassion. If someone breaks into a house and ends up getting bit by the dog and loses a testicle, he brought that on himself because he was not supposed to be there, it was illegal. If someone gets into an argument trying to keep a man from beating on a woman and in turn that man killed him you would say he was trying to do the right thing and he was in a bad situation. The other person is still at fault for killing him regardless of him minding his own business.

When a woman gets drunk passes out and a man sees an opportunity to have sex with a lifeless body the end result is that woman is violated. If that man had never come along or if he had and picked her up and removed her from the situation to where there were people who could see she was okay that's different. He decided to rape her. She put herself in a bad situation but without that man she would have just been a Drunk Bitch Who woke up in an alleyway. He is the whole reason she was raped. she didn't ask for that rape, she wasn't sitting there with a sign that says fuck my vagina fondle me. She was clearly inebriated and unaware of her surroundings. Regardless of it was stupid it happened. How does that take responsibility from the rapist?

 

[Westie]

And I'm not saying it's bad that we teach those things, we have to, because others refuse to be good human beings. But the underlying, meta message if you will, is she has some responsibility in what happens to her.

I disagree. You do not have responsibility for what someone else does ever. As human beings we should be able to control ourselves and anyone who can't is the problem.

My point was.. we are indirectly telling females that they ARE somewhat responsible for what happens to them when we teach them ways to protect themselves as if they DO have some control over what someone else does to them.

So the shame is ingrained is what you're saying? Do you feel like that's a right way to feel?

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

So it wasn't her fault. The dude pursued her after being turned down by her earlier that night.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/us/stanford-rape-case-court-documents/

Spoiler

The sentencing memo said that the victim's sister was "caught completely off guard" when Turner tried to kiss her the night of the assault. She alerted a friend after Turner grabbed her waist and later picked him out of a lineup as the "aggressive" man at the party.

Judge in Stanford rape case faces backlash

After being twice rejected by her sister, Turner went after the victim when she was "alone and inebriated."

Turner took the victim to a dimly lit, isolated area and sexually assaulted her behind a dumpster.

"This behavior is not typical assaultive behavior that you find on campus, but it is more akin to a predator who is searching for prey," the prosecutor wrote.

Another woman told investigators that Turner was "grabby" and "touchy," putting his hands on her waist, stomach and upper thighs when she danced with him at a fraternity party about a week before the sexual assault. The woman told police Turner made her uncomfortable.

It's going to be argued if there was a problem with him earlier and he was again at another party, she should have removed herself, to protect herself. When that should not be the case. If we loved each other, looked out for each other, if we really abhorred these kind of people, HE should have be removed. But since that doesn't happen, we cater to them, we afraid to stand up and individually condemn them before they even get the chance to something much worse.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Instead, we teach our kids how to avoid them the best they can.... let them get someone else, but watch your own ass.

 

[Westie]

So it wasn't her fault. The dude pursued her after being turned down by her earlier that night.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/us/stanford-rape-case-court-documents/

Spoiler

The sentencing memo said that the victim's sister was "caught completely off guard" when Turner tried to kiss her the night of the assault. She alerted a friend after Turner grabbed her waist and later picked him out of a lineup as the "aggressive" man at the party.

Judge in Stanford rape case faces backlash

After being twice rejected by her sister, Turner went after the victim when she was "alone and inebriated."

Turner took the victim to a dimly lit, isolated area and sexually assaulted her behind a dumpster.

"This behavior is not typical assaultive behavior that you find on campus, but it is more akin to a predator who is searching for prey," the prosecutor wrote.

Another woman told investigators that Turner was "grabby" and "touchy," putting his hands on her waist, stomach and upper thighs when she danced with him at a fraternity party about a week before the sexual assault. The woman told police Turner made her uncomfortable.

It's going to be argued if there was a problem with him earlier and he was again at another party, she should have removed herself, to protect herself. When that should not be the case. If we loved each other, looked out for each other, if we really abhorred these kind of people, HE should have be removed. But since that doesn't happen, we cater to them, we afraid to stand up and individually condemn them before they even get the chance to something much worse.

There are a plethora of creepy niggas in the club. If you left every single Club there was a creepy man who wanted to buy you a drink and you try to be polite and blow them off you would never ever ever go out.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Regardless of it was stupid it happened. How does that take responsibility from the rapist?

I don't think anywhere in anything I have posted thus far have I said the rapist isn't at fault for raping someone.

So the shame is ingrained is what you're saying? Do you feel like that's a right way to feel?

I don't understand how you got that from what I said.

 

[desertrain10]

I'm going to be very blunt with my daughter when she is off age.

The thing I don't get is... When given the chance some guys will rape. If you are passed out drunk, you just might be his target. Let's say he rapes you, he does 15 years in prison...

Do you still go to parties and gets passed out drunk?

No your entire life changes. Your normal sex life changes. You get scared to be around men and people in general a lot of shit happens after you get raped. Trust me this lesson you're trying to teach this woman she has already learned.

ETA some women do exhibit more promiscuous Behavior after being raped feeling that their body has no value because it was taken from them.

Exactly. What to do tell the next potential victim?

We're not saying that there was nothing that could have been done to prevent the crime. And there is nothing wrong we giving out practical advice

The problem is conversation about rape continues to center on how WOMEN can prevent it

You can encourage women to take self defense classes, dress modestly, and to drink responsibly, fine... but conversations about rape that are framed in those terms aren't especially helpful

Then rape is an act of violence, not a spontaneous act of passion. Most are planned in advance. Most convicted rapists were married or had regular sexual partners at the time of the assault. So men can control their sexual impulses

The rapist is the one with the power in the situation, the rapist is the one doing the raping. In Brock's situation, had the victim not been drinking, I believe he would've ended up in a similar situation

What we should be moving towards is a dialogue that encourages clear consent given and received and teaches men about coercive sex and rape, as those things are not widely discussed

We also don't do a good job of teaching men to respect women as equals, or teaching women that they are worthy of being so respected

Of course we can't totally eliminate all rapist and murderers from the earth, but we can curb violent crime

Not every country, community, culture struggle with these ills....why do you think that is?

 

[zzombie]

I'm going to be very blunt with my daughter when she is off age.

The thing I don't get is... When given the chance some guys will rape. If you are passed out drunk, you just might be his target. Let's say he rapes you, he does 15 years in prison...

Do you still go to parties and gets passed out drunk?

No your entire life changes. Your normal sex life changes. You get scared to be around men and people in general a lot of shit happens after you get raped. Trust me this lesson you're trying to teach this woman she has already learned.

ETA some women do exhibit more promiscuous Behavior after being raped feeling that their body has no value because it was taken from them.

Exactly. What to do tell the next potential victim?

We're not saying that there was nothing that could have been done to prevent the crime. And there is nothing wrong we giving out practical advice

The problem is conversation about rape continues to center on how WOMEN can prevent it

You can encourage women to take self defense classes, dress modestly, and to drink responsibly, fine... but conversations about rape that are framed in those terms aren't especially helpful

Then rape is an act of violence, not a spontaneous act of passion. Most are planned in advance. Most convicted rapists were married or had regular sexual partners at the time of the assault. So men can control their sexual impulses

The rapist is the one with the power in the situation, the rapist is the one doing the raping. In Brock's situation, had the victim not been drinking, I believe he would've ended up in a similar situation

What we should be moving towards is a dialogue that encourages clear consent given and received and teaches men about coercive sex and rape, as those things are not widely discussed

We also don't do a good job of teaching men to respect women as equals, or teaching women that they are worthy of being so respected

Of course we can't totally eliminate all rapist and murderers from the earth, but we can curb violent crime

Not every country, community, culture struggle with these ills....why do you think that is?

WE DON'T NEED YOU FUCKING FEMINIST TEACHING MEN ANY FUCKING THING YOU HAVE DONE ENOUGH DAMAGE AS IT IS. You cannot teach men not to rape in the first place BECAUSE men who want to rape will rape all you can do it try to reduce the amount of rape and that is largely but not totally the responsibility of the females but women hate responsibility it's one of the reason they get abortions and don't give a fuck about drinking themselves drunk or wear tight clothing in front of pussy thristy men. Women should be respected but you are NOT OUR equals. period.

the only "teaching" you fucking femininst do is brainwashing. GTFOH.

women should be respected but you are not equals. period.

 

[desertrain10]

Instead, we teach our kids how to avoid them the best they can.... let them get someone else, but watch your own ass.

As a society, is that the best we can do though?

 

[zzombie]

Instead, we teach our kids how to avoid them the best they can.... let them get someone else, but watch your own ass.

As a society, is that the best we can do though?

yes

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Instead, we teach our kids how to avoid them the best they can.... let them get someone else, but watch your own ass.

As a society, is that the best we can do though?

That is my frustration. It seems absurd that the way to deal with this issue is merely to keep teaching girls how to protect themselves. And I said earlier, I don't believe anyone over 15 in western society doesn't know that rape is illegal. So if they know, but apparently don't care, how do we fix this?

 

[not_osirus_jenkins]

My little one is gone for the summer with her grandparents but better believe when she gets back she will be in an mma class until she no longer wants to do it.

 

[desertrain10]

I'm going to be very blunt with my daughter when she is off age.

The thing I don't get is... When given the chance some guys will rape. If you are passed out drunk, you just might be his target. Let's say he rapes you, he does 15 years in prison...

Do you still go to parties and gets passed out drunk?

No your entire life changes. Your normal sex life changes. You get scared to be around men and people in general a lot of shit happens after you get raped. Trust me this lesson you're trying to teach this woman she has already learned.

ETA some women do exhibit more promiscuous Behavior after being raped feeling that their body has no value because it was taken from them.

Exactly. What to do tell the next potential victim?

We're not saying that there was nothing that could have been done to prevent the crime. And there is nothing wrong we giving out practical advice

The problem is conversation about rape continues to center on how WOMEN can prevent it

You can encourage women to take self defense classes, dress modestly, and to drink responsibly, fine... but conversations about rape that are framed in those terms aren't especially helpful

Then rape is an act of violence, not a spontaneous act of passion. Most are planned in advance. Most convicted rapists were married or had regular sexual partners at the time of the assault. So men can control their sexual impulses

The rapist is the one with the power in the situation, the rapist is the one doing the raping. In Brock's situation, had the victim not been drinking, I believe he would've ended up in a similar situation

What we should be moving towards is a dialogue that encourages clear consent given and received and teaches men about coercive sex and rape, as those things are not widely discussed

We also don't do a good job of teaching men to respect women as equals, or teaching women that they are worthy of being so respected

Of course we can't totally eliminate all rapist and murderers from the earth, but we can curb violent crime

Not every country, community, culture struggle with these ills....why do you think that is?

WE DON'T NEED YOU FUCKING FEMINIST TEACHING MEN ANY FUCKING THING YOU HAVE DONE ENOUGH DAMAGE AS IT IS. You cannot teach men not to rape in the first place BECAUSE men who want to rape will rape all you can do it try to reduce the amount of rape and that is largely but not totally the responsibility of the females but women hate responsibility it's one of the reason they get abortions and don't give a fuck about drinking themselves drunk or wear tight clothing in front of pussy thristy men. Women should be respected but you are NOT OUR equals. period.

the only "teaching" you fucking femininst do is brainwashing. GTFOH.

women should be respected but you are not equals. period.

Nigga

First off, most convicted rapists do not suffer from a mental illness, they were married or had regular sexual partners at the time of the assault

They aren't these thirsty, sex deprived savages who lack agency as you are suggesting

And again I understand that we cannot eliminate all rapist from the planet

That said, given how so many ppl, even those in this thread, hold opinion that rape was not rape unless there was a knife to a woman’s throat, we as a society have a lot to learn

So just as encouraging women to take the proper precautions is important, teaching boys and young men how to respect women as equals and about coercive sex and rape is important, and should take precedence in curbing the crime of rape

Otherwise, if boys are not taught to respect women as their equals ....they will view women as objects they have sovereignty over, which is obviously problematic

Especially when most studies sugget that rape is often an expression of power or dominance or as a punishment

 

[CottonCitySlim]

My little one is gone for the summer with her grandparents but better believe when she gets back she will be in an mma class until she no longer wants to do it.

i just started this with my lil girl, surprisingly 15 of the 24 of the class are girls fo the children's classes

in 2 years ill let her start learning striking

 

[blacktux]

Women are not equal to men.

They never will be.

And continuing to push that blatant lie while still expecting men to step in and protect you in a way that they wouldnt protect a man in the same situation is garbage.

 

[blacktux]

In no way shape or form are women held to the same standards men are when it comes to responsibility and accountability.

You just want the "power" men have, and thats garbage.

 

[not_osirus_jenkins]

My little one is gone for the summer with her grandparents but better believe when she gets back she will be in an mma class until she no longer wants to do it.

i just started this with my lil girl, surprisingly 15 of the 24 of the class are girls fo the children's classes

in 2 years ill let her start learning striking

If you don't min me asking how old is your daughter? They said I had to wait till my booba was 6 before she even went to the class.

 

[BiblicalAtheist]

Women are not equal to men.

They never will be.

And continuing to push that blatant lie while still expecting men to step in and protect you in a way that they wouldnt protect a man in the same situation is garbage.

We're equal in the sense we deserve the same amount of respect and regard.

 

[CeLLaR-DooR]

And I'm not saying it's bad that we teach those things, we have to, because others refuse to be good human beings. But the underlying, meta message if you will, is she has some responsibility in what happens to her.

I disagree. You do not have responsibility for what someone else does ever. As human beings we should be able to control ourselves and anyone who can't is the problem.

You can't have responsibility for what someone does but there are things you can do to lower the chances of becomin' a victim of crime. Things we all do everyday. Lockin' our doors, closin' windows, tellin' our kids to stay on our street when they're playin'.

Now I'm definitely now attributin' blame to the victim at all but if she wasn't raped and her Maa walked past or even one of these new day feminists they'd disapprove.

Again, nah she wasn't askin' to be raped but I can't see why it's so terrible to try and preach safety to women when they're out. .

 

[desertrain10]

Instead, we teach our kids how to avoid them the best they can.... let them get someone else, but watch your own ass.

As a society, is that the best we can do though?

That is my frustration. It seems absurd that the way to deal with this issue is merely to keep teaching girls how to protect themselves. And I said earlier, I don't believe anyone over 15 in western society doesn't know that rape is illegal. So if they know, but apparently don't care, how do we fix this?

The solution is going to be multifaceted

But i do believe it involve teaching our children what we mean by consent and how to truly respect one another

My niece, who is 16. said a girl at her school claimed she was raped by a classmate at a house party. She didn't believe her though because the girl is a flirt. Plus she didn't suffer from any visible bruising. And there was no one at the party that heard a struggle or any screams

It's OK to be suspicious and to question everything. But we really don't question the woman who says her purse was stolen. We aren't suspicious of the man who reports his car stolen. A man can report to have being raped by another man, but he wouldn't face the same scrutiny as a woman who says that she was raped by a man. When it comes to female/male rape, what is really fueling our suspicions?