Roland Martin vs. Dr. Umar Johnson

[5th Letter]

Because (once again) the school comment was used as a deflection tactic to discredit, so the logic is if y'all didn't donate then shut the fuck up. If things weren't being lost in translation this back and forth wouldn't be happening now. Also (once again sigh) no one is saying or implying that you have to only say nice things about Umar.

And (once again sigh) when dealing with things involving his degrees/certification etc you can challenge his credentials it's fair game, but don't do it to deflect from his points or argument. The entire interview in the OP is an example of credentials coming into question.

I don't really understand what you mean by the school comment being used as a deflection, but I'll fall back on that. The school idea is what I most care about from Umar, so I never see it as a deflection. To me it's the most interesting point. So I can acknowledge that maybe you saw a time where it was brought up inappropriately that I didn't take the same way as you.

And you keep on giving me the "No one is saying..." line. You don't have to say anything. If every time someone brings up a legitimate criticism, you dismiss it as a deflection, you are effectively acting like he can't be criticized. Not only that, but people have actually gotten pretty close to saying he shouldn't be criticized, maybe not you specifically, but there are some comments in here that aren't far from that. Maybe we're all talking past each other or seeing things differently, but I don't see all these incidents where people are bringing up criticisms when they aren't relevant the way you claim.

Case in point, you point out that his credentials came into question in the OP. That wasn't some kind of deflection though. Roland made it clear that he was starting things off by addressing issues that have been following Umar. It's not like they were on a specific topic and Roland brought up the credentials, school, and Frederick Douglas to deflect from that topic. The topic at hand initially was the controversy surrounding him. And again, I blame Umar for that controversy continuing as much as others. Whenever these questions come up, he just pays a lot of lip service. There are ways that he can definitively shoot down these accusations if they are false, however, he never does it. He always responds with diatribes and gets mad at people for not just taking his word for it.

What legitimate criticism have I dismissed? I've said (once again smh) when speaking on things where his degrees or certification is relevant it is fair to question and challenge his qualifications, you keep saying things that make me believe you're being purposely obtuse. In the OP the interview was an ambush it was setup by Roland and others on the panel that weren't feeling him and the purpose was to attack him. I've seen Roland interview other people with controversial issues around them and he threw them softball questions. Maybe Umar should just post a pic with his degrees but even then his detractors are just going to find something else to harp on about him anyway.

You can't that sentences while also saying you're not on the side of him being above reproach....people have addressed their specific issues with what he says becauae the degree issue isn't peoples only issue with Umar. Hell I did it in a post already...and was told that I was deflecting and that I should just support him solely because he's speaking up for black people.

If you have a specific problem with his message let's hear it. We both agree that he's not above reproach no need to beat that dead horse any longer. Go.

I already listed them...and they were said to be a deflection because he was speaking about real issues instead of actually being discussed

Are you talking about his comments about black empowerment or are your issues about degrees?

 

[blackgod813]

Nobody wana hear black power from a man married to a cracker woman the shit just dont sell

 

[JokerzWyld]

Has anyone in this argument actually disproven anything Dr. Umar has said about his credentials or background/descendancy?

The family of Frederick Douglas has released a statement saying he's not related to them. I made a thread about it some months back actually

I'm aware of the statement released by the family. My question is/was does anyone have proof that he is lying about his credentials or background? The statement itself nor twitter is a definitive source.

 

[jetlifebih]

Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

 

[NoCompetition]

There have been many instances of pointing out inconsistencies and errors in his message and how they dont work practically in the actual society we live in. Its been presented in this thread. Some people want to be marks and do your thing. Light has been shown and regardless how much some may not want to accept the clear truth (regardless how you feel about him flaws and untruths have been pointed out) once you are exposed to the truth it will have an effect. Other than that if you still wanna believe or follow this guy, then thats on you. Have a greatday at least you have been warned. At some point thats all people can do. Gotta play your part I guess.

 

[semi-auto-mato]

I have a question. Maybe one of your cats fluent in this dude can answer it.

Why did he choose the name Umar Johnson?

Umar...slightly African I guess, Arabic maybe.

Johnson? Hmmm I don't know any Africans with the surname Johnson.

Is there a origin story to this name?

this is a play on his relationship to Frederick douglass. douglass was born a bailey but changed his name to Johnson then when he went to new York there were a lot of people with the last name Johnson so he changed it to douglass. that is the only reason I can see for him changing his last name to Johnson. If someone here speaks Arabic they may know the meaning of umar.

 

[blackrain]

Because (once again) the school comment was used as a deflection tactic to discredit, so the logic is if y'all didn't donate then shut the fuck up. If things weren't being lost in translation this back and forth wouldn't be happening now. Also (once again sigh) no one is saying or implying that you have to only say nice things about Umar.

And (once again sigh) when dealing with things involving his degrees/certification etc you can challenge his credentials it's fair game, but don't do it to deflect from his points or argument. The entire interview in the OP is an example of credentials coming into question.

I don't really understand what you mean by the school comment being used as a deflection, but I'll fall back on that. The school idea is what I most care about from Umar, so I never see it as a deflection. To me it's the most interesting point. So I can acknowledge that maybe you saw a time where it was brought up inappropriately that I didn't take the same way as you.

And you keep on giving me the "No one is saying..." line. You don't have to say anything. If every time someone brings up a legitimate criticism, you dismiss it as a deflection, you are effectively acting like he can't be criticized. Not only that, but people have actually gotten pretty close to saying he shouldn't be criticized, maybe not you specifically, but there are some comments in here that aren't far from that. Maybe we're all talking past each other or seeing things differently, but I don't see all these incidents where people are bringing up criticisms when they aren't relevant the way you claim.

Case in point, you point out that his credentials came into question in the OP. That wasn't some kind of deflection though. Roland made it clear that he was starting things off by addressing issues that have been following Umar. It's not like they were on a specific topic and Roland brought up the credentials, school, and Frederick Douglas to deflect from that topic. The topic at hand initially was the controversy surrounding him. And again, I blame Umar for that controversy continuing as much as others. Whenever these questions come up, he just pays a lot of lip service. There are ways that he can definitively shoot down these accusations if they are false, however, he never does it. He always responds with diatribes and gets mad at people for not just taking his word for it.

What legitimate criticism have I dismissed? I've said (once again smh) when speaking on things where his degrees or certification is relevant it is fair to question and challenge his qualifications, you keep saying things that make me believe you're being purposely obtuse. In the OP the interview was an ambush it was setup by Roland and others on the panel that weren't feeling him and the purpose was to attack him. I've seen Roland interview other people with controversial issues around them and he threw them softball questions. Maybe Umar should just post a pic with his degrees but even then his detractors are just going to find something else to harp on about him anyway.

You can't that sentences while also saying you're not on the side of him being above reproach....people have addressed their specific issues with what he says becauae the degree issue isn't peoples only issue with Umar. Hell I did it in a post already...and was told that I was deflecting and that I should just support him solely because he's speaking up for black people.

If you have a specific problem with his message let's hear it. We both agree that he's not above reproach no need to beat that dead horse any longer. Go.

I already listed them...and they were said to be a deflection because he was speaking about real issues instead of actually being discussed

Are you talking about his comments about black empowerment or are your issues about degrees?

I listed issues with stuff he's said in general not just concerning his degrees

 

[blackrain]

Has anyone in this argument actually disproven anything Dr. Umar has said about his credentials or background/descendancy?

The family of Frederick Douglas has released a statement saying he's not related to them. I made a thread about it some months back actually

I'm aware of the statement released by the family. My question is/was does anyone have proof that he is lying about his credentials or background? The statement itself nor twitter is a definitive source.

People have looked into in the past and no proof has been found he has a PHD. That information is public. It doesnt even take real research. A goos Google search would bring it up and people have checked with the schools and looked online and nothing has been verified

 

[blackrain]

Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

 

[NoCompetition]

Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

People so confused they dont know the difference between an error laden impractical nonsensical message that feeds on emotion and bilks the most vulnerable, and the need for real messages that make sense in the world we live and can lead to real solutions. First off if its just simply not true, and/or goes no where thats a big red flag right there. Then if someone cant even be verified in this age of info, and others have come out to say who they say they are, isnt who they are, thats just another step in a noticible pattern. If the message leads to confusion and political impotency, how does that help? And who does it help?...so get these youtube clowns out of here and get the real in there. Cause some people cant distinguish entertainment and whats not real in this world from what is.

 

[jetlifebih]

Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

So in 2-3 sentences what are the issues...

Since it's been said plenty of times in 2-3 points...what are the issues that don't pertain to his credentials??

 

[jetlifebih]

Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

People so confused they dont know the difference between an error laden impractical nonsensical message that feeds on emotion and bilks the most vulnerable, and the need for real messages that make sense in the world we live and can lead to real solutions. First off if its just simply not true, and/or goes no where thats a big red flag right there. Then if someone cant even be verified in this age of info, and others have come out to say who they say they are, isnt who they are, thats just another step in a noticible pattern. If the message leads to confusion and political impotency, how does that help? And who does it help?...so get these youtube clowns out of here and get the real in there.

Real solutions and changes are impractical, nonsensical and sometimes error laden....

 

[NoCompetition]

Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

People so confused they dont know the difference between an error laden impractical nonsensical message that feeds on emotion and bilks the most vulnerable, and the need for real messages that make sense in the world we live and can lead to real solutions. First off if its just simply not true, and/or goes no where thats a big red flag right there. Then if someone cant even be verified in this age of info, and others have come out to say who they say they are, isnt who they are, thats just another step in a noticible pattern. If the message leads to confusion and political impotency, how does that help? And who does it help?...so get these youtube clowns out of here and get the real in there.

Real solutions and changes are impractical, nonsensical and sometimes error laden....

Hmmm interesting. We dont need people like this blatantly lying and misleading the most vulnerable for the easy buck, but there is also an element of the unknown to consider. At any rate My thing is its beyond these types. And basically in a whole other direction.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Because (once again) the school comment was used as a deflection tactic to discredit, so the logic is if y'all didn't donate then shut the fuck up. If things weren't being lost in translation this back and forth wouldn't be happening now. Also (once again sigh) no one is saying or implying that you have to only say nice things about Umar.

And (once again sigh) when dealing with things involving his degrees/certification etc you can challenge his credentials it's fair game, but don't do it to deflect from his points or argument. The entire interview in the OP is an example of credentials coming into question.

I don't really understand what you mean by the school comment being used as a deflection, but I'll fall back on that. The school idea is what I most care about from Umar, so I never see it as a deflection. To me it's the most interesting point. So I can acknowledge that maybe you saw a time where it was brought up inappropriately that I didn't take the same way as you.

And you keep on giving me the "No one is saying..." line. You don't have to say anything. If every time someone brings up a legitimate criticism, you dismiss it as a deflection, you are effectively acting like he can't be criticized. Not only that, but people have actually gotten pretty close to saying he shouldn't be criticized, maybe not you specifically, but there are some comments in here that aren't far from that. Maybe we're all talking past each other or seeing things differently, but I don't see all these incidents where people are bringing up criticisms when they aren't relevant the way you claim.

Case in point, you point out that his credentials came into question in the OP. That wasn't some kind of deflection though. Roland made it clear that he was starting things off by addressing issues that have been following Umar. It's not like they were on a specific topic and Roland brought up the credentials, school, and Frederick Douglas to deflect from that topic. The topic at hand initially was the controversy surrounding him. And again, I blame Umar for that controversy continuing as much as others. Whenever these questions come up, he just pays a lot of lip service. There are ways that he can definitively shoot down these accusations if they are false, however, he never does it. He always responds with diatribes and gets mad at people for not just taking his word for it.

What legitimate criticism have I dismissed? I've said (once again smh) when speaking on things where his degrees or certification is relevant it is fair to question and challenge his qualifications, you keep saying things that make me believe you're being purposely obtuse. In the OP the interview was an ambush it was setup by Roland and others on the panel that weren't feeling him and the purpose was to attack him. I've seen Roland interview other people with controversial issues around them and he threw them softball questions. Maybe Umar should just post a pic with his degrees but even then his detractors are just going to find something else to harp on about him anyway.

You keep on saying that people should keep certain criticisms or when they are relevant, but it seems based on the way this topic has gone that you and others on your side never seem to think they are relevant. I apologize if I missed an instance that you've noted, but I haven't seen these cases when people bring the criticisms up when they aren't relevant. That's why I say you continually dismiss the criticisms. Again, I agree 100% that criticisms should only be brought up when appropriate, but many people on your side (not necessarily you in particular) don't seem to ever think its appropriate and they've said things to that effect.

I don't watch Roland, so I can't really speak to his interviewing style, but I don't feel the initial part of the interview was an ambush. Roland just brought up the controversial issues that surround Umar. For the most part, he let Umar answer the questions and didn't really grill him too hard. Now, I agree with you that the rest of it seemed to be an ambush because I'm not sure why anyone would set up a 1 vs 3 debate. That's silly.

And if Umar posts his degrees and people bring up another petty thing to attack him on (e.g. the stripper incident), then you know for sure who are legit critics and who are just haters.

Let me give you an example (and I hope this clears up my point but it probably won't) if I were talking about Colin Kaepernick's social commentary and his philanthropy for various black causes and someone deflects into a but but he's a terrible quarterback how would that be relevant to the topic at hand? If we are talking about Umar's comments about black empowerment and someone deflects into his degrees how is it relevant? If we were discussing something that is pertaining to his degrees etc then it's fair game. If you have an issue with certain things Umar speaks about pertaining black empowerment then it's fair game to question it. Then have dialogue about his comments regarding black empowerment.

Roland interviewed Hillary and threw her softball questions and then danced for her, even though she had certain issues regarding her background that was being talked about at the time.

All of that is fair and your reasoning is and has been clear is where you think the deflection in this particular topic/thread took place. This topic is about the video in the OP, which covered the controversies and some of Umar's points in black empowerment. I don't see how addressing anything that was brought up in the video was a deflection. Did someone try to steer the conversation more towards other issues only to have it deflected? I'm asking because I don't know. I think I can't into the convo late.

 

[JokerzWyld]

Has anyone in this argument actually disproven anything Dr. Umar has said about his credentials or background/descendancy?

The family of Frederick Douglas has released a statement saying he's not related to them. I made a thread about it some months back actually

I'm aware of the statement released by the family. My question is/was does anyone have proof that he is lying about his credentials or background? The statement itself nor twitter is a definitive source.

People have looked into in the past and no proof has been found he has a PHD. That information is public. It doesnt even take real research. A goos Google search would bring it up and people have checked with the schools and looked online and nothing has been verified

Has anyone proved that he DOESN'T have a Ph.D? I've gone to PCOM's website multiple times and I've seen his dissertation. Who has proof that he DIDN'T complete the program?

 

[jetlifebih]

Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

People so confused they dont know the difference between an error laden impractical nonsensical message that feeds on emotion and bilks the most vulnerable, and the need for real messages that make sense in the world we live and can lead to real solutions. First off if its just simply not true, and/or goes no where thats a big red flag right there. Then if someone cant even be verified in this age of info, and others have come out to say who they say they are, isnt who they are, thats just another step in a noticible pattern. If the message leads to confusion and political impotency, how does that help? And who does it help?...so get these youtube clowns out of here and get the real in there.

Real solutions and changes are impractical, nonsensical and sometimes error laden....

Hmmm interesting. We dont need people like this blatantly lying and misleading the most vulnerable for the easy buck, but there is also an element of the unknown to consider. At any rate My thing is its beyond these types. And basically in a whole other direction.

Easy buck ?? Of course not...and I don't know if umar is after money....I don't give him none...but if he is...I will most definitely condem him as I do not agree in robbing the poor

But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get about 50-100 soldiers inside a Trojan horse headed into the heart of the enemy to make a difference in your condition....

I think in the next 50 years protest will turn into what you consider nonsensical and impractical ...and I believe then we will see more immediate results whether they be in our favor or not

And I don't mean violence necessarily ....imo the bus boycott was impractical and maybe nonsensical depending on your point of view but it yielded results pretty quickly

 

[jono]

Idk bro. If you tell me I don't have a degree, wouldn't I take a picture of the diploma to end the debate? Seems simple enough to me.

 

[semi-auto-mato]

the debate could be ended by anyone. the national clearinghouse charges 24.95 for degree verification. anyone can go and type in Jermaine shoemake aka umar r Abdullah Johnson and found out which schools he attended and degrees received and when received. he himself can show the paperwork. he enjoys this controversy and the folks arguing with him about it like it for the attention they get.

its good for ratings and popularity

 

[jetlifebih]

Why isn't there a screen shot or video of that website confirming or debunking???? If it's only 30 bucks???

Certainly the traffic from views would possibly compensate you for spending thirty dollars to find out if umar is legit or not....it's 2017 we know the website yet there are no videos or screen shots going viral??

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Why isn't there a screen shot or video of that website confirming or debunking???? If it's only 30 bucks???

Certainly the traffic from views would possibly compensate you for spending thirty dollars to find out if umar is legit or not....it's 2017 we know the website yet there are no videos or screen shots going viral??

You ask the same for Umar